giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 21, 2014 20:03:47 GMT -5
Hopefully the complaints of the parents will have some weight, especially if they continue to flow in. It's concerning that they are removing kids from your class - does the director think you have something to do with the complaints? I hope so. In all fairness, I did get some additional students, and I know recruiting is going on. And my schedule does work out a little better in the shift in students. I think it's a strong possibility that my director thinks it has to do with me. BUT, my director is also talking to the moms in English, and English isn't the first language for these folks. Usually, the family liaison helps with the translation, but the family liaison has been missing from the discussions. So, I think there's a good bit of misunderstanding about the situation. I know there's been other families unhappy with other things that have nothing to do with me. The family liaison was not welcome to be a part of those discussions, either. The family liaison was thrown under the bus, but the family was quick to recognize it. At one point, the family liaison was preparing to be fired... Normally I can deal with all of this stuff. I do question how much I think I know about working with the minority population. Am I sensitive enough to them? Am I too hard on them? Can I relate to them even though I did grow up having basic needs met? Do I act like a white person of privilege? Do I buy into the stereotypes of a have not? I try to keep up on how the school system is treating these kids and if what the system is doing is really effective at educating my kids. There are some kids that I would gladly take home with me, if I could. This last set of events really threw me for a loop. I'm thankful I have spot to vent and work things out. I can't do that at home with little tiny ears listening..
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Jan 22, 2014 7:22:46 GMT -5
And I'm going to assume she won't hire a teacher that feels it's appropriate to leave the building for a coffee run (for 15 minutes) while high schoolers are working with the students (ie, no adult supervision.) I'm going to assume that Chloe won't hire a teacher that thinks it's acceptable to start class 10 minutes late and gives the students a pass when the arrive at class 15-20 minutes after class has supposed to start. I would also expect that Chloe would not hire a teacher that complained in front of students and parents about how much they worked and how hard they have it, and, it's all just too much and they have to cut back. I would expect that Chloe would not hire a teacher that doesn't even notice which kids are missing from class that day, or doesn't care the kids are leaving class and not returning with absolutely no explanation. Would you please describe the assessment process that would identify this in a resume or during the interview? Because if there's some magic form of prescience that would be applied I suspect that only the most perfect candidates could be found. It's no different than any other hiring process. Until the individual has had the chance to actually be doing the job in the classroom, there's only the information that Chloe has during the interview process. She applies her knowledge, experience, understanding and makes a choice. Someone has to and not everyone will agree with it. In addition, she takes the responsibility of that. It's also possible that yours is one opinion. You made it seem as if these teachers had absolutely no qualities or qualifications for the job. I also suspect that you don't have all the information that might have been available to those who did the hiring. JMHO.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 22, 2014 9:01:56 GMT -5
I have a son. Since research says male teachers are most suitable for boys, should i demand a male teacher? Then how about the rest of the students? A black male may want a black male teacher, a white female wants a white female teacher, and so on. So when you base your decision on race or sex, you open up to all kinds of issues. Any hiring decision, not just teaching, should be based on job related qualifications, which do not include race, sex or age, at least in this country. Any other way is considered discrimination. I think that the problem comes in that unless ou segregate your school, females from males, whites from blacks and other races, you are just going to have to deal. A good teacher should be able to get through to ALL students, regardless of race or gender. There may come a time where the race/gender match up, but to attempt to hire for this ignoring proficiencies, is doing the students a disservice. While reading this thread, I have been looking back at those teachers who had the most impact upon my life. Funny thing, none of the 3 were either my gender or race (or both). All were male, one was black, and one this was his first teaching job. And even more funny, some of the worst teachers that I had were my gender/race. Now, statistically, I know that that is more likely as teachers were more likely to be white females in the 60s and 70s when I was in public schools.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 22, 2014 9:29:36 GMT -5
