Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 9:49:48 GMT -5
Hi everyone! I miss you guys A LOT. Feel free to hijack and tell me all about what you've been up to, since this is a fairly random thread and I won't be around to respond during business hours. DH, Babybird and I are doing good. Currently we're trying to figure out where to settle down long term. Although the plan has always been to move to Washington when we had enough money saved, we are starting to rethink that. Turns out that DH and I have a really similar picture in our head of the "ideal life" - which is a small-town, quiet life somewhere. It doesn't really fit with the vision we had for Washington - which, while it would be a huge improvement in many ways, wouldn't be much different from the life we have here in a lot of other ways. Here's what we're looking for in a "forever" location: -Low cost of living. We want to be able to afford a great house, preferably with a small bit of land. We're seriously considering going in on a place with my parents with separate living spaces (we all plan to move together). Ideally what that would look like is a main house for me, DH and Babybird with a guest cottage for my parents - same land but distinct dwellings - but we would also consider a finished apartment that was attached to a house, provided it had a separate entrance. Combining resources with my parents this way (I can already hear the screams of protest!) is a really good idea IN OUR SPECIFIC SITUATION for a bunch of reasons, which I'll explain if people are curious. But anyway, we want to be able to buy a pretty large and pretty nice house and also lower our living expenses by a lot. -Small town. This one is probably going to just be a matter of tons of research and visits well in advance of our move - it needs to be a place in which we all feel comfortable raising kids / growing old. We won't have a roaring social life at any point but it would be nice to make some friends and be a part of a community. So small to medium town would be ideal. -Career opportunities. We realize the first two kinda conflict with this one, which is why I'm looking for outside thoughts. My personal goal (which is part of the LCOL requirement) is for DH and I to be able to manage comfortably on one income - not necessarily because we ever will, but just so that we have some breathing room. We've never lived in a place where we haven't been able to get jobs as soon as we wanted them, and I'm well aware that this is largely because we have always lived near major metro areas. But what I'm doing right now (consulting) could probably be done remotely - maybe not for this specific company, but with the skill set and contacts I'm building, there could be more options in a few years. And DH is looking into a different career path with his current company, one which would give him more flexibility and location options. My parents (specifically my dad, as my mom will probably continue taking care of Babybird and maybe another little one down the line for the foreseeable future) will also need to be able to find some kind of work. He'll be officially retired at this point, but he doesn't plan to stop working and is in the process of deciding what he wants to do after he retires from the government. -Northwest states. Geographically, we're really flexible - we've been thinking about Montana to start with because of its proximity to Washington and very low COL, but basically anywhere west of Texas/Iowa/Minnesota is up for grabs. No one besides me is interested in going too far east, and it would be nice if we could stay pretty near Washington anyway. We'd love to be near a lake and I would prefer an area with seasons (specifically SNOW!). I know it's kind of weird that four grown adults don't know where they want to spend the rest of their lives, but the thing to understand is that none of us have real roots anywhere. In the past year, the five of us have become a pretty self-contained unit, so while we do want to be close enough to visit with DH's extended family more often, the most important thing is to be in a place where the four of us are all happy and can START putting down roots long-term. So it doesn't really matter specifically where that is, and as a result we decided it was time to think bigger. Wow, that was a long post! I'll answer any questions I need to, but mostly I'm just looking for ideas. Also, I can't post during work hours anymore, which is why I haven't been around (I have actual work responsibilities now!) so my responses will not be immediate but they will come eventually. I really miss these boards, which is my ulterior motive for starting this thread
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 9:52:16 GMT -5
Oh, I just realized I didn't say much about timing. My dad retires in about two years, so I'd say we need to have a solid plan in place within ~18 months. Depending on where we decide to go, DH and I may move a few months earlier than my parents and rent a place while we find jobs and make sure we really love the location before we all commit to buying a place.
So we're not in a huge rush but definitely need to start narrowing down possibilities.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Dec 5, 2013 9:54:03 GMT -5
My experience in the Northwest is a little limited, but I loved Oregon. Portland was not really LCOL but I adored the city; the public transit, food, culture were outstanding. I have family in the Bend area. Again, not the cheapest place to live, but it's hard to knock the scenery.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 5, 2013 9:56:22 GMT -5
Firebird, have you considered eastern WA? Housing costs are much lower and they get snow in winter....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 9:57:25 GMT -5
Welcome back FB! Glad to hear everyone is doing well!!! I know nothing of the PNW, so I will leave the suggestions to others. I don't think you living with family is weird! The sibling and I toyed with the idea of building a "compound" on 40ish acres of land with a main entrance and then separate driveways to each of our houses.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 9:57:53 GMT -5
Oregon is GORGEOUS. Totally with you on that one. Driving almost anywhere in that state is a real treat.
