Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2013 13:52:01 GMT -5
Rocky I was talking about someone whose division is furloughed now. If they had previously scheduled vacation I don't see why they can't just get the vacation pay once this is over. We are sure this can't last forever right? For the same reason that they can't keep working now and then get paid retroactively later on. Because a furlough is a furlough is a furlough. Vacation pay is the same as working time pay, to a company.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Oct 1, 2013 13:54:56 GMT -5
I am trying to remember what happened the last time. Where I worked then had government contracts and some of our people did get furloughed because of it. My brain must be going because I can't be positive if I remember what ended up happening with people taking vacation during the furlough. I do remember it coming up because where people who were out on vacation or sick leave when the shutdown happened. I thought it ended up that people who were out on leave when it happened went on as if the shutdown didn't happen except that their paychecks were delayed.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 1, 2013 13:56:55 GMT -5
Beach we aren't sure the people who are totally furloughed will get back pay. That is why they can't take vacation days during a furlough.
For myself I have 100% of my usual workload and then some. I only work on activities related to mandatory funding anyway. It will be a change for those who normally work on discretionary activities. Our funding stream breaks down as 80% from mandatory sources and available even without appropriations and 20% from appropriations.
We are covered for this week since Monday was under FY2013. The only change this week is we cannot work on anything funded by the discretionary streams of funding. Starting next week if there is no deal we work 32 hours and are furloughed on Fridays. They say they will have the appropriate paperwork next week if necessary.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2013 13:59:16 GMT -5
I am trying to remember what happened the last time. Where I worked then had government contracts and some of our people did get furloughed because of it. My brain must be going because I can't be positive if I remember what ended up happening with people taking vacation during the furlough. I do remember it coming up because where people who were out on vacation or sick leave when the shutdown happened. I thought it ended up that people who were out on leave when it happened went on as if the shutdown didn't happen except that their paychecks were delayed. Think about it this way. The shutdown is because there is no money authorized to pay Employee A in my government agency. But if Employee A continues to work, my agency is legally obligated to pay them subject to Labor Law, so we make Employee A stop working. If Employee A, however, takes vacation or sick days, we are now still obligated to pay them for those hours, subject to Labor Law. Regardless of when the furlough ends, RIGHT NOW, my government agency has NO authority to legally obligate itself to pay wages that is has not received authorization to offer.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 1, 2013 14:00:13 GMT -5
Do you actually go into work, Phoenix, or are you being told to take the time off? I think that is what would determine whether he gets retroactively paid, Mr. Bill. Of course, I don't understand the federal government, but we only get paid for days worked. We were instructed to go to work for a maximum of four hours today in order to get everything in order and complete and orderly shutdown. After that, we are specifically told NOT to go to work, even for "free."
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2013 14:00:20 GMT -5
Beach we aren't sure the people who are totally furloughed will get back pay. That is why they can't take vacation days during a furlough. For myself I have 100% of my usual workload and then some. I only work on activities related to mandatory funding anyway. It will be a change for those who normally work on discretionary activities. Our funding stream breaks down as 80% from mandatory sources and available even without appropriations and 20% from appropriations. We are covered for this week since Monday was under FY2013. The only change this week is we cannot work on anything funded by the discretionary streams of funding. Starting next week if there is no deal we work 32 hours and are furloughed on Fridays. They say they will have the appropriate paperwork next week if necessary. This makes sense, because if you are doing 100% of the work for 80% of the pay, you would be violating some kind of labor regulation, I'm guessing.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 1, 2013 14:03:17 GMT -5
There's something about how we can still earn credit hours? I guess on a case by case basis? The reality is my workload didn't get cut 20%. My deadlines didn't change. While I may only work 32 hours next week if they can't approve a funding measure, at some point I have to get caught up.
