Age appropriate discipline

[perhaps]

Well we have a nice blanket of snow on the ground and 5 days off.  Unfortunately neighbor is grounded so I am DDs playmate.  Neighbor girl M is 6 years old and is often grounded for days if not a complete week.  She is a good kid, well mannered, polite, and a good friend if she wasn't she wouldn't be over my house so much.

I just find grounding a 6 year old to be a bit much.  She is grounded for not doing her chores, not practicing her site words and math facts.  To me this is typical for a child her age, grounding just seems mean.  And what form of punishment are they going to use when she is older.  

DD is 8 and we have never grounded her.  The most we do is send her to her room for a short while.  Most of the time just warning her is enough to bring her back in line.  I figure I am going to need to save grounding for the tween and teen years.

So what do you say?  Is grounding a 6 year old for days appropriate?

[milee]

Depends on other factors.

I don't remember grounding my six year old son very often, but on the few occasions when I did, it wasn't just for the initial issue it was for how he responded when we discussed the issue with him.  Or for repeat problems with the same issue.

For example, if the 6 year old doesn't do chores, site words and math facts, my first step is to talk to him/her. If the child apologizes and then does the work, no biggie, crisis averted. If the kid cops an attitude, then the talk gets more direct. If the attitude still persists, then maybe grounding is in order.

BTW, just because the 6 year old is polite and respectful for you, doesn't mean that's what she's displaying for the parents and might be part of the issue. Don't know.

[Deleted]

web.archive.org/web/20101104141241/http://www.achristianhome.com/to_train_up_a_child.htm

The child should have been whipped long ago. But it is never too late to start.

[Shooby]

  I don't think grounding would really be all that effective for a 6 or 8 yr old.  I think it is too vague for them to really make the connection.  I think something more specific to the issue works better.  If the child isn't doing homework then perhaps something just connected to homework like TV time or something.  And for grounding, most of our homes are like living in Disneyland nowadays, so I don't think kids care too much about just staying at home or even in their rooms.
  I don't recall giving my kids much in the way of punishment other than talking to them and maybe having them stand in the corner for a few minutes.

[milee]

Not sure shame is helpful, but a little guilt isn't a bad thing and some kids need punishment. It shouldn't be harsh, should be a reasonable consequence of the action and shouldn't be the first resort but only a last resort after positive reinforcement and modeling isn't working.

It's interesting to see the different responses based on how the OP is worded. In this case, people are responding that the parents seem harsh on such a nice young girl, but has anyone stopped to consider that maybe the parents' discipline is part of what is making and keeping her such a nice girl?

Wrongside, weren't you the one with the poorly behaved neighbor kid, Jordan? Wouldn't Jordan have benefitted from some fair but firm discipline? 

And Shooby, I don't see how standing in a corner is any more of a natural consequence than being grounded. If the little girl most values going out and playing and she gets a bad attitude about doing her work so she can skip it and go play, then grounding is a very natural consequence of not first doing the work.

[swamp]

BTW, just because the 6 year old is polite and respectful for you, doesn't mean that's what she's displaying for the parents and might be part of the issue. Don't know

My DD is an absolute Angel at school and I get raves about her behavior.  She is also very well behaved at friends' houses.

At home it is a completely different story, complete with "you can't make me do that, you're not the boss of me, you can't tell me what to do, I hate you, you're the meanest mom ever, blah, blah, blah."   It also includes the hand on the hip, "talk to the hand", eye rolling, stomping, screaming, arms crossed, and refusal to look at me.

[giramomma]

We don't call it grounding, we call it a loss of privileges. It's really the same thing. I'm not blessed with kids who listen to me/obey us  24/7. And, while we DO get compliments about how well behaved our kids our in public, it doesn't mean our children are angels at home. When #3 was a newborn, #1 decided it was appropriate to give #2 a black eye.

In fact, once, DH asked DS why he only acted out with us and not with anyone else. DS said that if he acts out at friends houses, grandma's, school he knows he'll be sent home. Where are we going to send him?

