The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 29, 2013 16:08:10 GMT -5
This is very timely as last night was DD's parent orientation night and open house for grades 5-8 (upper level in our school).
EVERY 5-8 grade teacher was there. DD has 30 kids in her class. 28 of them were represented by parents at the open house (in several cases both parents). We went from classroom to classroom meeting the teacher and getting an overview of the education plan for the year and the in-house and online resources availble to them. Teachers provided their e-mails and let us know the times they would be available before and after school to provide extra assistance.
What kind of parental participation rates do you think they get at the public schools?
Two of DD's teachers are new this year. One of them explained why his resume (they all provided them) showed him leaving the private school system to teach in public schools, only to return to private schools two years later. He spoke of a recent conversation with a friend of his that was still at the public HS...
First day of school - 300 kids, 7 fights, 14 suspensions for gang signs/colors/inappropriate clothing and 6 pregnancies. The teacher had alread been cursed at by students no less than 7 times and had to manage 17 IDEP's. Oh, and several weapons confiscated after the metal dectectors were set off.
He decided the pay differential was not worth the bullshit and got back into private education as quickly as he could. I don't blame him.
He is certified to teach HS and Grade school. He is also certified to teach German, English, 5-8th grade math in addition to Algebra as well as (not relevant but nice to know) all levels of HS math up to an including Trigonometry.
He has a website set up with practice tests, homework examples, and math challenges of the day. DH couldn't wait to check out the content.
Their loss, our gain.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Aug 29, 2013 16:12:22 GMT -5
I think it is a faulty assumption that each child learns the same way and therefore should be educated the same way. How many years did it take for the schools to implement differentiated instruction in the classrooms? And they are only now coming into the realization that education should be standardized across the country (CCSS.) But hey, let's just all the kids in the same classroom and what happens, happens. It almost sounds like she doesn't believe in special ed either. If I had kids, I would like to think that I would give the public schools a chance, and supplement their lessons with experiences outside of the classroom. But if I can afford it, and I know it would be the easier way, I wouldn't be opposed to going private.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 29, 2013 16:23:21 GMT -5
We'll do public schools. But our school district is small enough that our kids will actually get more individualized attention at the public school level than the private school options (assuming trends continue in the next 2-5 years). But I am not opposed to private school or even homeschooling if public school just isn't working. I think being inflexible with your kids with anything is a recipe for disaster.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 29, 2013 16:48:55 GMT -5
I agree with reader and mutt. I'm of those *gasp* dreaded liberals but I disagree with the author. She seems to forget two things in her article: 1) that parents have the responsibility/moral obligation to do what is best for their child, and 2) there is an array of options for "doing what is best" for some very important reasons. "Best" depends on the needs of the child - this is NOT one of those situations where "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one." Responsible parents doing what is best for their child will ultimately be what is best for society because the child with a solid moral/social compass and good education will have the heart, soul and intellectual smarts to turn around and benefit "the many." There are many, many (many) ways to support public education "for the good of the many" while having your child in private or parochial school because that is what is best for that particular child. The two are not mutually exclusive. My belief and I'm sticking to it
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 29, 2013 17:23:34 GMT -5
When the public schools are able to toss out disruptive children and kids can safely walk the halls and use the restrooms, then we will talk public schools. Feral parents raise feral children and then inflict them on society. Thanks but no thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2013 20:41:39 GMT -5
Nowhere did I read that the author has children. Let's check back in a few years and see if her opinion changes. ETA: I am the product of a complete public school education. My parents were not that involved in my education other than when I was 10 and they tried to get my teacher removed who kept showing up drunk. They (and some other parents) took it all the way to the school board who allowed drunk teacher to "retire" two years later. Years later, it dawned on me that the principal and the secretary were all drinking buddies. This wasn't some rinky dink school system but the San Diego Unified School District. Other than that one incident, I actually had one of the finest public school educations possible. I was in mostly gifted and accelerated classes through the end of high school and graduated from a fine public university. I believe in the public school system but I think it's a very individual decision.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 29, 2013 21:37:56 GMT -5
