Neighborhood Watch

[OldCoyote]

After reading many comments about G Zimmerman What he should have done, should not have done.

What do you do in your area?

Do you hide in your mother basement?
Do you peek out your window but don't call the police?
If you do see something,  do you do anything about it?
Do you take an active role in watching out for your neighbors?
Do you actually patrol your neighborhood,  Like GZ did?

[mmhmm]

Moved this thread into the Current Events/News section as it's not Political; nor, is it related to the markets.  -  mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Sum Dum Gai]

Our area has a neighborhood watch, and some of them do patrol the neighborhood after dark.  They don't chase anyone down on foot and confront them though.  That's what police officers are paid for.  I hope to hell they wouldn't do anything that stupid over seeing a teen in baggy clothes and deciding they must be a criminal.

I doubt most of them are armed though since California makes it pretty hard to get a concealed carry license from what I've heard.  We're still a southwest state, so you can carry unconcealed all you want.

[mmhmm]

We have one here, as well.  We keep an eye out for one another's welfare and use a telephone connection list to keep one another informed and to contact the police should anything unusual be noticed.  That said, ours is not a high-crime area by any stretch of the imagination.  The worst we've had is a few young teens who decided it would be fun to take things from cars. Professionals, they were certainly not, and they were caught by the next day.  Nobody here would go armed (or, unarmed, for that matter) to "patrol the neighborhood".

[steff]

I live in a tiny little town in the country in Georgia, but I grew up in the big city.  If I see something "off" in my cul-de-sac, I call the police.  I'm not going to go outside & confront anyone. 

Even when I was living in Houston, if I saw something "off" I called the cops.  When bartending, the one time I had to call them, they were in the driveway of the bar BEFORE I had even hung up the phone. 

  I have called the cops here once too.  I saw someone I didn't recognize looking in the windows of my neighbors house.  I called, probably less than 2 minutes later they were here.  The person I saw turned out to be the elderly uncle of my neighbor who had just moved in with him & has alzheimers.  My neighbor thanked me for calling. 

I have faith in the police because when I have had a need to call, they are prompt & take care of the problem.  I'm not going to get a gun (which we do have) & go out to confront anyone. 

Also, there's a saying in Texas that if you shoot an intruder, make sure he has at least one foot inside your property.  In Georgia, you better be half dead from being assaulted before you even think of pulling the trigger.  And even then, you will most likely be charged.  We know someone that was arrested for assaulting an intruder.  He was charged & eventually took a plea deal w/ probation. 

[zibazinski]

Well, we have a gated community with only 25 homes. We know all the neighbors and we know, because they tell us and we do them, when someone isn't home. It's harder because once we were the. New neighbors and were having a lot of work done so there were always strange cars but we still said that only the cat caretaker would be here at night. Our newest neighbors haven't gotten with the program yet about letting each side know if they're out of town but after they came back from a reunion, we talked to them about it because we had actually confronted their realtor, actually her assistant because we knew their realtor, who had let someone in while they were gone. So, yes, we keep an eye on things around here. It's gated but you can still walk around the gate and also the damn city put a bike path right past our gate, so in order to continue biking you come into our neighborhood. We have a sign up saying residents and their guests only beyond this point but that's meaningless. I would make sure if I saw someone lurking that they knew I was watching them but other than calling the cops, who won't respond either, I'm sure, just like Sandfords, we are on our own. Thankfully, we also live in a SYG state and although I won't shoot someone for being on my property, I have no issue once they've come in.
GZ still has to live with taking a human life. It won't be an easy thing. You can try to justify, as I would, as "it was them or me" but it still isn't an easy thing. 

[workpublic]

we don't call our town police because "there's nothing they can do. did you call the state police?"

by time the state police show up, it's usually over and if you don't have the name, date of birth, picture, video, license plate number of the person, "there's nothing they can do".

[zibazinski]

This is why people take the law into their own hands. Stupid, just stupid. Sandford is known as are a lot of other areas for just writing tickets to generate revenue. Protect you? Not on their watch.

[workpublic]

just writing tickets to generate revenue/ bingo, the local cops and state are awesome at that. record setting.

and since most of the crime in what was a virtually crime free area is now committed by the illegals, "there's nothing we can do" because they don't show up for court and officially they don't exist. heaven help you if you get hit in a car by one, a lot of times they run away(or try to) before the cops get on the scene, they rarely have insurance or show up in court.

