Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:26:04 GMT -5
If he was dressed just in jeans and a regular hoodie, no big deal. He was dressed like a gang banger I would have an issue. I would have an issue if my favorite niece came to my house dressed like a stripper and wanted to walks the streets. I didn't see pictures of how TM was dressed that night. I have seen pictures of him on other occasions and if he walked my neighborhood like that, he would have been out if place, highly suspicious and I would have been afraid. From what I understand, Trayvon was wearing jeans and a regular hoodie. You keep saying "dressed like a gangbanger", which is why I asked how do they dress. I guess I'm surprised that there's still a dress code up north. Here, you can't tell what is what just by their clothing. There are a few tells, but the general clothing ain't it. I said I didn't know what he was wearing that night. I'm going by pictures I've seen if him. The pics I saw have him dressed and posing like a gangbanger. I wasn't there that night, have no idea what made him look suspicious, who threw the first punch, etc. I'm stating that if someone came to my neighborhood looking like I have seen TM look in pictures (not the angelic pics the liberal media keeps putting up) I would have been afraid.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:27:48 GMT -5
That is not a priority call for the cops. By the time a cop would have arrived, Trayvon would have either left the neighborhood or raped 12 white women. WTF, MMC?? why the hell would you assume that he would rape 12 white women? racist, much?!
#facepalm
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:28:28 GMT -5
Actually, if you don't live in a gated community, wouldn't it be trespassing to be there? I would kick my daughters ass if she confronted some guy following her instead of calling 911, making lots of noise to attract attention (never yell rape, scream fire at the top of your lungs), etc. It was no smarter for TM to confront Zimmerman than he other way around yes, that would be trespassing. Hardly something to die over. And I am not excusing Martin's reaction - both parties handled this in an extremely dangerous and unproductive way. Walking around isn't what got him shot. I agree. They both should have acted differently. But I still don't believe Zimmerman should have been found guilty. It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback. Without witnesses, neither side will ever know what really happened
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:30:09 GMT -5
Those are more inline with the gangbanger type pictures that i saw.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:31:12 GMT -5
I'm not Tina, but I'll answer the same question:
I would think GREAT, my neighborhood watch is doing its job. My nephew would have stayed respectful and lived.
Why should Martin have had to "stay respectful" to a total stranger who was getting out of his car to do who knows what ? "Respectful" exactly how ?
Tell me how you think this all went down? Zimmerman is out of his vehicle, Trayvon is standing there. What do you think Trayvon was saying and doing? How did his fists end up on Zimmerman and had Zimmerman pinned to the ground?
If you think Trayvon was just standing there saying "My dad is here I was just buying skittles", you are living in a fantasy world.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:32:18 GMT -5
All I know for me, personally, I could not tell someone's race at night in the rain if the hoodie was up over their head and I was at any sort of distance. Shhh...it has to be about race....it is ALWAYS a out race :-p
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 14, 2013 10:34:17 GMT -5
Zimmerman's actions were not criminal. It isn't wise to get out of your car and go confront a stranger, but it isn't illegal. The law was broken when Trayvon physically assaulted Zimmerman. And, unfortunately, he choose to engage in a fight with a man who had a loaded gun. He brought about his own demise. Trayvon could have ran away, called 911 or any number of things without taking a punch. He choose to do so with fatal consequences. And, it is very sad. Teens do stupid things. This so happened to be the biggest mistake of his life.
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kent
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Post by kent on Jul 14, 2013 10:35:48 GMT -5
Zimmerman lost me with that conversation. We know the end result. "Need" ...a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there. Perhaps Zimmerman took the meaning of that word literally and elected to pursue the matter nonetheless because he wasn't told to DISCONTINUE following Martin?
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Jul 14, 2013 10:36:42 GMT -5
Why should Martin have had to "stay respectful" to a total stranger who was getting out of his car to do who knows what ? "Respectful" exactly how ?
Tell me how you think this all went down? Zimmerman is out of his vehicle, Trayvon is standing there. What do you think Trayvon was saying and doing? How did his fists end up on Zimmerman and had Zimmerman pinned to the ground?
If you think Trayvon was just standing there saying "My dad is here I was just buying skittles", you are living in a fantasy world.
