shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Dec 6, 2013 11:25:19 GMT -5
deantrip - we hit 50 below once or twice when I was a kid. My brother did K-12 there, and in that entire time, the schools only closed once, and that was because the governor declared a state of emergency and closed all the schools in the state, saying we couldn't afford to heat them. We got a 4 day weekend that day. The only other time I missed school due to weather was a first weekend in May snowstorm that dropped 2-3' of snow over night, with drifts over 4'. We tried to let our Vizsla out and she had to jump from the house into the snow bank, but then, the snow was so wet, she didn't even sink to the bottom. She was suspended until my dad came and lifted her out. Then my brother and I had to go out ourselves and shovel a path for the dog. My father was the only parent I remember making it out of the neighborhood that day and none of us kids went to school.
But weather (and greenery) is the reason I live in WA now. I've been in eastern MT and northern NV, and I just love the narrower range of temps in the PNW. Sure it's cold today, but this cold is going to last a week, not 6 months.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 6, 2013 11:30:35 GMT -5
I forgot how prolific everyone was! You guys are awesome. I feel very loved. I promise to respond in depth either tonight or this weekend.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 6, 2013 11:52:03 GMT -5
Firebird This will sound like a weird one from me but I have a couple of friends who have moved here and I think it fits all your criteria. Ogden, Utah. Good to have you back!
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 6, 2013 13:33:19 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread - so apologies if these were already mentioned: Spokane, WA. Eugene, OR. Maybe the Tri-Cities, WA? I like Oregon, but it's nice to live without income tax in WA. Spokane: We camped in Spokane one night last summer on the way to Yellowstone. It's a great little city. And I agree - OR income tax sucks balls.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 6, 2013 17:35:16 GMT -5
Along with their property taxes. But if you're a greenie and a liberal, you will fit right in.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Dec 6, 2013 19:36:21 GMT -5
Yes she is! (CarolinaKat too!) Bloomington is a nice city. Since you're on Facebook you know where I live - I can vouch for it too. At least come out and visit before you make your final decision
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Dec 6, 2013 20:14:42 GMT -5
I have no suggestions but I just want to say hi Firebird!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Dec 6, 2013 21:12:08 GMT -5
isn't it pretty conservative in the midwest? I think it might be a little too much so for us to fit in there. But, who knows?
I don't think Minnesota is that conservative, its a democratic state anyhow, but I've been here my whole life, so I don't have a lot to compare to, but hey, we just approved gay marriage and decriminalized marijuana use a while back. Minnesota is like only state that voted for Mondale for pete's sake. We almost always go Democrat in our electoral votes. Plus like MPL says- we allow Gay Marriage. I'm an extremely outspoken person and they haven't run me out of the state yet. Everyone knows I'm a tree hugging, reformed vegetarian, equal rights supporting Atheist and they are cool with it. Even my Catholic dad voted for Same Sex Marriages to be legal in Minnesota. that's pretty recent, though.....I play ice hockey with a married couple that moved here FROM Minnesota almost a decade ago because this was the only place they *could* get married. Firebird, I wish I had some tips for ya, but I'm in a HCOLA on the East Coast. somehow I don't think you'd value my opinion.
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travelnut11
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Post by travelnut11 on Dec 6, 2013 21:23:17 GMT -5
I feel compelled to defend the Madison area a bit. Everyone around here moans and groans about the housing prices but if you're coming from the Bay area and/or Seattle you're going to feel like the houses are practically free. True, the property taxes are high. But if you barely get outside of the city of Madison things are way cheaper. Madison is about as liberal as it gets...like Berkeley-level liberalism so if that's your leaning you'll fit right in. Still, for your criteria I might pick La Crosse if I was coming to WI. It's a liberalish place due to the university, is in a beautiful setting and is smack dab between the Twin Cities and Madison. My fiancee is from there and I always enjoy when we go visit. I ogle at housing prices in La Crosse because they're so cheap compared to Madison (though taxes are higher on a percentage basis) but wages are comparably lower too. But if you're consulting with a California-based salary then you'll be fine (which is my situation as well). I also feel compelled to caution you about Montana. Geographically it seems like a logical choice given your proclivities towards the Northwest but Montana is extremely, extremely conservative and they REALLY DO NOT like outsiders. And in particular, they hate Californians so beware. Bozeman might be OK and maybe Missoula but I would advise you to try out MT before committing. I lived in the Forsyth/Hysham area until I was 8, my parents are both from north central MT where most of my aunts/uncles and grandma still live and my mom lives in western MT. It's a beautiful place but when I leave after a visit I am so happy to get back to civilization. I've heard good things about Idaho though which might be a good compromise. Same area of the country but perhaps a bit more enlightened.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Dec 6, 2013 21:28:17 GMT -5
ID is NOT less conservative than MT. It has the largest Mormon population outside of UT and they tend to be more conservative than the Mormons in UT.
