cronewitch
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I identify as a post-menopausal childless cat lady and I vote.
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Post by cronewitch on Oct 31, 2013 13:13:08 GMT -5
I would talk to them both at the same time. Just say this isn't working out having you here. I need my home back by November 30.
Don't say you have been supporting them paying all the food, utilities and things or they might offer to kick in $20 a week. You don't want that you want them gone before you put up a Christmas Tree probably before Thanksgiving. A month is plenty of time to find a new couch to surf.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 31, 2013 13:14:39 GMT -5
Good luck!
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 31, 2013 13:55:02 GMT -5
Best of luck firefly. I would tell the cousin she needs to leave immediately as she has a place to go and tell sister she has one month to find a job. If you are willing to help her with a deposit then let her know that. Perhaps if she finds a job then she and the cousin could share an apartment...
This is why I don't invite people to stay with me (and when I say stay I don't mean visitors who have their own home elsewhere but people who ask to come and stay) because it can be a bitch getting them to ever leave. I had a friend who wanted to stay with me when she divorced her husband. I have a one bedroom apartment so not exactly a ton of space. I told her she could stay for one week on the pull out sofa in the living room. It is in my lease that if someone stays more than 7 nights they are considered to be a tenant and have to be added to the lease. That was an easy out for me... I felt kind of bad saying she could only stay a week but I had witnessed this friend take advantage of others a few times and I was not about to let that happen to me.
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scarlett81
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Post by scarlett81 on Oct 31, 2013 14:42:22 GMT -5
I had issues with BIL who we let move in to get back on his feet during break up with his baby mama as he was seriously depressed (not clinically, sad about the situation) and needed some help. What I assumed was a few weeks turned into month after month. It felt bad but eventually we just told him he had to move out by such and such date, we were suckers and I think gave him two more months? How many months we gave didn't really matter though b/c he did nothing to get moving until a few days prior to the deadline. <br><br>I suggest give sis a month, check on her progress weekly then a few days prior you may have to kick her to the next couch. BIL actually had the money to get his own place the whole time but was blowing through it. After living with us he ended up living with his parents for about another year before I think they kicked him out too and now he's back to supporting himself. It's all about the enabling. You have to realize that letting this go long term without them even trying to get a new plan isn't really helping them. <br><br>Cousin, little different b/c it sounds like she does have a job and is basically doing what she can. Just have to tell her you're sorry but you weren't planning for her to stay, aren't looking for a room-mate. Maybe you can help her find a room-mate? Place to live closer to the bus lines? But as it is you're just enabling her too, she may not even realize you want her out.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 31, 2013 14:52:13 GMT -5
When DH and I were first married we both worked FT and had a boarder from South America. She was not really a problem but after a year or so I got uncomfortable with the situation and told DH I wanted her to leave. It was very hard to do, but I felt my feelings about the situation were affecting my relationship with my DH and I was afraid if I did not put a stop to it we would end up divorced.
We asked her to leave, I am sure we gave her at least a month, she moved in with her boyfriend. She also was an immigrant, someone in her own family sponsored her but they did not want her to live with them. She is pretty successful - it has been about 18 years and our friends ran into her recently.
We had to serve a 5 day notice on relatives living in our rental property. It was the hardest thing I have ever lived through, and I am sure you will feel like relatives want you to keep the welcome mat out. But, if giving these people a place to stay was something they felt was a social responsibility they would offer them a place to stay in their own home. edit to add, at the time there were hard feelings, but DH said that it was not his parent's problem and we were not to bring it to family events. We were cordial and it has been 12 years or so - and DH and that brother are actually quite close again. Circumstances just conspired against them - they are beyond that now.
We made a MIL unit in our house so that if my in-laws need a place to go, they can live with us. I have already been asked if I was going to rent it out etc. The answer is no. If I let someone else in, I don't have the space for my in-laws. The person who said the only people you should let stay are the ones who are visiting and have a permanent residence elsewhere is spot on.