I don't really know how it went down, and neither do you. I think you kind of live in fantasy world, myself. I do know that according to the transcript of Zimmerman's call to 911, the kid/guy/child/young man was wearing a gray hoodie and walking around. Again I say, just how was Trayvon Martin supposed to "stay respectful and live ? " Please explain what you wrote. Whether you believe that I live in fantasy world is irrelevant to me. We have to go a signing so will be back later.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:40:49 GMT -5
Zimmerman's actions were not criminal. It isn't wise to get out of your car and go confront a stranger, but it isn't illegal. The law was broken when Trayvon physically assaulted Zimmerman. And, unfortunately, he choose to engage in a fight with a man who had a loaded gun. He brought about his own demise. Trayvon could have ran away, called 911 or any number of things without taking a punch. He choose to do so with fatal consequences. And, it is very sad. Teens do stupid things. This so happened to be the biggest mistake of his life. So Zimmerman has zero responsibility in this whole thing? So it's okay to do what he did, and if someone dies in then process, it's "oh well"? That's what I was afraid of.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:42:54 GMT -5
Tell me how you think this all went down? Zimmerman is out of his vehicle, Trayvon is standing there. What do you think Trayvon was saying and doing? How did his fists end up on Zimmerman and had Zimmerman pinned to the ground?
If you think Trayvon was just standing there saying "My dad is here I was just buying skittles", you are living in a fantasy world.
I don't really know how it went down, and neither do you. I think you kind of live in fantasy world, myself. I do know that according to the transcript of Zimmerman's call to 911, the kid/guy/child/young man was wearing a gray hoodie and walking around. Again I say, just how was Trayvon Martin supposed to "stay respectful and live ? " Please explain what you wrote. Whether you believe that I live in fantasy world is irrelevant to me. We have to go a signing so will be back later. I personally would not have confronted anyone that was following me.... Everyone says Zimmerman should have called 911....why doesn't that hold true for TM? Why was it I'm for him to confront Zimmerman but not the other way around?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:43:22 GMT -5
Zimmerman's actions were not criminal. It isn't wise to get out of your car and go confront a stranger, but it isn't illegal. The law was broken when Trayvon physically assaulted Zimmerman. And, unfortunately, he choose to engage in a fight with a man who had a loaded gun. He brought about his own demise. Trayvon could have ran away, called 911 or any number of things without taking a punch. He choose to do so with fatal consequences. And, it is very sad. Teens do stupid things. This so happened to be the biggest mistake of his life. So Zimmerman has zero responsibility in this whole thing? So it's okay to do what he did, and if someone dies in then process, it's "oh well"? That's what I was afraid of. Does TM have any responsibility in this?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 10:49:06 GMT -5
So Zimmerman has zero responsibility in this whole thing? So it's okay to do what he did, and if someone dies in then process, it's "oh well"? That's what I was afraid of. Does TM have any responsibility in this? I already said that he does, but according to Shooby, TM brought all of it on himself. I cannot agree with that.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 14, 2013 10:53:04 GMT -5
I'm not Tina but I'll answer. I would expect him to answer the neighbor something along the lines of, "I'm visiting my aunt, went to the store to get some snacks." If the neighbor was still questioning him or showing him doubt, I would expect him to tell the neighbor he could follow him and check if he wanted, or call me on the cell phone they both had. I would expect my neighbor to let him know who he was, and either follow him to my house/call me to conform. Of course I would have also told him we had a neighborhood watch before he went out. Hell, he wouldn't even have to be "respectful," he could say it with some teenage snark if he wanted too.
What I would expect neither to do is to get physical.
Okay confession time, as a teenage I hung out with the bad crowd. And while I stayed mostly with in the law, I knew the kids and often walked around with the kids who did not. You know what we did when followed, we kept walking, and when stopped we answered questions, maybe not fully honestly, but we answered them, we didn't attack the person following us. I can't see myself doing anything differnt.