[zibazinski]

Yup, Oregon has this issue as well. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 14, 2013 1:24:35 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

After reading many comments about G Zimmerman What he should have done, should not have done.

What do you do in your area?

Do you hide in your mother basement?
Do you peek out your window but don't call the police?
If you do see something,  do you do anything about it?
Do you take an active role in watching out for your neighbors?
Do you actually patrol your neighborhood,  Like GZ did?

I think George Zimmerman should have pulled up closer to where Trayvon was, and when Trayvon looked at him and was "checking him out", he should have shouted out to him, "Hey, there! Can I ask you a question?".  If TM obliged, he should have said, "I'm George, neighborhood watch.  We've had some problems in the area, I don't recognize you- do you mind if I ask if you live around here?".  TM might have been a dick about it, who knows- maybe TM would have punched him.  But at least then, he would have removed all doubt about it.  

Or, maybe when TM asked him if he had a problem with it, GZ could have been more disarming.  He could have tried talking him down- like, "Whoa, hey man- I'm the neighborhood watch captain, George.  We've had some problems around here, and since I don't know who you are, I just want to ask you if you live here, or if you're a guest?"

And say it all with a smile, and a friendly tone.  Most confrontations- or potential confrontations- can be staved off by a friendly smile, and COMMUNICATION: who are you, and what are you doing following / eyeballing me?  "Oh, hey man, I'm sorry- I didn't mean to be rude, it's just that I'm George, neighborhood watch captain, and I didn't recognize you as someone that lives here.  Are you a resident or a guest?"

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 14, 2013 7:31:41 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

This is why people take the law into their own hands. Stupid, just stupid. Sandford is known as are a lot of other areas for just writing tickets to generate revenue. Protect you? Not on their watch.

This is EXACTLY why I wouldn't dare to think I can count on the police.  The reason I'll call 911 is for someone to come clean up the mess after I'm done looking out for myself.  The police are nothing but modern day highwaymen and tax collectors.  They are at best, inert.  At worst, they'll kill you, or the family pet for no good reason.  

That being said, I still say the order of the day is AVOID CONFRONTATION.  Maybe TM was always going to be trouble. Maybe he was just one of those people driving full speed the wrong way towards a dead end- but I let these people go right on by me.  If there's ACTUAL trouble, I might get involved, and even then I prefer to stay out of it unless it is to save a life- my own, or someone else's.

I never did say I was a fan of GZ.  Just that he didn't commit a crime, and should not have ever faced prison time.  But I'll never say that he couldn't have handled himself better.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2013 15:42:12 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 14, 2013 1:24:35 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

After reading many comments about G Zimmerman What he should have done, should not have done.

What do you do in your area?

Do you hide in your mother basement?
Do you peek out your window but don't call the police?
If you do see something,  do you do anything about it?
Do you take an active role in watching out for your neighbors?
Do you actually patrol your neighborhood,  Like GZ did?

I think George Zimmerman should have pulled up closer to where Trayvon was, and when Trayvon looked at him and was "checking him out", he should have shouted out to him, "Hey, there! Can I ask you a question?".  If TM obliged, he should have said, "I'm George, neighborhood watch.  We've had some problems in the area, I don't recognize you- do you mind if I ask if you live around here?".  TM might have been a dick about it, who knows- maybe TM would have punched him.  But at least then, he would have removed all doubt about it.  

Or, maybe when TM asked him if he had a problem with it, GZ could have been more disarming.  He could have tried talking him down- like, "Whoa, hey man- I'm the neighborhood watch captain, George.  We've had some problems around here, and since I don't know who you are, I just want to ask you if you live here, or if you're a guest?"

And say it all with a smile, and a friendly tone.  Most confrontations- or potential confrontations- can be staved off by a friendly smile, and COMMUNICATION: who are you, and what are you doing following / eyeballing me?  "Oh, hey man, I'm sorry- I didn't mean to be rude, it's just that I'm George, neighborhood watch captain, and I didn't recognize you as someone that lives here.  Are you a resident or a guest?"

Nice post, Paul.

