*Update* Being the bad guy at work

[Phoenix84]

How do you deal with employees or contractors at work who are under performing or not getting their work done? 

To be more specific, I'm referring to employees or contractors that you are not directly responsible for. 

The situation is I have a contractor that we paid nine months ago for a report who hasn't delivered yet.  We really need it by next week and I've reminded him repeatedly over the last several months.  Everytime I do, I get a "oh, I'll have it to you by the end of the day, or next week."  But it never comes. 

I hate being the bad guy, and don't want to make threats, but I feel like I have no alternative.  On the other hand, I don't want to piss the guy off because then we'll never get what we need. 

I want to be firm, but not go overboard.  How do you know the difference?

[Deleted]

Go to either his boss or the manager in your organization who's respobsible for hiring him and phrase it as a concern for this person- "I'm really concerned baout X because he hasn't been able to meet our deadlines. Is there anything else we can do/anything he needs from us to make sure that we get that report in 24 hours?" Never mind pissing him off- if he's working for a firm, they'll want to keep your business. If he's solo practice, You still need to team up with the person who's making decisions about which contractors to use.

Tomorrow I've got a meeting on something similar- my staff has spent insane amounts of time explaining our input sheets to someone in another department who's supposed to fill them out with client data and she's either not interested, incapable, or both. I phrased my request in terms of "I'd like to meet with you to discuss how we can support L because she's still not catching on.." Her boss responded immediately and asked for more feedback. I suspect he knows he's got a problem and is looking for more ammunition to get rid of her. I feel bad for her but the only other solution is for my staff to do her work for her and that ain't gonna happen.

I should also mention that the final nail in the coffin of a guy we fired 6 months ago was when someone from outside the department said, "I hate to make trouble, but I don't want E working on any of my projects anymore."  We knew he was a problem, we'd done everything we could, and I had a talk with HR.  He was gone less than a week later.  And I told the woman who made the reqest that she was NOT being a trouble-maker and we appreciated the feedback.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Several months?  I go to my supervisor/theirs whichever one can make the person move his ass.  I'll be nice/negociate for awhile but if I don't see results and it's impacting my ability to do my job I find the person who has the authority/power to get it done.

I'm not accusatory or anything.   I'll simply mention that I noticed I haven't gotten X and was told the timeline was Y.  I wanted to know if my information was still correct or not because I've been operating under the impression that it is.

If it's because I have incorrect information, they'll tell me.  If it's because the other person has been dragging his feet, they'll take care of that too and get back to me.

It's not personal it's business.  If the dwaddler gets mad at me that's his problem.  I usually don't have trouble with them professionally because they're now aware they're being watched.

[tskeeter]

Sept 9, 2013 13:12:28 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

How do you deal with employees or contractors at work who are under performing or not getting their work done? 

To be more specific, I'm referring to employees or contractors that you are not directly responsible for. 

The situation is I have a contractor that we paid nine months ago for a report who hasn't delivered yet.  We really need it by next week and I've reminded him repeatedly over the last several months.  Everytime I do, I get a "oh, I'll have it to you by the end of the day, or next week."  But it never comes. 

I hate being the bad guy, and don't want to make threats, but I feel like I have no alternative.  On the other hand, I don't want to piss the guy off because then we'll never get what we need. 

I want to be firm, but not go overboard.  How do you know the difference?

Who is this contractor accountable to?  Who initiated the PO? 


One way to deal with this situation is to contact the contractor and tell them, "we're up against the deadline and I really don't want to have to tell X that we will be late because we don't have your report yet".  If that doesn't get you the report in 24 hours, contact the person who the contractor is accountable to and ask for their assistance getting the information you need.  

[Deleted]

I usually call their boss when it comes to Vendors or call my boss and have them call their boss.

When it comes to those that report to me I deal with it directly.

Confrontation is one thing I am not afraid off and being the bad guy is what I get paid to do.

[midjd]

I hate being the bad guy, and don't want to make threats, but I feel like I have no alternative. On the other hand, I don't want to piss the guy off because then we'll never get what we need.

IMO it's not a "threat" if you're just stating the consequences of what will happen if a certain course of action isn't followed.