Just curious for those who may be in the know ( mmhmm?). When I used to volunteer in a nursing home the residents apparently had the right to demand only to be assisted by folks of the same gender and race as themselves if schedules would allow. I've always wondered how that held up under EEOC etc. In my experience, if you wanted to wait for the gender appropriate person to help you, you could. However, it could be a long time and if there were time restraints (like needing to get to the bathroom on time), waiting could wind up causing even more of a hassle. The 3 weeks I spent in rehab (which was a nursing home first), I quickly found out that the male nurses were more responsive, but the female helpers were more patient with me. I didn't turn down any help that arrived when I called, but there were some guys where my heart sunk when they showed up. For the first couple weeks, I was not allowed to either go to the bathroom or move to my chair without help. It took me a long time to move my legs out of bed, but I was supposed to do it myself. Men would get impatient and I would have to request that they back off and let me do it, they just needed to assist if I lost my balance.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 22, 2014 9:33:00 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 22, 2014 10:01:05 GMT -5
Are you sure you are reading the situation correctly? You laid out a couple of criteria that you used to determine the quality of these teachers. But, are there criteria you are overlooking, besides race, that make them decent teachers. I know where I work, there is never anyone who is 100% great at every single aspect of their job. So, I can complain that Joe is an asshole and treats people like dirt, unfortunately, I didn't have a great eyeball on the fact that he pushed through some very tough issues and resolved a lot of problems for the company.
I know I have a problem that I never think the person telling the story is telling the whole story. You admit that you don't have all the information. Is there some way that you could close your eyes, relax and try to think of something that is good about these teachers, or possibly something you really don't know about these teachers at all? Just because they are black doesn't necessarily mean that is their only redeeming quality. They must have something else going for them.
Is it possible the school wants to change teaching methods and these teachers are trying a new way? Meanwhile, you are caught in the turmoil of change and can't see the end goal?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 22, 2014 10:40:41 GMT -5
That a very good point and one that should be discussed with faculty so all are on board. I'm still not willing for my child to be a part of some new social experiment to the detriment of their education or their safety.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 22, 2014 10:55:39 GMT -5
I know I have a problem that I never think the person telling the story is telling the whole story. You admit that you don't have all the information. Is there some way that you could close your eyes, relax and try to think of something that is good about these teachers, or possibly something you really don't know about these teachers at all? Just because they are black doesn't necessarily mean that is their only redeeming quality. They must have something else going for them. I'm not too impressed from my interactions or product with Teacher #1. Teacher #2 does have some skills that I don't have, absolutely. However, these skills are not needed to teach beginners, which is what teacher #2 is will be doing. Teacher #2 will be teacher when I'm around so that I can help. The director is also changing schedules so that the director can more closely monitor teacher #1. I'm not posting more exact conversations, because it will be very clear about who I am if I do. I am unwilling to lose one of my safe places over this.. My organization has been around for almost 10 years now. In that time, we've gone through at least 10 teachers. Only the director and I have been with the organization for more than 3 years. The rest of the teachers average 1-3 years, max. Teachers are hired on reputation or whatever has been written on a resume, rather than being vetted thoroughly. I'd argue that a nearly 100% turnover rate points to some weakness in any organization... My director is truly an amazing person. My director is also mentor and a like a parental figure to me. I care about the kids as if they were my own, probably a little too much. When the kids and parents were complaining about teacher #1 to me, I defended the choices of #1 to my students. I also reminded them that each teacher does teach in a different way and no one way is more or less valid than the other. But, sometimes, ya know, when you see someone making what you perceive to be poor decisions, it kinda gets on you. I'm going to step out of this now..I need to get on with other work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 11:12:36 GMT -5
Normally I can deal with all of this stuff. I do question how much I think I know about working with the minority population.
I think you said that many of the kids you work with are poor. I may have been poor when my children were very young and I didn't realize it, but I'll give you my personal perspective as a minority parent anyway.
Am I sensitive enough to them? Am I too hard on them?
I'm not sure about "sensitive". I just wanted my children's teachers to at least like kids and care about them. But not coddle them. Being hard on them...... I didn't want the teachers cutting my children any slack when they believed they could do better academically. Our lives weren't always rosy, but not bad to the point that it interfered with them having the resources and abilities to do their schoolwork. If they didn't earn anything better than an F, give them the F.
