"Christian" couple leaves anti-gay rant instead of tip

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 9:31:14 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:19:21 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Heh.  No, he wasn't gay and hiding his feelings, Archie.  I've known this guy for nearly 20 years, and I know his mother.  He and his wife went to high school together.  He's not gay, and he's never been gay.  He's not the only guy I know who, by virtue of no more than mannerisms, or toneare'oice, or physical appearance, has been mistaken for something they're not - in both directions.

To ask me if someone else is gay is, as I see it, revolting - yes.  If you want to know if someone is gay, ask that someone.  Have the guts to face the person you've made some stupid decision about.  Don't ask me about someone else.

Your post reminds me of a friend of mine who moved here too at the request of our employer.  

My friend, a Roman Catholic, went to a local social event.  One woman she had just met for the first time asked my friend what church she attended.  When my friend responded with the name of a local Catholic church, the woman replied "Oh.  So you aren't Christian."

Yep.  There is some gross ignorance out there.  One wonders where these people have been for the last century!

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2013 9:29:07 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:23:21 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

people are not allowed to ask you about someone else.  What if someone asked you about someone else's job, or family, or schooling, or color of their car?   Are those revolting questions to?

I'm not into gossip, Archie.  YMMV.  If someone wants to know about a personal aspect of another's life, they need to ask the person living that life.  I can assure you, I'm not going to discuss it.  I think you realize someone's sexual orientation is not the same as the color of someone's car.

Someone's sexuality is different than the color of someone's car, but is it that different?   Is it so taboo and disgusting for someone to be gay, though that just posing the question is revolting?

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 9:32:48 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:29:07 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm not into gossip, Archie.  YMMV.  If someone wants to know about a personal aspect of another's life, they need to ask the person living that life.  I can assure you, I'm not going to discuss it.  I think you realize someone's sexual orientation is not the same as the color of someone's car.

Someone's sexuality is different than the color of someone's car, but is it that different?   Is it so taboo and disgusting for someone to be gay, though that just posing the question is revolting?

I don't care, personally, what someone's sexual orientation might be.  Asking that person, if you feel you really NEED to know, is up to you.  Asking me, on the other hand, about someone else's sexual orientation will get you nothing but a cold stare.  It's not my business, is it?  It doesn't concern me, does it?  I don't live in that particular corpus.  I live in my own.  I know about me and can speak to that issue.  I cannot, and will not, speak to personal issues regarding another person.  As I said, YMMV.  In other words, Archie, it's not posing the question that's revolting.  It's to whom the question was posed (if it was posed to me about someone else).

[Tennesseer]

Oct 29, 2013 9:32:48 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:29:07 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm not into gossip, Archie.  YMMV.  If someone wants to know about a personal aspect of another's life, they need to ask the person living that life.  I can assure you, I'm not going to discuss it.  I think you realize someone's sexual orientation is not the same as the color of someone's car.

Someone's sexuality is different than the color of someone's car, but is it that different?   Is it so taboo and disgusting for someone to be gay, though that just posing the question is revolting?

What ìf the person has not come 'out' to their family?  What ìf the person asking ìs a known blabbermouth?

Do you believe it is the right of the gay person to let others know of his/her sexual orientation?  Or do they have no rights as it pertains to something so personal?

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2013 9:37:04 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:32:48 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Someone's sexuality is different than the color of someone's car, but is it that different?   Is it so taboo and disgusting for someone to be gay, though that just posing the question is revolting?

I don't care, personally, what someone's sexual orientation might be.  Asking that person, if you feel you really NEED to know, is up to you.  Asking me, on the other hand, about someone else's sexual orientation will get you nothing but a cold stare.  It's not my business, is it?  It doesn't concern me, does it?  I don't live in that particular corpus.  I live in my own.  I know about me and can speak to that issue.  I cannot, and will not, speak to personal issues regarding another person.  As I said, YMMV.  In other words, Archie, it's not posing the question that's revolting.  It's to whom the question was posed (if it was posed to me about someone else).

So is someone asking you about another person's car color revolting?

