tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 22, 2013 0:34:53 GMT -5
We've had more than that just in the state of Washington. Of course, our site is working. Probably because we didn't use a Canadian company to build it.
(Actually, I don't know who built the site, but it sounds good. Doesn't it?)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 22, 2013 0:55:34 GMT -5
We've had more than that just in the state of Washington. Of course, our site is working. Probably because we didn't use a Canadian company to build it.
(Actually, I don't know who built the site, but it sounds good. Doesn't it?)
56k signed up in Oregon. i actually consider these numbers to be pretty good. with the efforts that are taking place in the red states, Obama will not hit his targets. but that won't stop ObamaCare. tallguy: i thought one state was considering single payer. someplace back East. did that happen? edit: never mind, i found it: VERMONT. Green Mountain Care. it is actually a dual system. good for them. edit2: this was announced three months ago by GMC's administration board: The Green Mountain Care Board — the regulatory authority for insurance and hospital rates in Vermont — announced this week that it negotiated 4.3% to 5.3% rate cuts in individual and small-group plans offered by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Vermont and MVP Health Care. The rates go into effect Jan. 1. socialism in action.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 22, 2013 1:07:10 GMT -5
I don't think so, but I haven't heard anything about that at all.
What is interesting is that the 56,000 in Oregon have been completely outside of their website. The site isn't even working yet. Those are all on paper, I think. For Washington, the newspaper today said that 35,500 have enrolled, and another 70,000 have completed applications up to the final step (either formally enrolling in Medicaid (14,000) or paying their first monthly premium due December 23 for a private plan (56,000))
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 22, 2013 1:10:48 GMT -5
I don't think so, but I haven't heard anything about that at all.
What is interesting is that the 56,000 in Oregon have been completely outside of their website. The site isn't even working yet.
i heard that. all done by paper and over the phone.
Those are all on paper, I think. For Washington, the newspaper today said that 35,500 have enrolled, and another 70,000 have completed applications up to the final step (either formally enrolling in Medicaid (14,000) or paying their first monthly premium due December 23 for a private plan (56,000))
94,500 Californians have started the process. meanwhile, in Texas, they are slipping back into the stone age (or libertarian paradise, as some call it). might explain why so little hiring has happened there this year.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 22, 2013 1:11:29 GMT -5
I did a quick search. It appears to me that Green Mountain Care is Vermont's new name for Medicaid. Washington changed theirs to Apple Health but it is their Medicaid program.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 22, 2013 1:13:28 GMT -5
secretly, i am really digging the fact that half the US is going to serve as an incubator for this idea, and the other half are going to have to deal with the Federal Exchange and no medicare expansion. it will make a nice contrast. i am not going to make any predictions, other than it will be fun to watch.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 22, 2013 1:17:10 GMT -5
I'm just glad I live in a state that actually gives a damn about its citizens.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 22, 2013 1:19:29 GMT -5
I'm just glad I live in a state that actually gives a damn about its citizens. like i say, it will be fun to watch. the red states are trying hard to sabotage the law. that will probably be quite effective. the question then becomes how they will fare relative to the blue states that have embraced it. it really WILL be fun to watch. kind of like the gay marriage thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 5:11:35 GMT -5
Obamacare was purposely structured to push the debt-creation beyond the initial 10-year CBO study and to artificially deflate future cost inflation. In other words, they made it "unfunded" on purpose.
Don't you also agree that if Obamacare were fully funded and transparent on costs and taxes (like Obama claims he is), that it never would have passed Congress? Honestly, I really have no idea as to the answer to that question. I don't really recall, was the taxes and funding a huge discussion point? It basically got through without any republican support, would higher taxes have kept some of the dems from supporting it? If everyone knew that it would raise the deficit by $100B/yr, don't you think it would have lost some votes? And don't you think if it included new taxes on everyone (not just the rich), that it would have lost some votes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 5:13:08 GMT -5
I haven't taken the time to do any research on the medical device tax. I will say not every little nest of doctors needs its own CAT scanner, its own MRI, it's own bone density scanner, etc., ad infinitum. Yet, that's what's been happening. Everybody wants their own nest of machines to add to income. Once they've got it, there's a quantum increase in such tests ordered. Sorry, but I've seen it. You probably make a good point, but do you think the medical devices tax really does anything to solve it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 5:17:47 GMT -5
