Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 9:49:06 GMT -5
I agree...or until I felt my life was in danger, which is what Zimmerman did Lol, but then we get back to wether he only felt his life was in danger because he followed the guy. I didn't notice a conviction on stalking or false imprisonment. What did Zimmerman do to deserve to be attacked?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 9:52:00 GMT -5
The point everyone seems to be missing is that it was Trayvon's neighborhood, too. He had every right tow walk around every sidewalk, past every house, down every street, unmolested, every day. In fact, if it wasn't his neighborhood, he still had the same right. He had the right not to be killled in his own neighborhood for walking down the street wearing a hoodie and dark skin. He wasn't doing anything until Zimmerman started following him and continued the pursuit after the police told him to lay off. It is his faul that Trayvon Martin is dead, not Trayvon Martin's. If Trayvon does not attack Zimmerman, would he be alive today? Once you answer that, then you'll see your connect the dot theory falls on its face. There was many choices by both sides that could have forked the outcome.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 14, 2013 9:53:04 GMT -5
Neighborhood watch is supposed to observe and report, which is what should have happened. Zimmerman initiated this whole thing. So according to what you just said, he had a right to observe (follow, "stalk") him? This unarmed child?
The National Sheriff's Association is in charge of the Neighborhood Watch program across the country. In regards to your comments above, this is from the National Sheriff's Association Neighborhood Watch program manual:
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Jul 14, 2013 9:55:16 GMT -5
I don't know all the details of the trial, but to me the question is why the neighborhood watch was carrying a gun. I know Americans are all about the right to bear arms but I didn't think this was a watch in an inner city somewhere, it was an affluent gated community right? The recent problems were just vandalism, not gang activity.
Im glad I live in rural Canada where wearing a hoodie is not a death sentence.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 9:58:09 GMT -5
So Tina, imagine this was been your favorite nephew, visiting your house, wearing jeans and a hoodie. Would you tell him he can't wear the hoodie to walk to the store because it might make the neighbors nervous? If one of your neighbors followed him and confronted your nephew because they thought he looked suspicious even though all he was doing was walking down the street eating skittles, what would you think about that?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:00:19 GMT -5
I don't know all the details of the trial, but to me the question is why the neighborhood watch was carrying a gun. I know Americans are all about the right to bear arms but I didn't think this was a watch in an inner city somewhere, it was an affluent gated community right? The recent problems were just vandalism, not gang activity. Im glad I live in rural Canada where wearing a hoodie is not a death sentence. Why shouldn't he? Assuming he had a carry concealed permit and it was not illegal where he was, he had every right to have a gun. My husband has a carry concealed permit and if he were out me that I would feel much safer if he could protect himself
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:02:52 GMT -5
So Tina, imagine this was been your favorite nephew, visiting your house, wearing jeans and a hoodie. Would you tell him he can't wear the hoodie to walk to the store because it might make the neighbors nervous? If one of your neighbors followed him and confronted your nephew because they thought he looked suspicious even though all he was doing was walking down the street eating skittles, what would you think about that? If he was dressed just in jeans and a regular hoodie, no big deal. He was dressed like a gang banger I would have an issue. I would have an issue if my favorite niece came to my house dressed like a stripper and wanted to walks the streets. I didn't see pictures of how TM was dressed that night. I have seen pictures of him on other occasions and if he walked my neighborhood like that, he would have been out if place, highly suspicious and I would have been afraid.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 14, 2013 10:03:52 GMT -5
The point everyone seems to be missing is that it was Trayvon's neighborhood, too. He had every right tow walk around every sidewalk, past every house, down every street, unmolested, every day. In fact, if it wasn't his neighborhood, he still had the same right. He had the right not to be killled in his own neighborhood for walking down the street wearing a hoodie and dark skin. He wasn't doing anything until Zimmerman started following him and continued the pursuit after the police told him to lay off. It is his faul that Trayvon Martin is dead, not Trayvon Martin's. If Trayvon does not attack Zimmerman, would he be alive today? Once you answer that, then you'll see your connect the dot theory falls on its face. There was many choices by both sides that could have forked the outcome.
Trayvon Martin was the one standing his ground, per the law. Zimmerman was the suspicious person pursuing Martin. TM went to the store to buy some candy. Zimmerman was going after him with a gun.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:04:18 GMT -5
So Tina, imagine this was been your favorite nephew, visiting your house, wearing jeans and a hoodie. Would you tell him he can't wear the hoodie to walk to the store because it might make the neighbors nervous? If one of your neighbors followed him and confronted your nephew because they thought he looked suspicious even though all he was doing was walking down the street eating skittles, what would you think about that?