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Jake 48
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Post by Jake 48 on Dec 6, 2013 21:34:19 GMT -5
Firebird, for whats its worth, DW has been working in Kalamazoo, MI (Texas township)for almost a year and a half. She likes the job, people, costs. We went so far as to buy a condo rather than paying rent for an apartment. DW has 4 seasons, gets snow, ( they do a good job of removing it), she is able to ride her bicycle to work in the good weather, kayaks and took up running. My only gripe is airline service to K-zoo, there are no direct flight for me from Boston, so it is a pia. glad to have you back, good luck with your search
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 6, 2013 23:17:13 GMT -5
Try Grand Rapids. Not that far from kazoo.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 7, 2013 20:40:30 GMT -5
I'm near Eugene, Oregon! Plus, we don't have sales tax!
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Dec 7, 2013 21:30:23 GMT -5
Yay firebird is back!
No suggestions. I don't think Denver fits many if your criteria, but good luck!
Sent from my Droid using proboards
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 8, 2013 19:16:52 GMT -5
Moved from the Denver/Boulder area. While the weather is great there, the area is expensive.
As to this question:
isn't it pretty conservative in the midwest? I think it might be a little too much so for us to fit in there. But, who knows?
I live in Iowa now. Obama won here in both 2008 and 2012. We have a crazy Red Governor. The western part of the state is red as they come and I would not leave in that part of the state. Real estate taxes here are higher proportionately than in Colorado, but Iowa has better public schools. Have a gay cousin living in Milwaukee and he can't wait to get out of there due to high real estate taxes and a certain governor.
Same sex marriage became legal in Iowa in 2009, the third state to do so. I'd say we're pretty liberal there. It has cost some Supreme Court justices their jobs as it was a Supreme Court ruling that made it legal here.
I could live in Des Moines, Ames, Iowa City/Cedar Rapids or even Cedar Falls/Waterloo. Those are not the parts of Iowa I live in and sometimes I think I chose poorly.
We have lots of wineries here on the mighty Mississippi.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 10, 2013 8:53:51 GMT -5
So by "sometime this week/end," I clearly meant "Tuesday morning." Someone REALLY should have mentioned that little babies are quite the time suck Anyway, I'll do my best to respond to everything but feel free to ask again if I miss something.
1) Look for university towns - likely to be employment opportunities across a range of industries, often small. Universities often draw cultural stuff to them - decent food, decent concerts, etc.
Pants, I'm a bit surprised at this - although I've only lived in one small college town (Flagstaff, AZ) it seemed like most of the job opportunities there were connected to the university. I had a hell of a time finding a job to support myself when I went back there for school in 2009 - I ended up working at a truck stop McD's 15 miles up the road.
2) Limiting yourself to PNW actually really limits the potential to find what you want - not that there aren't places out there, but there are more in the middle of the country and the east coast. Lots of big companies have bases in the middle of the country, and towns there support the company and build communities.
We're hoping that DH can get a transfer to our preferred area (once we figure out where the hell that might be). He works for a pretty big company that was actually bought out yesterday. Assuming he doesn't get laid off, he'll have a lot more options in terms of where we move due to the buyout.
3) How small are you talking? Small city? Large town? Very small town?
I'd say anywhere from very small to medium would be worth considering. Very small would be my preference, but probably unrealistic. Medium could be good if it was a nice community.
Stability is key, regardless.
Like anywhere else it depends on how small exactly you want to go. In Des Moines it's not like you'll be run out of town for your views, it's a large city with lots of people. Move to Mineola where if you blink you find yourself already out of town then you might find it harder to fit in since it's such a small and not very diverse community.
