dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 7, 2014 19:30:43 GMT -5
The expected spin on the CBO report. Guess what? Those folks that quit those jobs get replaced by others. It's not jobs we are losing people.
As for Pelosi's 500 million? So she's an idiot politician. No shortage there. But lest we forget....the 4.2 million that did lose their jobs in the last months of BushCo., stretching into the first 3 months of 2009, were due to the Crash of BushCo. policies and deregulation imploding the mortgage market as the tax cuts for the job creators didn't work diddly squat.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 7, 2014 22:39:57 GMT -5
The full transcript of that press briefing makes cringeworthy reading, it really does. Talk about not selling product in Peoria. yeah. sad. seriously. i would much rather that she question the bs than try to sculpt it into something praiseworthy.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 8, 2014 10:50:44 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 8, 2014 11:21:31 GMT -5
i never said Democrats weren't stupid. in fact, i have OFTEN pointed out that Obama is economically illiterate. he relies on "experts" to tell him stuff that is just not true. in this case, Carney fails to recognize the meaning of "equivalent". edit: thanks for answering the question. i would never have guessed that the Democrats were their own worst enemy on this subject. i had ONLY read this stuff on the right wing sites before you guys posted this stuff.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 8, 2014 11:21:34 GMT -5
Here's another take on the issue: "The CBO report notes that the reduction in labor “stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses’ demand for labor.” People will choose to work less because of a variety of new factors to consider. For instance, some will retire early since they will no longer have to rely on their employer for insurance. Others will choose to work less because more work income would make them eligible for less in Obamacare subsidies. Since these workers will be choosing to work less, the reduction in labor will not register as a rise in “unemployment” figures, which only count workers who are actively looking for work. The budget office also noted that its estimate of the law’s impact on the labor market is “subject to substantial uncertainty.” White House spokesman Jay Carney said in a statement that “claims that the Affordable Care Act hurts jobs are simply belied by the facts in the CBO report.” “Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families,” Carney said. “At the beginning of this year, we noted that as part of this new day in health care, Americans would no longer be trapped in a job just to provide coverage for their families, and would have the opportunity to pursue their dreams.” CBS News
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 8, 2014 11:25:58 GMT -5
Here's another take on the issue: "The CBO report notes that the reduction in labor “stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses’ demand for labor.” People will choose to work less because of a variety of new factors to consider. For instance, some will retire early since they will no longer have to rely on their employer for insurance. Others will choose to work less because more work income would make them eligible for less in Obamacare subsidies. Since these workers will be choosing to work less, the reduction in labor will not register as a rise in “unemployment” figures, which only count workers who are actively looking for work. The budget office also noted that its estimate of the law’s impact on the labor market is “subject to substantial uncertainty.” White House spokesman Jay Carney said in a statement that “claims that the Affordable Care Act hurts jobs are simply belied by the facts in the CBO report.” “Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families,” Carney said. “At the beginning of this year, we noted that as part of this new day in health care, Americans would no longer be trapped in a job just to provide coverage for their families, and would have the opportunity to pursue their dreams.” CBS Newsprecisely. my read on this is that people who are exposed to the ACA will reduce labor SUPPLY, which will have a whole host of LABOR benefits: it SHOULD drive down unemployment, and drive up wages, and benefits. this SHOULD be a net POSITIVE for the treasury. from a corporate standpoint, the opposite is true. which is, i posit, why this is creating such a hue and cry. it shows who is in charge. if labor was in charge, there would be expressions of joy throughout the "liberal" media.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 8, 2014 11:30:21 GMT -5
I'm always suspicious when I see one sentence, or thought, given credence when a whole speech was made. There's always more said than the partisans would like folks to know. It's really a shame when people don't follow up on some of this spun nonsense and really take a look at both sides. I don't like Obamacare either, but I'm not so narrow-minded as to refuse to look at all sides of an issue - including Obamacare. I still don't like it, but I'm not about to run blind.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 8, 2014 12:32:41 GMT -5
I'm always suspicious when I see one sentence, or thought, given credence when a whole speech was made. There's always more said than the partisans would like folks to know. It's really a shame when people don't follow up on some of this spun nonsense and really take a look at both sides. I don't like Obamacare either, but I'm not so narrow-minded as to refuse to look at all sides of an issue - including Obamacare. I still don't like it, but I'm not about to run blind. moreover, if you are like me, you know the importance of first steps. even if the first step is a stumble- it is a stumble in the right direction. if the GOP doesn't like it, they should fix it. but for the love of GOD, don't start from scratch. it took 50 years to get modest reform.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 8, 2014 12:35:05 GMT -5
I'm always suspicious when I see one sentence, or thought, given credence when a whole speech was made. There's always more said than the partisans would like folks to know. It's really a shame when people don't follow up on some of this spun nonsense and really take a look at both sides. I don't like Obamacare either, but I'm not so narrow-minded as to refuse to look at all sides of an issue - including Obamacare. I still don't like it, but I'm not about to run blind. moreover, if you are like me, you know the importance of first steps. even if the first step is a stumble- it is a stumble in the right direction. if the GOP doesn't like it, they should fix it. but for the love of GOD, don't start from scratch. it took 50 years to get modest reform. Absolutely agree, dj. While I don't like the mess that was passed and is called "Obamacare", it's a step that needs to be taken to get where we need to be. It could have been one whale of a lot better than it is were it not for the partisan infighting. However, that's our lot in life at the moment, I fear. Our fearless leaders would rather argue than accomplish.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 8, 2014 14:26:51 GMT -5
www.lohud.com/usatoday/article/5265431For 3 million, 'affordable' health care might not be
The lure used to get uninsured Americans to sign up for health law coverage was the promise of generous premium subsidies.