[djAdvocate]

skittles + tea = death

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Jul 14, 2013 1:24:35 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

After reading many comments about G Zimmerman What he should have done, should not have done.

What do you do in your area?

Do you hide in your mother basement?
Do you peek out your window but don't call the police?
If you do see something,  do you do anything about it?
Do you take an active role in watching out for your neighbors?
Do you actually patrol your neighborhood,  Like GZ did?

We don't have a basement. My mother died 9 years ago. She didn't have a basement, either.

I peek out my windows. I look out my front door. I pop open both garage doors and walk out front. I['ve been known to walk out front with a cell phone in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. But then I decided carrying a pointy rake or shovel looked more casual. Sometimes I sit at the table on our front patio, with a magazine. I've even photographed suspicious cars and persons.

I've called the police when I had reason to believe that a crime had been committed, or if I was concerned that one was in progress or imminent. I've been known to yell at people trespassing on my property and on the property of my near neighbors. (We have two prominent NO SOLICITING signs up in front of our house.) I've also chased off one man with the hose (he was stealing my tomatoes)

I do not actively patrol my neighborhood ... but I keep a pretty close watch on my block. (We're located mid-block). Most of my neighbors are gone all day, so it's just me and the local gardeners for the most part. We've had some serious problems with thefts (car break ins, stolen mail), so I like people to know I'm home, and I'm watching. If I see door-to-door solicitors on the block, I usually go outside so they know someone is home, watching.

Note: We live in an urban city of 500,000 and crime is off-the-charts. I think we rank #1 or #2 in the nation for car thefts, for example.

[Tennesseer]

skittles + tea + Robitussin DMX = "drug fueled rage" that got the best of him.

[mmhmm]

Jul 15, 2013 15:46:56 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 14, 2013 7:31:41 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

This is why people take the law into their own hands. Stupid, just stupid. Sandford is known as are a lot of other areas for just writing tickets to generate revenue. Protect you? Not on their watch.

This is EXACTLY why I wouldn't dare to think I can count on the police.  The reason I'll call 911 is for someone to come clean up the mess after I'm done looking out for myself.  The police are nothing but modern day highwaymen and tax collectors.  They are at best, inert.  At worst, they'll kill you, or the family pet for no good reason.  

That being said, I still say the order of the day is AVOID CONFRONTATION.  Maybe TM was always going to be trouble. Maybe he was just one of those people driving full speed the wrong way towards a dead end- but I let these people go right on by me.  If there's ACTUAL trouble, I might get involved, and even then I prefer to stay out of it unless it is to save a life- my own, or someone else's.

I never did say I was a fan of GZ.  Just that he didn't commit a crime, and should not have ever faced prison time.  But I'll never say that he couldn't have handled himself better.

That's certainly not the case with our police, paul.  I've never had to call them from my home, but I've had to call them to the hospital more times than I care to remember.  They've always responded quickly.  If they were really busy because there was something else going on somewhere else, the dispatcher would ask a few questions, letting me know there was a problem.  Even in those cases, the delay in their arrival was only minutes and I'm sure, had it been something horribly urgent, it would have been faster.  Usually, we could hold our own for a bit with Security, the staff, and me.  I don't see the police as the enemy because they've never been the enemy in my experience.   They've been great to work with.

[Sum Dum Gai]

skittles + tea + Robitussin DMX = "drug fueled rage" that got the best of him.

Yeah... without the Tussin it's just high fructose corn syrup and a bunch of random dye numbers.  For all those going on about the cough syrup, answer me one question, did Trayvon have any in his system during the autopsy?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 15, 2013 19:35:30 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

skittles + tea + Robitussin DMX = "drug fueled rage" that got the best of him.

Yeah... without the Tussin it's just high fructose corn syrup and a bunch of random dye numbers.  For all those going on about the cough syrup, answer me one question, did Trayvon have any in his system during the autopsy?

It's not 'roped' like weed.  In other words, they don't test for it.  The dxm is a synthetic morphine that has been legal since the 1960's, however if he did manage to find the connection he was looking for to get the codeine cough syrup, that would show up in toxicology- and it apparently didn't.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 15, 2013 18:16:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

skittles + tea + Robitussin DMX = "drug fueled rage" that got the best of him.