This is more of a concern for my mom than anyone else, and personally I think she's overestimating how social we'll be in the new place. But maybe not. I just wouldn't want it to be super conservative/religious to the point where Babybird is considered weird or heathen if she chooses not to attend church.
(My parents are Catholic, so a religious community isn't necessarily a problem and could even be great for us - their current parish is awesome, very welcoming and nonjudgmental - but that's the kind of thing that varies a lot and we just have to find the right fit. Obviously, we also need to be near a good church that they like but that shouldn't be too hard.)
During your working years, a HCOL area is better. As an example, say that all things cost 50% more and wages are 50% higher (a loose assumption). So your income/expenses ratios are about the same as for a LCOL. Two exceptions - #1 - car costs are based on national prices, not regional. So a new car costs only 2/3 as much in a HCOL area. #2 - your family wealth - 401k, IRA, savings - is 50% more in the HCOL area.
phil5185! How the heck are ya? I was just quoting you the other night during a discussion with my folks.
You're quite correct, a HCOL area is best for maximixing income and that was the impetus for DH and I moving to this area when we got together. Back in 2009 I was finishing college in Arizona and he was living in Washington. We agreed that it would make the most sense to move to the Bay Area where we could maximize our combined earning power before moving where we really wanted to go.
So far, it's more or less worked out - despite spending problems and a few setbacks, our net worth is positive and climbing. Together we make ~$143k base ($83k for me, $60k for DH) and there's no way in hell we'll make anything close to that in our new area. We realize that.
But the trade-off in living costs is pretty substantial, especially if we do resource sharing with my parents. I mean, we pay $1,550 in rent for a 2br/1br, 900 sf condo. It works fine for our purposes now, but it's seriously limiting. My dad wants a garage to work on his bikes, I'd like a couple more bedrooms for an eventual second kid and guests, DH and my mom want a veggie garden, the list goes on and on.
Plus we just don't like this area. I know, I know - Sum Dum Gai thinks we're insane and most other people do too, but it is what it is.
We should save a lot this year in the non-retirement sense, and quite honestly I think we'll come out way ahead in a LCOLA even with a huge paycut. Especially since we are nearly debt free.
More responses coming up...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 10, 2013 9:10:28 GMT -5
Small Town: My town has around 60,000 people but within 15 miles of us are a dozen small towns with less than 2,000 people. We are a fast 65 mph 4 lane drive from the Twin Cities (can be at the Mall of America in about an hour) sheilaincali, maybe this is a good time to mention my position on future commutes. You guys might remember that back in May I was all excited to start my new job ten minutes from my house. Unfortunately, that job didn't work for me and I swapped it for another position in SF. Fortunately, we have an office in Pleasanton that I get to work in one day per week and I can also work from home if necessary, so it's not all bad. However, I'm reallyreallyreallyreally done commuting. Don't tell my DH but sometimes I enjoy it (guaranteed reading time) but at the end of the day, I'm a mom now and it is just not the best use of my time, especially as Babybird gets older. So one thing about our location - we need to live somewhere I can work really close to where I live. Basic plan is to figure out where we want to live, have DH put in a transfer to that area, find a place to live near his office, and then find ME a job near THAT. But this is actually our reason for ruling out Port Orchard/Kitsap (more on this in a minute) - I can't reasonably commute to Seattle from there. I'm hoping that I can continue contracting and work remotely from wherever - that'd be ideal, but I also need to be somewhere I could find a job that doesn't require 100+ mile daily commute in a pinch. No guarantees, and all that. Major Upside- Hello- I live here and I'm freaking awesome.
