Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 15, 2013 7:23:21 GMT -5
I say the repubs stop fighting. Let this be the huge failure and let the voters hold their politicians or party who voted for it responsible. that would be extremely wise. i have not seen that sort of strategic wisdom in the party for at least four years. I agree.
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Nov 15, 2013 7:46:30 GMT -5
that would be extremely wise. i have not seen that sort of strategic wisdom in the party for at least four years. I agree. Tequila!!!! Long term we have several systems to study in the EU...France...Denmark..Germany..and Asian powerhouse Japan. Why they did not bid it...Microsofty or Google..with six month of per-Market test!!!I have done major programing a one billion USD is just beyond reason..Should be running sooth for that price. Three years and it will have to be redone from scratch. Just a thought, BiMetalAuPt www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files/Publications/Fund%20Report/2011/Nov/1562_Squires_Intl_Profiles_2011_11_10.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 8:39:08 GMT -5
So I got "I'm sorry my website designed to screw you doesn't work as planned, but lets just take another year so I can do it better." from that. Oh, and my state insurance commission CAN, not WILL, CAN choose to delay this a year. My guess is that nobody will get to "keep their plan" for an extra year. It's too little, too late. Insurance companies can't completely revamp their plans on a moment's notice. I suspect it is too late. Too bad for the messiah.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Nov 15, 2013 9:11:31 GMT -5
use the phone. that's what I did.
i don't want to be a hero but maybe some one on the project might want to call in AT&T or Verizon and have them set up high tech high speed phone banks and get er done.
everyone is focused on website. if this had passed during uncle bill's reign it would have been done with 1-800 numbers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 9:21:17 GMT -5
I have stuff filled out online. If I can't submit end of November, I'll call.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Nov 15, 2013 9:29:31 GMT -5
i did too. got as far as i could with the web site. but was a bit overwhelmed with the choices. I had a nice young lady "hold my hand" the entire way through the process.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 10:54:55 GMT -5
Is it just me, or does it seem like Obama's proposed fix amounts to:
1) Okay, folks who lost your insurance: oops. Dropped the ball on this one. I really didn't think you guys would notice or mind. Since you did, apparently, I'll give you twelve more months before you have to give your insurance up. Because next year you won't care about your out-of-pocket costs, or your choice of doctors and hospitals, or your cushy 80/20 coinsurance. More importantly, we'll have got those pesky elections out of the way, and you caring won't matter again, like it didn't in 2009, or 2010 (well, maybe it mattered a bit then, but really, who believes the Tea Party matters? Tea Partiers?), or 2011, when I could just dismiss you as worrying over nothing because Obamacare was going to be better for everybody.
2) By the way, guys, your problem's not really with me. It's with the states that didn't expand Medicaid, and the states that did but have insurance commissioners who don't understand that their job is to run cover for me, and instead have this wacky notion that they're responsible for the insurance marketplace -
[2a) Who knew? Insurance marketplaces are complicated things. Somebody should have told me that]
- and of course the real bad guys, the insurers, without whose actuarial efforts the whole socializing of healthcare cost flies out the window and everybody is one medical emergency away from the poorhouse. Never mind that their plans were built and costed on the assumption that the law of the land would be equitably applied; never mind that the states have approved those plans; never mind that their software got modified in a timely manner, and there isn't a window between now and Jan 1 to undo that. It's their fault, now: I've said they can restore your plans for a whole twelve months, so they jolly well can. I haven't explained the legal grounds for me to unilaterally ignore statutory language, but I've got people in my administration preparing a defense for that - we're trying to decide between "what difference, at this point, does it make?" and just sticking our fingers in our ears and going "la la la." Jay will explain later, once we've decided how to spin it.
3) Psst, insurers. Sorry guys. It's those damn Republicans - Dianne Feinstein, Jeff Merkley, their poison-pen friends in the media like Ezra Klein and Jon Stewart - painting me into a corner. Believe me, the last thing I wanted to do was scapegoat you guys to get myself off the hook for an historically shambolic policy implementation fiasco. Not my style at all. The Buck Stops Here! No, but seriously, no hard feelings. I really appreciate the efforts you're all putting in to unkludge the website stuff -
[3a) Websites have a lot of stuff. Who knew? Why wasn't I informed? I blame Darryll Issa.]
