President Barry "57, I think 58 States" Obama Strikes Again

[djAdvocate]

Aug 8, 2013 17:57:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 8, 2013 17:44:56 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

You'll not need to bother, Virgil, dahlink!  I, and my cadre of snow leopards, will be sitting right here, relaxing by the pool.  We're easy to find.

Of course you are. There's only one swimming pool in Gitmo.

this exchange is spectacular.  worthy of archive.

[Virgil Showlion]

edit: just for the record, he never said 58. he said 50...................7.....................8. go listen to it, if you don't believe me.

He thought there were 5,078 states?

Pfft. What an idiot.

[Sum Dum Gai]

It would make it easier to believe that the systematic dismantling of American liberties was all just a terrible mistake.

And the liberties we've lost since Obama took office are what exactly?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 8, 2013 18:51:15 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

edit: just for the record, he never said 58. he said 50...................7.....................8. go listen to it, if you don't believe me.

He thought there were 5,078 states?

Pfft. What an idiot.

LOL!!! 

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 8, 2013 18:53:11 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

It would make it easier to believe that the systematic dismantling of American liberties was all just a terrible mistake.

And the liberties we've lost since Obama took office are what exactly?

Let's see.

The right to not be assassinated on home soil when the US executive branch decides to take you out.

The right to not be blown to smithereens by a drone when the US executive branch decides to take you out.

The right to not have your e-mails monitored by the DoJ if you're an anti-administration reporter.

The right to not have your country invade nations when Congress has voted against it.

The right to not bomb third-world backwaters without any Congressional approval whatsoever.

The right to not be unconstitutionally taxed and have the Supreme Court declare the tax not a tax.

The right to be acquitted of manslaughter charges and have the US federal administration keep its freaking hands off you.

The right to not carry insurance without paying federal penalties.

...

[mmhmm]

Aug 8, 2013 17:57:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 8, 2013 17:44:56 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

You'll not need to bother, Virgil, dahlink!  I, and my cadre of snow leopards, will be sitting right here, relaxing by the pool.  We're easy to find.

Of course you are. There's only one swimming pool in Gitmo.

LOL!  I'm not worried, Virgil.  I've got a lot of faith in my country and her citizens.  We've been through hard times before, and we'll probably be through hard times again; however, we're a hardy bunch and, when the chips are down, most of us care a great deal about one another.  I'm afraid, if you're looking for someone to point at and laugh while they crawl through the muck and mire of their own failures, you'll have to look somewhere else.  We'll do just fine.  Like dj, I believe that with my whole heart and I'm willing to work to see it happen.  My congressmen often wish I wasn't quite so willing. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 8, 2013 19:13:01 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm afraid, if you're looking for someone to point at and laugh while they crawl through the muck and mire of their own failures, you'll have to look somewhere else.

Is this how you'd characterize my contributions to this thread?

Pointing and laughing while you crawl through the muck and mire of your own failures?

[mmhmm]

Yep.  That about says it, I think. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 8, 2013 20:06:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Yep.  That about says it, I think. 

Uh huh.

[Opti]

The right to not have your e-mails monitored by the DoJ if you're an anti-administration reporter.

I'm just wondering why Virgil thinks anti-administration reporters deserve un-monitored emails and the rest of us don't. Hmmmm.

[mrsdutt]

I just listened to it today.

My thoughts are not political.  The man is our president.  That office is one that commands respect, no matter if the person in it was who I voted for or not.

I'm more willing to pray for the leader of our country than put him/her down.  This is a tine we need to stick together to do what we can to make things better.

And, yes, I know I'm a Pollyanna.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 8, 2013 21:11:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

The right to not have your e-mails monitored by the DoJ if you're an anti-administration reporter.

I'm just wondering why Virgil thinks anti-administration reporters deserve un-monitored emails and the rest of us don't. Hmmmm.

The NSA spying on civilian e-mails was instituted under Bush.

My list included only the liberties that began to erode during Pres. Obama's term, not the ones his administration perpetuated.

[OldCoyote]

If Sarah Palin had made this same comment,  many of you would be frothing from your mouth about just how stupid she is! 

Yet when the President does it, you give him some kind of pass on it

Just why is that??

[mrsdutt]

Aug 9, 2013 0:05:38 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

If Sarah Palin had made this same comment,  many of you would be frothing from your mouth about just how stupid she is! 

Yet when the President does it, you give him some kind of pass on it

Just why is that??

