thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 20, 2013 22:59:21 GMT -5
Learning music as a child has benefits beyond simple music. There are studies that prove that children who take a fair bit of music are better at math and critical reasoning. (I'm sure we have a correlation/causation thing here.)
Achievement in sports is heralded as proof that you can actually work hard and can be part of a team.
My son is more inclined to be an athlete - which is fine, I'm doing everything I can to support that. However, many of his friends are going to go to a performing arts middle school. They get to choose between an instrument and ballet. My husband has been insisting that if he goes to that middle school he MUST take ballet because it would make him a better athlete. Would it be so terrible if he learned the trumpet?
Do you think sports has more value in a child's life than music?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 23:01:37 GMT -5
Ballet is done to music, includes rhythm, tempo, beat, etc...
i think either would be beneficial... I'd ask him what he prefers...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 20, 2013 23:17:22 GMT -5
I don't think listening to music, or dancing to music qualifies you to be considered a musician.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Nov 20, 2013 23:19:47 GMT -5
I don't think listening to music, or dancing to music qualifies you to be considered a musician. No, but he'd understand rhythm and interpretation AND be more flexible and graceful at sports. Have either of you asked your son if he would even take ballet? That's a pretty stereotypical non-boy class, I would imagine.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 20, 2013 23:23:26 GMT -5
I'm a classically trained musician. Performing in a group is just as much about teamwork as playing football. I probably put in more time practicing/play my instrument than college athletes did. It's pretty common to be playing your instrument 5-8 hours a day. Even in high school, some days, I was touching my instrument 3-4 hours, and that wasn't all that "serious" of a commitment. In my city, some sports are not allowed to be practiced at the HS level for more than 3 hours a day.....
Now, personally, I think music can add more value to the life of a child, long term. I know plenty of musician folks, both professional and amateur that are playing well into their 70s and through their 80's.
I don't see the same for the typical sports. IOW, I don't see football, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball leagues for people in their late 70's or 80s. Individual sports or small team sports (like playing doubles in tennis or bowling), sure.
That said, I'm also in the camp that you let your kids choose what they want. I have one child that wants nothing to do with music. And that is fine. I've got another one that wants to do an instrument and sing in a choir. That's fine too...
I feel my job, as a parent, is to expose my children to as much as I possibly can so that they know themselves, and know their hobbies/interests/loves before they leave for college. I think I will have failed as a parent if my kids refuse to retire because they have absolutely no other interests other than work.
We encourage our kids to try things. They do need to commit to the activity for however long the season/class is. But, if they don't want to do it, they are free to stop after the first time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 23:27:13 GMT -5
The correlation between music and critical thinking/math is not really about 'being a musician'... It's about interacting with and eventually gaining understanding of musical constructs, the language of music ... Just listening to classical music has been shown to improve math output. He can do all that in ballet.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 20, 2013 23:30:16 GMT -5
I don't think listening to music, or dancing to music qualifies you to be considered a musician. No, but he'd understand rhythm and interpretation AND be more flexible and graceful at sports. Have either of you asked your son if he would even take ballet? That's a pretty stereotypical non-boy class, I would imagine. It is too late to ask him - his father already brainwashed him against learning an instrument. He was talking about learning the sax for the last 18 months, and in the last 6 weeks my husband squashed it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 23:30:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 23:36:24 GMT -5
No, but he'd understand rhythm and interpretation AND be more flexible and graceful at sports. Have either of you asked your son if he would even take ballet? That's a pretty stereotypical non-boy class, I would imagine. It is too late to ask him - his father already brainwashed him against learning and instrument. He was talking about learning the sax for the last 18 months, and in the last 6 weeks my husband squashed it. I guess I don't see attempting to sway him somewhat if the son doesn't care, but kinda sad that he squashed his dreams because he thinks ballet will make him a better athlete? He doesn't get to do what he wants....AND he has to wear a leotard!?!?!?!
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 20, 2013 23:38:19 GMT -5
It is too late to ask him - his father already brainwashed him against learning and instrument. He was talking about learning the sax for the last 18 months, and in the last 6 weeks my husband squashed it. That sucks. Does your husband believe that kids must do activities/interests based on gender stereotypes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 23:39:57 GMT -5
I'd guess not if he's pushing for ballet...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 20, 2013 23:42:22 GMT -5
My husband was trying to do the right thing. He wanted to make sure the kid was getting enough physical activity during the day - given that there is no PE in this school. I really doubt my son will go to that school, and I will discourage him if he thinks going there will make him a better soccer player. He would be better off going to the middle school that has a great soccer team and a great soccer coach and PE.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 20, 2013 23:46:28 GMT -5
It is too late to ask him - his father already brainwashed him against learning and instrument. He was talking about learning the sax for the last 18 months, and in the last 6 weeks my husband squashed it. That sucks. Does your husband believe that kids must do activities/interests based on gender stereotypes? Not necessarily. Our kids are very gender stereo-typical - they came to us that way. As soon as they could show a preference my daughter was about pink and frilly and my son was about balls and cars. We tried to balance that out - forcing my daughter to play hot wheels and such, but that failed. My husband is just a sports nut, and my son is a good athlete, so my husband has gotten tunnel vision about who his son is, and what he is interested in. I think there is plenty of time for a 9 year old to try many things in their lifetime.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 21, 2013 6:35:24 GMT -5
Whether sports or music is better for your kid depends almost entirely on the kid and what his individual strengths, weaknesses and needs are. IMHO, neither is inherently superior and both offer advantages.