- and, look, I'll make it up to you. You know and I know that premiums have been set for 2014 based on assumptions which, as it turns out, through no fault of my own and in ways untraceable back to me, weren't accurate. Oops. I dropped that ball, too. I take full responsibility - how else can I pass it on to you lot if I don't take it first? So here's what we're going to do. Obviously, you guys are too big to fail - my reforms made it pretty much impossible for small firms to compete on the exchanges, so, just like with banking and energy, I'm setting up what amounts to cartels. Of course, I'm keeping my thumb on your scales so you don't try to exploit people - that's government's role, and don't you forget it. But I am going to make sure we funnel some money to you, a bit of corporate welfare to grease the wheels and compensate you for what you won't get in premiums from low-risk participants in the exchange. I'll have to. I'll make Republicans do it, actually. Then I can call them hypocrites, blame them for the problems I made and the fixes I proposed, and come out smelling of roses...! Oh, and you guys will be fine, too. Message: I Spend.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Nov 15, 2013 11:01:26 GMT -5
27 Million people have logged onto the website in the first five weeks. The law will be tweaked just like every other law out there. But its here to stay.
Most folks wont sign up until the very last minute. that's how these things usually go.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Nov 15, 2013 11:02:50 GMT -5
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 12:09:20 GMT -5
27 Million people have logged onto the website in the first five weeks. The law will be tweaked just like every other law out there. But its here to stay. Most folks wont sign up until the very last minute. that's how these things usually go. Well, yes. Something is going to remain. If Obama gets his way, we can rename it the SUCK Act (Screw Unfortunate Claimants' Kids), since all of the costs are going to be dumped on the next generation so nobody who might vote or shape the vote in 2014 - not the newly-minted Medicaid recipients, not the states on the hook for covering the costs of their care a couple years down the road, not the people forced off their existing plans by the labyrinthine "grandfathering" provision, not the insurers cut off at the knees by Obama's stunningly self-interested volte-face yesterday, not the doctors or hospitals or even the taxpayers today - need bear the inevitable cost of "reform" (which amounts to doing the same things as before but more bureaucratically and expensively and with less scope to opt out of the system) by the happy expedient of magicking up funny money from the Fed so that future taxpayers can pay swingeing interest on that borrowing. Also: folks waiting to the 'last minute' will find (a) the website can't handle that surge in traffic; (b) the 'last minute' will, like all hard choices under this administration, be punted down the road. Adverse selection is pretty much guaranteed at this point. "Tweaks" will be to the changes in the law as "glitches" are to problems with the healthcare.gov website, or "inaccurate" to claims made by Obama about his reform.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 12:16:43 GMT -5
Bonus: the official scorecard for signups under Obamacare is around 106,000, total. That includes state exchanges, at least two of which don't split out Medicaid enrollees (Hawaii's one, I forget the other). It also includes a very broad measure of 'enrollee' that essentially counts everybody who selected a plan and put it in a virtual shopping-basket (across a range of online sales industries, the uptake rate from there to actual purchase is usually 30%, although the purchase isn't usually forced by mandate).
The healthcare.gov Federal exchange registered about a quarter - something like 27,000 - of those 'enrollees'. That's a 0.1% rate of purchase. To be clear, for the targeted 7 million people to 'enrol,' let alone actually enrol, 7 billion people would have to visit the website at its current rate of functionality (I'm generously disregarding the likely impact of the overall crappiness of available options in several exchange markets on potential buyers' willingness to just gamble that the tax penalty goes the same way as the employer mandate, the CLASS provision, and the other politically uncomfortable parts of the law).
Current population of Earth: 7.124 billion, estimated.
