hurley1980
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I am all that is wrong with the world....don't get too close, I'm contagious.
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 23, 2013 15:23:10 GMT -5
I've known my fiance (husband in 4 days) since we were 16 and 17. We are now 32 and 33. We didnt start dating until 3 years ago though. I think waiting until we were older to start dating really helped us. We both say that if we had gotten together at 18, or even 24, there is no way we would have stayed together. We were just way too young, immature and irresponsible. The 3 years we have dated has really helped us grow up together, and hopefully we will always be as strong together as we are now!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 23, 2013 15:25:36 GMT -5
I agree that luck plays a huge part in marrying a good match. Some people who look great on paper are terrible spouses. Others who look like trainwrecks on paper turn out to be the next Phil or 2kids. And sometimes two otherwise good people simply aren't compatible with one another.
But while finding/marrying a good match may be luck, remaining married to someone who has proven to not be a good match is a choice.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 23, 2013 15:33:57 GMT -5
On the surface DH and I don't look like much of a match: he's 17 years older than me and had never gone to college. If you dig a little deeper, you have similar values, similar beliefs, neither one of us is afraid of a little hard work, and mostly similar ideas of a good time. We have differences when it comes to money, but we are both willing to compromise and work at it. I wasn't out looking for him when I found him (met at work, 2nd day on the job at my first professional job out of college). I just had this feeling with him that he was the one.
If you are giving marriage advice, I think the big thing is going in with someone willing to work with you. Both of you have to know it is give and take and try to balance it out if you feel things are becoming out of balance. Lately, I feel like I've probably been "taking" more than I've been giving. So, I probably need to step up and help out more to get things back into a better balance.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 23, 2013 15:45:15 GMT -5
...:::"But while finding/marrying a good match may be luck, remaining married to someone who has proven to not be a good match is a choice.":::...
If I meet anyone like that, I'll let him/her know. My point was just that sometimes I think people who got lucky like to dispense advice as if their luck was more than luck.
Take another example: Some people were poised to buy homes right at the perfect time when prices hit rock bottom. They could tell you how "buying reasonable housing" was part of their strategy for success. Its certainly true that when you spend less for something, you retain more money to use for wealth building. But don't act like you knew exactly when the perfect time to buy was going to be, and you waited for it.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 23, 2013 16:43:53 GMT -5
Date the dumb ones in high school, and the smart ones in college. Or Date the crazy but hot ones in high school, and the stable ones with healthy parents in college. The problem with that strategy is that spending years dating people who aren't spouse material means you are loosing out on years of learning how to find, attract and keep the ones who are spouse material.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 23, 2013 17:13:15 GMT -5
I think "marry the right person" isn't so much about marrying someone who is rich or has the potential to be rich but instead refers to the fact that divorce is costly, and not just in terms of dollars. It can derail (or at least slow down) careers. It can "mommy track" even dads who never thought that would be the case. And none of this takes into account the emotional toll.
Maybe I have a different opinion because I can look at the two other people (besides C) that I realistically could have ended up married to, and there's a high likelihood that in both cases, as a couple,we would be financially more successful than C and I are now (though as an individual, I would likely be less successful, at least career wise).
The first guy, who did propose to me- twice, is an Annapolis grad and in Naval Intelligence. We came from very similar backgrounds/families and held similar beliefs. His parents loved me (and I was only ever introduced to them as a friend). If I had chosen to go that route, I would have made an awesome officer's wife, though it's likely I wouldn't have my MBA (but I might have a different graduate degree). Who knows how much I would have worked outside the home, as active duty sailors can be transferred a lot. But I know him. I know me. If I had said yes, we would still be married, and probably pretty happily, too.
The second guy, who didn't propose, but with one minor change in our relationship could easily have gotten to that point, was a college grad, mostly through his master's program, but taking a break. His dad was a psychologist. His mom was a teacher (in fact, had been my English teacher both as a sophomore and a senior). My relationship with my in-laws would have been so much better than my relationship with C was. If he and I were still together, we would most likely be two income family, at least one of us holding a graduate degree. However, I am less certain he and I would not have divorced. C and I are both friends with him, and the person he is now and the person I am now would never work as a couple. But if we had remained a couple and grown together, who knows.
C was probably the worst choice of the lot. He had an AA, lived at home, and ran an unsuccessful niche business (role playing game store) with a friend who had no idea how to handle money. Our family backgrounds were nothing alike. He's been unemployed since 2009, and a full time student since 2011. There is no plan for him to go back to work for another 7+ years. He wants a PhD in math, but then wants to teach community college, not go into some high paying field. But, he has fully supported me throughout every goal I have had. He made it possible for me to go back to school full time and work full time. When I said I wanted to adopt, not have bio kids, he supported that. And even though he would have been happy had we decided not to become parents, his agreeing to take on the majority of the childcare (and being awesome at it) means that I can come to my new position and be out of the house 12 hours a day without a ton of guilt, or have really expensive childcare. We are one month and one week away from our 10th wedding anniversary (together 13.5 years), and I have a hard time believing it's been that long. At the same time, I am so excited about our next 10 years together.