I'm not Tina, but I'll answer the same question:
I would think GREAT, my neighborhood watch is doing its job. My nephew would have stayed respectful and lived.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 14, 2013 10:04:34 GMT -5
Zimmerman called the cops, he shouldnt have gotten out of the car and confronted Martin. Again, his being suspicious was walking... Gives new life to the phrase walking while black... He didn't try to get into cars, or homes, he was just walking. Maybe because I'm the minority as a white person in my neighborhood, but I'm not going to even call the cops if someone is just walking down the street. You have also said you live in a less than stellar neighborhood (I think that was you...maybe I'm confusing the posters again). In my development seeing people dressed like gangbangers just doesn't happen. It happens in surrounding towns but not mine. It would immediately be suspicious to see someone like that walking the streets of my development late at night. You have to out it in context. If someone dressed like that was walking the streets of the crime ridden city near where I live it would be normal. It isnt where I live. Anyone walking at night is suspicious? Even in my parents very nice and rich neighborhood, walking isnt suspicious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:07:26 GMT -5
If Trayvon does not attack Zimmerman, would he be alive today? Once you answer that, then you'll see your connect the dot theory falls on its face. There was many choices by both sides that could have forked the outcome.
Trayvon Martin was the one standing his ground, per the law. Zimmerman was the suspicious person pursuing Martin. TM went to the store to buy some candy. Zimmerman was going after him with a gun. 1. Wasn't a Stand Your Ground case. 2. Per the law, the jury didn't agree with you 3. The gun wasn't in play until the attack. Zimmerman wasn't waving it out the window or pointing it at Trayvon when he got out of the vehicle. If Zimmerman doesn't get attacked, it doesn't come out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:10:03 GMT -5
I don't know where you all live, but where I live, most people that are just tooting along minding their own business aren't going to think that someone that is obviously following them is up to any good. They aren't going to turn around and sweetly say "how may I help you sir". They're going to try to protect themselves. IF Trayvon threw the first punch after Zimmerman followed him, I can understand why he would feel the need to do so.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Jul 14, 2013 10:10:58 GMT -5
Why shouldn't he have had a gun? A. He was only neighborhood watch not police. b. would he have been as confident to confront someone without it? c. It probably would have ended in only a fist fight at most. d. It was a gated community in Florida not the Wild West!!
I do not see the necessity to carry a concealed weapon in an area where most crimes are committed by accountants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:11:40 GMT -5
So Tina, imagine this was been your favorite nephew, visiting your house, wearing jeans and a hoodie. Would you tell him he can't wear the hoodie to walk to the store because it might make the neighbors nervous? If one of your neighbors followed him and confronted your nephew because they thought he looked suspicious even though all he was doing was walking down the street eating skittles, what would you think about that?
I'm not Tina, but I'll answer the same question:
I would think GREAT, my neighborhood watch is doing its job. My nephew would have stayed respectful and lived.
I don't know how calm I'd be if a strange man is following me around. Yet you are so sure you would be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:12:41 GMT -5
So Tina, imagine this was been your favorite nephew, visiting your house, wearing jeans and a hoodie. Would you tell him he can't wear the hoodie to walk to the store because it might make the neighbors nervous? If one of your neighbors followed him and confronted your nephew because they thought he looked suspicious even though all he was doing was walking down the street eating skittles, what would you think about that?
I'm not Tina, but I'll answer the same question:
I would think GREAT, my neighborhood watch is doing its job. My nephew would have stayed respectful and lived.
And to me, that is the root of the problem I am having with this. Apparently Trayvon didn't know his place.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:16:48 GMT -5
Why shouldn't he have had a gun? A. He was only neighborhood watch not police. b. would he have been as confident to confront someone without it? c. It probably would have ended in only a fist fight at most. d. It was a gated community in Florida not the Wild West!! I do not see the necessity to carry a concealed weapon in an area where most crimes are committed by accountants. I guess you live in a much better area. As I said, in the last 15 years the gangbangers have moved into the area. People are getting robbed at gunpoint regularly. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:17:02 GMT -5
I'm not Tina, but I'll answer the same question:
I would think GREAT, my neighborhood watch is doing its job. My nephew would have stayed respectful and lived.
And to me, that is the root of the problem I am having with this. Apparently Trayvon didn't know his place. The term "his place" is loaded. THIS ISN'T ABOUT RACE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:17:35 GMT -5
What I'm learning so far in YMOT:
white girl getting harassed by an adult male - stick up for yourself black boy getting harassed by an adult male - be compliant and say nothing. unless you live there, walking around in a gated community is possible criminal activity.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:18:19 GMT -5
I'm not Tina, but I'll answer the same question:
I would think GREAT, my neighborhood watch is doing its job. My nephew would have stayed respectful and lived.
I don't know how calm I'd be if a strange man is following me around. Yet you are so sure you would be. I would have been afraid....he had a cell phone, why didn't he call 911 if he was afraid? That is how I would have reacted
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:19:01 GMT -5
Why shouldn't he have had a gun? A. He was only neighborhood watch not police. b. would he have been as confident to confront someone without it? c. It probably would have ended in only a fist fight at most. d. It was a gated community in Florida not the Wild West!! I do not see the necessity to carry a concealed weapon in an area where most crimes are committed by accountants. I guess you live in a much better area. As I said, in the last 15 years the gangbangers have moved into the area. People are getting robbed at gunpoint regularly. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight But it is ok to bring a gun to a fistfight... Got it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:20:21 GMT -5
What I'm learning so far in YMOT: white girl getting harassed by an adult male - stick up for yourself black boy getting harassed by an adult male - be compliant and say nothing. unless you live there, walking around in a gated community is possible criminal activity.