I know what you're thinking. Most of those people don't even live in America. But I have faith that the Obama team that found a way round that wrinkle to fund his Presidential campaigns can glide past it for the sake of rescuing his namesake policy debacle.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Nov 15, 2013 12:40:17 GMT -5
(which amounts to doing the same things as before but more bureaucratically and expensively and with less scope to opt out of the system) that sums it up, except that now I can participate. and that's all i care about. thanks "future" Americans!
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 13:12:59 GMT -5
Hey, "I'm all right Jack" is the New American Way. You earned it.
I have no problem with anybody acting rationally in accordance with the incentives the marketplace creates.
I indulge the luxury of criticizing the market incentives, particularly where they are wilfully blind to this tendency of quite a lot of people to act in their own best interests based on the best available information, and even more particularly when they are aware of this tendency but seek to corrupt it by putting out disinformation that distorts market signals, but that's a different kettle of fish.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 15, 2013 13:35:14 GMT -5
Bonus: the official scorecard for signups under Obamacare is around 106,000, total. the scorecard for RomneyCare in the first month was 123.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Nov 15, 2013 13:40:01 GMT -5
If everyone now has to pay how is that dumping everything onto the next generation?
27 million people getting on the website in a five week period tells me that many millions of folks will be signing up. At most will be towards the end of the time frame.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Nov 15, 2013 13:40:56 GMT -5
When we rolled out the Prescription law in 2006 it was a mess in the beginning too.
Not that I like the law but this is whats going to happen.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 15, 2013 13:44:04 GMT -5
When we rolled out the Prescription law in 2006 it was a mess in the beginning too. Not that I like the law but this is whats going to happen. the interesting thing is that with RomneyCare and MPB, i don't remember roughly half of the political establishment working actively against it. ObamaCare has some headwind. but it will probably prevail, anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 13:47:06 GMT -5
If everyone now has to pay how is that dumping everything onto the next generation? 27 million people getting on the website in a five week period tells me that many millions of folks will be signing up. At most will be towards the end of the time frame. If that were true, we wouldn't be. Unfortunately, it's not true.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 14:01:51 GMT -5
Bonus: the official scorecard for signups under Obamacare is around 106,000, total. the scorecard for RomneyCare in the first month was 123. a) You mean PatrickCare. b) Are you sure your scorecards are measuring the same things?
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 14:07:15 GMT -5
If everyone now has to pay how is that dumping everything onto the next generation? 27 million people getting on the website in a five week period tells me that many millions of folks will be signing up. At most will be towards the end of the time frame. Because of the really staggering amounts of bureaucratic kludge involved. Look, if a healthy 55 year old woman can only find policies on the exchange that cost $200 a month more than they one she's having cancelled because of Obamacare, you know that a healthy 25 year old man is facing a bigger hike on the same policy. Just because she's getting shafted doesn't mean he's not getting shafted worse. Similarly, the subsidies for the exchange participants are being paid by future taxpayers with interest. And the losses to the insurers arising out of the bad-faith rollout of Obamacare will be made good by future taxpayers with interest. And the moral hazard of both is gigantic. Again, 27 million people - approximately two-thirds of the uninsured population, if you believe the figures (if you do, you shouldn't; most of them have access to insurance, e.g. through eligibility for Medicaid under existing rules, but don't take advantage of it) - accessing the website isn't the meaningful statistic: 27,000 choosing a policy through it (not even 27,000 paying a premium, which is the industry standard for 'enrollment') is. That represents 0.1% of the visitors actually deciding to buy.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 14:09:01 GMT -5
That's because both were designed and implemented in a bipartisan fashion. It's not rocket science. You build something unilaterally, you own it unilaterally. You set yourself up to take all the credit, you earn all the blame.