It's very possible I did not marry the "best" person, but I certainly married the "right" person.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 23, 2013 17:27:46 GMT -5
Date the dumb ones in high school, and the smart ones in college. Or Date the crazy but hot ones in high school, and the stable ones with healthy parents in college. The problem with that strategy is that spending years dating people who aren't spouse material means you are loosing out on years of learning how to find, attract and keep the ones who are spouse material. Meh - I think that if you start dating at 16 years old with marriage in mind, you will be burned out and possibly feel like you missed out when you are 40. Some people (not everyone) need to be able to look back and say "Oh, I tried that once, and it wasn't all it was cracked up to be." "That" might be date a hot stupid girl, or skydive or get falling down drunk or whatever. I think you are still able to have a healthy relationship at 25+ if you don't start "practicing" when you are a stupid teenager. I know plenty of people who didn't date at all in high school, and are still able to have a decent marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 17:28:03 GMT -5
...:::"But while finding/marrying a good match may be luck, remaining married to someone who has proven to not be a good match is a choice.":::... My point was just that sometimes I think people who got lucky like to dispense advice as if their luck was more than luck. Apologies if this wasn't in part directed at me: Yes, I did run across DF by partly by luck, but we're together this long by choice. When he couldn't find work for a long stretch and didn't even get call backs from grocery stores, I got a ton of pitying looks from my coworkers and people who learned of our finances, like the managers at apartments. They thought DF was some sort of bum, and I was a self deluding sap for supporting him. Even DF's parents seemed ashamed of him for not working. I was advised to him by several people as time went by. We'd been together 5 years at that point though, and DF had supported me though college. I stayed, because of what he is: awesome. Awesome person, awesome worker. Flexible, great with details and not getting stressed, and loves being around people. So we just strategized options, and I beat down or ignored people pitying me as a fool lugging a man child. Now that he's making a great salary and doing international projects for extra 39% pay (got another one assigned to him yesterday) the same people who told me to him now think that I'm lucky to be partnered with him. Mom really didn't like him for a long time too; she thought he wasn't athletic enough for me. She said that she thought I was going to drag home a lumberjack or something, instead of a very heavy, delicately featured guy. But we balance and do well together. DF lost 80 pounds just by starting to eat what I do, and I learned a lot of office soft skills from him. We definitely are together this long because we chose to support each other rather than cut ties when people were advising it though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 17:29:24 GMT -5
I intentionally said A right person, because I think there can be more than one. I would just prefer my kids not rely on luck... But, barring that am at a loss for what to counsel them towards. Although this is helping some.
Lol. I mean I'm not trying to marry them off yet, but I'm guessing we are headed into dating territory sooner rather than later.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 23, 2013 17:40:27 GMT -5
I will tell my own children:
1) Only stay with someone who is nice to you. You don't need anyone cutting you down, or physically abusing you, or treating you as second class. If they aren't nice to you, why do they even want to date you.
2) Don't get with someone who likes to pick fights - with you or others. It might feel exciting, but fighting can be exhausting, and you don't need to spend your days feeling like you could set someone off.
3) Look for someone who likes the same things as you. You should enjoy being together, and have some common interest.
4) Look for someone who believes life should look the same way as you. For marriage material, I wanted to marry someone who was college educated, a hard worker, probably professional, who would come home for dinner, every night, unless something special came up, etc. This is what I wanted my life to look like. I found a guy who wanted those same things. Neither of us had to compromise. But, this can apply to dating, too. If your kid thinks dating should be X amount of time, and include certain expectations, but the person they are (or want to) date has a totally different idea, don't battle over it - just move on. High school relationships are most often short-lived anyway.