E.g. "If we don't have this report by EOB tomorrow, we're going to have to [cancel the project][pay a penalty, which will be taken out of your fee][etc.]" - any reasonable consequence of their delay. 

vs. "If we don't have this report by EOB tomorrow, you'll never work in this town again!"

I'm much, much better at having those conversations by email/letter than on the phone or in person (plus then you have a nice trail in case you need to CYA later). But if someone's failure to deliver by the time promised is causing problems, I have no problem bringing this to their attention, and have never seen that as a threat - just a factual statement.

[Phoenix84]

The problem is this guy is the owner and CEO of the company, so there is no higher authority to go to.  Furthermore, we paid with a government credit card, and didn't go through a contracting process.  We didn't have to because the cost was below $2500. 

In the future, I'll probably only pay half up front, so at least I have a carrot to dangle in front of them. 

I can make threats.  We do have another contract with them for a lot of money that is coming due again in April, that did go through the contracting process.  I can threaten to not renew the contract, or just threaten not to do any business with them again outside the contract (meaning not hire them for future decommissioning reports).  I just didn't know if that was going too far. 

[Abby Normal]

Do you have the power to not renew the contract?  If so I think it's certainly worth mentioning to him.  You could just say something like his inability to complete the project in a timely manner will have to be considered when you renew your other contract as they are clearly too busy to sufficiently meet your needs.

[Phoenix84]

I don't have unilateral authority to not renew their contract.  But any input I give to management would be taken very seriously.  I'm the "end user" of their services, so if I express displeasure, the people paying the bills have no reason to doubt me.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2013 16:36:39 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I don't have unilateral authority to not renew their contract.  But any input I give to management would be taken very seriously.  I'm the "end user" of their services, so if I express displeasure, the people paying the bills have no reason to doubt me.

So why did you wait so long to express displeasure?

We are not talking days or weeks delay here, we are talking months. You have cut this guy more than "some slack".

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"The problem is this guy is the owner and CEO of the company, so there is no higher authority to go to. Furthermore, we paid with a government credit card, and didn't go through a contracting process. We didn't have to because the cost was below $2500.

In the future, I'll probably only pay half up front, so at least I have a carrot to dangle in front of them.

I can make threats. We do have another contract with them for a lot of money that is coming due again in April, that did go through the contracting process. I can threaten to not renew the contract, or just threaten not to do any business with them again outside the contract (meaning not hire them for future decommissioning reports). I just didn't know if that was going too far.":::...

Damn these blasted bloodsucking contractors, and damn us for paying in full up front, then not canning their asses the first time they screw us.

I serve as COR on a few contracts, and if a deliverable is not met, it will be documented, and they won't get paid.  I would have already documented my concern as well as all the conversations we'd had about the importance of this report.  

He hasn't failed to perform "yet".  Maybe he will come through.  You are probably going to have to let him stake his reputation on this report.  

If he misses it, note his performance, and make sure you let whoever is responsible for the larger contract know.  Bad performance can hurt his ability to get contracts with plenty of agencies.  I believe you can document him as a company and as an individual, just in case he tries to change the name of his company.  Strike a mighty blow for all of us!

[ZaireinHD]

this happens at my place of work so often - I was in the same boat
me ALWAYS being the "nice guy"
until one day I said fuck it - I ain't get'n this report now anyway so why not be argumentative, hostile, threatening, and demanding!

LOL - cause I don't know how and it's really not in my character! that's why! 

so I went to his boss, told his boss I'm in need of this report, showed his boss email trails of how long and how many times my requests have gone unanswered, pushed away, stalled, and showed he fucker had plenty of time to deliver.

fortunately so very fortunately i want to add - his boss cared! and gave him the order and I got my report!

fucker didn't like that I went to his boss and actually said to me - I didn't have to go to his boss! he had the report for me and was about to send it.

I said ok great report was done and I finally got it.

LOL - oh WOW Zaire great come back!!

[mmhmm]

Glad you got your report, Zaire.  Some people can certainly be PITAs.  Could we, though, maybe do with a few less "f-bombs" the next time we discuss your workplace?  We knew what the guy was after the first "f-bomb" reference. 

[susanb]

Pheonix, when was the charge authorized on the credit card?

Generally credit card companies offer a 6 month window for chargebacks.  I would call the credit card issuer and ask them what your recourse is through them.  If services haven't been delivered, and the charges were authorized 6 months ago or less, you should have some leverage. 