That IS a major upside! And I totally don't think the Boy is too old for Babybird... just sayin.... I would not mind being related to you. Anyway, Minnesota sounds interesting. Will have to ponder. I was going to say the same. There's tons of places in both OR and WA that would fit the bill. Bend area might be nice, but a bit more isolated career-wise. Portland is a good choice, smaller than Seattle and it has lots of nearby rural areas. Rocky Mtn Saver and Gardening Grandma, I kind of see us ending up in Oregon or Washington if we can find a low enough COLA (sounds like we can). The proximity to family would be nice (I'm hoping if we get a nice big house our DNs can spend some time with us during summer and school breaks every year, which would be a decent alternative to regular visits because we live in the same town). Also, I'm not sure shanendoah will let me move somewhere besides Washington minnesotapaintlady, I like your description of the Mississippi River Valley area. We'll have to give that some thought. I'd also look into NW Nevada (greater Reno area) and Northern AZ (Flagstaff). These higher elevation areas are dramatically different landscapes than the Las Vegas or Phoenix stereotypes.Bonny, you're making me a little uncomfortable with your apparent clairvoyance of where I've lived in the past! I grew up in Reno/Carson City and I went to college at NAU Both great suggestions but unfortunately, both places I'm/we're not interested in living again, especially Flagstaff. I have horrible memories of the time I spent there. However, you have good instincts because they could both be great if we hadn't BTDT. I think the driver in your decision is going to be employment. And as wonderful as the internet is, as a consultant you're most likely going need to get your butt on a plane every month or so. Therefore I would recommend that you be within 90 minutes of a major metropolitan airport.This is also a great point.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 10, 2013 9:26:24 GMT -5
Re my friend (who lives with her son & family) - they live in basically a 2 family house. Entire living quarters downstairs and upstairs. Only the kitchen and dining are not duplicated. Right now, they are renting, but the son is looking for a house to buy where both families can have privacy and personal space... This experiment is into year 2 now. It appears to be working because there is a win-win for both families. I think the 5 yr/old is the biggest winner. She will have a very special bond with her grandmother. Gardening Grandma, you're a grandma so you obviously get this. Very few parts of being a mom have been anything like I thought they would be, but seeing Babybird and my mom together is amazing and I am grateful for it every day. She was and is such a great mother to me, and I love that she's getting a chance to have that bond with my daughter as well. (I only hope Babybird likes me as much because it's stiff competition!! ) I'm in the Northeast and it seems like in-law apartments are getting more common up here. Something like a colonial for the main family and then a two story addition on one side where there is a small living area and kitchen on the first level and two bedrooms upstairs.It seems to be getting more common. As far as living space is concerned, my parents are fine with what they have now or maybe a little bit more (as long as they have access to a garage and preferably some land, as I mentioned). So an in-law suite, finished basement apartment, or small guest cottage would work beautifully for our purposes. My salary, bonus, and 401K contribution is about $80k a year. I would make about $100k to $120k in the highest cost of living areas. My mortgage for a new 3/2 house (well it was new 7 years ago when we built it) on 10 acres was $180k. I would never be able to duplicate the 10 acres in one of those HCOLA. In suburbia here in town, my house would be about $120k. Daycare here runs about $500 a month (assuming we need it - just preschool is $280). It would be $1500 a month minimum in a place where I would get that "double" salary. Utilities are also cheap here. Bonus is that my commute is 20 minutes all day every day. Maybe twice a year there is an accident on the freeway or the snow is bad enough. Other than the times my car broke down, my longest commute ever was 40 minutes. I'm still in the county with the City and that gives me access to an amazing library system. It has great parks. muttleynfelix, I think you nailed it. This is pretty much what we're going for with the new place - even though I wouldn't dream of making $80k in a LCOLA, I wouldn't think $40-50k would be out of the question (particularly if I'm still consulting and billing at big city rates - hey, a girl can dream). And that is plenty in many areas of the country. Frankly, one of my huge motivations for moving to a LCOLA is to live a more modest lifestyle. I hate the fact that I feel so squeezed out here. I really want us to have more breathing room, more time at home, and more focus on the important stuff. I cannot fathom how people pay $500k here for two bedroom houses that don't even look very nice. No thanks. come on, Firebird - you know you want to move to NJ and pay too much for everything! COME ONNNN!!!!!
@moneyjenny82, HA! Actually, I'd love to live on the East Coast again. I looooooooved living in PA, and there were some gorgeous areas in Maine and Massachusetts too. Unfortunately, the other 3/4 of the decision makers disagree with me Now, I couldn't live in the South. Far too conservative for me. But, I've also formed my biases through a very small amount of folks. (My BFF married a man who literally believed women belonged barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen to serve her man. He was planning to raise their daughter with these notions. She also told me people were very much into only teaching creationism in the schools)..When we went to the south a few times, I witnessed things that just made me cringe..