I'm not giving him a pass.  I'm only saying the office needs to be respected.  And what people forget - whether we like to talk about it or not - is this country was blessed by God for all of it's ethical and honored ways.  Maybe we asked for what we have because (even though we ignore it) we ourselves have turned to lying, stealing, murder, greed, etc. and are hell bent on keeping God out of the equation.  Be careful what you wish for.

'The truth?  You can't handle the truth."  Seems to come to mind here.

Let me ask the business people here, What are the ethics you have let slide to make a buck?  No need to answer me, just a reflective question to keep private.
So my take on it is not popular.  We -each individual- make up this country.  It is our responsibility to keep it strong.  Fight the enemy with the strongest weapon (and free) we have, prayer.  But no one is willing to do that because it takes intangible faith to move in that direction.  I will still here the cries that there is no God.  Well, that's OK.  You get what you don't pray for.  Nothing good.

Rant over.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 9, 2013 6:39:06 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Aug 9, 2013 0:05:38 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

If Sarah Palin had made this same comment,  many of you would be frothing from your mouth about just how stupid she is! 

Yet when the President does it, you give him some kind of pass on it

Just why is that??

I'm not giving him a pass.  I'm only saying the office needs to be respected.  And what people forget - whether we like to talk about it or not - is this country was blessed by God for all of it's ethical and honored ways.  Maybe we asked for what we have because (even though we ignore it) we ourselves have turned to lying, stealing, murder, greed, etc. and are hell bent on keeping God out of the equation.  Be careful what you wish for.

'The truth?  You can't handle the truth."  Seems to come to mind here.

Let me ask the business people here, What are the ethics you have let slide to make a buck?  No need to answer me, just a reflective question to keep private.
So my take on it is not popular.  We -each individual- make up this country.  It is our responsibility to keep it strong.  Fight the enemy with the strongest weapon (and free) we have, prayer.  But no one is willing to do that because it takes intangible faith to move in that direction.  I will still here the cries that there is no God.  Well, that's OK.  You get what you don't pray for.  Nothing good.

Rant over.

I respect the office of the President.  That's why I can't stand the jerk that currently occupies it.    I'm sure you were outraged and outspoken about respect for the office when W was in it? 

[Angel!]

Aug 9, 2013 0:05:38 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

If Sarah Palin had made this same comment,  many of you would be frothing from your mouth about just how stupid she is! 

Yet when the President does it, you give him some kind of pass on it

Just why is that??

Palin said ridiculous crap pretty much daily and frankly came across as very uneducated and unprofessional.  If the president is called out twice in 5 years for saying something stupid, well then I am just going to assume he mispoke.

[Deleted]

PBP said :"I respect the office of the President. That's why I can't stand the jerk that currently occupies it."

 I save my contempt for tjhose who continuously and bald-facedly disinform/lie, smear and slander, all the while insisting that everyone "Don't doubt (them). EVER."

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 9, 2013 13:18:36 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 9, 2013 0:05:38 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

If Sarah Palin had made this same comment,  many of you would be frothing from your mouth about just how stupid she is! 

Yet when the President does it, you give him some kind of pass on it

Just why is that??

Palin said ridiculous crap pretty much daily and frankly came across as very uneducated and unprofessional.  If the president is called out twice in 5 years for saying something stupid, well then I am just going to assume he mispoke.

incorrect. In fact most of the stupid stuff Sarah Palin said she never said. Much of what comedian Tina Fey portrayed her as saying was actually attributed to her incorrectly.

[mrsdutt]

Aug 9, 2013 13:06:25 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Aug 9, 2013 6:39:06 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

I'm not giving him a pass.  I'm only saying the office needs to be respected.  And what people forget - whether we like to talk about it or not - is this country was blessed by God for all of it's ethical and honored ways.  Maybe we asked for what we have because (even though we ignore it) we ourselves have turned to lying, stealing, murder, greed, etc. and are hell bent on keeping God out of the equation.  Be careful what you wish for.

'The truth?  You can't handle the truth."  Seems to come to mind here.

Let me ask the business people here, What are the ethics you have let slide to make a buck?  No need to answer me, just a reflective question to keep private.
So my take on it is not popular.  We -each individual- make up this country.  It is our responsibility to keep it strong.  Fight the enemy with the strongest weapon (and free) we have, prayer.  But no one is willing to do that because it takes intangible faith to move in that direction.  I will still here the cries that there is no God.  Well, that's OK.  You get what you don't pray for.  Nothing good.

Rant over.

I respect the office of the President.  That's why I can't stand the jerk that currently occupies it.    I'm sure you were outraged and outspoken about respect for the office when W was in it? 