We've (our country) always been in debt. We'll always be in debt. A sick poor kid or one with cancer or take a little off the trillions owed? Hmmm... how do I decide? We're already paying for the poor and because they constantly use the ER it's more than we should be paying. At least now they are forced to pay something and will have a regular doctor instead of the ER. Maybe, just maybe, we'll break even at the very least but little innocent kids get help when they are sick. I'm ok with that. I don't buy it. If we are "already paying for" it, then why do we have to inrease the deficit? If that's the case, then Obamacare simply takes money that insurance companies are already paying and socializes it. If that were the case, everybody's costs should be going down. But they are not. Please don't use the poor kid with cancer image. I don't want a kid to die of treatable cancer any more than you do, and poor people already get health coverage. I doubt that happens very often without Obamacare, but the question is whether Obamacare is a cost-effective means to address our problems, not whether we should actually address them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 5:19:40 GMT -5
"$ Trillions for senseless killing, but not one cent for compassion!" What a cop-out. Rather than answer a legit question, you villify the person asking the question. Please answer my question about deficits.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 22, 2013 7:52:13 GMT -5
I'm not OK with deficits. However I am OK with the spending on healthcare. Fortunately there are other ways to deal with deficits than to just cut the program. We could increase taxes and cut spending in other areas. I personally think healthcare should be a priority in this country and worth the cost, even if that means higher taxes. As far as the medical device tax, all I know of it was your explanation of taxing the thing the taxes are supposed to be funding. Which does sound stupid. Although a great deal of healthcare spending still comes from individuals due to deductibles and such. So I'm not really sure how it all works out. I haven't taken the time to do any research on the medical device tax. I will say not every little nest of doctors needs its own CAT scanner, its own MRI, it's own bone density scanner, etc., ad infinitum. Yet, that's what's been happening. Everybody wants their own nest of machines to add to income. Once they've got it, there's a quantum increase in such tests ordered. Sorry, but I've seen it. With all due respect, what business is it of yours, or the federal government what tools a doctor chooses to do their job? And what's wrong with adding income so long as adding that income provides additional, and potentially life-saving, value to the patient? And isn't the increase in tests ordered more related to tort law, than income?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 22, 2013 8:03:49 GMT -5
I agree everyone should pay higher taxes. They need to start by getting rid of the Bush tax cuts. I also agree that this (and for the most part every) law should be fully funded from the start. I think part of the problem is that this law was so huge that it is hard to truly estimate the costs. Since so much really comes down to how many get the subsidies, how many pay the penalty, and how many employers owe fines there are a lot of unknowns at this time. The problem with fully funding the law from the start is that Obama and the Democrats who passed this bill on a procedural vote along straight party lines would have had to report the true cost of the bill upfront instead of lying. After months of lying and denying it was a massive tax increase, the SCOTUS ruled in favor of the individual ObamaCare mandate by re-writing the law to say it says something the Democrats said it didn't: it's a tax. And consider this fun fact: in ruling ObamaCare a tax, the SCOTUS actually (over here in reality where I live) struck down the law. Because ObamaCare originated in the Senate, and because it's a tax bill, it violates the origination clause. So, as presented by the Democrats- it's unConstitutional, and as re-interpreted by Scotus, it's illegal. So there's that. But hey- we're not going to let a little thing like the Constitution matter- I know that. Just throwing it out there. And when you say everyone should pay higher taxes- maybe you're right. But I would say let's start smaller and insist simply that everyone pay SOME taxes.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Oct 22, 2013 8:19:08 GMT -5
yes a canadian crony corp. that probably used freshers from india.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Oct 22, 2013 8:19:48 GMT -5
0 have been enrolled through the NYS website.
the admin. won't release the numbers. even freedom of information requests are being denied.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 22, 2013 8:36:23 GMT -5
How long until it's gone? (and yes, this is courtesy of The Onion- it's parody. Sort of. Software would be an upgrade from the 1-800 plus if you act now phone number)
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 22, 2013 8:38:13 GMT -5
Actually they did nothing of the kind. They did say that the penalty for not having insurance was a tax. Correct. The individual mandate carries with it a TAX penalty. The entire law depends on funding, so all the various devices for raising revenue in the law- from this, to the medical devices tax, to all the rest of the revenue-- all of that violates the origination clause. Period. It's black and white.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Oct 22, 2013 9:04:18 GMT -5
Seems like the best thing the republicans could have done was stay out of the way and let it fail under its own weight.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 22, 2013 9:21:56 GMT -5
Seems like the best thing the republicans could have done was stay out of the way and let it fail under its own weight. Well, no- actually since the Senate had no Constitutional authority to fund it, the BEST thing the GOP could have done is unite with We The People AGAINST Obama and the Demcorats by exercising the exclusive Constitutional power of the purse held by the House to defund it while SIMULTANEOUSLY EDUCATING THE PUBLIC about what they were doing and WHY- EVERY waking minute of every day- there should have been a round the clock, on the House steps, full-blow expose of all the problems- why this matters, why it's making a full time job harder to find, why full time workers are being cut to part time or fired, why costs are going up, and all the rest of it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 22, 2013 9:25:40 GMT -5
How long until it's gone?