When the public schools are able to toss out disruptive children and kids can safely walk the halls and use the restrooms, then we will talk public schools. Feral parents raise feral children and then inflict them on society. Thanks but no thanks. When districts can fire lousy teachers, then we might get somewhere
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 29, 2013 21:40:10 GMT -5
Get rid of lousy kids and then get rid of lousy teachers.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 29, 2013 21:46:08 GMT -5
Get rid of lousy kids and then get rid of lousy teachers. I say get rid if both at the same time. This article is crazy...my responsibility is to my children, not to the children of the crack white in the trailer park (no offense MM :-p)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 29, 2013 21:47:41 GMT -5
I'm all with that but a few lousy teachers won't damage a school. I had lousy teachers but my school was safe. My kids had great teachers but from middle school on could not use the restrooms and halls were dangerous. Busses were a crapshoot.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 29, 2013 22:31:16 GMT -5
We aren't going to private school, but we are moving back to a much better school district. The district we're in now is so poor that Dh and I are in the top 3% of earners for where ds would go to elementary school. And we don't make that much money...
Even the charter schools have huge challenges. Our friend who taught at one about a mile from us felt that because kids in this area take on so many adult responsibilities at home (parents frequently work 2 jobs and don't speak English), that they end up acting out in school.
We just couldn't take the risk, and were willing to squeeze into our triplex in a better area if we had to.
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quince
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Post by quince on Aug 30, 2013 6:26:03 GMT -5
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 30, 2013 6:30:52 GMT -5
Well, i don't think the that private schools have better teachers. Most of the private schools here pay poverty wages. There aren't a lot of teachers who could even afford to take these jobs. I think the private schools fare better due to better discipline in the classroom and having to pay tuition weeds out a lot of kids with parents who don't care about them and dont' discipline them. If we had better discipline and control in the public schools, then i think the results would be far better.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 30, 2013 6:31:03 GMT -5
I went to a school like that. It was SAFE but it was so poor that the few kids that did go to college were woefully unprepared. But not many did so it really didn't matter, I suppose, except for those who wanted more out of life than farming or factory work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 6:42:07 GMT -5
Well, i don't think the that private schools have better teachers. Most of the private schools here pay poverty wages. There aren't a lot of teachers who could even afford to take these jobs. I think the private schools fare better due to better discipline in the classroom and having to pay tuition weeds out a lot of kids with parents who don't care about them and dont' discipline them. If we had better discipline and control in the public schools, then i think the results would be far better. But the public schools won't have better discipline and control as long as kids who don't want to be there are coddled and counseled and kept there because the school gets more state money. The "solution" is metal detectors and security guards and "attendants" on the buses. I agree that you get a far different culture in a school where the parents are paying tuition, the teachers know you can take your kid and your money elsewhere, and kids who don't want to be there can be expelled. A small detail: in 9 years in the same public school system (K-8) the faculty and staff never remembered that my last name was not the same as DS'- I kept my own name when I married. The private school got it immediately. And one amusing observation: the last 2 Presidents with kids in the White House said a lot of happy stuff about supporting the public schools, but where did their kids end up? Sidwell Friends' School, run by the Quakers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 6:42:16 GMT -5
I like the conclusion: When it comes to parenting your #1 job is to look after your child, their well being, their education. If you can afford private school and you think it will be better for them, send them there. Don't make your kids an unwilling sacrificial lamb to prove a point or defend a cause.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 30, 2013 6:45:57 GMT -5
I think parents should make their own decisions. What i DON'T want is POLITICIANS lecturing me on where I should send my kids . So, um, yeah.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 30, 2013 6:57:07 GMT -5
Sometimes, though, moving to a better school can be expensive and or not always an option.
We've structured our finances so that we live on my day job salary alone for everything except private school/daycare. DH pays for that and daycare with his part time job.