Figure out what your kid enjoys and needs to round him out.
Your involvement as a parent and support for helping him master whichever instrument, sport or skill he needs is far more important than picking a any particular one. You and DH sound like great parents with great kids.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 21, 2013 6:41:22 GMT -5
I don't think either has more value. My kids are athletes but I thought it VERY important that they are all exposed to music as well. All of my kids have taken up instruments and music instruction. And, I paid for private lessons for all of them as well. My oldest son had bass and trumpet lessons. Younger son had drum lessons and he was in the Honors Band, Jazz band and regular band. DD plays clarinet and piano and takes private piano lessons and was in District Choir. AND, she scored 20 pts in her bball game last week. For me, music/art is equally as important as sports. I think most of us just want well rounded children. I doubt any of my kids is going to be a professional athlete but they probably aren't going to be a professional musician either. It is all a HOBBY to be enjoyed as part of life and one's life experiences. So, that is the manner in which I approach this.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 21, 2013 6:45:58 GMT -5
The correlation between music and critical thinking/math is not really about 'being a musician'... It's about interacting with and eventually gaining understanding of musical constructs, the language of music ... Just listening to classical music has been shown to improve math output. He can do all that in ballet. I've never seen one of those studies that shows convincing evidence of causation, only correlation and sometimes even the correlation is weak. For the ones that show correlation between music and math, perhaps people who have a natural predisposition towards math also have the same predisposition to musical concepts? There's no evidence that the music skills increased math skills so for all we know, people that have certain innate traits simply exceed naturally at both those pursuits. For the ones that show listening to music improves math output, there's no way to know if the music has any impact or if there are other factors at play. Perhaps the music just assists in relaxation and a relaxed person is better able to perform math tasks. If this is the case, anything that assists in relaxation would enable math output. I'm not against music education and learned to play several instruments myself. I enjoy and value music and think it has huge value. But I also am not convinced that any studies show that the music itself is the magic bullet; it's just as likely that people with certain strengths are successful at similar pursuits or the discipline involved in learning music is helpful in other pursuits.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 21, 2013 6:53:48 GMT -5
It is great to expose your kids. But, I think SOME parents try to often to put their kids into their own box versus letting them find their own natural talents and passions. My sons played instruments and had lessons. But, there is a point in time where they are either can truly make it their own and run with it or not. Neither of my sons have stuck with playing though now my 17 is trying to learn the bass (he had lessons years ago but didn't practice). However, DD loves the piano and clarinet. ANd, the real sign to me is does your child pick up and play the instrument for FUN without being told? If so, then I think there is an interest. But, if it becomes a battle of Go Practice, then after awhile, they either will or they won't and that is something that has to come from within. Yes, in the early stages, you do have to push them.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 21, 2013 6:54:44 GMT -5
And, the same with sports. There are some sports your child is simply more suited for and prefers to play. My oldest is passionate about football. And, my younger son and DD are absolutely on fire for Basketball.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 21, 2013 7:12:53 GMT -5
Learning music as a child has benefits beyond simple music. There are studies that prove that children who take a fair bit of music are better at math and critical reasoning. (I'm sure we have a correlation/causation thing here.) Achievement in sports is heralded as proof that you can actually work hard and can be part of a team. My son is more inclined to be an athlete - which is fine, I'm doing everything I can to support that. However, many of his friends are going to go to a performing arts middle school. They get to choose between an instrument and ballet. My husband has been insisting that if he goes to that middle school he MUST take ballet because it would make him a better athlete. Would it be so terrible if he learned the trumpet? Do you think sports has more value in a child's life than music? My parents "made me" do both. I was in music school for 7 yrs (learning to play two instruments, theory of music and many other things) and dance. If I had my way, I would do the same with my kids. Music and either swimming or soccer and definitely a karate. Since I don't believe "studies", I am not sold at all on the whole idea of "teamwork" learning when it comes to sports. I actually think the opposite. I think kids to get to be too competitive and too aggressive, so the whole "teamwork" thing wouldn't be a deciding factor for me at all. But either or, I think if nothing else, it has a great potential of teaching a kid some discipline. To me - that's priceless. BTW, I was never that great in either - music or dance.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 21, 2013 7:39:48 GMT -5
I think most of us just want well rounded children. I doubt any of my kids is going to be a professional athlete but they probably aren't going to be a professional musician either. It is all a HOBBY to be enjoyed as part of life and one's life experiences. So, that is the manner in which I approach this. Given our families and their background, plus the nature of each activity, my children are far more likely to end up being professional musicians than professional athletes. I guess the likelihood of my kids becoming coaches or PE teachers and them getting paid to play the piano at church might be even. But, all the ballet in the world won't get my son into MLS.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 21, 2013 8:05:23 GMT -5
I did music, dance, and sports. Consider yourself amwarned
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 8:24:00 GMT -5
Same here!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 8:46:15 GMT -5
I think sports can be very helpful when you get to adulthood. It creates a common background and lots of very good athletes are very good at other aspects of life too.
