djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2013 13:28:03 GMT -5
Thanks, I thought based on reading the previous posts that the SCOTUS heard a challenge and declared the current state of this law constitutional. To my knowledge that has not happened yet. It will IMHO be a sad day if it is challenged and declared constitutional! my money is on it not even being challenged. the next question is: WHY?
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Dec 9, 2013 13:48:48 GMT -5
Sorry, Can't answer why. Probablly because allowing the executive branch to operate independently of the congress is the new norm and no one has the balls to challenge it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2013 13:49:51 GMT -5
Sorry, Can't answer why. Probablly because allowing the executive branch to operate independently of the congress is the new norm and no one has the balls to challenge it. that is precisely it. that, and that both parties see this as a "win" for them: the imperial presidency. said, isn't it?
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Dec 9, 2013 14:02:42 GMT -5
Sad indeed! Especially since the people still could (kindly) ask for this to be changed and could force it to change if necessary but will not. It has always amazed me how a country of people will suffer terribbly under a horrific dictator that could be over thrown within hours if the people would only stand up and remove him.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2013 14:26:47 GMT -5
And who created this imperial presidency? Cheney even had a shadow type CIA running, who knows what abuses have now been ingrained. i think it is kindof a neocon thing. it has been building for a while. probably started under Ford, and has kept building and building. actually, if you think about that perspective for a second, it is hopeful. because if this is not something that just emerged, then over time, it will accrete (sic) enough power to spur REAL debate, and it will be stopped. if not....well...let's just say i prefer not to think about it. edit: strike that. i think it either started under LBJ or earlier. the way we got into VietNam was a disaster that has been repeated so many times since then that it is easy to lose track.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Dec 9, 2013 14:59:14 GMT -5
So should we all denounce this "imperial presidency" notion and encourage to do the same? Who cares who did the first wrong. If it's wrong it's wrong. Lets demand change! Period.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Dec 9, 2013 15:10:08 GMT -5
Congress is grid locked, the president ruling by decree is the only way to get anything done these days. Soon as the nuts on both sides start electing moderates that don't view compromise as a dirty word I'll be more ardent in limiting executive power.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2013 15:11:27 GMT -5
So should we all denounce this "imperial presidency" notion and encourage to do the same? Who cares who did the first wrong. If it's wrong it's wrong. Lets demand change! Period. i am with you, rockon- but i have been hollering about it since 2003. welcome to the club.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Dec 9, 2013 15:42:42 GMT -5
"Congress is grid locked, the president ruling by decree is the only way to get anything done these days."
Now that statement is the essence of what is wrong. Every president will always claim an emergency or failure to acheive what they want. That in no way justifies doing another thing wrong. When the people feel the pain of congress failing to act they will be much more motivated to "fix" the problem.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Dec 9, 2013 15:45:11 GMT -5
True. It becomes a chicken and egg thing, or self fulfilling prophecy. Congress refuses to do anything to protest executive overreach, the President points to Congress not acting and uses it to justify the overreach.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2013 15:50:27 GMT -5
True. It becomes a chicken and egg thing, or self fulfilling prophecy. Congress refuses to do anything to protest executive overreach, the President points to Congress not acting and uses it to justify the overreach. ...and the party that is WITH the president won't bring him to task. the party that is against him doesn't currently have the votes for it. it is a bad bad situation.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 9, 2013 21:45:16 GMT -5
Just a legal footnote- the Scotus has the final say on the Constitution- because they said they did a long time ago (Marbury v Madison) and it's kind of a thing now.
Surprised the right hasn't been all over this since they got rebuked on Obamacare. Probably on their mile long never quit playlist somewhere down the line.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 10, 2013 9:46:04 GMT -5
And who created this imperial presidency? Cheney even had a shadow type CIA running, who knows what abuses have now been ingrained. i think it is kindof a neocon thing. it has been building for a while. probably started under Ford, and has kept building and building. actually, if you think about that perspective for a second, it is hopeful. because if this is not something that just emerged, then over time, it will accrete (sic) enough power to spur REAL debate, and it will be stopped. if not....well...let's just say i prefer not to think about it. edit: strike that. i think it either started under LBJ or earlier. the way we got into VietNam was a disaster that has been repeated so many times since then that it is easy to lose track. If, we are talking about the CIA......... Short memory there. How about President Kennedy? Can you say Bay of Pigs? CIA was well involved. LBJ continued Vietnam after taking over the Presidency. The CIA was already there, and Gulf of Tonkin resolution was just the icing on the cake. So......not really a neocon thing in the grand scheme of things........
Personally, I believe it went back to WWII and then the Cold War after that.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 10, 2013 9:47:27 GMT -5
And who created this imperial presidency? Cheney even had a shadow type CIA running, who knows what abuses have now been ingrained. Wilson, T. Roosevelt, and FDR are also good examples (not disputing the problems with Bush).
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 10, 2013 9:49:29 GMT -5
You're not keeping your drugs, either. The list of drugs covered under ObamaCare plans is short- and it's not listed so you can shop beforehand. And if it's not on the list, you will pay out of pocket, and your out of pocket expense DOES NOT COUNT towards your deductible / out-of-pocket limit. Have fun... nation.foxnews.com/2013/12/10/no-you-can%E2%80%99t-keep-your-drugs-either-under-obamacareLike your plan, keep your plan- NOPE! Like your doctor, keep your doctor- NOPE! Need your meds, keep your meds- NOPE!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 10, 2013 9:52:30 GMT -5
This fiasco is just getting worse. Middle America (what is left of it) has officially been dismantled by the President.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 10, 2013 10:54:40 GMT -5
i think it is kindof a neocon thing. it has been building for a while. probably started under Ford, and has kept building and building. actually, if you think about that perspective for a second, it is hopeful. because if this is not something that just emerged, then over time, it will accrete (sic) enough power to spur REAL debate, and it will be stopped. if not....well...let's just say i prefer not to think about it. edit: strike that. i think it either started under LBJ or earlier. the way we got into VietNam was a disaster that has been repeated so many times since then that it is easy to lose track. If, we are talking about the CIA......... Short memory there.
easy on the flattery, you are making my knees buckle. but no, i was NOT talking "the CIA". nor was anyone else. we were talking about the "imperial presidency".
