For your reading pleasure.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 15, 2013 10:25:04 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

OMG I was so insulted by this drivel that I stopped reading half way though.

I didn't make it though the long-winded sentence in the 1st paragraph.

I had Catholic schools in the 70s and 80s.  Grade school didn't push college for anyone, really.  My parents take on college was "you're going and you're paying for it, we can't afford it."  Our high schools were college prepish so it was assumed, more or less, that you'd go. 

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2013 10:20:41 GMT -5 milee said:

Sept 16, 2013 10:09:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

He had an affair with their 15 year old babysitter.  He was prosecuded and is considered a Sex offender. 

Because this is not "an affair".  It is rape.  Calling it "an affair" minimizes it.  An adult male that preys on a minor over which he has power and authority isn't romancing her, he's grooming and then victimizing her.  And the exact same thing is true for adult women who prey on underage boys.

My Grandpa, one of the nicest men ever to walk this earth, would have been a sex offender under today's laws.  Very sad.

[skubikky]

Sept 16, 2013 9:51:10 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sept 16, 2013 8:22:18 GMT -5 skubikky said:

And I'll refer back to the first line highlighted.  These are YOUR views.  Particularly your definition of freedom.  And my dear,  it wasn't your generation alone that broke down barriers.   That has been an evolutionary process that began thousands of years ago.  It is still developing simply because the human spirit seeks freedom.

I respect that you hold your own personal opinions, that is your right as it is for each individual.  But be aware that some of your statements might sound as ridiculous to others as the article did.  You have not cornered the market on the "right" way to live any more so than anyone else.  And each of us must walk our own path.  The most effective witness for faith that I have observed is when one doesn't  frame comments in adversarial fashion but provide their love and actions as a guide.  Usually the most inspiring amongst us are those that say the least but do the most.

I never thought I cornered the market. I was under the impression this board was a free exchange of ideas. I stand corrected. I will no longer give opinions on anything. Thank you for putting me in my place. And, don't 'my dear' me. It's offensive.

Then you all wonder why posting is low.

I was providing one element of that "free exchange".  That which might include reading something that you didn't agree with and then responding to it.  All within the bounds of "opinion".  And mind is no more valid than yours.  I wasn't correcting you, I was stating my view.  Having a discussion with someone who doesn't share your view is often, I have found, the way to learn.  Someone who agrees with me usually doesn't have much to get my attention.  But someone with a very different view point does. 

[Deleted]

[formerroomate99]

When I went to a very conservative catholic college, there were some girls there who were majoring in something useless and spending all their free time trying to find a husband.  All I could think was that no amount of education could help someone with such an unempowered attitude and that college was a complete waste of money for such a person.  But when I went to a state school, I didn't see a huge increase in female empowerment.  There were still lots of little girls majoring in something equally useless, screwing everything that moves, no real career goals in mind, probably just hoping to land a rich man once they are done partying. 

So IMHO, if you're not going to raise your daughter (or son) to be empowered and assertive, to look out for herself and think of her future, then college is probably a potentially dangerous waste of money, no matter what your religious or political bent is.  You don't have to be a right wing bible thumper to raise a daughter (or son) who has no spine or common sense. 

[973beachbum]

Sept 16, 2013 9:58:28 GMT -5 Opti said:

They still burn brides there. They still force young girls to marry old men there. Many parts of India have not changed even though the laws have.

I am aware of this. And I may be wrong in my perception that the tide has turned and things like the above will continue to happen less often. When I first started working after college in the mid 80s I met the occasional techie male from India. I'd say around 2000 or so women techies from India started showing up in the US in noticeable numbers. Its a very diverse country and having talked to various co-workers it seems experiences are very regional in many ways. Those from the south in areas heavily populated with Christian and Catholic churches are the easiest for me to relate to viewpoint-wise. And some Indian males are very gender typed and will go on and on about how women shouldn't bare their arms etc. I find that odd in that most commercial Bollywood films in my opinion are very sexualized and over-expose their female stars even though most still will portray no more than kisses and hugs if the characters are not yet married.

Its a country that in some ways mirrors NYC and its various neighborhoods. Its not that cohesive and languages and customs vary depending on where you are. Obviously any women who has come here even briefly and even those working in India with US companies
are part of the moving forward portion of India.