That said, I don't think ballet will create that common background....
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 21, 2013 8:48:32 GMT -5
For the ones that show correlation between music and math, perhaps people who have a natural predisposition towards math also have the same predisposition to musical concepts? There's no evidence that the music skills increased math skills so for all we know, people that have certain innate traits simply exceed naturally at both those pursuits. I'm not sure I buy this one, either. At college, there ARE always a few music/engineer majors. Math has always been a tougher subject for me (but I always was better/stronger in the sciences than math..) I did have some music geek friends in HS that did just fine with calculus, and some that only took the bare minimum of math classes because it was a bit of a chore.e I do have some students that won't be music majors in college but have excelled very nicely in music, (and could be music majors if there was more time for practice.) They are also in rocket club, science club, history club, and take chemistry as freshman. IOW, these kids are simply high achievers, period. Doesn't matter what they do. I've also spoken to them about getting burned out before they hit college. (And, so have their moms, for that matter.)
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 21, 2013 8:56:33 GMT -5
I think sports can be very helpful when you get to adulthood. It creates a common background and lots of very good athletes are very good at other aspects of life too. That said, I don't think ballet will create that common background.... So can music. At my university, there are two orchestras now, for non-music majors. When I went to school, there was just one. In my city, there's at least three different orchestras you can join as an adult without auditioning into. There's also several bands: swing/big band, jazz, klezmer, and bands that play normal band music (lots of Sousa marches, etc.). Even my church has a Mass band. One of my mentors (77, now give or take) was in a quartet with man who played viola until he passed away. He was 92 I think. That quartet rehearsed every Tuesday night from like 7-9 for years (I'm guessing close to a decade) at the old folks home.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 8:59:01 GMT -5
I think sports can be very helpful when you get to adulthood. It creates a common background and lots of very good athletes are very good at other aspects of life too. That said, I don't think ballet will create that common background.... So can music. At my university, there are two orchestras now, for non-music majors. When I went to school, there was just one. In my city, there's at least three different orchestras you can join as an adult without auditioning into. There's also several bands: swing/big band, jazz, klezmer, and bands that play normal band music (lots of Sousa marches, etc.). Even my church has a Mass band. One of my mentors (77, now give or take) was in a quartet with man who played viola until he passed away. He was 92 I think. That quartet rehearsed every Tuesday night from like 7-9 for years (I'm guessing close to a decade) at the old folks home. Music can, but it is much less likely to have that happen than to have it happen with sports. I did more of a music thing than a sports thing. And although there was one CFO that was in Uconn Marching band, so we had that in common and that helped me, my experience that going out with CFOs/Bankers/Bonding people/executives, etc, the conversation always gets to how their tennis/golf game is, not how their swing band is.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 21, 2013 9:04:38 GMT -5
No, but he'd understand rhythm and interpretation AND be more flexible and graceful at sports. Have either of you asked your son if he would even take ballet? That's a pretty stereotypical non-boy class, I would imagine. It is too late to ask him - his father already brainwashed him against learning an instrument. He was talking about learning the sax for the last 18 months, and in the last 6 weeks my husband squashed it. The ladies loved Clarence Clemmons
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 9:21:25 GMT -5
I thought they loved Cool J....
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 21, 2013 9:23:57 GMT -5
I thought they loved gay guys.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Nov 21, 2013 11:01:41 GMT -5
This is one reason why I am leaning towards home schooling. So many schools are cutting out music, arts, and physical activities. Our kids are going to start piano lessons at 6 and continue until at least 16 (this is what DH's family did and apparently it's not negotiable with him). And they have to find one organized physical activity to participate in as well (soccer, baseball, ballet, swimming, gymnastics, etc) - this was my requirement. We will address the "what ifs" as they come along, but this is the plan for now. Hopefully DD will start dance classes soon. We need to get her potty trained first.
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