Our kids are not allowed to play, watch tv, get an electronic device until their homework is done. Which, really sucks for #1 because he's a staller. Always has been, always will be. At age 10, he's finally getting that if he stalls/whines/complains about doing homework, it's going to take him twice as long to get it done.

He's had to miss playing with neighbor kids because of it. He's missed his half hour of tv time at night because of it. I don't think anyone should take pity on him or feel bad for him. My son is free to make choices on his behavior. He also knows there are different consequences with said behavior. I don't think this rule of home, snack, homework, THEN play is so outlandish. And I don't think it's horrible that we make DS deal with the consequences of his behavior.

We do family chore time where everyone cleans together for a set amount of time. So, we don't ground for chores.

[Sam_2.0]

Discipline methods that work for one kid may not work for another. I could spank my daughter all day long and she could care less. But put her in time-out away from her toys and she freaks out. My sister was the same way when we were younger. For me, I am such an introvert that being put in my room by myself is not even close to being a punishment. And just the threat of a spanking was usually enough to bring me back in-line. I hated to see that I had disappointed my parents at all - that was worse than any punishment they could come up with. My brother never understood time-outs, but spankings got his attention.

[Deleted]

I don't ground my 11 year old because he wouldn't view that as a punishment.  I wish he liked going outside and playing, but he doesn't, so if I want to "hit him where it hurts" I take away his ipod.

[milee]

Nov 27, 2013 10:44:42 GMT -5 giramomma said:

In fact, once, DH asked DS why he only acted out with us and not with anyone else. DS said that if he acts out at friends houses, grandma's, school he knows he'll be sent home. Where are we going to send him?

  So true!

One time when our older son was in his room moping that he didn't think we loved him, I overheard the younger one (4.5 years younger, takes things very literally) comforting him.  Younger son was saying, "Mommy loves you very much.  I know she does!  She loves me and I am a "complete disaster"!"

[whoami]

I was grounded for a week once when I was in elementary school. No TV and no friends after school either until my sassy little attitude at school shaped up. Mom loves to repeat the story...after a week the note from my teacher said my behavior had improved 1000%. That is the only grounding I ever really remember so it definitely made an impact. 

[giramomma]

Nov 27, 2013 11:09:27 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

I know my opinion isn't the popular one, but I don't think punishment or rewards (positive reinforcement) are effective. I think it's more helpful for children to make changes, not in order to avoid punishment or get a reward, but because they see the change as benefiting themselves.


I really like this article titled "Punished by Rewards".

www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/pbracwak.htm

It's been a long time since I've read Alfie Kohn. And, I think some of his things make a ton of sense.

The problem, though, is that my oldest child in particular, is simply TERRIBLE at self regulating and is very laid back. Seriously, the kid sees the bright side in everything and doesn't see the gravity of the situation.

We talk to our kids all.the.time. Sometimes talking doesn't work.

[whoisjohngalt]

I promised myself to stay away from parenting threads bc according to many I am raising my kids in all kinds of wrong ways.

Otherwise, I would have a lot to say

[whoisjohngalt]

Nov 27, 2013 11:09:27 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Nov 27, 2013 10:34:24 GMT -5 milee said:

I know my opinion isn't the popular one, but I don't think punishment or rewards (positive reinforcement) are effective. I think it's more helpful for children to make changes, not in order to avoid punishment or get a reward, but because they see the change as benefiting themselves.


I really like this article titled "Punished by Rewards".

www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/pbracwak.htm

I somewhat agree with that, but the problem is that everyone that I've met who subscribes to that philosophy always assumes that nurture will trump nature.  And that is just not true.

Some kids will never model good behaviour no matter how much you try.

that's why I HATE HATE HATE parenting books with parenting "philosophies".

[Abby Normal]

Nov 27, 2013 10:46:35 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Discipline methods that work for one kid may not work for another. 

Maybe they ground their child because it is what works for her.  They are trying to get her to make the right choices.  It may be that they are coming down hard now, but in the long run, the lesson will be learned and the won't have to come down harder later.