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2013 9:39:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:32:48 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Someone's sexuality is different than the color of someone's car, but is it that different?   Is it so taboo and disgusting for someone to be gay, though that just posing the question is revolting?

What ìf the person has not come 'out' to their family?  What ìf the person asking ìs a known blabbermouth?

Do you believe it is the right of the gay person to let others know of his/her sexual orientation?  Or do they have no rights as it pertains to something so personal?

Does someone have right as to how other people see them?  no.  

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 9:39:31 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:37:04 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I don't care, personally, what someone's sexual orientation might be.  Asking that person, if you feel you really NEED to know, is up to you.  Asking me, on the other hand, about someone else's sexual orientation will get you nothing but a cold stare.  It's not my business, is it?  It doesn't concern me, does it?  I don't live in that particular corpus.  I live in my own.  I know about me and can speak to that issue.  I cannot, and will not, speak to personal issues regarding another person.  As I said, YMMV.  In other words, Archie, it's not posing the question that's revolting.  It's to whom the question was posed (if it was posed to me about someone else).

So is someone asking you about another person's car color revolting?

Is another person's car color a personal aspect of their lives?  No, it isn't.  Therefore, my answer would be "no".

Now, find someone else with whom to play your games, Archie.  I've got other things to do.

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2013 9:41:30 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:39:31 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

So is someone asking you about another person's car color revolting?

Is another person's car color a personal aspect of their lives?  No, it isn't.  Therefore, my answer would be "no".

Now, find someone else with whom to play your games, Archie.  I've got other things to do.

You never like to talk to me..  I am starting to take it personally....

[Deleted]

I do get what Arch is saying. 

son told me just yesterday that when he was working this summer a 17/18 year old asked him if he had a girlfriend, and when son (will be 15 this week) said no, the kid asked, what? Are you gay? 

I immediately said Why did he ask that? ... Which I realized right away gave the impression I was thinking there was something wrong with being gay. I had meant why ask a 14 year old that just because he didn't have a girlfriend...  

I tried to explain to son what I meant,  but turned out he had already answered the guy with a pretty interesting response. He held up his hand and said, nah, looks like I'm straight and then explained the concept of dimorphic traits (which he actually does not take seriously, but which shot down the opposition's small mind kind of quick). 

[Tennesseer]

Oct 29, 2013 9:41:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:39:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

What andthe person has not come 'out' to their family?  What ìf the person asking ìs a known blabbermouth?

Do you believe it is the right of the gay person to let others know of his/her sexual orientation?  Or do they have no rights as it pertains to something so personal?

Does someone have right as to what other people think of them?  no.  

That ìs not what I asked.  Do you believe a gay person has the right to determine for themselves when and if they let others know of their sexual orientation?  Not everyone is as open and liberal in our country as you are Archie.

keep in mind-the majority of states in our country do not have laws protecting folks' sexual orientation in matters of employment and housing.

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2013 9:39:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:32:48 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Someone's sexuality is different than the color of someone's car, but is it that different?   Is it so taboo and disgusting for someone to be gay, though that just posing the question is revolting?

What ìf the person has not come 'out' to their family?  What ìf the person asking ìs a known blabbermouth?

Do you believe it is the right of the gay person to let others know of his/her sexual orientation?  Or do they have no rights as it pertains to something so personal?

I do see you point in some ways.   For instance, If my sister told me in confidence that she was gay but didn't want everyone to know yet.     If someone then asked me, "Is your sister gay?" I would not feel it to be appropriate to say yes." 


But if someone asked me, "is that dude (friend, acquaintance, guy down the street, etc) gay? then I see no issue commenting on it as I would comment on any other topic.   "Yes, I think he is.   Last I heard he was dating a guy from school."  or "I don't think so, but I don't really know."

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2013 9:46:27 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:41:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Does someone have right as to what other people think of them?  no.  

That ìs not what I asked.  Do you believe a gay person has the right to determine for themselves when and if they let others know of their sexual orientation?  Not everyone is as open and liberal in our country as you are Archie.

keep in mind-the majority of states in our country do not have laws protecting folks' sexual orientation in matters of employment and housing.

If someone wants to keep their sexual orientation to themselves, that is fine.   