Mr Obama, you built that.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Nov 15, 2013 14:35:23 GMT -5
Bonus: the official scorecard for signups under Obamacare is around 106,000, total. the scorecard for RomneyCare in the first month was 123. The first presser about Commwealth Care went out January 23rd. The exchange opened January 1st. There are 31 days in January. Prorating, 123 for an 8-day advertised period is a monthly rate of 477. Still poor. However, Obamacare has been in the headlines for YEARS. There are snakes under rocks in Arizona that knew the website went live October 1st. We've heard lots of gushing about how most of the uninsured people in America visited the website in its first month of operation. This was manifestly not true of the uninsured of Massachussets in January 2007 (when the Governor of the Commonwealth was Deval Patrick, not Mitt Romney, whose eight line-item vetoes of 'Romneycare' were overridden by Patrick's Democratic allies in the legislature). The actual figure was 226, anyway. And the figures released by the White House for Obamacare include situations analogous to the Type I and Type IIA enrollees under Commonwealth Care (there were 10,000 of those in the first month). And Massachusetts auto-enrolled a number of its uninsured. And allowed a longer window, twelve months as opposed to six, for them to enroll. And it counted 'enrolling' as including paying a premium, which the Obama administration daren't do. In the first full month of operation for the Commonwealth Connector after advertising started in earnest, it enrolled 4,186 people, according to the same source as that 226 figure. Commonwealth Choice, which offered unsubsidized plans (also included in Obamacare's count), attracted 2,799 enrollees between May 2007, when enrollment opened, and July 2007, when the plans started. For Obamacare to replicate this performance by the end of its second month of enrolling, it would need to have converted 27,000 'enrollees' (I'll be charitable and overlook the Medicaid enrollments in Hawaii, the fully subsidized 'premium enrollees,' and those that end up not paying the premiums they owe in the first month) to the 500,000 the administration projected as a target for October. Plus another 335,000 paying full premium on the new exchanges without any subsidy at all. If we allow the state exchanges to shoulder the burden of the comparison, the target becomes 1.9 million enrollees getting premium subsidies, plus 1.3 million paying full premium on the exchanges. By the end of November. Two weeks from now. A comparison not only of apples to oranges, but of rotten apples to oranges.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Nov 15, 2013 15:07:55 GMT -5
i hear ya. I'm an intelligent, independent pragmatist I'm 53 years old, can't get a "perm" job with benefits and can't afford Individual Comprehensive Health Insurance. I'm certainly not going to die on principle for this situation. I didn't make the game, but I'm forced to play in it. I'll only needs yours guyes help for 12 more years. i'm an asset, trust me, you want me on your team.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 15, 2013 18:56:28 GMT -5
It seems yesterday's arbitrary "fix" by Presidential fiat might actually have made things worse... ObamaCare's architect sees "death spiral". www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-architect-could-be-beginning-death-spiral_767168.htmlThe law isn't just "unpopular" it didn't just have a "glitchy rollout"- so these comparisons to other changes in the law, RomneyCare, etc. are all off base. This law is completely unworkable from start to finish-- and the fact of the matter is that the only fix is full repeal- and Democrats are likely to lead the charge. They're in BIG, BIG trouble. And I, for one, am LOVING EVERY LAST SECOND OF IT.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 15, 2013 22:28:52 GMT -5
the scorecard for RomneyCare in the first month was 123. The first presser about Commwealth Care went out January 23rd. The exchange opened January 1st. There are 31 days in January. Prorating, 123 for an 8-day advertised period is a monthly rate of 477. Still poor. However, Obamacare has been in the headlines for YEARS. There are snakes under rocks in Arizona that knew the website went live October 1st. We've heard lots of gushing about how most of the uninsured people in America visited the website in its first month of operation. This was manifestly not true of the uninsured of Massachussets in January 2007 (when the Governor of the Commonwealth was Deval Patrick, not Mitt Romney, whose eight line-item vetoes of 'Romneycare' were overridden by Patrick's Democratic allies in the legislature). The actual figure was 226, anyway. And the figures released by the White House for Obamacare include situations analogous to the Type I and Type IIA enrollees under Commonwealth Care (there were 10,000 of those in the first month). And Massachusetts auto-enrolled a number of its uninsured. And allowed a longer window, twelve months as opposed to six, for them to enroll. And it counted 'enrolling' as including paying a premium, which the Obama administration daren't do. In the first full month of operation for the