[mmhmm]

Phoenix, have you discussed this with your superior?  It sounds to me like you've been in contact with the contractor several times and have not gotten a satisfactory response.  At this point, I'd go to my superior and let him/her know what's going on and that your work is being held up/jeopardized by the failure of the contractor to perform.  Let your superior take it from there.

[Deleted]

Sounds like a lesson for the future. You guys paid him in full up front? 9 months for under $2500 - is his product less than 15 hours of work?

If I had a written statement of work and the person/company is in violation of the terms, then I would have our legal department look into it normally.  For such a small amount, they would say eat it though.

Which maybe is what you should do. Can you hire someone else to produce this ASAP and ban the loser from all future work?

[skubikky]

Sept 9, 2013 16:06:27 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

The problem is this guy is the owner and CEO of the company, so there is no higher authority to go to.  Furthermore, we paid with a government credit card, and didn't go through a contracting process.  We didn't have to because the cost was below $2500. 

In the future, I'll probably only pay half up front, so at least I have a carrot to dangle in front of them. 

I can make threats.  We do have another contract with them for a lot of money that is coming due again in April, that did go through the contracting process.  I can threaten to not renew the contract, or just threaten not to do any business with them again outside the contract (meaning not hire them for future decommissioning reports).  I just didn't know if that was going too far. 

Is the cost for the upcoming contract below $2500 also?  Perhaps this is a small job for them and they don't give it as much attention as it should get?

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I'm sorry you're having difficulty. 

I am surprised, as a government entity, you were allowed to pay upfront. 

Saying something along the lines of "I need <the product> by Wednesday or I'll have AR send you a bill to collect the fee we paid several months ago"  might suffice. 

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"At this point, I'd go to my superior and let him/her know what's going on and that your work is being held up/jeopardized by the failure of the contractor to perform. Let your superior take it from there.":::...

Definitely prepare everyone concerned for the fact that this guy might not deliver.  The way you are explaining it, he hasn't failed "yet".  You are concerned because you are getting a bunch of "don't worry, it'll be fine" lip service.

If he does not deliver, or if he under-delivers (depending on how specific your requirements were), yes; go after him.  It seems likely you'll eat the money, but this guy is an idiot because the black mark on his performance could cost him 10x or 100x what he's stolen.

[Phoenix84]

No, he hasn't failed yet, but the deadline is early next week.  We're coming down to the wire.  I'm not looking forward to having to go to a meeting and explain to a committee why we can't release their spaces from controls. 

I've reminded him as of yesterday.  I'll send one more reminder later in the week, with lots of strong language.

[movingforward]

Sept 10, 2013 13:39:41 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

No, he hasn't failed yet, but the deadline is early next week.  We're coming down to the wire.  I'm not looking forward to having to go to a meeting and explain to a committee why we can't release their spaces from controls. 

I've reminded him as of yesterday.  I'll send one more reminder later in the week, with lots of strong language.

He may just be one of these people that doesn't send anything until the deadline.  I personally have problems with those type of people but he technically isn't late.  Maybe he just likes waiting until the last minute. 

Also, this is generally why when I give someone a deadline it is actually 2 weeks before I really need it.  I hate waiting until the last minute for stuff and/or doing things at the last minute but it doesn't seem to bother some people.  There is a person in my office who can't meet a deadline to save her life.   She has been working there for 15 yrs.  Not sure why she wasn't let go long ago but now the company seems afraid to get rid of her because she has been around for so long. 

[midjd]

He may just be one of these people that doesn't send anything until the deadline.

This is why I always give people fake early deadlines

[Phoenix84]

When someone gives me a deadline, I always try to exceed it.  Depending on what it is, at least a day or two.

[Phoenix84]

It's clear paying up front was a mistake.  What's the standard way of doing things when hiring a contractor to do work for you?  For example, if you hire someone to retile your bathroom?  Do you pay half up front and half when the job is done?  Or do you pay all of it after the work is complete?

I don't think we have ny legal recourse.  Legal would laugh in our faces for such a little amount, about $2000.00.  I may talk to my boss about it, but I hate bugging her with stuff.