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 9:45:41 GMT -5 oped said:

I do get what Arch is saying. 

son told me just yesterday that when he was working this summer a 17/18 year old asked him if he had a girlfriend, and when son (will be 15 this week) said no, the kid asked, what? Are you gay? 

I immediately said Why did he ask that? ... Which I realized right away gave the impression I was thinking there was something wrong with being gay. I had meant why ask a 14 year old that just because he didn't have a girlfriend...  

I tried to explain to son what I meant,  but turned out he had already answered the guy with a pretty interesting response. He held up his hand and said, nah, looks like I'm straight and then explained the concept of dimorphic traits (which he actually does not take seriously, but which shot down the opposition's small mind kind of quick). 

Conversations between kids that age can be ... interesting.  At least, the kid had the decency to ask your son instead of asking someone else whether your son is gay.  Had he, instead, decided to ask someone else (a casual friend of your son, perhaps) whether your son was gay, would you like to consider the rumors that might have started?  Nothing kids like better than the opportunity to engage in gossipy rhetoric with others who enjoy that sort of thing.  Pretty soon, the rumor grows and it may, or may not be the case.  Nobody wants to be said to be something they're not.  That something doesn't have to be a bad thing.  If it isn't true of you, you'd probably rather not have it circulating, I'd think, even if it has no negative connotation.  It isn't true, and it isn't you.

[Deleted]

And isn't that part of the point? Why is it such a big deal we have to shut up about it and be wary of the rumor? 

So every 14 year old should have a girlfriend now just so people don't get the idea to ask if they are gay? Or spread a rumor?

Maybe i've been out of the loop too long. 

I honestly think we are coming up on a generation who just won't give a shit, honestly...  

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 10:03:42 GMT -5 oped said:

And isn't that part of the point? Why is it such a big deal we have to shut up about it and be wary of the rumor? 

So every 14 year old should have a girlfriend now just so people don't get the idea to ask if they are gay? Or spread a rumor?

Maybe i've been out of the loop too long. 

I honestly think we are coming up on a generation who just won't give a shit, honestly...  

The older kid said what he did, in all probability, to "get at" your son - to get a reaction.  He wasn't really asking if your son is "gay".  He was just trying to get a "dig" in, IMO.

I don't think we do have to "shut up about it".  For me, I won't be talking about another's personal life.  I won't be talking about another's sexual orientation unless that person chooses to discuss it with me.  I'm damned well not going to be discussing someone else's personal life with a third person.

People, I think, are wary of rumors for good reason.  Have you seen the news about the young people who have taken their own lives because of rumors?  Have you ever seen someone who had to leave a workplace because of rumors circulating that were untrue?  I have.  It's not a pretty picture.

[Value Buy]

Oct 28, 2013 18:38:48 GMT -5 oped said:

When was being gay illegal? 

you are kidding, right?

Being gay was not illegal, but the consensual acts sure were.

[Deleted]

Generation Honey Boo Boo Badger.

[Tennesseer]

ArchietheDragon - I would say know your 'question asker' and the human subject of your asker very well before you respond.

For example:  my neighbors across the street are two women who have been life partners for over 20 years.  One of the two women works for the federal government.  Every couple of years these government employees' personal lives are reviewed by some government department looking for who knows what (possibly being blackmailed, committing government fraud?).

Apparently my neighbor gave my name (as a neighbor) to be possibly interviewed.  I was interviewed.  Now I know the sexual orientation of my neighbors as they told me years ago.  But when the goverment interviewer asked me vague questions referring to her/their sexual orientation, I offered vague answers.  

As I did not know ahead of time I would be interviewed, let alone the reason why, I wasn't going to be very open about that area of their lives.  But I provided enough information to the interviewer I was aware of the neighbor's sexual orientation and I didn't know of any type of possible blackmail or financial gain activity going on with the neighbor.

Later that day when my neighbor arrived home, I told her about the interview and the questions including the inferred sexual orientation ones.  She laughed and said she outed herself years sgo to her employer so answering any future interviews about her orientation would be fine.