No way in hell are we living anywhere near the South, we all agree on that much (no offense to you Southerners). Yup! Mid is awesome. She can vouch that I am awesome. Bloomington, Indiana it is! Welcome to Indiana, Firebird! midjd and Pants, I don't require anyone to validate your awesomeness I'm just not sure "because some of the coolest people on my message board live there" is going to be a huge sell to my family. I too recommend the Springfield, MO area. You can get nice homes cheap around here and Springfield is large enough to find jobs. Not as many job options as Kansas City though. We bought a 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage on a crawl space brand new for $88K in a town of 2000 30 minutes SW of Springfield. It is a nice drive into Springfield. You can find homes on 3-5 acres pretty cheap too. And you would always have the entertainment of Branson nearby. It's definitely sounding like Missouri would be a good spot for us to consider. Thanks, kcladyjane (and others).
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 10, 2013 9:36:07 GMT -5
I've moved the thread as requested, Firebird! So glad to hear from you and know you and those you love are doing well! I don't have any suggestions for you as I'm not much aware of COL in the PNW. There are places in western North Carolina that are marvelous, but that's not anywhere near Washington! Thanks anyway, mmhmm! And thanks for moving the thread. Good to hear from you!! t-dog, thanks for the great link! I'm sending that to everyone. I'm also going to try to summarize the thread... everyone's given great feedback. I would describe Eastern Washington as more Libertarian than Republican. Spokane has areas around it that may fit with what you are thinking (i.e. Deer Park, Davenport, Liberty Lake). The Tri-Cities are nice too. Yakima, Grand Coulee, Ellensburg, Wenatchee are all nice too. But I agree with whoever mentioned that these areas can get hot in the summer and still have snow in the winter. engineerdoe, Eastern Washington is definitely an area we're considering. An island near seattle with ferry ride to the city. Bainbridge or Vashion but Clinton might work too. Commute cost would be high but don't bring a car to the city or just keep one at work. Then walk on ferry, bike to ferry at home, take city bus to work and back to ferry or van pool.cronewitch / kittensaver, initially this was our plan. But taking the probable commute into consideration, it's not a good fit for us. The kind of commute you're describing is WAY worse than my already-not-fun current commute and I seriously could not do it on a long term basis. We visit Seattle regularly - getting around in that city is such a PITA, even more so than in SF. That realization is what pretty much killed our plan to move to Port Orchard, and it's a pity. We still own land there where DH's mom used to live - we had to tear down her property after she died so it's a blank slate now and the obvious solution is "build your own house there." The property is big enough, in a GORGEOUS location, and quite close to the family and friends we love so much. But I just couldn't deal with commuting to Seattle from there if I had to do so, and I probably would have to do so. Close enough to hang out with Carolinakat too!CarolinaKat, good to see you! How's married life treating you? Hey Firebird, I would like to give props for montana, I live in Northern montana, and while winters can be brutal (today we had a high of -8), the rest of the time it is one of the most beautiful places to be. Small communities where you can get to know someone easily and never have to worry about locking your car/door is very nice. If you got any questions feel free to ask me or shoot me a pm.deantrip, I might just do that. Where do you live exactly? (If you don't want to say on the thread, you can PM me.)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 10, 2013 9:36:39 GMT -5
I just wouldn't want it to be super conservative/religious to the point where Babybird is considered weird or heathen if she chooses not to attend church
Well I can say I've never attended church in my life and haven't been run out of town with pitchforks and torches. We're not all backwards conservative ultra religious potato farmers in the midwest yanno. Otherme where do you live in Iowa? I'm in Council Bluffs. Hoops lives somewhere around here too, I think he's closer to Des Moines based on his posts. Might be wrong though.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Dec 10, 2013 9:38:58 GMT -5