[midjd]

The last time we had a contractor submit a report, I think we divided his total fee into monthly installments and he was required to provide a brief progress report each month.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

For example, if you hire someone to retile your bathroom? Do you pay half up front and half when the job is done

That's what we did with our roof at home.

At work when we order something nobody gets paid until the product has been documented by purchasing as recieved.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"What's the standard way of doing things when hiring a contractor to do work for you? For example, if you hire someone to retile your bathroom? Do you pay half up front and half when the job is done? Or do you pay all of it after the work is complete?":::...

Thats not necessarily apples to apples.  I feel like most home repair contractors get paid up front.  I always pay with a CC so I can do a chargeback.

You made a purchase that was under the micro purchase threshold, so I get why you paid up front.  It seems like this was for support on a single job, which he has yet to finish.  The contracts I work on are year long support services contracts with monthly status reports.  If something isn't done, it gets noted and we would be within our right to withhold payment.

I'll assume this guy works remotely.  Shame you can't bring HIM to the meeting and roast him.  Maybe you can at least do a video conference?

[Phoenix84]

Sept 10, 2013 14:48:06 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"What's the standard way of doing things when hiring a contractor to do work for you? For example, if you hire someone to retile your bathroom? Do you pay half up front and half when the job is done? Or do you pay all of it after the work is complete?":::...

Thats not necessarily apples to apples.  I feel like most home repair contractors get paid up front.  I always pay with a CC so I can do a chargeback.

You made a purchase that was under the micro purchase threshold, so I get why you paid up front.  It seems like this was for support on a single job, which he has yet to finish.  The contracts I work on are year long support services contracts with monthly status reports.  If something isn't done, it gets noted and we would be within our right to withhold payment.

I'll assume this guy works remotely.  Shame you can't bring HIM to the meeting and roast him.  Maybe you can at least do a video conference?

Yes.  He works in another state.  He sends one of his employees out here for one week a month to provide technician support for my job.  That's the "big" contract that's worth about 80k or so.  Completely separate and unrelated to this, I hired him to conduct the measurements and complete other tasks associated with decomissioning a laboratory space.  The readings have been taken, the report just needs to be completed.  Decomissioning was not part of the statement of work of our "big" contract, so I hired him for a specific task, which was less than the amount required to go through the contracting process.

[Angel!]

Why was his paid upfront?  Is that SOP for your line of work?

FWIW, we never get paid upfront nor do we ever pay upfront.  We bill out monthly for the work completed - either in terms of hourly labor or in terms of % complete for a flat fee job.  All our contractors are paid either the same way - from monthly billings on work complete or as a lump sum after receiving the deliverables for jobs that are very short term.

Depending on how you have approached him so far, I would absolutely threaten to stop working with this guy.  If your contact with him was more as reminders, telling him the deadline is X date next week, well then technically he isn't late yet.  If your contact with him has been along the lines of "We need the report by X date" and the date given was several weeks/months ago, then he is well past late. 

If he hasn't technically missed the deadline you have given him, then just wait him out and hope he follows through.  Next time give him an early fake deadline.  If you asked for the report to be completed months ago, then I would say you absolutely need it by EOB Friday (or even Wednesday/Thursday) and make it very clear that you will not be able to do any future work with him if he fails to deliver. 

Don't look at it as a threat.  Look at it as cutting ties with someone that doesn't meet deadlines and responds with BS about it being done today.  If there are better contractors out there, then you shouldn't put up with someone that doesn't care how they come across as a contractor and has no interest in making their client happy.

[muttleynfelix]

FWIW, we never get paid upfront nor do we ever pay upfront. We bill out monthly for the work completed - either in terms of hourly labor or in terms of % complete for a flat fee job. All our contractors are paid either the same way - from monthly billings on work complete or as a lump sum after receiving the deliverables for jobs that are very short term.

That is our SOP too.  Occasionally if we have a new client that is a first time developer/business owner building for the first time, we will ask for half up front because those are the people less willing to pay if things don't work out and the only people we've ever had to send to collections.

It sounds like you are needing the report before you go to the meeting but gave the deadline as the day of the meeting.  Next time give the deadline a little sooner.

On the flip side, I have 2 good sized projects due on the 20th. Since it is just me and my boss and we didn't get released to do them until last week, we will probably blow one of the deadlines.  Hopefully not and I will do the best I can not to blow it, but it is going to be tight.