How about President Kennedy? Can you say Bay of Pigs? CIA was well involved. LBJ continued Vietnam after taking over the Presidency. The CIA was already there, and Gulf of Tonkin resolution was just the icing on the cake. So......not really a neocon thing in the grand scheme of things........
Personally, I believe it went back to WWII and then the Cold War after that.
probably.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 10, 2013 10:55:33 GMT -5
You're not keeping your drugs, either. that should suit the drug free America crowd just fine.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 10, 2013 10:56:30 GMT -5
This fiasco is just getting worse. Middle America (what is left of it) has officially been dismantled by the President.
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 10, 2013 11:12:02 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 10, 2013 14:27:10 GMT -5
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Dec 10, 2013 19:41:52 GMT -5
No, the article headline is " AIDS advocates say drug coverage in some marketplace plans is inadequate" Can you ever just be truthful?
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Dec 10, 2013 19:54:38 GMT -5
If 95% of your roof does not leak, is the 5% that does the only inadequate part of the roof?
It's at least as truthful as "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. Period."
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Dec 10, 2013 20:05:07 GMT -5
"If 95% of your roof does not leak, is the 5% that does the only inadequate part of the roof?"
Ok, so I get what you were going for with this, but considering my knowledge of construction and related fields, this just isn't a good comparison mkay?
It's at least as truthful as "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. Period."
Well that's just fabulous. Bitch about people not being truthful while not being truthful about the bitching. Interesting approach. Let us know how that works out will you?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 10, 2013 22:36:45 GMT -5
If, we are talking about the CIA......... Short memory there.
easy on the flattery, you are making my knees buckle. but no, i was NOT talking "the CIA". nor was anyone else. we were talking about the "imperial presidency".
How about President Kennedy? Can you say Bay of Pigs? CIA was well involved. LBJ continued Vietnam after taking over the Presidency. The CIA was already there, and Gulf of Tonkin resolution was just the icing on the cake. So......not really a neocon thing in the grand scheme of things........
Personally, I believe it went back to WWII and then the Cold War after that.
probably. Actually dj, go back and read patstab's statement that you originally responded to. She talked about Cheney and a shadow CIA, which you responded to. I thought we were off the Imperial Presidency idea and progressed to the CIA. My thoughts were the CIA involvement with the Bay of Pigs invasion and a Democratic President rather than the evil Republican Dick Cheny that patstab continues to whine and moan about. I think she really believes the Democrats are honorable people, compared to Republicans.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 10, 2013 22:38:57 GMT -5
Actually dj, go back and read patstab's statement that you originally responded to. She talked about Cheney and a shadow CIA, which you responded to. I thought we were off the Imperial Presidency idea and progressed to the CIA. My thoughts were the CIA involvement with the Bay of Pigs invasion and a Democratic President rather than the evil Republican Dick Cheny that patstab continues to whine and moan about. I think she really believes the Democrats are honorable people, compared to Republicans.
ah, sorry. i kinda skim her posts, and read yours word for word. my bad. point withdrawn.
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 10, 2013 23:44:12 GMT -5
No, the article headline is " AIDS advocates say drug coverage in some marketplace plans is inadequate" Can you ever just be truthful? Yep- I miss the pre-ACA days when insurance companies were falling over each other to cover AIDS patients and their expensive drugs Only the most hardcore mental gymnastics can come to the conclusion that insurance that falls short is much worse than none at all. And that reminds me of what our local RW radio nut says about AIDS- other than sex with a monkey started it all- that AIDS research is a waste of money that would be better used fighting cancer and heart disease since AIDS is 100% preventable and due to lifestyle choice. So in a nutshell maybe the law needs to be tweaked to mandate particular drug coverage- could have just went single payer and avoided all of this insurance company bullshit- but here we are.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 10, 2013 23:57:00 GMT -5
No, the article headline is " AIDS advocates say drug coverage in some marketplace plans is inadequate" Can you ever just be truthful? No. just more twisting the facts.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 11, 2013 9:14:20 GMT -5
No, the article headline is " AIDS advocates say drug coverage in some marketplace plans is inadequate" Can you ever just be truthful? The headline was misleading, so I corrected it to be truthful. The fact of the matter is that ObamaCare doesn't provide consumers with information about what is covered on the list in the different marketplaces so consumers don't know. Caveat emptor- the responsible thing to do is assume it is system-wide, not to limit it to 'some marketplaces' without knowing for sure if it isn't system-wide. And we have discovered with the incremental honesty from the regime- it's a pretty safe bet that the WHOLE THING is screwed up- "some marketplaces" today will be all of the system by the end of the month. The TRUTH is, we won't have to worry about this law for very long. It's going away.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 11, 2013 9:29:11 GMT -5
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said: "The headline was misleading, so I corrected it to be truthful." Yet the very first paragraph states: Notice it does not state "But all companies". When you are done correcting this article author's work, get busy on correcting the bible as parts of it are untruthful. The WCP Bible of Truth should be an interesting read.
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