And yes I can see myself following someone I think is suspicious, and asking them what they are doing in my neighborhood. I would most likely ask them if they are lost first and if they need directions, see I'm going to be sneaky like that but even if I say... "hey you look suspicious are you up to no good," it doesn't give them a right to attack me, they can tell me to fuck off if they want, but they don't get to physically attack me. Yes I may see someone dressed as a slut and think they are dressed as a slut, doesn't give me the right to toss more clothes at them, doesn't give anyone else a right to put their hands on them.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 14, 2013 10:56:55 GMT -5
I was fully behind charging GZ to the maximum of the law. Go back to the original thread and look at my old posts. I think GZ is a bit bizarre. Sitting around in a parking lot with a loaded gun looking for suspicious people. I DO think he initiated the whole sequence of events. He SHOULD have STAYED in his car, period. But after listening to testimony and eye witness, despite my feeling that he should not have followed Travyon, and i do believe he followed him and intitiated contact. But, none of what he did was CRIMINALLY wrong. Trayvon turned this into a physical altercation. He could have run away, told GZ to F off and keep walking, call 911 or any number of things. Trayvon had NO other physical injuries indicating that GZ hit him. The Law was broken when Trayvon initiated the physical assault, so yes, he is responsible for those actions. Also eye witnesses place Travyon on top of Martin. And, the cries for help, Trayvon was not being beaten so it is illogical to believe those were his cries, i now believe that was GZ. He made several cries for help, no help came and he fired. That is self defense.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 14, 2013 10:57:22 GMT -5
I think they both have responsibility, I think they both made bad judgement, I think most likely both escalated the situation. I'm going to be lazy and copy my post from the PM board............................
I agree with the verdict. I don't think this case ever should have gone to trial. There wasn't enough evidence to over come the burden of reasonable doubt. It went to trial simple because the public demanded it.
TM wasn't doing anything wrong walking home, GZ was not doing anything wrong by following him, and yes I know people will disagree with that on an emotional level, but legally nothing wrong. Both were in their rights to question the other one on what they were doing, if wanted, again nothing illegal when asking someone a question. The other didn't have to answer, could ignore the other one, ect... Someone at some point infringed on the others rights when they got physical. I don't know who did that, conflicting eye witness reports, conflicting evidence, ect... But the evidence did not show that GZ beyond a reasonable doubt did it. And if TM did throw the first punch, and he was on top of GZ, then I can believe that GZ feared for his life. Was this what happened, I don't know. But can I reasonable believe that this is what could have happened, yes.
my theory is that they both were confrontational with the other, both had a chip on their shoulder, and both escalated the conflict, we know what the end result was. Overall it was a very tragic sad situation, that most likely could not have occurred if either TM or GZ had made better choices. JMO
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:57:51 GMT -5
Does TM have any responsibility in this? I already said that he does, but according to Shooby, TM brought all of it on himself. I cannot agree with that. The question is, did Zimmerman do anything illegal by following TM? If he did, then he is at fault. If not, then the one who started the right is at fault. The problem is, we will never know who started the fight. We do know that Zimmerman called 911. TM never called 911 so it makes me think he wasn't as afraid for his life that people are claiming he was. Some creepy "white Hispanic" starts following me and I'm calling 911 and screaming at the top of my lungs. I wasn't in the courtroom to hear the evidence presented. I wasn't there to see how the fight started.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 10:59:44 GMT -5
I think they both have responsibility, I think they both made bad judgement, I think most likely both escalated the situation. I'm going to be lazy and copy my post from the PM board............................ I agree with the verdict. I don't think this case ever should have gone to trial. There wasn't enough evidence to over come the burden of reasonable doubt. It went to trial simple because the public demanded it. TM wasn't doing anything wrong walking home, GZ was not doing anything wrong by following him, and yes I know people will disagree with that on an emotional level, but legally nothing wrong. Both were in their rights to question the other one on what they were doing, if wanted, again nothing illegal when asking someone a question. The other didn't have to answer, could ignore the other one, ect... Someone at some point infringed on the others rights when they got physical. I don't know who did that, conflicting eye witness reports, conflicting evidence, ect... But the evidence did not show that GZ beyond a reasonable doubt did it. And if TM did throw the first punch, and he was on top of GZ, then I can believe that GZ feared for his life. Was this what happened, I don't know. But can I reasonable believe that this is what could have happened, yes. my theory is that they both were confrontational with the other, both had a chip on their shoulder, and both escalated the conflict, we know what the end result was. Overall it was a very tragic sad situation, that most likely could not have occurred if either TM or GZ had made better choices. JMO That was I just said...was GZ doing anything illegal by following? If not, since we don't know who started the fight there is no way to know who is guilty
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 14, 2013 11:03:54 GMT -5
"I'm not Tina but I'll answer. I would expect him to answer the neighbor something along the lines of, "I'm visiting my aunt, went to the store to get some snacks." If the neighbor was still questioning him or showing him doubt, I would expect him to tell the neighbor he could follow him and check if he wanted, or call me on the cell phone they both had. I would expect my neighbor to let him know who he was, and either follow him to my house/call me to conform. Of course I would have also told him we had a neighborhood watch before he went out. Hell, he wouldn't even have to be "respectful," he could say it with some teenage snark if he wanted too."