5) Don't be afraid to move on with your life when you are young. You should get an opportunity to meet a lot of different types of people while you are still growing and determining who you are. I'm sure this advice is tainted by the fact that all but 2 of the "college sweetheart" weddings I went to ended in divorce. Some of those people went through really hard times during college - maybe if they had a chance to explore themselves a little more, they would have found that person wasn't the best mate for them.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 23, 2013 17:45:12 GMT -5
Meh - I think that if you start dating at 16 years old with marriage in mind, you will be burned out and possibly feel like you missed out when you are 40. Some people (not everyone) need to be able to look back and say "Oh, I tried that once, and it wasn't all it was cracked up to be." "That" might be date a hot stupid girl, or skydive or get falling down drunk or whatever. I think you are still able to have a healthy relationship at 25+ if you don't start "practicing" when you are a stupid teenager. I know plenty of people who didn't date at all in high school, and are still able to have a decent marriage. The last thing on my mind was marriage at 16. I just wanted to date a cute guy. I started dating DH when i was 27 and still had no interest in marriage. When almost ran me off because he got too commitmenty on me.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 23, 2013 17:48:34 GMT -5
Sounds like a new Altoids flavor.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 23, 2013 17:59:57 GMT -5
@copperpouches - in no way do I think 8 Bit WWBG's comment was directed at you. In general, unless you come on here complaining that you married the wrong person, we're not going to make that assumption for you (well unless you are WWBG or TheHaitian, because they like to complain about their wives), and even then, it's probably more in fun. No, WWBG was referring to people like my aunt, who was already unhappy in her marriage to my uncle before their second child was conceived, and yet, they chose to have a 2nd child (because a newborn when you have a 2 year old is so going to save your marriage) and chose to stay married until both kids were out of the house and in college. That's right, almost 20 years of living with a person who makes you miserable for "the kids' sake". That was a choice they made. And now they are divorced and my aunt is "paying" for that decision. My family, being my aunt's family, naturally all want to blame her ex for how unhappy she was for those years, but it was not entirely his fault. He stayed married because it was better for his career. She stayed married so that her kids wouldn't have divorced parents. Her choice. She chose to make herself miserable. That's what WWBG is talking about.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 23, 2013 18:15:13 GMT -5
...:::"copperboxes - in no way do I think WeWillBackGowron's comment was directed at you. In general, unless you come on here complaining that you married the wrong person...":::... WWBG's original comment was a general observation about including "marry right" on a list of "secrets for success". Much like "buy low, sell high", "invest the difference" and all the things that people say when they want to sound like they made all the right choices; but in reality had a lot of luck on their side. midjd was the one who made the comment about how staying married is a choice, because its always just that simple. She must be upset that I haven't offered up a nice DW rant in a while (it HAS been a while, hasn't it) and I assume she wanted to give me an opening? Things have been pretty good. Some friction on Saturday; but a damn good Sunday . . . . . . yeah, I got nothing.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 23, 2013 18:23:15 GMT -5
DH ate my brownies. Marriage sucks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 18:23:43 GMT -5
So the good Sunday was due to "Saturday night friction", eh?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 23, 2013 18:25:10 GMT -5
I didn't read Mid's comment as implying that staying married is simple at all. I read it as saying that when times get tough (and they do in every single marriage), that just making the choice to stay married is sometimes the one little thread that holds it all together. Not everything is about you. Your rants about DW are interesting, but probably not the driving factor behind everyone's posts on marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 18:27:35 GMT -5
If you get them all in the same session....tantric!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2013 18:29:04 GMT -5
Marrying well is a crapshoot. The people who are still happily married will list all these things they like about their partner, similar values, sense of humor, work ethic, whatever. Go ask divorced people though and they'll say their exes had all those things when they got married the first time. It's not like they dated and were like, "well, she's a total bitch, we have nothing in common, she's a slob, she can't keep a job, she never gets my jokes, all her jokes are just pointing out my flaws, but what the fuck, let's get hitched." If there was an easy formula to follow we wouldn't have the divorce rate we do now.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 23, 2013 18:29:39 GMT -5
So the good Sunday was due to "Saturday night friction", eh? The only thing better than make up sex is angry sex! Point of clarification: is angry sex with your spouse?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 18:30:25 GMT -5
Point of clarification: does either have to be with your spouse?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 23, 2013 18:33:12 GMT -5
Ooooo, I thought angry sex was when you went and screwed someone else because you were mad at your spouse. I've been doing it wrong!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 23, 2013 18:43:47 GMT -5
I didn't read Mid's comment as implying that staying married is simple at all. I read it as saying that when times get tough (and they do in every single marriage), that just making the choice to stay married is sometimes the one little thread that holds it all together. Not everything is about you. Your rants about DW are interesting, but probably not the driving factor behind everyone's posts on marriage. Thank you for saying it more clearly than I apparently did. "Luck is where preparation meets opportunity" - it might be luck to meet your spouse (and often is), but sustaining a good marriage takes much more than that, even for the ultra-compatible. No one has a happy 50-year marriage simply because they're lucky. On the opposite end of the spectrum, no one has an unhappy 50-year marriage simply because they're unlucky. Luck is certainly a factor, but in the end both good marriages and bad come down to the effort put in and the choices made. To use the housing example, buying at the bottom is usually sheer luck - none of us being able to predict it with certainty - but being financially prepared to pounce on a good deal usually involves some planning and effort. Discounting others' good fortune - marital or otherwise - as the result of random luck, or saying that they "cannot credit themselves for any of their success" because they've ended up in a positive situation, or suggesting that any advice given is just to build their own ego, is condescending. (And I'm not one of the ones who mentioned marriage in the "success" thread or commented on it in this thread, so I don't have a dog in this fight).