In our experience low income people who already qualify for social services have access to free legal advice and will let you know in short order if you violate housing rules. I would think about doing a 30-60 day notice in writing for DS, and pushing the cousin to go back to aunt's house before she is there long enough to establish residency.
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JustLurkin
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This is what you look like right now.
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Post by JustLurkin on Oct 31, 2013 17:02:12 GMT -5
mmmmm JustLurkin was mighty tasty!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 19:45:42 GMT -5
Firefly I think you are recently married so you have the perfect excuse, your big bad DH won't let them stay anymore. I'll bet you ANYTHING they would react better to that than you just telling them you've had enough.
Neither DH nor I ever "tell" the other one what to do but sometimes it is convenient to play good cop / bad cop.
And I second those who say don't bother with the other people's feelings (especially Later). No good deed goes unpunished, and they certainly aren't worried about yours, or your DH's.
MANY moons ago my ex and I took in our riding instructor. It was before we had kids. He was working far from home, had a wife and three kids several hours away. And a mistress right near us, but we didn't realize that at the time. He got fired from his job. He stayed with us for one month ... two months ... three months ... he had his kids over several times on weekends, we fed them all. Ex and I were in our early to mid 20s, we were totally disarmed by this situation. At that point we didn't even have one friend with a baby, let alone three kids!
One night it snowed, so the, um, guest, exH and I all had a cosy dinner together. Since ex and I had talked about this and agreed on it beforehand, during the cosy dinner we casually mentioned to JP that he couldn't stay much longer, he needed to make another plan.
He pushed his plate over, stomped to the guest room, packed, and left within 10 min. During a RAGING snowstorm. THANK GD!!! And then proceeded to tell anybody who would listen that we "kicked him out of our house during a snowstorm". We were SO hurt, but we learned a VERY valuable lesson. And we far preferred to be hurt and have him gone! Good riddance!!! It was hurtful to us that he misrepresented the situation. (We were young lol.) But he was GONE!!!
Good luck to you! They WILL fall on their feet, they will NOT be homeless, they will NOT starve. And as others have said, your first loyalty is to your husband (or at least it should be).
If you don't agree, you can always tell your husband to make other arrangements, and live with your sis, her baby, and your cousin. And support them all. Would you prefer that?
If not, you just do what you've got to do. No, it's not easy. And no, they will NOT be happy. But it goes quickly, and then you'll be alone with your husband, which is how it should be, especially since you are newlyweds.
ETA: You have a MIGHTY NICE husband!!! Not everybody would put up with that!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 19:56:23 GMT -5
PS I agree that your sis should try to make things work with her husband, but if she won't, maybe she and your cousin can live together? At least they could share expenses, and be out of your place.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 1, 2013 0:21:31 GMT -5
And, also, it isn't up to you to figure out their lives for them. You can certainly offer some advice or assistance or planning, but don't make THEIR problem into your problem. And, if you are working harder to figure out their lives for them than they are for themselves, then you are just going to make yourself crazy. Perhaps the cousin and your sis could live together, that might be a good idea.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Nov 1, 2013 6:43:29 GMT -5
I don't understand where it is the poster's place to give them a deposit for an apt. although I do agree with someone who earlier said 'why do we feel guilty or embarrassed when someone takes advantage of us and we try to get them to do the right thing'?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 1, 2013 6:46:56 GMT -5
It isn't. But, it might be an easier out. If you could rent an apt and pay the first and last months rent, drop them off and say goodbye and let them sink or swim. I am not advocating that but that could be one possible way to go to get them out. Yeah, it cost money but it might be a small price to pay for you sanity.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Nov 1, 2013 7:01:17 GMT -5
It's not her responsibility but it will be much easier to put them out if they have a place to go. Kicking out her sister is going to fundamentally change their relationship, and they will be family for the rest of their lives. At some point her sister may realize it was for the better, but if she kicks her out in the snowstorm with no place to go that makes the possibility much lower.