We have a freind who came here as a child from India, who recently moved back for a job. He said that some places like Mumbai or New Delhi that have a lot of expats and foriegn companies are pretty progressive today, Things like women being treated like property happens much less there. He said the problem is that India has huge swaths of rural areas run by tribe type rulers with little to no worry about anyone actually making them follow the laws.  they basically do whatever they see fit and it includes letting things like killing your present wife after you get her dowary, so you can get a new wife's dowary.   

He said that he would never stay there if he had kids.  He loves the memories he has of his childhood but he doesn't want his children to be raised in that enviornment.

[Opti]

And just because you're meeting more female professionals from India doesn't mean that they are treated as equals.

Did you read anywhere in my post that I said they were? I am quite aware of the discrimination they face even when they just work here under Indian bosses male or female. My meeting more female professionals from India was an example of things are changing. I'd appreciate you didn't assume I have certain views when I haven't stated them one way or the other. 

FWIW, I know several professionals, mostly male who have had arranged marriages.
The most recent one I knew about was probably in 2002. He went with it because in his piece part of India it could have meant a social stigma for him and his parents if he did not marry an appropriate Indian woman with the right religion, language, etc.

[sarcasticgirl]

read this article?



I just can't. 

[milee]

Sept 16, 2013 11:28:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

And just because you're meeting more female professionals from India doesn't mean that they are treated as equals.

Did you read anywhere in my post that I said they were? I am quite aware of the discrimination they face even when they just work here under Indian bosses male or female. My meeting more female professionals from India was an example of things are changing. I'd appreciate you didn't assume I have certain views when I haven't stated them one way or the other. 

  Re-read.  Along those lines - did you read anything in my post that said you had any particular view?  My only reference to you was that you are meeting female professionals, there was no conclusion on what your views or opinions were regarding those professionals...

My post on female professionals was an example of how things may be changing but the issues are still there. 

[Taxman10]

Awesomest list ever!!

I just saved myself 4 years of future college tution!!

#4 wasn't too far off base though

[Taxman10]

Sept 14, 2013 23:41:43 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

LMAO!!  I saw this title on the right of the part you all are discussing:  ... - resurrecting manhood today and couldn't stop laughing enough to read it. 

Plus I didn't want to ruin my buzz I got going on tonight. 

I believe in resurrecting manhood everyday...

[Taxman10]

Sept 16, 2013 10:02:41 GMT -5 @mmc said:

Sept 16, 2013 9:46:19 GMT -5 milee said:

IMHO this is another example of boys will be boys and that's OK, but it's a big deal when women do anything sexual outside of a traditional marriage.

We remember that one of the girls on Saved by the Bell became a stripper, but no mention is made of the boy from Saved by the Bell who went on to make a porno film - with an underage girl (and no, this was not a boyfriend/younger girlfriend situation.)

I'm not saying I'd be thrilled for a daughter to become a stripper, but it's not as icky as being in a porno, yet the example we remember is when the female star is a stripper, not when the male star becomes a porn star.

Or that I never knew someone from SBTB was in a porno... 

IMHO this is another example of what assumptions get you.

Dustin Diamon did a porn - i never heard the girl was underage.

Elizabeth Berkley was in Showgirls - which was basically porn, only with worse acting (I....uh....heard that anyway...I never saw it...)

[mrsdutt]

Sept 16, 2013 10:14:58 GMT -5 imawino said:

Sept 16, 2013 9:55:14 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

That was said in jest. See the ?

Which part was supposed to be funny? 

[mrsdutt]

Sept 16, 2013 10:36:35 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Sept 16, 2013 9:51:10 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

I never thought I cornered the market. I was under the impression this board was a free exchange of ideas. I stand corrected. I will no longer give opinions on anything. Thank you for putting me in my place. And, don't 'my dear' me. It's offensive.

Then you all wonder why posting is low.

I was providing one element of that "free exchange".  That which might include reading something that you didn't agree with and then responding to it.  All within the bounds of "opinion".  And mind is no more valid than yours.  I wasn't correcting you, I was stating my view.  Having a discussion with someone who doesn't share your view is often, I have found, the way to learn.  Someone who agrees with me usually doesn't have much to get my attention.  But someone with a very different view point does. 

My remark had more to do with the delivery of your post than what you wrote about the article, or even me not reading it. I respect all views, whether I agree with them or not. I also respect those who earn it.

I think you know that if you have paid attention to my previous posts.  People can choose to argue about minute topics or walk away.  My choice is to walk away.  Life is too short for continual conflict.  IMHO  You are entitled to yours.  I will respect yours.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2013 12:40:05 GMT -5 Taxman10 said:

Sept 16, 2013 10:02:41 GMT -5 @mmc said:

Or that I never knew someone from SBTB was in a porno... 