I can't just hand my work off to people who used to do discretionary stuff. The mandatory activities are a totally different animal and getting up to speed takes a year usually.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 1, 2013 14:04:55 GMT -5
I might be joining you soon, phoenix... We are not exempt unless crap really hits the fan and too many things break. But, we might have funding for the first few weeks (most of our work is direct funded, at least for my crew). Or, We might be sent home after 4 hours. Good luck. Will your state allow you to take unemployment? I think ours does, but they we would have to pay it back if we do get paid... I think so. But there's a waiting period. If this drags on for more than 2 weeks or so, I may consider filing for unemployment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 14:17:23 GMT -5
VHA (Veteran's Health Administration; i.e. medical arm of the VA (hospitals, clinics, etc)) has about 95% of its funding (IT, research, construction are either exempt or furloughed). So I work my normal schedule (including scheduled overtime) and will get paid on time.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 1, 2013 14:18:31 GMT -5
What's happening with active duty military? Mr. Bill, aren't you active duty? I assume they are essentially considered exempt?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 1, 2013 14:20:00 GMT -5
We got really weird guidance. If you have FY13 project funds then you can continue working and get paid even if you are non-essential (we support the military and military operations), if you are essential but have no funds or are funded out of over head, you work and will get paid retroactively, if you have no FY13 project funds and are non-essential, then you are furloughed, no idea if you will get back pay. Sooo we have people on annual leave right now, are they now furloughed, but what if they change it to travel comp time which was previously paid for it seems that if we have people who got sent home and won't get back pay because they were admin, or other on over head or had no project funds left over and they don't get back pay...our union will have fit. It's not like we are getting furloughed through any fault of our own...but we are the ones who get the shaft for it Which catagory do you fall under? I know many military civilians will be furloughed. I have a friend who works for the Naval Shipyards, and he says more than 2/3 of their workforce has been furloughed.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 1, 2013 14:24:58 GMT -5
no takers on the back pay for furloughed civilians? Well, I may or may not have the money to wager. But I'll enter into a gentlemen's bet if you like. Don't get me wrong, I think they SHOULD give us back pay. After all, why should we suffer because congress has their heads' up their collective asses? But I just don't think the GOP house will go for it.
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Otto the Orange
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Post by Otto the Orange on Oct 1, 2013 14:25:33 GMT -5
What's happening with active duty military? Mr. Bill, aren't you active duty? I assume they are essentially considered exempt? They approved military pay, I posted the link in the how does the furlough affect me thread.....
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Otto the Orange
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Post by Otto the Orange on Oct 1, 2013 14:28:42 GMT -5
no takers on the back pay for furloughed civilians? Well, I may or may not have the money to wager. But I'll enter into a gentlemen's bet if you like. The loser is not allowed to post here for 1 week, but is allowed to log on and view and "like" comments. And the loser has to "like" all of the winners comments during that week. So if I post - "I think Phoenix is a turd" than you have to like it and it only counts if we both say we agree, no waffling
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 1, 2013 15:16:03 GMT -5
Well. I'm not opposed to entering such an agreement. The main problem is I'm scheduled to go on vacation next week. So if I won the bet, you wouldn't hear much from me because my internet connection would be spotty. Conversly, if you won, I wouldn't be able to like all your posts until I got back. So I'd have to find them and like them "retroactively." Anyways, if you're fine with that, then I guess we can agree to the wager.
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motherto2
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Post by motherto2 on Oct 1, 2013 15:53:24 GMT -5
I'm in the furloughed pot also. Years ago, when we went through this under Clinton, my boss and us three employees were exempt. After a couple of days went by, he had to send one home, then the other the next day. He and I ended up staying the duration. It was around a week. All furloughed employees got paid for their time off. I really don't expect that to happen this time, because let's face it - with sequestration continuing this FY, maybe we will be down the numbers and won't have to do it later in the year. Basically take our pay now or take it later this FY. I am less than 4 years from retirement, and boy wouldn't I love to go out early. Just not totally sure of the retirement figures . And WVgurl, I know the pain of having a full work load with less time to do it. Since we furloughed this summer, we had 2 less days a week during our busiest time of year - end of the FY. And had a bunch of mandatory training to finish by the end of the FY to include SAPR training that we had to travel to (on our own dime, not travel $). I had some pretty ugly work that needed to be awarded by 30 Sep - I finally had it all done on Friday, had one more thing that literally popped up yesterday as I was getting ready to leave for a Dr. appt. Got it done. My reward? Time off without pay. Buy het, I kept all the contractors at work and getting paid. Thanks for your service Motherto2.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 1, 2013 15:53:51 GMT -5
...:::"It has to do with the lack of performance by Congress. Not the people working in agencies and busting their butts every day. They've decided they are ok with innocent people and their paychecks being collateral damage in their pissing match.":::...