But yeah, I didn't think it was particularly LCOL. I wish!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 5, 2013 9:58:16 GMT -5
I love the western part of Lower Michigan (I know, not in your Zone). There is a growing local farm movement and a booming wine production business.
Maybe expand your horizons?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 5, 2013 10:00:50 GMT -5
About combining resources with parents, I have a friend (in this case, the "parent") who has done that. My friend (mid 70's) and her husband live with their son, his wife and 5 year old daughter. Both the son and his wife have high powered careers. My friend does the childcare, cooking and housework. Her husband does the yardwork. Son and wife pay the bills.
It works for them.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 10:01:12 GMT -5
Firebird, have you considered eastern WA? Housing costs are much lower and they get snow in winter....
Whereabouts? Washington is definitely not out of the question if we can find an area where it's possible to afford the kind of house that we want. I mean, that's where we originally wanted to go. We just realized, after a lot of discussion, that Seattle and the outlying areas (which is where DH's family lives) is not right for us. I don't think you living with family is weird! The sibling and I toyed with the idea of building a "compound" on 40ish acres of land with a main entrance and then separate driveways to each of our houses. Glad I'm not the only one. If you told me five years ago that I'd be thinking of buying a place with my parents, I would have told you to put down the crack pipe. But things change, and it makes a lot of sense now. It's what we all want. Currently we live across the street from each other and it's awesome. Separate living spaces is a must, though. We want to be close but we are all very private people and need our own spaces.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 10:07:59 GMT -5
I love the western part of Lower Michigan (I know, not in your Zone). There is a growing local farm movement and a booming wine production business.Wine production, you say?! I'm all ears! Michigan is a little further than we'd like but personally I wouldn't rule it out. I have friends who went to school there and they loved it. Any particular town you liked a lot?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 10:15:52 GMT -5
About combining resources with parents, I have a friend (in this case, the "parent") who has done that. My friend (mid 70's) and her husband live with their son, his wife and 5 year old daughter.
I am heartened to hear that other people do this and enjoy it. I've never personally known anyone who tried it. Like I said, I never would have considered it in my early twenties but now that I'm a bit older and have a family, I see so much value in it. I love the idea that Babybird will continue to have a close, daily relationship with her grandparents, not to mention all the benefits of a SAH(G)M while I continue working.
And eventually, my parents will get old and need more help that we'll be much better equipped to give them if they're living with us. They'll be able to maintain their independence that much longer if we're close enough to pop in and check on things regularly.
We were always planning to live close by, but pooling our resources means we can get more bang for our buck. Plus, we want more house than they do so if we weren't getting a place together, we'd likely be looking at separate neighborhoods and I would prefer to be as close as we are now. The convenience of having them right across the street when my mom watches Babybird four days a week really can't be overstated.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 10:17:01 GMT -5
Oops - I meant to post this in YM Off Topic. I guess I'm out of practice! Mods, feel free to move it if you're so inclined. Sorry about that.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 5, 2013 10:17:55 GMT -5
What's wrong with Iowa? Potato farming is awesome! Anyhoo if you're willing to be open minded there are quite a few cities in Iowa that would be right up your alley. Same with Nebraska. I'm not exactly sure what either of you do for a living but most of the bigger cities would probably have what you need. Des Moines would be a good fit for what you're looking for. Omaha might be too depending on what it is you do. There are the university towns like Cedar Rapids, Ames, Iowa city and Lincoln Nebraska as well. You can definetly live on one income all around IA/NE in general. In fact Council Bluffs, where I live, was rated as one of the LCOL of living areas in the country acccording to our local paper with Omaha not too far behind.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 5, 2013 10:20:30 GMT -5
I was going to suggest eastern WA too. It is cheaper than the west side of the Cascades, and if you look at the Tri-Cities area (Pasco, Richmond, Kennewick) you'd be near some prime vineyards! We were out there for some hydroplane races on the Columbia and house prices are definitely less there.
I think that Bellingham (where I'm at now) would have the style of living you want, but it is not inexpensive here.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 5, 2013 10:20:44 GMT -5
We've missed you too Firebird. It's good to "see" you again. Actually, the Midwest has a bunch of wineries. Some are grape and some are other fruits that grow better. I think Wisconsin has about 50 wineries or more scattered all over the state. You might eyeball outside of Madison or La Crosse, just for shits and grins.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Dec 5, 2013 10:23:04 GMT -5
I probably too far east for you. But seriously, I have all those requirements where I live except the geographic location. I don't live in town. Low cost of living. - Check. Small town. - Several to choose from. How small do you want to go? Career opportunities - More than likely. The city I work in is an easy commute from several dozen small towns and has a low unemployment rate. Northwest states. - Definitely not. But you can easily live on a lake. Lots to choose from around here. We get some snow. Not a ton and it usually doesn't last ... of course I say that and we are suppose to get about 4 inches today and tomorrow and not get above freezing for the week which is highly unusual for us in December.