How would you know if I was outraged? I voted for Bush and not Obama. It's my position to pray for our leaders and our country. I'm not political, but I certainly make sure I know the background of the person I vote for. To me, discussing politics is like hitting a dead horse. All the huff and puff does no good but waste time and energy. Understand that is my humble opinion only.

My personal opinion is we're going to hell in a hand basket if we stay on the path we've been on. But I also put the blame on the greed and uselessness of the middle class in the years that preceded the present few years.  And God is bigger than all the sheet we see around us. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Angel!]

Aug 9, 2013 14:16:38 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Aug 9, 2013 13:18:36 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Palin said ridiculous crap pretty much daily and frankly came across as very uneducated and unprofessional.  If the president is called out twice in 5 years for saying something stupid, well then I am just going to assume he mispoke.

incorrect. In fact most of the stupid stuff Sarah Palin said she never said. Much of what comedian Tina Fey portrayed her as saying was actually attributed to her incorrectly.

Nope.  She said a lot of stupid stuff and came across as unprofessional and uneducated.  I am not thinking of Tina Fey since I never watch SNL. 

Or are we going to pretend saying "You betcha" and winking is professional?  I found her act an embarrasment.  She may be smart, but she was in way over her head and completely unable to put together good answers when on the spot, which made her look dumb.  Most people can respond with a newspaper or two they read and I would expect a VP to be able to name a few supreme court decisions.  And then there was the whole death panel ridiculousness plus a bunch other stupid things she said.  No, I am not mistaken, she regularly made herself look like an idiot. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

The right to not be assassinated on home soil when the US executive branch decides to take you out.

No US citizen has ever been assassinated on home soil.  There have been a few killed on foreign soil, the first was while Bush was still in office during the early years of the Iraq war.  Next

The right to not be blown to smithereens by a drone when the US executive branch decides to take you out.

The drone program was already in the works at the Pentagon when Bush took office, and was used throughout his presidency.  Next.

The right to not have your e-mails monitored by the DoJ if you're an anti-administration reporter.

All emails have been getting monitored for years as the Snowden leak showed, the FBI had Carnivore before that.  Privacy has been an illusion for over a decade and Obama's only served 5 years.  Next.

The right to not have your country invade nations when Congress has voted against it.

We invaded Iraq and Afghanistan without a formal declaration of war during Bush's term.  Next.

The right to not bomb third-world backwaters without any Congressional approval whatsoever.

We've been doing that since Vietnam.  Constantly I might add.  The Naval and Army task forces working the drug wars in South America have been using armed attack helicopters since Reagan was in office.  Next.

The right to not be unconstitutionally taxed and have the Supreme Court declare the tax not a tax.

This was hardly the first time the Supreme Court has declared a mandatory "fee" not a tax.  I have to register my car and pay a "fee" that's not a tax.  Have had to for decades.  Next.

The right to be acquitted of manslaughter charges and have the US federal administration keep its freaking hands off you.

Federal prosecutors have been going after people acquitted in local courts since prohibition and the mob task forces.  Next.

The right to not carry insurance without paying federal penalties.

Holy shit, there's actually one true thing on your list.  That erosion of rights also came with insurance companies no longer being able to deny you insurance based on genetic conditions, cut off your insurance mid illness if you hit there arbitrary cap, and state exchanges that include subsidies to purchase insurance if you can't afford it.  I'll grant you it was a minor erosion of liberties, but it came with some sweeteners.

...

That's it?  That's your big scary list of all the freedoms that we've lost?  The right to not carry insurance without facing a fee.  Yeah, I see your point now.  Damn that Obama dismantling my freedoms left and right... 

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 9, 2013 16:44:56 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

The right to not be assassinated on home soil when the US executive branch decides to take you out.

No US citizen has ever been assassinated on home soil.

Oh really? They procured authorization to do it just in case Zombie Reagan came back from the dead? Next.

There have been a few killed on foreign soil, the first was while Bush was still in office during the early years of the Iraq war.  Next

The right to not be blown to smithereens by a drone when the US executive branch decides to take you out.

The drone program was already in the works at the Pentagon when Bush took office, and was used throughout his presidency.  Next.

The ability for the executive branch to unilaterally blow Americans away on home soil without any judicial oversight whatsoever came during Obama's presidency. Next.

The right to not have your e-mails monitored by the DoJ if you're an anti-administration reporter.