So in our town, the best elementary schools are in the areas with a half million dollar homes. We get 3300/month to spend on everything-including daycare and private school..We still wouldn't be able to afford moving. I just ran a calculator. A 350K mortgage alone would run us 1700/month. Taxes would run another 800-900 a month. So, it's not really feasible to move to a better neighborhood school. There other good neighborhood schools are surrounded by houses that run 350K. A mortgage on that IS more doable, at 1200ish, plus 600/month for taxes. It's still not a good idea for us to take on a mortgage that's half of our net income. And, renting in these areas isn't an option. There are no apartments in these neighborhoods-to keep out the riff-raff. Sure you can rent a house, but again, we'd be looking at 1500-2K/month on housing alone. Now, we could move to a bedroom community, and buy a house similar to ours. Once you figure in higher transportation costs and loss of income (not all my clients will follow me), we'd be ahead $150/month. Spending an extra 20 hours a month and losing income isn't worth the $150 gain we'd get.
So, we stay put, live in a nice neighborhood, and send our kids to private school.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 30, 2013 7:13:11 GMT -5
Well, i don't think the that private schools have better teachers. Most of the private schools here pay poverty wages. There aren't a lot of teachers who could even afford to take these jobs. I think the private schools fare better due to better discipline in the classroom and having to pay tuition weeds out a lot of kids with parents who don't care about them and dont' discipline them. If we had better discipline and control in the public schools, then i think the results would be far better. Here, because of the teacher's union, it is almost impossible to fire a bad teacher in the public school system. It some areas tenure prevents that as well. You can't weed out the bad teachers in the public school system in some areas. In private schools you can. Now of course there are many good, dedicated teachers in the public system as well but between the unions, parents and kids that don't give a damn, IEDP's for every "special need", ESL etc. out there it's no wonder our public school system is failing. I've mentioned my sister's friend is a teacher. She had three kids, all from the same family, with IEDP's that included being given as much time as they needed to take a test. Upper class family with resources to game the system. So the parents who know how to work it get additional resources for their kids while everyone else goes wanting. It happens more often that we like to think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 7:27:51 GMT -5
You can fire bad teachers, it just takes diligence and work... Something most admins are unwilling to do...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2013 7:59:22 GMT -5
The idea that EVERY public school is a gang infested boxing match that offers no real educational opportunities is ridiculous.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 30, 2013 8:03:26 GMT -5
The end result is the same. AND...if you do somehow manage to fire someone count on being sued to make it stick. hiddenviolations.com/stories/?prcss=display&id=358596Now granted, my state is apparently the worst in the Union in this area (as in many others) but it's the only state I have experience with and to which I can speak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 8:23:48 GMT -5
The City schools here are abysmal! I believe they had a 38% graduation rate last year. However, the suburbs all have good to excellent school districts. So I wonder if everyone who thinks public schools are "gang infested boxing match that offers no real educational opportunities" live in cities?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 8:31:12 GMT -5
Sometimes, though, moving to a better school can be expensive and or not always an option. <snip>So, we stay put, live in a nice neighborhood, and send our kids to private school. Sounds good to me. I lived in one of those neighborhoods with half-million dollar houses and the property taxes to go with them. It didn't work for DS. I'm sure they took very good care of the top 20% and the bottom 20% but he was in the middle and not a discipline problem so he got ignored. You're much better off with lower housing costs and a private school, where you have the flexibility to move your kid if it's not working for them. At least you're paying less in property taxes to support the public system.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2013 8:37:18 GMT -5
The City schools here are abysmal! I believe they had a 38% graduation rate last year. However, the suburbs all have good to excellent school districts. So I wonder if everyone who thinks public schools are "gang infested boxing match that offers no real educational opportunities" live in cities? I'm 5 miles from the center of downtown and the public high school up the street is ranked in the top 1000 nationally. The high school 3 miles away has an IB program that people from all over the city drive in for. And the high school that is our district school is a disaster - but no gangs. I've known several people who have graduated from there, and gone on to college. Our elementary school is known for being excellent. And traditionally, AZ has fairly lousy education. So, maybe some cities have 100% gang infested schools, but the notion that EVERY public school in the USA is a total disaster is just a stupid premise to base your arguments.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Aug 30, 2013 8:45:42 GMT -5
I am a bad person. All 3 of my kids went to private school.