My must be learning through your filter.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:21:12 GMT -5
What I'm learning so far in YMOT: white girl getting harassed by an adult male - stick up for yourself black boy getting harassed by an adult male - be compliant and say nothing. unless you live there, walking around in a gated community is possible criminal activity. Actually, if you don't live in a gated community, wouldn't it be trespassing to be there? I would kick my daughters ass if she confronted some guy following her instead of calling 911, making lots of noise to attract attention (never yell rape, scream fire at the top of your lungs), etc. It was no smarter for TM to confront Zimmerman than he other way around
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:21:34 GMT -5
So Tina, imagine this was been your favorite nephew, visiting your house, wearing jeans and a hoodie. Would you tell him he can't wear the hoodie to walk to the store because it might make the neighbors nervous? If one of your neighbors followed him and confronted your nephew because they thought he looked suspicious even though all he was doing was walking down the street eating skittles, what would you think about that? If he was dressed just in jeans and a regular hoodie, no big deal. He was dressed like a gang banger I would have an issue. I would have an issue if my favorite niece came to my house dressed like a stripper and wanted to walks the streets. I didn't see pictures of how TM was dressed that night. I have seen pictures of him on other occasions and if he walked my neighborhood like that, he would have been out if place, highly suspicious and I would have been afraid. From what I understand, Trayvon was wearing jeans and a regular hoodie. You keep saying "dressed like a gangbanger", which is why I asked how do they dress. I guess I'm surprised that there's still a dress code up north. Here, you can't tell what is what just by their clothing. There are a few tells, but the general clothing ain't it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:21:48 GMT -5
I don't know how calm I'd be if a strange man is following me around. Yet you are so sure you would be. I would have been afraid....he had a cell phone, why didn't he call 911 if he was afraid? That is how I would have reacted Yes, I agree that he should have called the cops, but I am well aware that there is a deep-seated distrust of law enforcement in the black community, especially among poor urban blacks.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Jul 14, 2013 10:21:59 GMT -5
I don't have a "connect-the-dot" theory. Trayvon Martin had the right to be walking around. George Zimmerman, at least in my opinion, was playing Super Vigilante Detective Justice Man, and was carrying a gun. He called the police to report a "suspicious" man in his neighborhood. He reported that Martin was walking and "looking about." He also stated that " These assholes always get away." The police told him to desist following him. He disregarded the police. He continued to follow Trayvon Martin. A confrontation ensued. I think that Zimmerman went out that night to play cops and robbers and killed an innocent person.
If someone was following me around and I was just walking down the street, there would be some kind of conversation on my part if they kept it up.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:22:48 GMT -5
I guess you live in a much better area. As I said, in the last 15 years the gangbangers have moved into the area. People are getting robbed at gunpoint regularly. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight But it is ok to bring a gun to a fistfight... Got it If I were being beat up, i would not hesitate to shoot. Regardless if what started the fight ( or who) the fact is he was getting beat up. He was clearly no match for that "child".
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jul 14, 2013 10:23:40 GMT -5
Something looks suspicious: you call the COPS! Let them handle it. If he witness the kid doing something illegal I would understand trying to be a hero; but he was just walking...not causing a scene, not fighting, not stealing, not doing anything illegal. If that is suspicious to you, call the COPS. And it was 5 white women and 1 Hispanic women that was on that jury. That is not a priority call for the cops. By the time a cop would have arrived, Trayvon would have either left the neighborhood or raped 12 white women. WTF, MMC?? why the hell would you assume that he would rape 12 white women? racist, much?!
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Jul 14, 2013 10:23:45 GMT -5
So Tina, imagine this was been your favorite nephew, visiting your house, wearing jeans and a hoodie. Would you tell him he can't wear the hoodie to walk to the store because it might make the neighbors nervous? If one of your neighbors followed him and confronted your nephew because they thought he looked suspicious even though all he was doing was walking down the street eating skittles, what would you think about that?
I'm not Tina, but I'll answer the same question:
I would think GREAT, my neighborhood watch is doing its job. My nephew would have stayed respectful and lived.
Why should Martin have had to "stay respectful" to a total stranger who was getting out of his car to do who knows what ? "Respectful" exactly how ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:24:24 GMT -5
What I'm learning so far in YMOT: white girl getting harassed by an adult male - stick up for yourself black boy getting harassed by an adult male - be compliant and say nothing. unless you live there, walking around in a gated community is possible criminal activity. Actually, if you don't live in a gated community, wouldn't it be trespassing to be there? I would kick my daughters ass if she confronted some guy following her instead of calling 911, making lots of noise to attract attention (never yell rape, scream fire at the top of your lungs), etc. It was no smarter for TM to confront Zimmerman than he other way around yes, that would be trespassing. Hardly something to die over. And I am not excusing Martin's reaction - both parties handled this in an extremely dangerous and unproductive way.
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kent
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Post by kent on Jul 14, 2013 10:25:42 GMT -5
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