[kittensaver]

Oct 29, 2013 9:51:51 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:46:27 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

That ìs not what I asked.  Do you believe a gay person has the right to determine for themselves when and if they let others know of their sexual orientation?  Not everyone is as open and liberal in our country as you are Archie.

keep in mind-the majority of states in our country do not have laws protecting folks' sexual orientation in matters of employment and housing.

If someone wants to keep their sexual orientation to themselves, that is fine.   

I for one look forward to the day in this country when one's sexual orientation is a non-issue. Especially in housing, employment, education and other life areas where prejudice and discrimination are what hold people back from reaching their potential. And God knows our country and our society really, really need people who participate in their lives and their communities at their full potential. Read all of the "useless sucking leaches" threads on this board if you don't understand what I'm talking about.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 29, 2013 10:14:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 28, 2013 18:38:48 GMT -5 oped said:

When was being gay illegal? 

you are kidding, right?

Being gay was not illegal, but the consensual acts sure were.

You are a little late to the ball here VB.

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2013 10:14:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

ArchietheDragon - I would say know your 'question asker' and the human subject of your asker very well before you respond.

For example:  my neighbors across the street are two women who have been life partners for over 20 years.  One of the two women works for the federal government.  Every couple of years these government employees' personal lives are reviewed by some government department looking for who knows what (possibly being blackmailed, committing government fraud?).

Apparently my neighbor gave my name (as a neighbor) to be possibly interviewed.  I was interviewed.  Now I know the sexual orientation of my neighbors as they told me years ago.  But when the goverment interviewer asked me vague questions referring to her/their sexual orientation, I offered vague answers.  

As I did not know ahead of time I would be interviewed, let alone the reason why, I wasn't going to be very open about that area of their lives.  But I provided enough information to the interviewer I was aware of the neighbor's sexual orientation and I didn't know of any type of possible blackmail or financial gain activity going on with the neighbor.

Later that day when my neighbor arrived home, I told her about the interview and the questions including the inferred sexual orientation ones.  She laughed and said she outed herself years sgo to her employer so answering any future interviews about her orientation would be fine.

I agree with that.   If you are talking to a redneck asshole who is has a list of people he is asking you if they are gay or not and he wants their address and to know when they are likely to be home, I would probably talk to that guy about the baseball game instead.  And have a few beers with him.   Because he sounds like fun to hang out with. 

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 10:15:55 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Oct 29, 2013 9:51:51 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

If someone wants to keep their sexual orientation to themselves, that is fine.   

I for one look forward to the day in this country when one's sexual orientation is a non-issue. Especially in housing, employment, education and other life areas where prejudice and discrimination are what hold people back from reaching their potential. And God knows our country and our society really, really need people who participate in their lives and their communities at their full potential. Read all of the "useless sucking leaches" threads on this board if you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Sexual orientation, and any other entirely personal aspect of someone's life, is a non-issue to me now, witchykitten.  I have no clue why it would be of interest to anyone other than that person, and anyone close to them (family and very close friends).  Even then, it might not be particularly relevant to all.  Our personal lives belong to us, as far as I'm concerned, and are nobody else's affair unless it affects that person directly.  People should have some privacy, in my eyes.

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 10:16:53 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 29, 2013 10:14:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

you are kidding, right?

Being gay was not illegal, but the consensual acts sure were.

You are a little late to the ball here VB.

I had to chuckle, too, Tennesseer.  How often has that question been answered now? 

[kittensaver]

Oct 29, 2013 10:21:56 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 29, 2013 10:15:55 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

I for one look forward to the day in this country when one's sexual orientation is a non-issue. Especially in housing, employment, education and other life areas where prejudice and discrimination are what hold people back from reaching their potential. And God knows our country and our society really, really need people who participate in their lives and their communities at their full potential. Read all of the "useless sucking leaches" threads on this board if you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Sexual orientation, and any other entirely personal aspect of someone's life, is a non-issue to me now, witchykitten.  I have no clue why it would be of interest to anyone other than that person, and anyone close to them (family and very close friends).  Even then, it might not be particularly relevant to all.  Our personal lives belong to us, as far as I'm concerned, and are nobody else's affair unless it affects that person directly.  People should have some privacy, in my eyes.