It's my understanding Zimmerman never identified himself as a Neighborhood Watch person nor even spoke to Martin before their altercation began. If you are going to play Neighborhood Watch 'cop', you better identify yourself as early as possible. Zimmerman could have identified himself to Martin from safety of his SUV. As far as I know, the police must identify themselves as police officers before they legally bust through someone's front door.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 14, 2013 11:12:33 GMT -5
Not sure he legally had to, but how long would it take to say, "hey I'm neighborhood watch what are you doing here,". Perhaps if TM had waited 20 seconds before striking at him that is all it would have taken for none of this to happen.
Of course who knows, GZ could have grabbed TM's shoulder as he was trying to walk away, and TM came back with a swing. In which case I would say he should have been found guilty.
But we don't know what happened, who escalated it to a fight, and there is the reasonable doubt.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 11:12:44 GMT -5
From what I understand, Trayvon was wearing jeans and a regular hoodie. You keep saying "dressed like a gangbanger", which is why I asked how do they dress. I guess I'm surprised that there's still a dress code up north. Here, you can't tell what is what just by their clothing. There are a few tells, but the general clothing ain't it. I said I didn't know what he was wearing that night. I'm going by pictures I've seen if him. The pics I saw have him dressed and posing like a gangbanger. I wasn't there that night, have no idea what made him look suspicious, who threw the first punch, etc. I'm stating that if someone came to my neighborhood looking like I have seen TM look in pictures (not the angelic pics the liberal media keeps putting up) I would have been afraid. I'll share a personal experience that's probably one of several things that may color my perception of this. I have aftermarket chrome wheels on my car, a ring in my nose, and sometimes I have almost blond streaks in my hair. Last spring I went to a Home Depot to get a lawn trimmer because mine quit while I was doing my yard. I still had on the jeans I'd had on working in the yard, and a t-shirt. The Home Depot is close to my house, but in another state. A family parked next to me and when they were walking behind me to go inside the store, the man said that we needed to take our ghetto asses back to our state. I mentioned above the things that I assume might make someone think I look ghetto. I don't think I look ghetto, but I understand some people might think so. Whatever. Just because someone percieves my appearance a certain way, does that mean I have to be restricted in where I go? I should expect to be treated poorly and harrassed or worse and just accept it if I go to an affluent area, even if I'm not doing anything wrong? I'm a middle age woman and I run into this. I've lived in the south all my life and I can tell lots of stories from even before I got the car, the ring, and the dye. Still, I should be able to go anywhere I want to go and not be followed, confronted or harrassed as long as I'm not doing anything wrong. My son should be able to do the same thing. You say the manner of dress matters to you, not the color of the skin and I believe you. Well, for some people when you put the two together it's a double whammy and you can't win. I have absolutely no doubt that Trayvon Martin would've made some of your neighbors way more nervous than a young white guy doing exactly what Trayvon was doing. Which happened to be nothing but walking to his Dad's house, eating skittles, and wearing a hoodie. I honestly wish I didn't believe that, but I do. Thanks for answering me honestly. I wasn't picking on you, I genuinely wanted to know what you thought.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 11:14:26 GMT -5
Zimmerman's actions were not criminal. It isn't wise to get out of your car and go confront a stranger, but it isn't illegal. The law was broken when Trayvon physically assaulted Zimmerman. And, unfortunately, he choose to engage in a fight with a man who had a loaded gun. He brought about his own demise. Trayvon could have ran away, called 911 or any number of things without taking a punch. He choose to do so with fatal consequences. And, it is very sad. Teens do stupid things. This so happened to be the biggest mistake of his life. WOW!
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 14, 2013 11:28:12 GMT -5
I think he started this way, I think at some point he stopped and turned around with the intentions to fight whoever was behind him. I think a simple, "why are you following me man," and waiting for answer would have stopped this too. I think assumptions were made and acted on by both, when 60 seconds of conversations could have stopped the whole thing.