Agreed. Every single communication that we've gotten from all our "leaders" has explicitly stated words to the effect of "this is not a reflection of the work you do".
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 1, 2013 18:45:06 GMT -5
I don't understand expecting to get back pay for work not done. My company has mandatory shut down two weeks a year for the guys who work in the factory. That is two weeks, unpaid. There is no back pay or using vacation. The shut down is no fault of the guys. Why are government employees different? If you aren't working you don't get paid.
I'm actually jealous...I would gladly give up a few weeks salary for time away from the office
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sapphire12
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Post by sapphire12 on Oct 1, 2013 19:23:31 GMT -5
I'm also in the furlough camp. Meh, FWIW, I expect back pay, eventually. We just got paid Monday. The next paycheck is scheduled to be a week and 1 day. Technically, we are to get paid for 4 hours today as well. For me, the most stressful part is the uncertainty of how long this will last. I've changed a dentist appt to tomorrow from next week.
I have a goal to lose 5 pounds this week. This is doable if we stay out the rest of the week as I expect.
Insurance won't lapse, but for those with supplemental dental and/or vision plans, we received info that those people could receive a bill for payment if the reduced paycheck doesn't cover it. Yikes.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 1, 2013 19:35:41 GMT -5
I don't understand expecting to get back pay for work not done. My company has mandatory shut down two weeks a year for the guys who work in the factory. That is two weeks, unpaid. There is no back pay or using vacation. The shut down is no fault of the guys. Why are government employees different? If you aren't working you don't get paid. I'm actually jealous...I would gladly give up a few weeks salary for time away from the office People here have been saying the agencies didn't give appropriate, timely notice of the furloughs so they will be forced to give the back pay to those furloughed. I know with sequestration, it was a big deal when the letters were sent. They had to be given 30-60 days in advance. Obviously handing them out today doesn't satisfy that requirement. Sure leaving a hour early and getting an extra day off is nice, however, my workload hasn't been reduced. A lot of the people I need to deal with are furloughed. Catchup will be hell if this goes on for too long.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 1, 2013 19:40:59 GMT -5
I don't understand expecting to get back pay for work not done. My company has mandatory shut down two weeks a year for the guys who work in the factory. That is two weeks, unpaid. There is no back pay or using vacation. The shut down is no fault of the guys. Why are government employees different? If you aren't working you don't get paid. I'm actually jealous...I would gladly give up a few weeks salary for time away from the office People here have been saying the agencies didn't give appropriate, timely notice of the furloughs so they will be forced to give the back pay to those furloughed. I know with sequestration, it was a big deal when the letters were sent. They had to be given 30-60 days in advance. Obviously handing them out today doesn't satisfy that requirement. Sure leaving a hour early and getting an extra day off is nice, however, my workload hasn't been reduced. A lot of the people I need to deal with are furloughed. Catchup will be hell if this goes on for too long. I'm still calling BS on everyone getting paid for not working. I could walk into work tomorrow and get laid off for two months....no notice and no back pay.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 1, 2013 19:53:30 GMT -5
I don't understand expecting to get back pay for work not done. My company has mandatory shut down two weeks a year for the guys who work in the factory. That is two weeks, unpaid. There is no back pay or using vacation. The shut down is no fault of the guys. Why are government employees different? If you aren't working you don't get paid. especially in the context of ttsbbtc's post regarding scheduled overtime. If you expect to be paid extra for additional hours worked, it stands to reason that you DON'T get paid for hours not worked. Anything else is a case of having your cake and eating t too. Like MissT there is no pay for me if I don't work and no overtime either since I am exempt --- extra time worked is referred to as casual overtime and you can work it if needed or you know where the door is.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 1, 2013 20:00:18 GMT -5
For all of you affected by this furlough, hang in there. Hopefully, it won't last long. Congress may surprise us all and pull their heads from their collective nether orifices long enough to put this right. Damn them!