The promise comes with a catch for almost 3 million people earning three to four times the federal poverty rate: They may have to pay up to 9.5% of their income toward that premium before the government subsidy kicks in. That could take a substantial bite from their budgets - potentially as much as $600 a month for a family of three earning $58,590 to $78,120.
Half of American families spent 3.1% or less of their income on health care before the law took effect - and those who have job-based coverage generally spend less than those who buy their own insurance, studies by Linda Blumberg at the Urban Institute show.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 8, 2014 14:44:14 GMT -5
www.lohud.com/usatoday/article/5265431For 3 million, 'affordable' health care might not be
The lure used to get uninsured Americans to sign up for health law coverage was the promise of generous premium subsidies.
The promise comes with a catch for almost 3 million people earning three to four times the federal poverty rate: They may have to pay up to 9.5% of their income toward that premium before the government subsidy kicks in. That could take a substantial bite from their budgets - potentially as much as $600 a month for a family of three earning $58,590 to $78,120.
Half of American families spent 3.1% or less of their income on health care before the law took effect - and those who have job-based coverage generally spend less than those who buy their own insurance, studies by Linda Blumberg at the Urban Institute show.
it was affordable for you, wp, was it not?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 8, 2014 15:19:30 GMT -5
When dealing with a populace where 17% think Obama is a Hitler/Islamofascist/socialist/commie who is destroying America later today, even baby steps are progress while we wait for the adults on the R side of the aisle to get tired of their whiny babies and give them a timeout.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Feb 10, 2014 8:17:11 GMT -5
That's honestly a very shabby line of argument.
The unreformed healthcare system was satisfactory to upwards of 80% of poll respondents. Yet you're as firm as anybody in your support of a reform that has only exacerbated all the old problems and added some new ones.
You claim it's a 'first step.' That's only a historical accident, in the sense that any development must be the first step of some new historical phenomenon, the thesis to some countervailing antithesis. If we have merely swapped one disadvantaged population in the healthcare market for another one (which is what I see Obamacare as doing), and especially if the new population is larger than the old one, that isn't a first step forwards. It's a misstep.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2014 11:00:25 GMT -5
That's honestly a very shabby line of argument.
no, it really wasn't. if he had responded, you would have had the opportunity to witness that i was going somewhere with that. until you see where i was going, you cannot possibly assess what sort of a "line of argument" it was, dude.
The unreformed healthcare system was satisfactory to upwards of 80% of poll respondents. Yet you're as firm as anybody in your support of a reform that has only exacerbated all the old problems and added some new ones.