It's entirely possible.  It's at least as possible as the notion that George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon, chased him down for four full minutes- in circles, I guess, caught him- and then, managing to inflict a single wound on TM's finger, then shot him, and kicked his own ass.

We know from Trayvon’s own words that he’s experienced “lean” – and since he knows what DXM is – but thinks the promethazine/codeine cocktail is “a higher dose” then he’s also experienced DXM, at least at a “lower plateau.”

In answer to the question “What’s the DXM Trip Like” the author www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_quickfaq.shtml#toc.3.6 says:

“Well, that depends on how much you take. There are four different kinds of experiences, based on the dosage; these are called plateaus.

The first plateau is a mild stimulant effect with a little bit of a buzz, and has been compared to MDA .

The second plateau is more intoxicating and has been compared to being drunk and stoned at the same time.

The third plateau is dissociative, like a lower dose of ketamine.

The fourth plateau is fully dissociative like a higher dose of ketamine.

You should not [emphasis original!] attempt higher plateau doses unless you have someone with you who can take care of you in case you get sick or freak out. It happens on DXM.

Many things can happen unexpectedly on upper plateaus, such as spontaneous memory recall, complex delusions, hallucinations, out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, and perceived contact with spiritual or alien entities. You need to be pretty stable and grounded before you can handle these things“.

“Stable and grounded” would not describe the behavioral or social pattern of Trayvon Martin who was moved from house to house, parent to parent, and surrounded by a litany of on-again, off-again, relationships from his parent’s partners. Could a “complex delusion” or “hallucination“ perhaps elicit a paranoia ”tracked” by George Zimmerman?

One thing is sure – young Trayvon was CLEARLY ANYTHING BUT ”STABLE AND GROUNDED” in both his physical and emotional address.

In another section – “Is DXM Dangerous” – the Author again makes note of the possibility of “bad trips…psychotic breaks…psychological addiction and depression and irreversible brain damage“. www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_quickfaq.shtml#toc.3.10

To repeat the obvious, THIS IS VERY VOLATILE, DANGEROUS STUFF especially in the hands of an impulsive, cognitively immature, and adolescent minded individual like 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

One of the problems with DXM is that with long-term or regular use “most of the pleasurable effects of DXM tend to go away … Tolerance can build rapidly, leaving one only with a general sensation of being high and stupid.“

[Tennesseer]

Jul 15, 2013 21:48:11 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 15, 2013 18:16:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

skittles + tea + Robitussin DMX = "drug fueled rage" that got the best of him.

It's entirely possible.  It's at least as possible as the notion that George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon, chased him down for four full minutes- in circles, I guess, caught him- and then, managing to inflict a single wound on TM's finger, then shot him, and kicked his own ass.

We know from Trayvon’s own words that he’s experienced “lean” – and since he knows what DXM is – but thinks the promethazine/codeine cocktail is “a higher dose” then he’s also experienced DXM, at least at a “lower plateau.”

In answer to the question “What’s the DXM Trip Like” the author www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_quickfaq.shtml#toc.3.6 says:

“Well, that depends on how much you take. There are four different kinds of experiences, based on the dosage; these are called plateaus.

The first plateau is a mild stimulant effect with a little bit of a buzz, and has been compared to MDA .

The second plateau is more intoxicating and has been compared to being drunk and stoned at the same time.

The third plateau is dissociative, like a lower dose of ketamine.

The fourth plateau is fully dissociative like a higher dose of ketamine.

You should not [emphasis original!] attempt higher plateau doses unless you have someone with you who can take care of you in case you get sick or freak out. It happens on DXM.

Many things can happen unexpectedly on upper plateaus, such as spontaneous memory recall, complex delusions, hallucinations, out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, and perceived contact with spiritual or alien entities. You need to be pretty stable and grounded before you can handle these things“.

“Stable and grounded” would not describe the behavioral or social pattern of Trayvon Martin who was moved from house to house, parent to parent, and surrounded by a litany of on-again, off-again, relationships from his parent’s partners. Could a “complex delusion” or “hallucination“ perhaps elicit a paranoia ”tracked” by George Zimmerman?

One thing is sure – young Trayvon was CLEARLY ANYTHING BUT ”STABLE AND GROUNDED” in both his physical and emotional address.