Re my friend (who lives with her son & family) - they live in basically a 2 family house. Entire living quarters downstairs and upstairs. Only the kitchen and dining are not duplicated. Right now, they are renting, but the son is looking for a house to buy where both families can have privacy and personal space... This experiment is into year 2 now. It appears to be working because there is a win-win for both families. I think the 5 yr/old is the biggest winner. She will have a very special bond with her grandmother. Gardening Grandma, you're a grandma so you obviously get this. Very few parts of being a mom have been anything like I thought they would be, but seeing Babybird and my mom together is amazing and I am grateful for it every day. She was and is such a great mother to me, and I love that she's getting a chance to have that bond with my daughter as well. (I only hope Babybird likes me as much because it's stiff competition!! ) I'm in the Northeast and it seems like in-law apartments are getting more common up here. Something like a colonial for the main family and then a two story addition on one side where there is a small living area and kitchen on the first level and two bedrooms upstairs.It seems to be getting more common. As far as living space is concerned, my parents are fine with what they have now or maybe a little bit more (as long as they have access to a garage and preferably some land, as I mentioned). So an in-law suite, finished basement apartment, or small guest cottage would work beautifully for our purposes. My salary, bonus, and 401K contribution is about $80k a year. I would make about $100k to $120k in the highest cost of living areas. My mortgage for a new 3/2 house (well it was new 7 years ago when we built it) on 10 acres was $180k. I would never be able to duplicate the 10 acres in one of those HCOLA. In suburbia here in town, my house would be about $120k. Daycare here runs about $500 a month (assuming we need it - just preschool is $280). It would be $1500 a month minimum in a place where I would get that "double" salary. Utilities are also cheap here. Bonus is that my commute is 20 minutes all day every day. Maybe twice a year there is an accident on the freeway or the snow is bad enough. Other than the times my car broke down, my longest commute ever was 40 minutes. I'm still in the county with the City and that gives me access to an amazing library system. It has great parks. muttleynfelix, I think you nailed it. This is pretty much what we're going for with the new place - even though I wouldn't dream of making $80k in a LCOLA, I wouldn't think $40-50k would be out of the question (particularly if I'm still consulting and billing at big city rates - hey, a girl can dream). And that is plenty in many areas of the country. Frankly, one of my huge motivations for moving to a LCOLA is to live a more modest lifestyle. I hate the fact that I feel so squeezed out here. I really want us to have more breathing room, more time at home, and more focus on the important stuff. I cannot fathom how people pay $500k here for two bedroom houses that don't even look very nice. No thanks. come on, Firebird - you know you want to move to NJ and pay too much for everything! COME ONNNN!!!!!
@moneyjenny82, HA! Actually, I'd love to live on the East Coast again. I looooooooved living in PA, and there were some gorgeous areas in Maine and Massachusetts too. Unfortunately, the other 3/4 of the decision makers disagree with me Now, I couldn't live in the South. Far too conservative for me. But, I've also formed my biases through a very small amount of folks. (My BFF married a man who literally believed women belonged barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen to serve her man. He was planning to raise their daughter with these notions. She also told me people were very much into only teaching creationism in the schools)..When we went to the south a few times, I witnessed things that just made me cringe..
No way in hell are we living anywhere near the South, we all agree on that much (no offense to you Southerners). Yup! Mid is awesome. She can vouch that I am awesome. Bloomington, Indiana it is! Welcome to Indiana, Firebird! midjd and Pants, I don't require anyone to validate your awesomeness I'm just not sure "because some of the coolest people on my message board live there" is going to be a huge sell to my family. I too recommend the Springfield, MO area. You can get nice homes cheap around here and Springfield is large enough to find jobs. Not as many job options as Kansas City though. We bought a 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage on a crawl space brand new for $88K in a town of 2000 30 minutes SW of Springfield. It is a nice drive into Springfield. You can find homes on 3-5 acres pretty cheap too. And you would always have the entertainment of Branson nearby. It's definitely sounding like Missouri would be a good spot for us to consider. Thanks, kcladyjane (and others). What part of "Welcome to Indiana, Firebird!" did you not understand?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 10, 2013 9:55:45 GMT -5
Firebird- my commute to work is about 6 miles and takes me around 15 minutes (but that's because I have to navigate the high school parking lot on my way in to drop off the Boy at school). DH's commute is probably 8 miles and takes around 10 to 15 minutes. Crazy busy traffic could increase our commute by a whooping 2 or 3 minutes.