It is also a concession to the other relatives that are going to rise up to condemn her when she kicks them out. She will at least be able to show she did her best to help them and set them off to a good start on their own. She has posted in the past about how her culture is all about family supporting each other and how terrible people on this forum are for cutting off relatives. Now she has hit the point where she realizes it will never end, and she is being forced to put a stop to it. This is going to elicit the same reaction in her extended family that she had about us when she first read about it on this forum.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 1, 2013 7:28:25 GMT -5
Yes. And, there is a point where you have to cut people loose and let THEM figure out their own lives. YOu are too busy trying to figure out your own. But, of course, you want to help your sister or family. Who doesn't? But you can truly only help people who are at some point willing to help themselves. It is time for them to start helping themselves, or not. But either way it needs to be on them and not her. Unfortunately once you are in the position of subsidizing someone else, as soon as you stop doing it, you are going to be painted as an "uncaring", "selfish" person. That is just how the minds of the Entitled work.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Nov 1, 2013 7:40:28 GMT -5
Count me in among those saying that it is very unlikely no feelings will be hurt. Expect it. They have everything to lose. They need you to relent. Expect and prepare for any tactic to that end. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised, but if you relent, they keep living with you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2013 7:47:46 GMT -5
They keep living with you and your husband does not.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2013 7:52:53 GMT -5
As a landlord myself, good luck with that. I don't rent to anyone that doesn't have a job, and has had said job, for a long time as well being able to afford my rent. My calculations is 3X gross. So if she rents a place that costs 800 a month, she needs to be grossing 2400 for me to rent to her.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2013 7:54:23 GMT -5
Isn't there a thread about karma? Perfect.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 1, 2013 7:55:31 GMT -5
Oh well crap. Because my son is a HS Senior without a clue. He hasn't "decided" what he wants to do post HS. I told him that we soon need to come up with a plan. Otherwise, if he wasn't going to college or not out getting a FT job, then I would take him downtown to Joe Blow apts, pay the first and last month rent and hand him the keys and say Good Luck!
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Spellbound454
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"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Nov 1, 2013 7:56:50 GMT -5
Only if you make a big performance over it. Just say with big sad eyes....You know I love having you guys here.... but you do realise you can't stay here indefinitely. You are my sister and I love you dearly.... but Hubby and I are looking forward to getting back to normal. (Leave it for a bit for the penny to drop then.....) I'll help you if you want to look around for a permanent place...or maybe you could move in together. If they start kicking off..... remind them that it was never a permanent arrangement and that you have bent over backwards to help them this far.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Nov 1, 2013 9:24:50 GMT -5
I think firefly had posted to the effect that she had moved her sister in withou her husband's agreement, so this is coming back to haunt her now. Firefly, don't let this go on. Tell your sister and cousin that they need to be out by the end of November. No negotiations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2013 9:28:05 GMT -5
Give them a Thanksgiving leftovers doggie bag!
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Nov 1, 2013 9:34:14 GMT -5
I really like the idea of finding out who the cousin's sponsor is and sending her back to her sponsor. It is not worth wrecking your marriage when there are other family members that have assumed legal responsibility.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Nov 1, 2013 13:43:21 GMT -5
...:::"I think firefly had posted to the effect that she had moved her sister in withou her husband's agreement, so this is coming back to haunt her now.":::...
Oooooh I don't remember this... Seems to me though that either the OP tries to get the relatives out on her terms, or her DH will do it on his terms!
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Firefly
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Post by Firefly on Nov 1, 2013 14:06:02 GMT -5
So funny thing happened yesterday, I told my cousin I was going out to do my nails asked if she wanted to go. I was hoping to tell her it's time for her to go back to her aunts house cuz there's just too many people in my place. Anyway the girl tells me she doesn't have money for pedicure which irritated me a little and prompted me to ask wth she does with her paychecks. Apparently, she has been saving every penny for deposit and some furniture and was planning to rent before December. She said she asked sis to rent 2 bedroom with her but sis already said no. So I told her I will take her apartment shopping so she can at least put in the application and see what's available while she continues to save.