I can't speak for my neighbors, but I can say with my experience I knew plenty of white boys who were just as dangerous and law breaking. It's not the color of the skin. Some of it is clothes, but some of it is also posture, word choice and voice inflection. We send many verbal and nonverbal signals constantly, some intentional some not, that other's brains pick up on, decode and base opinions on, and our brains make opinions fast. I think I read somewhere we create a first impression within in the first 10 seconds of meeting someone based on all of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 11:29:52 GMT -5
I obviously come from a totally different world from most of you. I'm seriously surprised that so many people here think it's ok to follow and confront someone that's just walking down the street. And the expectation that the person you follow and confront should not possibly perceive a strange man following them as a threat so they should respond nicely and respectfully, is UNREAL. I can see (and agree with) reporting suspicious behavior to the police, but like Jenny asked pages ago, what did Trayvon do that was so suspicious?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 14, 2013 11:30:30 GMT -5
Zimmerman's actions were not criminal. It isn't wise to get out of your car and go confront a stranger, but it isn't illegal. The law was broken when Trayvon physically assaulted Zimmerman. And, unfortunately, he choose to engage in a fight with a man who had a loaded gun. He brought about his own demise. Trayvon could have ran away, called 911 or any number of things without taking a punch. He choose to do so with fatal consequences. And, it is very sad. Teens do stupid things. This so happened to be the biggest mistake of his life. WOW! Wow what? He crossed the line of criminality by striking physical blows.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 11:33:57 GMT -5
Wow what? He crossed the line of criminality by striking physical blows. Really? How do we know that? Because that's what Zimmerman said? LOL Everybody in Florida with homicidal tendencies knows how to get their story straight now.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 14, 2013 11:35:06 GMT -5
Not sure he legally had to, but how long would it take to say, "hey I'm neighborhood watch what are you doing here,". Perhaps if TM had waited 20 seconds before striking at him that is all it would have taken for none of this to happen. Of course who knows, GZ could have grabbed TM's shoulder as he was trying to walk away, and TM came back with a swing. In which case I would say he should have been found guilty. But we don't know what happened, who escalated it to a fight, and there is the reasonable doubt. GZ had two opportunities to announce himself and failed to do so. No legal responsibility to do so but if you are representing the community as the Neighborhood Watch patrol person, you should announce who you are and your intentions. The condo association did settle out of court with the Martin family for (around) $1 million because of Zimmerman's actions. www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting
In the end (today), the case criminal case is settled. Let's see what happens in the civil case the Martins have/will file against Zimmerman.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 11:35:36 GMT -5
I obviously come from a totally different world from most of you. I'm seriously surprised that so many people here think it's ok to follow and confront someone that's just walking down the street. And the expectation that the person you follow and confront should not possibly perceive a strange man following them as a threat so they should respond nicely and respectfully, is UNREAL. I can see (and agree with) reporting suspicious behavior to the police, but like Jenny asked pages ago, what did Trayvon do that was so suspicious? Oh you missed it? - he did not belong in that place - he should know his place - if he is going to be in that neighborhood he better follow a "dress code" I am one that will not re-act to kindly to a stranger following me in his car, then getting out of his car to follow me on foot. Per this board he should have been submissive and respectful to a total stranger following him around in the middle of the night. - black - did not dress appropriately - did not "belong" aka like pink encountered : should have gone back to the hood where he belongs. 3 strikes and you're out!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 14, 2013 11:36:43 GMT -5
That is the only thing i can conclude based on the evidence. Trayvon had not other noted injuries indicative of physical assault. GZ did. Eyewitnesses place Trayvon ON TOP of GZ. I am sorry but those are the facts. I was squarely behind putting GZ in the slammer for as long as possible until i heard all the facts. It is a terrible tragedy for the Martin family. It is a terrible tragedy to lose a young teen life. But, the facts of the trial are what they are and decisions have to be made based on that.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 14, 2013 11:37:43 GMT -5
Not sure he legally had to, but how long would it take to say, "hey I'm neighborhood watch what are you doing here,". Perhaps if TM had waited 20 seconds before striking at him that is all it would have taken for none of this to happen. Of course who knows, GZ could have grabbed TM's shoulder as he was trying to walk away, and TM came back with a swing. In which case I would say he should have been found guilty. But we don't know what happened, who escalated it to a fight, and there is the reasonable doubt. GZ had two opportunities to announce himself and failed to do so. No legal responsibility to do so but if you are representing the community as the Neighborhood Watch patrol person, you should announce who you are and your intentions. The condo association did settle out of court with the Martin family out for (around) $1 million because of Zimmerman's actions. www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting
In the end (today), the case criminal case is settled. Let's see what happens in the civil case the Martins have/will file against Zimmerman. Well, again neither Zimmerman nor Travyon were engaged in any illegal behavior UNTIL Trayvon crossed that line into an assault.
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