I just mention the Twin Cities because it's nice to be located to "Culture" without having to deal with the traffic on a daily basis. We usually drive up there about once a month to go shopping or to do something fun. Some people go more often and some people hardly ever go to the Cities. Living in CA I started relating distances to drive times. We like to shop at Trader Joe's and Vons when we lived in CA. Those stores were next to each other in our favorite little town. So we'd drive 30 minutes one way to go to the Grocery store. So one hour to get to the Twin Cities is nothing for us on a weekend day.
Where I live when you say "15 miles out of town" your drive in to town takes 15 minutes. It's not like living 15 miles away from work in a crazy busy metropolitan area. When we were in CA DH worked 25 miles from home and his commute took around 60 to 90 minutes depending on traffic. Here a 25 miles is close to 25 minutes.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 10, 2013 10:08:03 GMT -5
Have you tried findyourspot.com? It gives me some strange places, but it's kind of fun. Lizard Queen, thanks for this! I did it and it was kind of fun. My top spots were towns I've never heard of in Alaska (yeah right), Colorado, Idaho, and Michigan. I sent the link to my family - it's kind of annoying because you have to sign up to get your results but fun. If we all do it, maybe we'll get a city in common and have our answer I was going to suggest Pennsylvania until I got to the end of your post and saw not East We fit the rest of your criteria!constanz22 - preachin to the choir, sister! I'd love to go back to PA shanendoah - don't worry, we haven't ruled out Washington But Billings is a town we've been talking about also, so you're on the right wavelength. I definitely took deantrip's comments into consideration. A visit to Montana where we drive around a lot for a week or two is probably in order. The castle picture cracked me up. I didn't read the whole thread - so apologies if these were already mentioned: Spokane, WA. Eugene, OR. Maybe the Tri-Cities, WA? HoneyBBQ! How's your little one? These are all definitely on the table. Spokane is pretty cool. 973beachbum, Ogden is a town my dad suggested at one point. What's the weather like there? Hi Cookies Galore!! chiver78, I always value your opinion! But yeah, HCOL on the East Coast is somewhat in the wrong direction... I also feel compelled to caution you about Montana. Geographically it seems like a logical choice given your proclivities towards the Northwest but Montana is extremely, extremely conservative and they REALLY DO NOT like outsiders. And in particular, they hate Californians so beware. Bozeman might be OK and maybe Missoula but I would advise you to try out MT before committing. travelnut11, thanks for the good tips. I have friends in Madison and they love it, so maybe. Oh, and we're probably going to rent in our preferred area first. I hate the idea of more moves but we want to get it right this time so we need to make sure it's a good fit before we commit to a house - especially one where we have such specific needs. FINALLY caught up! Sorry if I missed anyone - like I said, ask me again if I missed your query. Thanks for all the great advice so far.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 10, 2013 10:15:53 GMT -5
What part of "Welcome to Indiana, Firebird!" did you not understand? Pants, if we are considering Indiana enough to visit I PROMISE to meet both you and midjd when we do!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Dec 10, 2013 11:13:30 GMT -5
Hi Firebird - LO is good - she just turned 2!!!! I can't believe it. It happens so quickly. Money grows so slowly... babies grow so quickly you can hardly stand it!
How is baby bird?
I would definitely pick Spokane if I didn't want the "big city" + taxes of Oregon. But it's hard to figure out. I love Montana in a crazy way but I honestly wouldn't want to raise children there. I'd love to retire there, lol. Are you guys planning trip or anything out West where you could check out some of the cities you're thinking about?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 10, 2013 11:43:03 GMT -5
"Ogden is a town my dad suggested at one point. What's the weather like there?" Firebird it is close to Salt Lake City. So it gets plenty of snow but my friends said it has 4 seasons and they "handle" the snow well in the winter for things like driving and such. They are pretty close to a few universities and colleges so it has a dencent amount of what I think of as bigger city amenities. It also had a decent job market for an area it's size. It is also a VERY Low COLA next to New Jersey. My one friend said she was a little unsure about living in an area she thought would be a very super conservate religious. She said everyone so far has either been very nice or had a MYOB attitude so nothing was said even if they did think she is weird, if you know what I mean. She did say that housing is super cheap, but the public school system seems spotty and if she has kids she will probably feel she has to do private school. That is all the second hand info I've got.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 10, 2013 11:48:15 GMT -5
IF you do end up checking out Madison (or LaCrosse), let me know and I'll meet you for lunch or something. I know there are at least 5 regular posters in Wisconsin. We really should do a meet up in 2014...