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 23, 2013 19:06:51 GMT -5
...:::"To use the housing example, buying at the bottom is usually sheer luck - none of us being able to predict it with certainty - but being financially prepared to pounce on a good deal usually involves some planning and effort.":::...
There is certainly merit to this. One does have to be prepared to take advantage of good luck, and that requires work.
I'm just saying that sometimes, that timing was everything. There are plenty of people who worked and saved and got themselves into a position to buy. For those who happened to do that in time with the low prices, those benefits will cascade.
Another example is the job market. 4 years prior to my graduation, things were booming. My year was so/so. The last few years have been AWFUL. In all those time spans, students managed to pass their classes, and graduate. Those who graduated into good times will have a much easier time being successful than those who graduated into hard times. Its a somewhat oversimplified example, but it does address the importance of that luck.
...:::"...just making the choice to stay married is sometimes the one little thread that holds it all together":::...
Indeed, this is a choice that takes strength to see through. I think PBPaul has said something similar: being committed to the marriage itself precludes the possibility of divorce.
Dark makes his point very well!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2013 19:13:35 GMT -5
For your typical problems, sure. If his wife develops a meth habit and lets her life fall apart he'd probably get a divorce. It happens, and it's not always something you can predict from a few months or years of dating ten or fifteen years earlier. People change over time and not always for the better.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 23, 2013 19:23:44 GMT -5
...:::"For your typical problems, sure. If his wife develops a meth habit and lets her life fall apart he'd probably get a divorce. It happens, and it's not always something you can predict from a few months or years of dating ten or fifteen years earlier. People change over time and not always for the better.":::...
An academic debate for sure. IIRC, his motivation behind that statement was faith-based. There aren't many grey areas.
A good deal of the members on this board do seem to agree that there are circumstances where "til death" gets a pass. Destructive behavior that endangers the person, you, your family... definitely falls into that category. And I agree, and even said earlier, that sometimes circumstances "change" and they change people with them.
You have good authority to speak here. Not many people would still be married after doing what you did! Much less have the support of their spouse. I bet the toy store didn't come up in your wedding vows...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 21:57:13 GMT -5
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 23, 2013 22:26:46 GMT -5
Not really. It's not that big of a deal. We have a poster here who stayed with a spouse through a sex change, now that's love right there. Imagine your wife as a dude and staying married.
As to the store thing, when we got married I was living in a shitty studio apartment that I shared with an illegal Canadian immigrant, working part time at a truck stop, and didn't have two nickels to rub together. I wasn't what your mom would describe as a catch, and it's not like she was expecting me to provide a lavish lifestyle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 7:57:14 GMT -5
How do you make sure you Marry a Right Person...?Boy that's an interesting & HARD question. I won't go into my first marriage much except to say that at that time she was a good person & hormones were involved. As happens, we both changed over the years & she most of all (or maybe not most of all but just in a way that was bad). I really don't know how you can predict how a person is going to change 5 or 10 years in the future, but they will change. The 2nd time it was easy. I married the best person that I had every met. Added to that we had life values that we very close. We started off in married life very close and as time has gone on we have become much closer. We are one of those couples that can finish each others sentences.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 24, 2013 9:40:54 GMT -5
Marrying well is a crapshoot. The people who are still happily married will list all these things they like about their partner, similar values, sense of humor, work ethic, whatever. Go ask divorced people though and they'll say their exes had all those things when they got married the first time. It's not like they dated and were like, "well, she's a total bitch, we have nothing in common, she's a slob, she can't keep a job, she never gets my jokes, all her jokes are just pointing out my flaws, but what the fuck, let's get hitched." If there was an easy formula to follow we wouldn't have the divorce rate we do now. Eh, on the outside I've seen people get married and wonder WTF are they thinking. My cousin's marriage to her cheating A-hole of a husband and wonder WTF. They were only married a year. I would bet a lot of money if I had known DH's sister and her husband when they got married, I would have said no way will this last. They didn't fit or compliment each other and neither one was willing to compromise at least that was what I saw when I met them years later. Most people I know who are divorced and I knew both parties, I wonder WTF they were thinking getting married. JME (which is limited since divorce is uncommon in my family and among my friends).
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