Commonwealth Connector after advertising started in earnest, it enrolled 4,186 people, according to the same source as that 226 figure. Commonwealth Choice, which offered unsubsidized plans (also included in Obamacare's count), attracted 2,799 enrollees between May 2007, when enrollment opened, and July 2007, when the plans started. For Obamacare to replicate this performance by the end of its second month of enrolling, it would need to have converted 27,000 'enrollees' (I'll be charitable and overlook the Medicaid enrollments in Hawaii, the fully subsidized 'premium enrollees,' and those that end up not paying the premiums they owe in the first month) to the 500,000 the administration projected as a target for October. Plus another 335,000 paying full premium on the new exchanges without any subsidy at all. If we allow the state exchanges to shoulder the burden of the comparison, the target becomes 1.9 million enrollees getting premium subsidies, plus 1.3 million paying full premium on the exchanges. By the end of November. Two weeks from now. A comparison not only of apples to oranges, but of rotten apples to oranges. dude. you are not going to get a better comparison. but at least you are conceding that they are both fruits.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 16, 2013 1:17:08 GMT -5
As much as I would like to tear apart our favorite poster's claims- there is no point. I have probably debunked around 100 bullshit posts or claims- and evidently he decided a while back to not answer criticism. No discussion is even on the radar- so why bother posting? I used to think the ignore feature was a way for people to avoid hearing conflicting information- but now I see it as a smart tactic to have people read your bullshit with impunity. So, I am not wasting my time with #829 or any other shit bombs he tosses and runs away from. Too bad- his crazy is driving a lot of topics. Maybe time to move on to Alex Jones
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 16, 2013 1:53:40 GMT -5
That's because both were designed and implemented in a bipartisan fashion. It's not rocket science. You build something unilaterally, you own it unilaterally. You set yourself up to take all the credit, you earn all the blame. Mr Obama, you built that. he knows that. and he also knows that his entire reputation is at stake in it's success or failure. if he is anything like me, i am guessing that is HIGHLY motivating.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 16, 2013 2:27:45 GMT -5
i hear ya. I'm an intelligent, independent pragmatist I'm 53 years old, can't get a "perm" job with benefits and can't afford Individual Comprehensive Health Insurance. I'm certainly not going to die on principle for this situation. I didn't make the game, but I'm forced to play in it. I'll only needs yours guyes help for 12 more years. i'm an asset, trust me, you want me on your team. Don't care if it is 12 or 24 years. Healthcare is a right in my book- all insurance does is make things worse. Of course Obama was going to fail- he allowed the very companies we do not need to write the law. But- should work for you-I hope so. I can't stand you situation. You are getting jacked over programming jobs correct? Hate to bolster my position, but in Canada or the other countries with universal care losing a job or working a shitty job doesn't matter. Citizen=covered. And we claim to be the most advanced........Yet we are one of the worst....
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Nov 16, 2013 4:49:01 GMT -5
As much as I would like to tear apart our favorite poster's claims- there is no point. I have probably debunked around 100 bullshit posts or claims- and evidently he decided a while back to not answer criticism. No discussion is even on the radar- so why bother posting? I used to think the ignore feature was a way for people to avoid hearing conflicting information- but now I see it as a smart tactic to have people read your bullshit with impunity. So, I am not wasting my time with #829 or any other shit bombs he tosses and runs away from. Too bad- his crazy is driving a lot of topics. Maybe time to move on to Alex Jones Yeah, now you see why I gave up trying on this thread. Now I just read for entertainment and refuse to keep wasting my time posting in response to the ridiculousness. The thread reminds me more and more of doow and his thread ranting about Toyota. Which sort of makes it fun and sad at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 9:06:08 GMT -5
As much as I would like to tear apart our favorite poster's claims- there is no point. I have probably debunked around 100 bullshit posts or claims- and evidently he decided a while back to not answer criticism. No discussion is even on the radar- so why bother posting? I used to think the ignore feature was a way for people to avoid hearing conflicting information- but now I see it as a smart tactic to have people read your bullshit with impunity. So, I am not wasting my time with #829 or any other shit bombs he tosses and runs away from. Too bad- his crazy is driving a lot of topics. Maybe time to move on to Alex Jones PBP really gets to you, doesn't he?
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