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 1, 2013 20:05:55 GMT -5
People here have been saying the agencies didn't give appropriate, timely notice of the furloughs so they will be forced to give the back pay to those furloughed. I know with sequestration, it was a big deal when the letters were sent. They had to be given 30-60 days in advance. Obviously handing them out today doesn't satisfy that requirement. Sure leaving a hour early and getting an extra day off is nice, however, my workload hasn't been reduced. A lot of the people I need to deal with are furloughed. Catchup will be hell if this goes on for too long. I'm still calling BS on everyone getting paid for not working. I could walk into work tomorrow and get laid off for two months....no notice and no back pay. Historically they have been paid during past shutdowns. I know there were very strict rules governing furloughs and proper notice of those during sequestration in fiscal 2013. Much stricter than state laws governing private sector employees. If that notice requirement holds true in this case, they will be sued if they don't give the backpay. Luckily I'm excepted because my unit has majorly strict rules on outside employment. Kind of hard to pick up outside work that has to be approved by your furloughed ethics staff.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 1, 2013 20:12:31 GMT -5
For all of you affected by this furlough, hang in there. Hopefully, it won't last long. Congress may surprise us all and pull their heads from their collective nether orifices long enough to put this right. Damn them! While I don't understand the getting paid for not working thing I do hope that this furlough thing will be over soon for the sake of everyone affected. I also just discovered how serious they are about this closing the government down. I just got this message: " Because of the federal government shutdown, all national parks are closed and National Park Service webpages are not operating. For more information, go to www.doi.gov."
Not even government websites are allowed to work. When they say "shutdown" they d*mn well mean "shutdown"
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 1, 2013 20:21:19 GMT -5
I saw screen shots of the websites in a Washington Post article earlier.
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Otto the Orange
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Post by Otto the Orange on Oct 1, 2013 23:29:05 GMT -5
People here have been saying the agencies didn't give appropriate, timely notice of the furloughs so they will be forced to give the back pay to those furloughed. I know with sequestration, it was a big deal when the letters were sent. They had to be given 30-60 days in advance. Obviously handing them out today doesn't satisfy that requirement. Sure leaving a hour early and getting an extra day off is nice, however, my workload hasn't been reduced. A lot of the people I need to deal with are furloughed. Catchup will be hell if this goes on for too long. I'm still calling BS on everyone getting paid for not working. I could walk into work tomorrow and get laid off for two months....no notice and no back pay. You can call BS all you want, it doesn't change the fact they will be paid retroactively if you want to "bet" on it let me know
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Otto the Orange
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Post by Otto the Orange on Oct 1, 2013 23:30:59 GMT -5
For all of you affected by this furlough, hang in there. Hopefully, it won't last long. Congress may surprise us all and pull their heads from their collective nether orifices long enough to put this right. Damn them! While I don't understand the getting paid for not working thing I do hope that this furlough thing will be over soon for the sake of everyone affected. I also just discovered how serious they are about this closing the government down. I just got this message: " Because of the federal government shutdown, all national parks are closed and National Park Service webpages are not operating. For more information, go to www.doi.gov."
Not even government websites are allowed to work. When they say "shutdown" they d*mn well mean "shutdown"
could be the web administrators are laid off, but most likely, like I said earlier, Obama has discretion to make the shutdown as more painful or less painful as he wants.....why did the republicans go on this suicide mission?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 2, 2013 0:15:28 GMT -5
I heard their strategy of losing elections was starting to look shaky for 2014 so all the big thinkers in the party got together and decided this was the best way to shoot themselves in the foot. It's a bold play, it'll be fun to see if it guarantees a loss or if they'll have to dig up some atrocious candidates as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 0:47:20 GMT -5
Perhaps this is just a rehearsal, a trial run for shutting down the government again next year in advance of the November elections. They're trying to gauge how many votes the shutdown will guarantee them... lol
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