IMHO this is another example of what assumptions get you.

Dustin Diamon did a porn - i never heard the girl was underage.

Elizabeth Berkley was in Showgirls - which was basically porn, only with worse acting (I....uh....heard that anyway...I never saw it...)

oh man, that guy. I had to look it up on wikipedia - "Screeched – Saved by the Smell" was the name.

[bean29]

Sept 16, 2013 10:20:41 GMT -5 milee said:

Sept 16, 2013 10:09:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

He had an affair with their 15 year old babysitter.  He was prosecuded and is considered a Sex offender. 

Because this is not "an affair".  It is rape.  Calling it "an affair" minimizes it.  An adult male that preys on a minor over which he has power and authority isn't romancing her, he's grooming and then victimizing her.  And the exact same thing is true for adult women who prey on underage boys.

Kind of like the CNN headline today about the 8 year old who "died after her wedding night".  The headline should be "8 year old raped, dies as a result of injuries."  This is not "child marriage", this is child abuse and we need to use the right language.

I in no way meant to imply that it was ok.  I do consider it statutory rape.  I do not think Children can give consent.  I do however have a problem with the gray area of a 19 year old and a 17 year old who went to school together  having an illegal relationship. 

I just hate all the holier than though people in this world.  My Cousin in a Devout Catholic.  Her DH was Catholic.  They got Married in the church.  The babysitter's family went to their church, which was a consideration in hiring her.  The article implies that as long as you choose your Man well nothing bad is going to happen.  Well  often it is a matter of "There but for the grace of God Go I".  Sometimes life happens.  Sometimes people change.  Sometimes you get taken in by a Con-Artist.  Maybe there is a "Devil" that tempts people to do bad things.  Sometimes you send your children to Catholic School and there are pedophiles in their midst. 

It is better for a family if both parties a ready willing and able to go to work.  You have to be ever-vigilant to protedct your family from bad things.  Just because you go to church does not mean everything will work out fine.

I don't know what to say about places like India and Africa where rape seems to be accepted and illegal at the same time.  I do think in order to move into the modern world  they will need to prosecute rapists and end child marriages. 

[violagirl]

I was raised in a fairly religious conservative family by many standards. University was not an option for me when I graduated high school. My older brothers went to a 2 year college and I was offered the same opportunity, but it had a limited selection of career directions none of which appealed to me at the time. I knew when I got older I wanted to be a volunteer minister, but I really did not even think about how I was going to make a living while doing so. Many of my friends were in a similar situation. Generally we would do cleaning because you can make more money per hour than working a minimum wage job. Some people enjoy that type of manual labour because as one friend said, it gave him time to think. Other people like me absolutely hated it. 

I believe it was my parents view that I would get married and then be supported by my husband. And in their view, as my Dad who only has a Grade 9 education, 2 year college was about as far as you would want to go. In looking back, I never really thought about it. I did get married at 21 and at 25 when I decided I needed a full time job and no way was I going to work 40 hours a week for minimum wage at the mall, he supported me through getting my degree too. He obviously did not have the same outlook as the writer of the article. But I wouldnt' have married him if he did. 

In the case of the guy writing the article, I think religion is only a guise for him. Some people, in my opinion, have very black and white ways of thinking. When in reality, most decisions we make are in grey areas. To me, he is one of those men that take the "man is head of the woman" thing and twist it to an extreme - women should be wives and mothers and that is it. And forget that, in this case, the Bible also describes the capable wife as being a shrewd businesswoman as someone has already pointed out. I think even if he was an atheist he would still be a misogynist. I don't know if misogynist is too harsh but what he says is couched in very, hmm...paternalistic? language - I'm not sure how to describe it. Like "don't worry your pretty little head about that dear". Condescending maybe?

I'm not sure why only women cant' control themselves in college, but men apparently can.   

[Taxman10]

Sept 16, 2013 13:15:44 GMT -5 @mmc said:

Sept 16, 2013 12:40:05 GMT -5 Taxman10 said:

Dustin Diamon did a porn - i never heard the girl was underage.

Elizabeth Berkley was in Showgirls - which was basically porn, only with worse acting (I....uh....heard that anyway...I never saw it...)

oh man, that guy. I had to look it up on wikipedia - "Screeched – Saved by the Smell" was the name.

LMAO!!! that's a great name!!