I live in a small city, ~80k population. There are 4 public high schools and 2 private schools. If all of the private school kids went to the public school, the test scores for the public schools would greatly improve. But our public schools have so many issues.
Private school teachers here make a bit less than public schools. A lot of the private school teachers teach there while there kids are school age, because they get a pretty good tuition discount. My neighbor did this, then switched to public school when her kids graduated. But the difference in private schools is that the bad teachers are let go. I have seen this. In our public schools there was a cheating scandal on standardized tests in 2nd grade where some of the teachers were giving kids answers to changing the answers after the kids turned in the test. And the principals were encouraging it. In the end, most of them kept their jobs.
And the reason we started in private school was that we wanted to put my youngest in K5 early (he missed cutoff date by 13 days, and he was born 14 days after his due date) and the public school wouldn't let us (or we would have to commit forgery). Somehow it is ok to hold your kid back, but not start early. He went to private school and was always top of his class, and getting nearly all A's in college.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 30, 2013 9:07:23 GMT -5
This is very timely as last night was DD's parent orientation night and open house for grades 5-8 (upper level in our school). EVERY 5-8 grade teacher was there. DD has 30 kids in her class. 28 of them were represented by parents at the open house (in several cases both parents). We went from classroom to classroom meeting the teacher and getting an overview of the education plan for the year and the in-house and online resources availble to them. Teachers provided their e-mails and let us know the times they would be available before and after school to provide extra assistance.
What kind of parental participation rates do you think they get at the public schools?Two of DD's teachers are new this year. One of them explained why his resume (they all provided them) showed him leaving the private school system to teach in public schools, only to return to private schools two years later. He spoke of a recent conversation with a friend of his that was still at the public HS... First day of school - 300 kids, 7 fights, 14 suspensions for gang signs/colors/inappropriate clothing and 6 pregnancies. The teacher had alread been cursed at by students no less than 7 times and had to manage 17 IDEP's. Oh, and several weapons confiscated after the metal dectectors were set off. He decided the pay differential was not worth the bullshit and got back into private education as quickly as he could. I don't blame him. He is certified to teach HS and Grade school. He is also certified to teach German, English, 5-8th grade math in addition to Algebra as well as (not relevant but nice to know) all levels of HS math up to an including Trigonometry. He has a website set up with practice tests, homework examples, and math challenges of the day. DH couldn't wait to check out the content. Their loss, our gain. At my kids school you have to show up at least an hour early unless you don't mind parking in the next county. Most rooms are also standing room only. They only have 18-25 kids max a class though. They are in the regular public school though. Trust me when I say the schools get way more parental involvement than they want.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2013 9:11:45 GMT -5
Our elementary school has plenty of parent involvement. Same experience as 973beachbum - come early, or park and walk a mile. I can't speak for the 5th-8th grade because my daughter is in a charter school, which is technically public. That place is ridiculous for parent involvement. We had 6 parent-school before the first week of class was over - and every one of them had more parents than there are kids in the school. I hear "our" middle school also has a lot of parent involvement - given that it is the same group of people that are at our elementary school, I can't imagine parents will suddenly stop encouraging their children to get an education.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 30, 2013 9:28:07 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 30, 2013 9:30:13 GMT -5
In another article she wrote, she mentioned she was finally getting rid of her daycare bill since all her kids were now in school.
Hope she's putting her money where her mouth is and sending her kids to the same school she went to since she seems to take such pride in going there herself.
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