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Dec 10, 2013 11:57:50 GMT -5
We lived in SLC in the mid 1970s and I would hope some things have changed. We lived at about 6000ft elevation at the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon, home of Snowbird and Alta ski resorts. We had a lot of wonderful snowfalls, biggest flakes I've ever seen and snowed with little wind. However, we had the sun due to elevation, but the valley was frequently fogged int...to the point they had to seed it to get it to snow so flights could land.
Back then, the LDS influence was everywhere and there were some fairly weird laws. Our neighbors even had the courage to ask us to neither smoke or drink outside our house as they were offended by our actions. <Will not repeat what I said to them>
Pollution then was a very big problem due to Kennecott Copper Mine located in the west valley mountain range. There were yellow lines on the snow where the pollution stopped. The pollution would hang in the valley and only moved due to high winds from the north or south. On the few clear days we had, you could see Antelope Island in the middle of the Salt Lake (which is another filthy, sand flies infested place).
Our address back then was 3440 east and 9055 south. If you can look at a map of SLC all addresses are based on number of blocks from the Temple downtown. Even then, the commute for my DH was a good 45 minutes as his office was on the west side of town. Our nearest main road was Wasatch Blvd.
Sorry if I sound negative, but it would not be a place I would consider, unless things have changed drastically. We were there due to a transfer, it was the longest year I've ever had.
One other thing: How can you explain to your 4 y/o son that it is OK to play with the little boy across the street, but since you are not LDS you are not invited to his birthday party and the rest of your little playmates were. That was the last straw for me, and DH quickly requested a transfer back to Omaha.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Dec 10, 2013 12:28:17 GMT -5
I never commented on the comment about MT and outsiders. If you move to a town of 5000 or less, yes, there will be an outsider issue. But I grew up in a town of 10,000. We LOVED it when new people came in. And cities like Billings and Bozeman (or Great Falls or Helena or Missoula), while small-medium from your perspective, are cities and no one will bat an eye at an outsider. And while Missoula and Bozeman are the classic homes of the two universities, Great Fall and Billings both have campuses, and Helena is the state capital.
Just note that this last Saturday, it is projected that the south eastern part of MT (which includes Billings) was the coldest spot on the PLANET (yes, including both the poles). The weather is absolutely the reason I won't live there again, despite loving the state (especially Big Sky Country in the eastern part) and my father being there.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 10, 2013 12:50:02 GMT -5
We lived in SLC in the mid 1970s and I would hope some things have changed. We lived at about 6000ft elevation at the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon, home of Snowbird and Alta ski resorts. We had a lot of wonderful snowfalls, biggest flakes I've ever seen and snowed with little wind. However, we had the sun due to elevation, but the valley was frequently fogged int...to the point they had to seed it to get it to snow so flights could land.
Back then, the LDS influence was everywhere and there were some fairly weird laws. Our neighbors even had the courage to ask us to neither smoke or drink outside our house as they were offended by our actions. <Will not repeat what I said to them>
Pollution then was a very big problem due to Kennecott Copper Mine located in the west valley mountain range. There were yellow lines on the snow where the pollution stopped. The pollution would hang in the valley and only moved due to high winds from the north or south. On the few clear days we had, you could see Antelope Island in the middle of the Salt Lake (which is another filthy, sand flies infested place).
Our address back then was 3440 east and 9055 south. If you can look at a map of SLC all addresses are based on number of blocks from the Temple downtown. Even then, the commute for my DH was a good 45 minutes as his office was on the west side of town. Our nearest main road was Wasatch Blvd.
Sorry if I sound negative, but it would not be a place I would consider, unless things have changed drastically. We were there due to a transfer, it was the longest year I've ever had.
One other thing: How can you explain to your 4 y/o son that it is OK to play with the little boy across the street, but since you are not LDS you are not invited to his birthday party and the rest of your little playmates were. That was the last straw for me, and DH quickly requested a transfer back to Omaha. My sis and BIL lived in SLC in the early 2000's. They are not Mormon. She said it was hard to have much of a social life. People always wanted to know whether they were LDS. Doesn't sound as if much has changed....
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