You claim it's a 'first step.' That's only a historical accident, in the sense that any development must be the first step of some new historical phenomenon, the thesis to some countervailing antithesis. If we have merely swapped one disadvantaged population in the healthcare market for another one (which is what I see Obamacare as doing), and especially if the new population is larger than the old one, that isn't a first step forwards. It's a misstep.
i accept your conditional statement. we will see how the how the "ifs" play out.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 10, 2014 11:15:34 GMT -5
yes. at my 2013 salary of 24k i got half of it subsidized to make it affordable. my portion was around 10% of my take home pay. my rent is about 40%. good thing my new job that pays 40k (still near poverty in my area ) provides Health Insurance or I don't know if if the adjusted cost due to my meteoric rise in salary would make it affordable still. plus i was just pointing out what the ramifications of it are on the middle class. not good, imho.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2014 11:23:51 GMT -5
yes. at my 2013 salary of 24k i got half of it subsidized to make it affordable. that is precisely my point. those that get a subsidy will find it very affordable. we shall see on whose backs that system rests.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 10, 2014 11:26:11 GMT -5
honestly, now that I have a real job that is somewhat stable (NYS union), I could care less about health insurance. what i think about now is 14 years and out. human nature just reared it's ugly head. MTL was always burying me with macro vs micro. I'm 100% about micro. macro is for my investments.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 12, 2014 12:55:19 GMT -5
turns out my "job" at SUNY is a "Title D Term appointment" lasting one year. at which time I will be evaluated and if I pass I can get another year, up to 3 years. I wish they would have explained that during the interview process or at least when they offered me the position before I quit my Pepsi gig. I was under the impression(and the SUNY folks did nothing to correct me) that this was a full time job, not a pseudo 1 year contract. Can I sue them for false advertising? Back to having to worry about Health Insurance I guess. I will get more info on Monday when I start. I'm getting ready to leave the state and hang it up. I'm looking at North Carolina.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 18, 2014 9:32:34 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 18, 2014 9:44:06 GMT -5
The linked article does not list her other monthly expenses. You or I cannot assume she has no other expenses. here is a graph with the median expected U.S. salary range for LPNs. Licensed Practical Nurses Salary
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 18, 2014 9:49:47 GMT -5
Ms. Cadet is a licensed practical nurse, oldcoyote. LPNs don't make the same kind of money as registered nurses (RNs). Their salaries are a good deal lower.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Feb 18, 2014 11:48:27 GMT -5
www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/01/10/humana-obamacare-exchange-enrollment-more-adverse-than-previously-expected/
Couple of interesting points there:
1) That the risk profile of PPACA enrollments (or 'enrollments,' since some percentage of them haven't paid premiums yet and so aren't actually enrolled) is significantly more adverse than anticipated - really, all this stuff about the age and gender breakdowns of enrollments doesn't matter: what matters is how much claim expense the average insured represents for the insurer over the life of the policy. Young people who enroll so they can have their pregnancies or chronic health conditions covered are undoubtedly advantaged thereby in the short run, but the long-run impact on costs of healthcare coverage (let alone costs of healthcare delivery) are likely to be significant, whatever cheerleading research the Kaiser Foundation touts to the contrary.
2) That Medicare Advantage remains preferable to a significant population of seniors, compared with Medicare. As the article notes, it will be interesting to see how that trend is affected by future tweaks/gouges of funding.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2014 20:32:18 GMT -5
it is really easy to look up payscale. i suggest you do that.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 4, 2014 13:08:22 GMT -5
My RN wife is in the $53/hr. range, maybe a bit more. No nights, 4 days a week, occasional weekend half day.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Mar 12, 2014 23:49:42 GMT -5
Ah Freedom! The freedom to choose what to forego in order to pay your health care installment.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 13, 2014 9:05:37 GMT -5
One thing i have not see is the cost of the experts that were brought in to correct this fiasco?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 2, 2014 22:41:46 GMT -5
Deathwatch part II
Seems like a considerable number of people who signed up for Obamacare are failing to make their payments on the regularly scheduled due dates. We did wonder if this might happen. Will they confiscate your insurance like the banks do on your house when you fail to pay the mortgage?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 2, 2014 23:21:15 GMT -5
Deathwatch part II
Seems like a considerable number of people who signed up for Obamacare are failing to make their payments on the regularly scheduled due dates. We did wonder if this might happen. Will they confiscate your insurance like the banks do on your house when you fail to pay the mortgage? one can only hope.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on May 3, 2014 4:38:26 GMT -5
i pretty much wondered if this was going to happen. A LOT of these people are living, at best, paycheck to paycheck IF they are working at all. Suspect they had high hopes or just signed up to avoid the penalty.
I am pretty sure the insurance companies will drop them like a hot potato. Wonder if the companies are required to notify any gov agency of people dropped for non-payment like some states require of auto insurers?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2014 7:02:27 GMT -5
Well, mine was 3 days late because stupid BCBS website said I was enrolled in automatic payments but wasn't.. Good thing I noticed and called... Again...
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