All emails have been getting monitored for years as the Snowden leak showed, the FBI had Carnivore before that.  Privacy has been an illusion for over a decade and Obama's only served 5 years.  Next.

The AG didn't have by-request access to journalist e-mails until the Obama administration. Next.

The right to not have your country invade nations when Congress has voted against it.

We invaded Iraq and Afghanistan without a formal declaration of war during Bush's term.  Next.

Without a formal declaration of war, but with congressional approval in both cases. Next.

The right to not bomb third-world backwaters without any Congressional approval whatsoever.

We've been doing that since Vietnam.  Constantly I might add.  The Naval and Army task forces working the drug wars in South America have been using armed attack helicopters since Reagan was in office.  Next.

I suppose it depends on the scale. Vietnam was perpetrated with the complicity of the US congress. And I'm talking about all-out war. Not helicopter raids on drug lords. Next.

The right to not be unconstitutionally taxed and have the Supreme Court declare the tax not a tax.

This was hardly the first time the Supreme Court has declared a mandatory "fee" not a tax.  I have to register my car and pay a "fee" that's not a tax.  Have had to for decades.  Next.

This is the first time you had to do it for healthcare. And the first time it could ever potentially cost you thousands of dollars. Next.

The right to be acquitted of manslaughter charges and have the US federal administration keep its freaking hands off you.

Federal prosecutors have been going after people acquitted in local courts since prohibition and the mob task forces.  Next.

Could there maybe be a difference between a self-defense shooting and the mafia? Self-defense shooting? Billion-dollar crime enterprise? Self- ... No. Nope. Thought I had something there for a second, but they're identical. I'll concede this one. Next.

The right to not carry insurance without paying federal penalties.

Holy shit, there's actually one true thing on your list.  That erosion of rights also came with insurance companies no longer being able to deny you insurance based on genetic conditions, cut off your insurance mid illness if you hit there arbitrary cap, and state exchanges that include subsidies to purchase insurance if you can't afford it.  I'll grant you it was a minor erosion of liberties, but it came with some sweeteners.

And here I thought it could never happen! You actually mounted a rebuttal that wasn't "It's all good; we lost that liberty long ago".

Add to your list o' benefits the right to not buy insurance until you get sick, the right to pay for a slew of previously uninsurable people, and the right to have an actual public healthcare system pushed completely out of reach by implementing a trainwreck of an intermediate solution. Next.

...

That's it?  That's your big scary list of all the freedoms that we've lost?  The right to not carry insurance without facing a fee.  Yeah, I see your point now.  Damn that Obama dismantling my freedoms left and right... 

That's my big scary list of freedoms you've lost in the past four years. But good to know that "it's all good; we lost that freedom ages ago" works so well as a security blanket. It's like the gift that keeps on giving.

[Sum Dum Gai]

The ability for the executive branch to unilaterally blow Americans away on home soil without any judicial oversight whatsoever came during Obama's presidency. Next.

There has never been a drone strike on US soil.  They have killed American citizens on foreign soil.  The first American killed in a drone strike on foreign soil happened prior to Obama taking office and it was the Bush administration who authorized the strike.

I suppose it depends on the scale. Vietnam was perpetrated with the complicity of the US congress. And I'm talking about all-out war. Not helicopter raids on drug lords. Next.

We aren't at all out war with any nations without Congresses consent.  We've instituted no fly zones, which previous administrations have also done.  And I'm not talking about just Vietnam.  We've been using attack planes and helicopters in south American airspace for decades, without Congress specifically authorizing their use.

That's my big scary list of freedoms you've lost in the past four years. But good to know that "it's all good; we lost that freedom ages ago" works so well as a security blanket. It's like the gift that keeps on giving.

You're the one who said Obama was dismantling our freedoms, then listed a ton of stuff that the Bush administration did, or things that have been happening for decades.  Do all these things make me feel warm and fuzzy, not hardly, but you're claim that Obama was the one who took these freedoms is laughably incorrect.

[billisonboard]

Others: Laos, Cambodia, Nicaragua by proxy

[djAdvocate]

Aug 9, 2013 14:16:38 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Aug 9, 2013 13:18:36 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Palin said ridiculous crap pretty much daily and frankly came across as very uneducated and unprofessional.  If the president is called out twice in 5 years for saying something stupid, well then I am just going to assume he mispoke.

incorrect. In fact most of the stupid stuff Sarah Palin said she never said.

what she said was bad enough.  she got the Paul Revere thing wrong.  the fact that Russia and Canada are neighbors of Alaska was totally irrelevant to her potential job as VP.  the VP does not "lead the Senate" or "head the Senate" in any meaningful way.  the Bush Doctrine thing was a gotcha question, but she could have legitimately asked "what do you mean, specifically?", rather than "in what respect?".  she comported herself very poorly in interviews, because she doesn't listen well to advice, and seems to think her provincial knowledge is "good enough".  there are a lot of people that LOVE that about her, but i think it makes her a very bad admin for large organizations, where large = bigger than Wasilla.