McAfee Drops Obamacare Bombshell: Enrollee's Bank Accounts Can Be Easily Drained By Hackers
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 22, 2013 9:27:32 GMT -5
Correct. The individual mandate carries with it a TAX penalty. The entire law depends on funding, so all the various devices for raising revenue in the law- from this, to the medical devices tax, to all the rest of the revenue-- all of that violates the origination clause. Period. It's black and white. OK, I will admit that I don't have all of the facts at my finger tips- nor unfortunately the time to find them, but this claim has been refuted, not least of which was by the SCOTUS. Plus, the bill passed- with all of the above provisions, in the US House of Representatives. It is constitutional. No. It was declared Constitutional as a tax. It still must pass Constitutional muster as a tax. This challenge has yet to be brought- but it will, and then it will be gone in its entirety. Obamacare will be defeated, and it will be a stain on the Democrats for eternity. We will never again come close to anything like it- let alone single payer. This battle will be won by the people.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 22, 2013 9:27:51 GMT -5
I haven't taken the time to do any research on the medical device tax. I will say not every little nest of doctors needs its own CAT scanner, its own MRI, it's own bone density scanner, etc., ad infinitum. Yet, that's what's been happening. Everybody wants their own nest of machines to add to income. Once they've got it, there's a quantum increase in such tests ordered. Sorry, but I've seen it. You probably make a good point, but do you think the medical devices tax really does anything to solve it? I don't see how it would, investorbob, but I'd sure like to see that garbage slowed down! As I said, I really haven't looked into this particular tax. I'd like to know its purported purpose, as well.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 22, 2013 9:30:53 GMT -5
How long until it's gone? McAfee Drops Obamacare Bombshell: Enrollee's Bank Accounts Can Be Easily Drained By HackersPhishing is one of the things you legitimately can't blame the ACA for. Anything big and online is going to be phished. It's a fact of life.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 22, 2013 9:38:33 GMT -5
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 22, 2013 9:46:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I really have no idea as to the answer to that question. I don't really recall, was the taxes and funding a huge discussion point? It basically got through without any republican support, would higher taxes have kept some of the dems from supporting it? If everyone knew that it would raise the deficit by $100B/yr, don't you think it would have lost some votes? And don't you think if it included new taxes on everyone (not just the rich), that it would have lost some votes? Everyone who? A great deal of people seemed to think that it contained a death panel and it still passed. I really don't give much credence to what the general public knows or doesn't know anymore. Way too many people had opinions on the ACA without actually knowing any facts. Whether or not congress would have voted it through with addtional taxes, I have no idea. Since it wasn't bipartisan, then I could see it still getting through the dems when raising taxes. Wasn't there already an estimated deficit by the CBO before it passed? Or do I remember wrong?
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 22, 2013 10:13:26 GMT -5
From what I've read on the medical device tax - it's not just on big items like MRIs, it's also on individual things that go into patients or patients use. I've read that artificial knees, pacemakers, TENS units will all get taxed - at least one site even said surgical gloves fell under the tax.
So the tax is supposed to help pay for healthcare insurance, but now the healthcare insurance is paying higher prices for not only MRIs (that'd be fractional over the life of the device) but whenever a patient needs an artificial knee/hip. Wouldn't that just cause premiums to go up by some fraction of the tax? I guess because it would be small, since healthcare doesn't have to use a device, the round about of health insurance paying the tax to pay for health insurance isn't a big deal?
As for every doctor having imagine devices...around me it's still limited to imaging companies for anything much beyond an X-ray machine - though I know several are co-owned by several doctors. It doesn't bother me that much though because I like having choice and getting in quick and getting the results quick. I wouldn't like a Dr telling me "It's probably nothing to worry about, but lets get you an MRI to make sure it's ok" and then wait weeks or longer to get the MRI done - that'd stress me the hell out not knowing.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Oct 22, 2013 10:48:44 GMT -5
As for every doctor having imagine devices...around me it's still limited to imaging companies for anything much beyond an X-ray machine - though I know several are co-owned by several doctors. It doesn't bother me that much though because I like having choice and getting in quick and getting the results quick. I wouldn't like a Dr telling me "It's probably nothing to worry about, but lets get you an MRI to make sure it's ok" and then wait weeks or longer to get the MRI done - that'd stress me the hell out not knowing. That is somewhat part of the issue, the Dr may tell you that in his opinion it is nothing, but offer the MRI, because it doesn't cost the patient anymore than the deductible.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 22, 2013 10:49:24 GMT -5
How long until it's gone? McAfee Drops Obamacare mcafee sucks. they are such a joke, i can't believe anyone uses them. update- the CEO of this business is a serious loon. if he had anything to do with the "drop", i wouldn't read too much into it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 22, 2013 10:51:05 GMT -5
How long until it's gone? (and yes, this is courtesy of The Onion- it's parody. Sort of. Software would be an upgrade from the 1-800 plus if you act now phone number) we still use floppies at work. they are useful for keeping CNC's isolated and storing programs.
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