Talked to sis last night and she says doesn't really like cousin and doesn't want to share and apartment with her. And asked when I was going to tell her to go back to her aunts. Nothing about a plan to move on her own. She is very young and immature so I figured I will talk to mom first and see what she suggests before giving her any deadline. But at least one person is out and she will stay with her aunt or my brother when hubby is here and she can come back when he is on the road.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Nov 1, 2013 15:40:43 GMT -5
That is excellent news on the cousin!
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Nov 1, 2013 16:27:42 GMT -5
...:::"But at least one person is out and she will stay with her aunt or my brother when hubby is here and she can come back when he is on the road.":::...
I'm trying to decide how I would feel about this if I knew a relative of DW's who was mooching off us, and who I was totally opposed to moving in, was essentially living in my house behind my back - but not, because I knew about it. Its not that I am not sympathetic to people being down. I'd just be more peeved at DW for blatantly disregarding my feelings on the matter. To me it says "I didn't get the outcome I wanted by playing fair, so I'm just going to wait until you aren't around, and get what I want then." The idea that the person would move out, and then move BACK once I'd left would probably be especially insulting.
Sorry, but its just completely incompatible with a thread entitled "help me get these people out".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2013 9:06:38 GMT -5
So funny thing happened yesterday, I told my cousin I was going out to do my nails asked if she wanted to go. I was hoping to tell her it's time for her to go back to her aunts house cuz there's just too many people in my place. Anyway the girl tells me she doesn't have money for pedicure which irritated me a little and prompted me to ask wth she does with her paychecks. Apparently, she has been saving every penny for deposit and some furniture and was planning to rent before December. She said she asked sis to rent 2 bedroom with her but sis already said no. So I told her I will take her apartment shopping so she can at least put in the application and see what's available while she continues to save. Talked to sis last night and she says doesn't really like cousin and doesn't want to share and apartment with her. And asked when I was going to tell her to go back to her aunts. Nothing about a plan to move on her own. She is very young and immature so I figured I will talk to mom first and see what she suggests before giving her any deadline. But at least one person is out and she will stay with her aunt or my brother when hubby is here and she can come back when he is on the road. You totally missed the opportunity there. You need to tell her it's not about like/not like, its about her finding a situation where she and her husband own the responsibility for their support & work to afford it. I would have also said 'it is not my responsibility to support you and your child, much as I love you both'. 'You and your DH need to come up with your plan that does not rely on me paying your rent and groceries.' Then your next convo could be 'what is your plan? i really need my home back for me and my DH by Thanksgiving'.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 2, 2013 9:56:45 GMT -5
The problem, is OP that you are making all sorts of excuses for your sister. It doesn't matter how immature she is or isn't
Your sister has CHOSEN an adult life, getting married and having a child. Start treating her like an adult. By making excuses, you are also enabling your sister.
My parents were hard asses, some would say to a fault. They had a saying "If you want to play, be prepared to pay."
I also knew that if I chose to have sex and get pregnant, they would have ushered me right out the door, even if I was younger than 18.
Now, I'm not smart enough to have a STEM degree, but I was smart enough to realize it was in my best interest, as a teen, to not have sex.
I'm also still not impressed that you CONTINUE to put the desire of your sister over the needs of your husband. (By your continual farting around with the situation.)
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 2, 2013 11:40:01 GMT -5
how do you tell someone to move out without hurting their feelings anyway?
You probably can't. What's more important: not hurting their feelings or getting them out? They are not demonstrating any sensitivity towards your feelings.
To both, "I'm sorry, this was not meant to be a long term thing. You will have to find another arrangement before (date)" And don't make the date too far away.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Nov 2, 2013 12:25:37 GMT -5
Nice table!
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