You can be in Washington with a one stop flight or I think non-stop if you drove up to KC or STL.
Anyway, there are tons of locations in the US that fit your description. Throw a dart on the map and then google the place and go from there.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Dec 5, 2013 10:23:19 GMT -5
Hi, FB!! Glad to hear you are all doing well and making long term plans.
Having no experience north of Napa County, California (hic, LOL), I can only speak about small towns. Some small towns are wonderfully open to newcomers, new blood, new ideas. Others are absolutely not open to anything new. Even those that are open to newcomers want the new folks to "ease" into the community. So, learn all that you can about the small towns you consider -- how many new folks have moved into town in the past five years, what the town's social culture is (myob/gregarious/everyone in), political majority, spiritual majority, town issues (needs new schools/budget issues/tax rate history/lack of medical professionals/etc.), major town players, etc. You don't want to have to wait 50 years until you are no longer the "new family", iykwim. And just be prepared for EVERYONE to know your business--whether you ever even tell anyone your business, small town folk still have a way of knowing it, LOL. But, in the right town, you CAN develop life long friendship, a deep support system and live a meaningful, connected life.
Good luck on the search.
Hey, how is DH's niece doing these days?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Dec 5, 2013 10:35:40 GMT -5
I love the western part of Lower Michigan (I know, not in your Zone). There is a growing local farm movement and a booming wine production business. Maybe expand your horizons? I was going to say the same thing, because basically, that's all I know. Some nice cities: Grand Rapids--not on the lake, but lots of jobs, Grand Haven, South Haven, Traverse City - several wineries in TC Ludington, Pentwater--very small, so not many jobs, but great for fishing if that's your thing
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 10:36:05 GMT -5
NomoreDramaQ1015, isn't it pretty conservative in the midwest? I think it might be a little too much so for us to fit in there. But, who knows? The Walk of the Penguin Mich, I'll have to check out houses in those towns. Thanks! Wisconsin Beth, I've been seriously pining for this board lately! I miss you guys. muttleynfelix, I actually can't remember where you live. But our babies are close in age so that would be fun GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl, you're right about small towns. They all have very different feels. Hey, how is DH's niece doing these days?Thanks for asking. She's doing all right, I think. The truth is that we haven't seen her in a long time and don't have much contact with her. I wish I had more to report We really miss them and we haven't seen the baby since she was a month old. It's been a hard year financially and we just haven't been able to visit.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 5, 2013 10:36:59 GMT -5
We've missed you too Firebird. It's good to "see" you again. Actually, the Midwest has a bunch of wineries. Some are grape and some are other fruits that grow better. I think Wisconsin has about 50 wineries or more scattered all over the state. You might eyeball outside of Madison or La Crosse, just for shits and grins. Actually, I would stay away from Madison/Dane County. Housing is pretty expensive, even in the small bedroom communities. Plus, bedroom communities keep getting bigger, which means more demands on services and ultimately higher taxes. The school systems in the wealthier communities are pretty good, mostly because they don't have to deal with poverty. In Madison, 50% of the student population lives in poverty and the school system does not know how to teach this population. Everything is also neighborhood based, at least in Madison. If you want to go to a school with less than a 50% poverty rate, you are looking at spending 350-500K on a house. And, should something happen to your daycare situation, daycare here is expensive. Like 1500/month for an infant toddler expensive, either in home or in a center. Personally, I would look at some place like Eau Claire if you are inclined to look into WI. It's close to the Twin Cities (much more vibrant than Milwaukee/Madison), with a lower COLA. If I were you, I'd maybe PM MinnesotaPaintLady. She lives close to Mayo.. What about Missouri? The northern part gets some winter weather..but it's not like 8 feet of snow.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Dec 5, 2013 10:40:58 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
1) Look for university towns - likely to be employment opportunities across a range of industries, often small. Universities often draw cultural stuff to them - decent food, decent concerts, etc.
2) Limiting yourself to PNW actually really limits the potential to find what you want - not that there aren't places out there, but there are more in the middle of the country and the east coast. Lots of big companies have bases in the middle of the country, and towns there support the company and build communities.
3) How small are you talking? Small city? Large town? Very small town?
4) Midwestern wine is crap. Don't let them lure you with the vineyard promise - horribly sweet, blech.