Can I relate to them even though I did grow up having basic needs met? Do I act like a white person of privilege? Do I buy into the stereotypes of a have not?
My children always had their basic needs met, so I can't really comment on that. I'm trying to figure out exactly what you mean by acting like a white person of privilege because I don't want to misconstrue your words. When my children had teachers that rubbed them the wrong way for whatever reason, but they were good teachers, I told my children "she has her education and place in the world. It doesn't matter if you don't like her. Learn everything you can from her, so you can get yours".
Only you can answer about the stereotypes of course. I think we all have them to a certain extent about something or another. As long as you're honest with yourself so that your work isn't affected, it's ok. My DD had a high school teacher tell her class that she couldn't believe Britney Spears got pregnant, black teenagers do that, white ones don't. How's that for a stereotype? She showed her class how ignorant she was and they lost respect for her.
I try to keep up on how the school system is treating these kids and if what the system is doing is really effective at educating my kids. There are some kids that I would gladly take home with me, if I could.
It sounds like you care about your students and you care about being a good teacher. I admire that, working with children would likely drive me mad. As far as the big things go, you're only one person and you can only do so much. You don't run the place and you don't make the decisions. If you determine things are headed in a direction that you don't want to be a part of, you'll have to decide if it's time for you to either fight it or get out.
As far as minorities teaching minorities, I didn't care what race or ethnicity my children's teachers were. I just wanted them to have the knowledge and skills to be able to teach. Maybe it was never on my radar because over the years, they had a mix anyway. I did fervently hope that my son never got a little old lady teacher after he had one in 2nd or 3rd grade though. He was very active and drove her crazy. She, in turn, drove me crazy the whole year. One day I'd been sitting in his class and after their reading group she rushed over to me asking "Did you see what he was doing?" He was sitting still in his seat but fidgeting with his pencil (not making any sound), and he was paying attention. Really lady? I can't stop him from fidgeting, adults do that!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 22, 2014 12:14:10 GMT -5
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 24, 2014 11:42:16 GMT -5
Is the director aware that the classroom was left unattended? That seems like write-up and performance plan territory to me . . . Not sure. I know our family liaison HAS told the director about the parents' concerns of children's safety. I also know that one of the families I work with went to the director concerned about how the other teacher was teaching their kids. I'm no longer teaching that family. The director has removed the children from my class and now teaches them one on one. The other teacher that leaves the classroom still has access to the kids. The director omitted things in the explanation of why, so I know the director is not being completely honest with me. I don't think I did anything wrong...as I recently saw the mom and she greeted me with open arms, literally. And, this particular mom has sat in my class and watched her kids for the past semester and has never raised any concerns to me other than her concerns about the other teacher. It's very clear that the director favors this teacher. My only recourse, really would be to go to the board. I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish though. I sat on a board meeting, and frankly, I was super disappointed. Most of the other teachers last a year or two, max. I've been there over 5 now. I'll just keep my head down and wait it out.. My DD told me recently that one of her teachers is Diabetic. She has to test her blood sugar? within something like 30 minutes of eating. She said the teacher tests her blood in DD's class b/c the kids in that class run the school store so there is usally only a few kids in the room at a time. Pretty sure DD said she could not leave the classroom unattended - but the kids are selected to be in the class/have a closer relationship with the teacher. I could see that testing blood sugar of taking insulin would be a protected thing- but really the school should be providing an aide or something if this is the case. I am going to defend Zib. Her views on the teaching profession are based on what she experienced as a teacher. Education in the US is in a flux and all is not equal. I to have worked with highly qualified minorities. One has to wonder if the only minority available is vastly inferior, was the person that did the hiring wanting the minority to fail so they could break the system?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 13:53:15 GMT -5
Bean, doesn't testing your blood sugar consist of pricking your finger with a little machine? I hardly think it is traumatizing to watch. Now if the teacher has to give herself a shot of insulin, then she needs to call the office to get someone to watch her class for a moment. But that shouldn't be an everyday occasion. If your DD's school is like most schools, aides aren't that readily available. They have assigned duties. I'm not even sure that legally they can be left alone with the students. I know even in the library, there must be a certified teacher. I have filled in for the librarians so that they could attend a meeting.