Much of what comedian Tina Fey portrayed her as saying was actually attributed to her incorrectly.

of course it was.  she is a comedian.  it is her job to exaggerate to humorous effect- to skewer and caricature.  she did a fantastic job.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 9, 2013 18:28:03 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

The ability for the executive branch to unilaterally blow Americans away on home soil without any judicial oversight whatsoever came during Obama's presidency. Next.

There has never been a drone strike on US soil.  They have killed American citizens on foreign soil.  The first American killed in a drone strike on foreign soil happened prior to Obama taking office and it was the Bush administration who authorized the strike.

I suppose it depends on the scale. Vietnam was perpetrated with the complicity of the US congress. And I'm talking about all-out war. Not helicopter raids on drug lords. Next.

We aren't at all out war with any nations without Congresses consent.  We've instituted no fly zones, which previous administrations have also done.  And I'm not talking about just Vietnam.  We've been using attack planes and helicopters in south American airspace for decades, without Congress specifically authorizing their use.

That's my big scary list of freedoms you've lost in the past four years. But good to know that "it's all good; we lost that freedom ages ago" works so well as a security blanket. It's like the gift that keeps on giving.

You're the one who said Obama was dismantling our freedoms, then listed a ton of stuff that the Bush administration did, or things that have been happening for decades.  Do all these things make me feel warm and fuzzy, not hardly, but you're claim that Obama was the one who took these freedoms is laughably incorrect.

you will get labeled a Bush Basher for this post.  my advice: accept the title.  wear it with pride.  there is an inordinate amount of bad shit that is going on that is at least partially, if not largely his fault.

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2013 22:40:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 9, 2013 14:16:38 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

incorrect. In fact most of the stupid stuff Sarah Palin said she never said.

what she said was bad enough.  she got the Paul Revere thing wrong.  the fact that Russia and Canada are neighbors of Alaska was totally irrelevant to her potential job as VP.  the VP does not "lead the Senate" or "head the Senate" in any meaningful way.  the Bush Doctrine thing was a gotcha question, but she could have legitimately asked "what do you mean, specifically?", rather than "in what respect?".  she comported herself very poorly in interviews, because she doesn't listen well to advice, and seems to think her provincial knowledge is "good enough".  there are a lot of people that LOVE that about her, but i think it makes her a very bad admin for large organizations, where large = bigger than Wasilla.

Much of what comedian Tina Fey portrayed her as saying was actually attributed to her incorrectly.

of course it was.  she is a comedian.  it is her job to exaggerate to humorous effect- to skewer and caricature.  she did a fantastic job.

 PBP's caricatures suffer from a critical flaw... they just are NOT "funny".
 EVER.

[Sum Dum Gai]

you will get labeled a Bush Basher for this post. my advice: accept the title. wear it with pride. there is an inordinate amount of bad shit that is going on that is at least partially, if not largely his fault.

I'm an acknowledged Bush basher, he was one of the worst presidents in US history.  I was in the military for most of his terms, and working in military intelligence.  I got to see first hand how much of our privacy that son of a bitch flushed down the toilet.  I wouldn't piss on him or Rumsfeld if they were on fire.

I had friends that died in Afghanistan when they started a war, understaffed it, underequipped the men and women fighting it, and completely ignored it and left our troops in the lurch after the Taliban fell because they were focused on Iraq.  The man should have been impeached after the Patriot Act.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 8, 2013 18:11:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 8, 2013 17:23:35 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I sort of wish he was an idiot. It would make it easier to believe that the systematic dismantling of American liberties was all just a terrible mistake.

that is precisely the same logic i use for Bush.  being stupid would make the fact that he is wretched MORE excusable.

They're both statists.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 9, 2013 23:23:00 GMT -5 @patiencetried said:

Aug 9, 2013 22:40:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

of course it was.  she is a comedian.  it is her job to exaggerate to humorous effect- to skewer and caricature.  she did a fantastic job.

 PBP's caricatures suffer from a critical flaw... they just are NOT "funny".
 EVER.

They are not funny to you, but that's your problem- not mine.  You're missing out.