In another section – “Is DXM Dangerous” – the Author again makes note of the possibility of “bad trips…psychotic breaks…psychological addiction and depression and irreversible brain damage“. www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_quickfaq.shtml#toc.3.10

To repeat the obvious, THIS IS VERY VOLATILE, DANGEROUS STUFF especially in the hands of an impulsive, cognitively immature, and adolescent minded individual like 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

One of the problems with DXM is that with long-term or regular use “most of the pleasurable effects of DXM tend to go away … Tolerance can build rapidly, leaving one only with a general sensation of being high and stupid.“

Now prove dextromethorphan was in his system. It should be specifically noted in his autopsy report. Don't assume it's a fatty liver or other organ abnormality. If dextromethorphan is not in the autopsy report you can not assume it could be. Like the facts of the killing provided by GZ, we can only go by the given proof.

[Sum Dum Gai]

however if he did manage to find the connection he was looking for to get the codeine cough syrup, that would show up in toxicology- and it apparently didn't

So the answer is no.  The autopsy showed that he wasn't drunk or high at the time of his death.

[EVT1]

Watch does not equal pursue.  But luckily for George his hand written report that referred to TM as 'the suspect' 24 times was in no way akin to police investigation or jargon.  'The Suspect' is dead.  The 'murderer' is a free man.

If you attack a dead teenager's character to support an avoidable homicide- you might be a racist redneck....

[EVT1]

Anyone that is going after the drug angle as some justification for his death is a disgusting human being.  Why continue beating down a dead person?  Trial is over- not enough for you?  You want a judicial determination that TM was a dangerous thug that deserved death?  So you can sleep better at night knowing GZ did the country  a service?  Below trash....

[mmhmm]

Jul 15, 2013 19:35:30 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

skittles + tea + Robitussin DMX = "drug fueled rage" that got the best of him.

Yeah... without the Tussin it's just high fructose corn syrup and a bunch of random dye numbers.  For all those going on about the cough syrup, answer me one question, did Trayvon have any in his system during the autopsy?

No, not according to the autopsy report.

[mmhmm]

Jul 16, 2013 21:07:25 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Here's the shake down.  TM was trained in MMA fighting.  GZ apparently was not and had the skinned up head.  Everyone knows the story. 

What shoulda, coulda, woulda been a better plan, didn't happen.

Police don't protect you.  They report on the problem after the fact.  Bottom line:  Save yourself, get away.

Neighborhood watch, yes we have one.  The more people out and about, the more watching going on.  A snoopy neighbor can be priceless when they are needed.

Not exactly, Artemis.  GZ was the one with the MMA training, not TM.

[Opti]

Thanks Mmhmm. I was wondering if there was yet another crazy blog out there or something. George belonged to a MMA gym however according to testimony he "sucks" ie. read is a wimp and just went there for health reasons. (The court testimony I listened to detailed his lack of prowess in the art of punching, for example. )

[Artemis Windsong]

I stand corrected.  GZ should have just punched him out.

[Opti]

Is it the actual TM who is dead, or one of the many with the same name about the same age? One Trayvon Martin's pics, including the FU finger circulated pretty early, and he was the wrong Trayvon. Still pops up in internet searches and older online articles though.


With fights initial conditions and "agreements" about the fight do matter. There are fights guys have to prove who is stronger. There are fights people have because they are angry in a bar. And there are fights which seem to have no rules like when strangers end up fighting each other in the dark. People who fight well on their feet do not always fight well on the ground and vice versa. GZ was capable of domestic violence, assaulting an officer, and bodily throwing a woman when doing a security gig. He isn't the saintly dough boy some want him portrayed as either. By GZ's own admission, he pushed TM back along the sidewalk.

Maybe Trayvon was the better fighter that night. Since he's dead, I'm not sure I can agree with that. Even the witnesses only saw snippets of the end of the fight. I'm not willing to be conclusive on almost anything pertaining to that fight.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 17, 2013 19:10:58 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Correction #3.  I asked DH about the fight ability of TM and GZ.  He showed me an internet fight video of TM knocking the snot out of a guy.  I don't have a link.  Clearly TM had more fight ability than GZ.

Ask you DH for the link?