It is to me too, mmhmm, but it CLEARLY is not to a WHOLE lot of other folks, some of them in positions of power, unfortunately.

To me, the only time one's sexual orientation should come up is if one or both of the two parties might be interested in a personal relationship with the other and are trying to determine if the other party is available for such a relationship. Then you really DO need to know the orientation of the other. But that - IMO - is also only between those two, and not a subject of general conversation.

[Value Buy]

Got a question for everyone.
Maybe several.....
Yes, the couple was judgmental and wrong.
Ten years ago or so, a ten percent tip was generally acceptable.
Today it is between fifteen and up to what, twenty percent for exceptionable service?

If the couple left a ten cent tip with the note, is that acceptable?
If they left five percent with a note, is that acceptable?
If they left ten percent with a note, is that acceptable?
If they left fifteen percent with a note is that acceptable?

Or, were they just supposed not to leave a note?

I understand being gay is not a choice.
Does anyone think it would be correct for the couple to leave a tip, and a message at the cash register for the manager/owner that they will no longer frequent that establishment due to homosexual attendant(s)?

Or are the Christians just damned here for general beliefs by our board members, whether the customers are following their beliefs, right or wrong?
Myself, I think they were cheapskates just trying to think of a reason for not stiffing a server.

Just trying to play devil's advocate here......

[Value Buy]

Oct 29, 2013 10:22:34 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 29, 2013 10:16:53 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

You are a little late to the ball here VB.

I had to chuckle, too, Tennesseer.  How often has that question been answered now? 

I hate that when this happens.
Sometimes I am in a hurry, have pages of a thread to cover, with little time to read all the pages.......and on multiple threads.....
Sorry.

[mmhmm]

I believe I said earlier, Value Buy, if the couple didn't want to be served by someone they thought to be a homosexual, they had the option to discuss it with the management and leave the premises.  They can believe as they wish.  They should not, in my opinion, feel free to utilize the services of another (which the couple themselves said were excellently provided), then denigrate the individual who served them with a nasty note.  The tip, to me, is a secondary issue.  No tip is ever required.

[kittensaver]

Oct 29, 2013 10:29:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Got a question for everyone.
Maybe several.....
Yes, the couple was judgmental and wrong.
Ten years ago or so, a ten percent tip was generally acceptable.
Today it is between fifteen and up to what, twenty percent for exceptionable service?

If the couple left a ten cent tip with the note, is that acceptable?
If they left five percent with a note, is that acceptable?
If they left ten percent with a note, is that acceptable?
If they left fifteen percent with a note is that acceptable?

Or, were they just supposed not to leave a note?

I understand being gay is not a choice.
Does anyone think it would be correct for the couple to leave a tip, and a message at the cash register for the manager/owner that they will no longer frequent that establishment due to homosexual attendant(s)?

Or are the Christians just damned here for general beliefs by our board members, whether the customers are following their beliefs, right or wrong?
Myself, I think they were cheapskates just trying to think of a reason for not stiffing a server.

Just trying to play devil's advocate here......

Again? Really? Okay, so here you go:

Christians have an absolute right to believe what they want. They also have an absolute right to impose their beliefs and views on others like them who follow their belief system. THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME INTO A PLURALISTIC, NON-SECTARIAN SOCIETY AND IMPOSE THEIR BELIEFS ON OTHERS WHO DO NOT THINK, ACT OR BELIEVE LIKE THEY DO.

Really - what's so hard to understand? ? ?

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2013 10:32:05 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 29, 2013 10:22:34 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I had to chuckle, too, Tennesseer.  How often has that question been answered now? 

I hate that when this happens.
Sometimes I am in a hurry, have pages of a thread to cover, with little time to read all the pages.......and on multiple threads.....
Sorry.

LOL!  No problem, Value Buy.  We've all done it.  It's just funny when it happens again, and again, and again.  It ain't just you! 

[Tennesseer]

VB-the couple enjoyed the service. They said so. Bu they decided to punish their server for being gay by leaving no monetary tip.

The only 'tip' the couple offered him was he better change his sexual orientation for future tips from them.