I came down hard on my 8 year old, for lying.  In the grand scheme of things, if it was the worse lie he ever told, I'd be totally ok with it.  But the lesson stuck, and we've not had a problem with lying since.  I've always gone with the theory that kids are going to try to lie, but if you fess up, you get in less trouble.  When DS didn't fess up, his world came crashing down. He's now 12.  I asked him the other day if his homework was done. He said yes (and I could tell he was leaving something out) and when I gave him the stink eye (because I knew he had not done anything) he said, " Well no, but it's not do until xxx so I figured I could do tomorrow". 

Coming down hard early, can have good ramifications later as they get older.  They already know their boundaries. 

[Sam_2.0]

You know what makes us ALL good parents? The fact that we worry about appropriate methods of discipline/reward/behavior modification. The fact that we all care enough about our little monsters to help guide them along the way using methods we have found to suit their little personalities. What works for one family may not work for another...right now, but how many times have we run into a problem and then remembered back to a little snippet of something we saw somewhere and decide to give it a try to see if maybe that will work. I like that we can share what works for us here without saying that is the way it has to work for all kids at all times.

[swamp]

I had parenting philosophies.  Then I had kids. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Nov 27, 2013 11:32:35 GMT -5 swamp said:

I had parenting philosophies.  Then I had kids. 

exactly

[Tiny]

What does grounding mean?

I'm not sure grounding a 6 year old for a week or more is effective - that's like an eternity to a 6 year old. I can see curtailing some play time in order for the kid to do their homework/extra work -- so maybe that's what the grounding means in terms of the OP... not being able to spend a couple of hours during the week away with friends.

After all, don't little kids need to learn how to say 'no' to some stuff they'd rather do so they can do the things they are duty bound or obligated to do (like homework and chores)?

Judging from some of my neices/nephews, who pretty much got free reins as kids - shouldering obligations and duties seems like torture to them now as twenty somethings - they'd rather just keep doing the 'fun stuff'.

That said, if 'grounding' in the OP means just curtailing some playtime with friends so the grounded kid has time to do the chores/homework/whatever then maybe it's not such a bad idea...

[Wisconsin Beth]

My Dad used to ground us at the drop of a hat - and it meant staying in the house.  This was in the dark ages when no one had electronics.  Sometimes it meant staying in your room, sometimes it was just the house. 

And most of the time, my mom would 'unground' us as soon as she heard about it.  Because SHE wasn't going to be stuck with us indoors in summer, trying to keep us quiet so Dad could sleep (he worked 3rd shift until I was 15.)

[HoneyBBQ]

Nov 27, 2013 11:23:21 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Nov 27, 2013 11:19:41 GMT -5 giramomma said:

It's been a long time since I've read Alfie Kohn. And, I think some of his things make a ton of sense.

The problem, though, is that my oldest child in particular, is simply TERRIBLE at self regulating and is very laid back. Seriously, the kid sees the bright side in everything and doesn't see the gravity of the situation.

We talk to our kids all.the.time. Sometimes talking doesn't work.

I'm not trying to talk anybody into anything or judge the way other people parent. I just wanted to mention what works for us.

I started reading Unconditional Parenting and really liked some of the ideas...but I didn't finish it and had to get it back to the library and now there's a wait list. :/


I want to be a logical, "rule" based parent but I also want my child to learn because they want to, not because they are getting a dessert, gold star, etc.  I never really considered it until a friend of mine told me that they didn't give their (well behaved) 10 yr old an allowance, but yet he was expected to do chores. It was all part of being in the family and having expectations of behavior and contributions. It seemed to make a lot of sense but I don't know that much about it.

What do you do if you child misbehaves? 

[HoneyBBQ]

A six year old should not be grounded IMO. That seems way too young for grounding. Especially over a holiday weekend.
Tiger parenting... ugh.