If I were you, I would look for something just outside a major university town or small city.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 5, 2013 10:41:37 GMT -5
Madison's got to be better than Milwaukee/SE Wisconsin but I concede your points Giramomma.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 5, 2013 10:43:13 GMT -5
<Beth crosses off bsbound from ever sharing a wine-tasting event. We obviously have different ideas about wine...>
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Dec 5, 2013 10:45:45 GMT -5
Beth -
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 10:48:36 GMT -5
We've missed you too Firebird. It's good to "see" you again. Actually, the Midwest has a bunch of wineries. Some are grape and some are other fruits that grow better. I think Wisconsin has about 50 wineries or more scattered all over the state. You might eyeball outside of Madison or La Crosse, just for shits and grins. Actually, I would stay away from Madison/Dane County. Housing is pretty expensive, even in the small bedroom communities. Plus, bedroom communities keep getting bigger, which means more demands on services and ultimately higher taxes. The school systems in the wealthier communities are pretty good, mostly because they don't have to deal with poverty. In Madison, 50% of the student population lives in poverty and the school system does not know how to teach this population. Everything is also neighborhood based, at least in Madison. If you want to go to a school with less than a 50% poverty rate, you are looking at spending 350-500K on a house. And, should something happen to your daycare situation, daycare here is expensive. Like 1500/month for an infant toddler expensive, either in home or in a center. Personally, I would look at some place like Eau Claire if you are inclined to look into WI. It's close to the Twin Cities (much more vibrant than Milwaukee/Madison), with a lower COLA. If I were you, I'd maybe PM MinnesotaPaintLady. She lives close to Mayo..What about Missouri? The northern part gets some winter weather..but it's not like 8 feet of snow. Rochester with Mayo Clinc has a lot of jobs, LCOL and only an hour drive to MPLS, but the Lacrosse/Winona area is gorgeous and you could come hang out at my house. Plenty of wineries around here. My son's and I pick grapes every fall to raise money for the Scouts. Oh, and even though I live outside of a town of about 26K, there two universities, two private colleges and two technical colleges within 25 minutes of my house and tuition at the state schools is about 8K/year.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 5, 2013 10:49:42 GMT -5
isn't it pretty conservative in the midwest? I think it might be a little too much so for us to fit in there. But, who knows? I don't find it to be so but then I don't really think and have lived here my entire life so maybe I just don't notice? In most recent years according to my google search Iowa has been democratic in the presidential elections if that counts for anything. Nebraska mainly leans Republican. I do think the midwest gets a really bad rap. I'm sure if you head into the smaller farming communities you're going to find pockets where you don't fit in but that's the same as any small town anywhere you go. I live in one of the larger cities of Southwest Iowa and work in one of the larger Nebraska cities and I've never noticed my views being considered out of whack. Like anywhere else it depends on how small exactly you want to go. In Des Moines it's not like you'll be run out of town for your views, it's a large city with lots of people. Move to Mineola where if you blink you find yourself already out of town then you might find it harder to fit in since it's such a small and not very diverse community. Then there are the university towans which according to P&M are a hotbed of liberal evil agendas.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Dec 5, 2013 10:50:07 GMT -5
Full disclosure: my parents live outside Bloomington, IN which has IU, Indiana's main public university. They retired on 120 acres, about 20 min outside town. It's cheap, it's pretty, it snows. Bloomington is a nice little town in terms of restaurants and such. Somehow they can't manage to have a decent pizza joint or a real deli, but other than that pretty decent. I would look for something like that in your preferred areas.
ETA: OR move to Bloomington and hang out with Mid and occassionally me.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 5, 2013 10:51:24 GMT -5
And, should something happen to your daycare situation, daycare here is expensive. Like 1500/month for an infant toddler expensive, either in home or in a center.
I'm about to start work so I'll make this quick but this is also a good consideration. We pay approximately $1,200/month for daycare right now (we have three DCPs including my mom and they all get paid) and I'd love to get that down some.
Obviously Babybird won't be a baby forever but we are planning on a second kid at some point so I anticipate daycare being part of our budget for a good while.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 5, 2013 10:54:46 GMT -5
Beth - Admittedly, I like sweet white wines but I don't drink most of the instate wines either. I like Wollensheim and their sister winery Cedar Creek and there's an awesome one in Door County that I'm blanking on the name of.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 5, 2013 10:55:05 GMT -5
Madison's got to be better than Milwaukee/SE Wisconsin but I concede your points Giramomma. It helps Madison that the university and city and state gov't propping it up. DH and I just went to the Historical Museum. We went through it in an hour and a half. And compared to the Mil Public Museum or The Field museum, it just completely blows. Don't get me wrong, I still Madison, warts and all. The baby sees Bucky and says "U Rah Rah" Some of the bigger bedroom communities are OK. Some have more of a choice than the local mom and pop grocery store and piggly wiggly. Some have a Shopko or a Target. But, I'd hate to have to drive a half hour just to get to work and reasonably priced groceries. But that's not my preferred lifestyle.
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