No, the teacher can't leave her class unsupervised for even a second, or she has opened herself up to a lawsuit if something happens.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 24, 2014 14:22:23 GMT -5
Bean, doesn't testing your blood sugar consist of pricking your finger with a little machine? I hardly think it is traumatizing to watch. Now if the teacher has to give herself a shot of insulin, then she needs to call the office to get someone to watch her class for a moment. But that shouldn't be an everyday occasion. If your DD's school is like most schools, aides aren't that readily available. They have assigned duties. I'm not even sure that legally they can be left alone with the students. I know even in the library, there must be a certified teacher. I have filled in for the librarians so that they could attend a meeting. No, the teacher can't leave her class unsupervised for even a second, or she has opened herself up to a lawsuit if something happens. SS, I could not remember if DD said the teacher ever took insulin shots in front of the class. I was however thinking along the lines that being diabetic may be a protected disability and therefore the school may be obligated to provide resources to the teacher to preserve her privacy. DD's teacher is managing by controlling who she exposes to her disability. It just seemed strange to me that the administrator involved did not seem particularity concerend, therefore, I was looking for why this may be the case - maybe he/she is in a cya situation.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 30, 2014 12:11:14 GMT -5
I just wanted to update you all..
So, I met teacher #2. Not a minority. Still a boy. Still a complete newbie. As in, never observed our director and is going off a very smallish repertoire book that contains like a tenth of a hundredth of the things he should know. And is teaching classes by himself.
Director has also mentioned to the family liaison that I should help him (This was not mentioned to me.) So, I've cleared 15 minutes in my schedule to observe his class and help. I'm also going to try to provide him with pedagogy materials that I've squirreled away (originally given to me by the director.)
There was a performance that teacher #1 had, by herself (ie, the director was not around to supervise.) Family Liaison was not invited to attend the concert and direct traffic. Instead, she stayed in the teaching studio with me. It will be interesting to hear how the concert went. The family liaison was getting calls from kids either cancelling at the 11th hour or from kids wanting to know where to go and which teacher to look for. We are hoping things went well, because the performance was an important one. However, I suspect that it isn't the case...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 30, 2014 13:19:48 GMT -5
In any job there arw things you can control and things you can't. There may be a time to stand up for yourself and a time to just keep your nose to the grindstone. And when you do stand up it may be uncomfortable or you may risk your job. Only u can decide what that point is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 8:48:00 GMT -5
I have a son. Since research says male teachers are most suitable for boys, should i demand a male teacher? Then how about the rest of the students? A black male may want a black male teacher, a white female wants a white female teacher, and so on. So when you base your decision on race or sex, you open up to all kinds of issues. Any hiring decision, not just teaching, should be based on job related qualifications, which do not include race, sex or age, at least in this country. Any other way is considered discrimination. I think that the problem comes in that unless ou segregate your school, females from males, whites from blacks and other races, you are just going to have to deal. A good teacher should be able to get through to ALL students, regardless of race or gender. There may come a time where the race/gender match up, but to attempt to hire for this ignoring proficiencies, is doing the students a disservice. While reading this thread, I have been looking back at those teachers who had the most impact upon my life. Funny thing, none of the 3 were either my gender or race (or both). All were male, one was black, and one this was his first teaching job. And even more funny, some of the worst teachers that I had were my gender/race. Now, statistically, I know that that is more likely as teachers were more likely to be white females in the 60s and 70s when I was in public schools. Having diversity, in our teaching staff is beneficial for everyone. I've had male teachers and minority teachers, they did not harm me. If I never had someone like myself in authority (aka as a possible mentor) it could. So, what is wrong with trying to look for that in our staff as long as the two candidates are about equal?
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