[whoisjohngalt]

Nov 27, 2013 13:00:43 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Nov 27, 2013 11:20:01 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I promised myself to stay away from parenting threads bc according to many I am raising my kids in all kinds of wrong ways.

Otherwise, I would have a lot to say

I always like your parenting posts.  

Thank you

[Wisconsin Beth]

They are interesting Rae, that's for sure! 

[raeoflyte]

Nov 27, 2013 11:09:27 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Nov 27, 2013 10:34:24 GMT -5 milee said:

Wrongside, weren't you the one with the poorly behaved neighbor kid, Jordan? Wouldn't Jordan have benefitted from some fair but firm discipline? 

Jordan would benefit from having parents who modeled better behavior and invested time in him.

Not sure shame is helpful, but a little guilt isn't a bad thing and some kids need punishment. It shouldn't be harsh, should be a reasonable consequence of the action and shouldn't be the first resort but only a last resort after positive reinforcement and modeling isn't working.

I know my opinion isn't the popular one, but I don't think punishment or rewards (positive reinforcement) are effective. I think it's more helpful for children to make changes, not in order to avoid punishment or get a reward, but because they see the change as benefiting themselves.


I really like this article titled "Punished by Rewards".

www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/pbracwak.htm

Did this always work for you, or was there an age that it started taking off?  Ds "theme" lately is, but that's stupid.  And 99% of the time it is stupid, but it still has to be done (cleaning up toys, not yelling inside, etc).  

[Deleted]

I don't know how this anal retentive uterus ever gave birth to a laid back, type B personality that could care less about being on time, completing tasks, or keeping track of any of his things, but it's been a parenting challenge to say the least.  He is SO smart and has SO much potential, but he is as lazy as all get out.

[perhaps]

We have spent a fair amount of time with this family.....bbqs, Sunday football, bonfires, trick of treating. They really don't have a lot of patience with M. She does the littlest thing wrong and they are all over her. I think a lot of the grounding comes from her dad. He gets her off the bus everyday and does not seem to spend a lot of time with her. He tinkers in the garage or in the yard while she is in the house alone. If DD wants to play with her at this time it is at our house where they are supervised.

I just think grounding a 6 year old for a week for not making her bed is a bit excessive. And is it really effective? Is she really going to remember on day 4 why she is stuck in the house?

They also are always comparing M.s behavior to DD. I have heard them say to her more than once that they wished she was more like DD. That crushes me, the look on her face is devastating. DD is 2 years and 2 grades older than M.

I just think they are way too hard on M. They just moved here a little over a year ago. Prior to that they were living with grandparents. I think this is where M picked up her manners and politeness.

[Wisconsin Beth]

That's sad.  And now my heart hurts for M. 

[zibazinski]

I have two children whose behavior is so opposite that it reminds me of Jekyll and Hyde. What works for one would never work for the other. That was tough. You do the best you can and hope their basic goodness will eventually shine through.

[violagirl]

I think my parents had a good mix in their disclipline.

When I was six, I ran away from school with another girl. Although, my stomach told me it probably wasn't a great idea at the time, it is only as an adult that I understand why all the adults freaked out so much. Plus, the kids told my teacher that they saw us in the grass fire that was beside the school that afternoon.    After school, I'm not sure if the school called my parents or my  brother supplied the information, but my Dad sat me down to understand my motivations. That is one area he was really good at, we would be sent to our rooms to calm down, and then he would come in and try to figure out just why we were behaving that way. In this case, while he understood my motivations (peer pressure), and I dont' think I needed to be told that running away from school wasn't a great idea, my punishment was designed specifically for me. I think I had to go to bed early for a couple of weeks. I always hated going to bed, so it did the trick. Especially hard to go to bed when you can hear everyone outside still playing.

It wasn't fear of punishment that would prevent us from misbahaving, it was more the fear of disappointing our parents. I also think the ability to exercise self control is learned earlier and easier in some children than others.

A week of not playing outside for failing to do chores seems slightly overkill, but it might have been the end result of a culmination of things - chores only being one of them.