Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 11:42:20 GMT -5
Followed him in the car, probably. I doubt he would have gotten out and chased him though. He got his ass kicked by a skinny teenager. Batman he ain't.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 17, 2013 11:43:09 GMT -5
Zimmerman says he was following him in the vehicle, then passed him, and parked in front of where he was heading. Trayvon didn't let anyone catch up, he was pretty much screwed from the get go on the getting away front since the guy following him had wheels and Trayvon was on foot. Don't let the facts get in your way though, keep on believing the guy who's version of the events leading up to the altercation you readily admit has holes in his story and things that definitely don't match up to the recorded evidence. Honestly, how hard is it for some people to acknowledge the reality of truck be faster than a human being? I guess it was too confusing for some when I brought up a man running a 6 minute mile, 10 miles per hour if they could keep the pace, is equivalent to a vehicle doing 10mph. However, its really rare to see anyone actually drive 10 mph. Usually they drive at 20-30mph except for parking lots. It doesn't take uncommon sense to realize a guy in a truck has the advantage in places someone is walking near a road.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 17, 2013 11:45:24 GMT -5
Like following a young black male after dark on your own after being told that it wasn't necessary from 911 dispatch? Getting out of your vehicle to chase them down on foot after telling the dispatcher that they were running? Getting close enough to the suspect to be hit without identifying yourself in any way? Things like that? Maybe in Floriduh it is reasonable to expect dumber than average behavior?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 17, 2013 11:45:39 GMT -5
Isn't all manslaughter involuntary? When you intend to kill somebody it's murder not manslaughter, no? My understanding is that manslaughter is killing with malice and involuntary manslaughter is killing without malice. The reason why I personally would go with involuntary as opposed to voluntary is because the circumstances are too unclear to me. I think GZ is a f**king idiot but I don't think he set out to kill anyone that night. I think the gun just made him feel comfortable in his "cop wanna be" manner. I think he thought he was going to say something along the lines of free dirt bag and be the hero that caught a criminal. He didn't exactly get what he bargained for... i think he involuntarily caused TM's death.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 11:48:15 GMT -5
LOL!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 11:49:48 GMT -5
Totally agree. Murder charges were a mistake and over-reach by the prosecution. It probably cost them a manslaughter conviction.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 17, 2013 11:57:33 GMT -5
I can agree with that. What I don't know if in a court of law, since he was found to be acting in self-defence if that would still be a non-guilty. I have a feeling it would. But involuntary manslaughter should have been an option, it wasn't. It still might come down to who made the first physical contact (noting I am saying physical contact, not punch because if GZ put his hand on TM's shoulder to stop him, that would still make GZ guilty) . Not sure what the jury instructions would be with that charge. The other two seemed pretty clear that what GZ was thinking/feeling when he shot TM was the key to guilty/not guilty.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 12:02:03 GMT -5
Self defense is up to the jury to decide. To me personally you can't pick a fight and shoot your way out of it when you start losing, which is what Zimmerman did by acting like a creepy stalker, pervert, weirdo, or whatever instead of acting like a cop or neighborhood watchmen. You ever seen a cop not identify themselves, usually repeatedly and at the top of their lungs, before engaging a suspect? Martin had every right to stand his ground and defend himself when confronted by an unknown assailant following him around and chasing him in the dark.
* Editing out only this last sentence, Dark. Leave the racial slurs out of it, please. Thanks. - mmhmm, Administrator
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 17, 2013 12:07:14 GMT -5
* Quote removed as what was quoted has been deleted. - mmhmm, Administrator
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 12:09:27 GMT -5
Of course race played a part, especially in the lack of investigation which led to Zimmerman's acquittal. People are protesting not just the verdict but the pattern of behavior indicated by it.
One of the jurors lives on planet Paula Deen where there are still colored folks.
Apparently racism is only real if you call someone the n-word or benefit from affirmative action.
I'm going to give black people the benefit of the doubt and assume they know more about their own experience than I do.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 17, 2013 12:23:56 GMT -5
One of the jurors lives on planet Paula Deen where there are still colored folks.
I was thinking the other day she must be breathing a sigh of relief right now. My sense of humor is really warped.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 17, 2013 12:44:18 GMT -5
Of course race played a part, especially in the lack of investigation which led to Zimmerman's acquittal. People are protesting not just the verdict but the pattern of behavior indicated by it. One of the jurors lives on planet Paula Deen where there are still colored folks. Apparently racism is only real if you call someone the n-word or benefit from affirmative action. I'm going to give black people the benefit of the doubt and assume they know more about their own experience than I do. And I'm going to give white people the benefit of the doubt and not assume that every god damn stupid thing that someone does is race related.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 12:51:22 GMT -5
But this case was definitely race related. Zimmerman, as the neighborhood watch captain, was on the lookout for young black men because one or two of them had been seen robbing houses in the neighborhood. He followed Trayvon specifically because he was young and black. He tells the 911 dispatcher that the suspect is black. IT'S IN THE FUCKING RECORDING.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Jul 17, 2013 12:51:47 GMT -5
And I'm going to give white people the benefit of the doubt and not assume that every god damn stupid thing that someone does is race related.
A child died I would not call that "god damn stupid" concerning race.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 17, 2013 12:53:43 GMT -5
<br><div class="quote no_header"><div class="quote_body">I'm going to give black people the benefit of the doubt and assume they know more about their own experience than I do.</div></div>You know at one point I would have agreed with that. Being with my DH for 13 years, we have had many, many discussions about race. I have also had discussions with his family members about our experiences. I remember one discussion with a cousin about a new restaurant that just opened up. She had gone in there and the people were rude to her, just bad attitude about when taking the order, just kind of whatever, hurry up, go away. She assumed it was because she was black. Except, I had the same story about when I went in there, after discussing it we decided they were just rude and had bad customer service, food was good but they still closed a little while later. There are other discussion where race has very much been an issue and I didn't see at first. I very much believe Pinks story about going to Lowes happened, and was about race and negative stereotypes. <br><br>Our perceptions and past experiences do color how we see our current events and how we judge them. I do see a danger in every time someone who is black says something is race issue, saying, "Oh yes you are right it must be" and take it as truth. I do see a danger in every time someone who is black says something is a race issue, saying, "Oh you are just saying that because you are black", and discount it. There needs to be more open discussion on race and why people see things as issues/non issues. <br><br>Someone ask what has out generations done. I think it was Tina. I wasn't sure how to put together my thoughts on that question. I think our generation still avoid talking about our current perceptions, we want to say it is a thing of the past, we want to think we are better than our ancestors, that we are accepting. I don't think we want to acknowledge that fear still exist, and one thing that that this case should show everyone, is the fear of the past still exist in black community and a mistrust. Shutting down conversations because they are uncomfortable or because we don't think it is needed, not acknowledging that fear, isn't going to resolve it. Figuring out what singles, actions, causes that fear and mistrust is one step. And I think the black community needs to work on letting go of that fear and mistrust too. Overall I think we do need to agree that race is an issue at times, but not always, and all communities need to look at situations as objectively as possible and really decide if race played a part or not. Discuss why or why not it is, and listen to the other point of view. Not let race be the easy go to, and not dismiss it out of hand.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 17, 2013 12:58:58 GMT -5
So is it okay to use physical descriptions when looking for suspects? My answer is yes. For me this would have been a race issue if the suspects were young White/Asian/Indian/whatever, and GZ still focused on TM. But following someone who fits a suspect description because, they fit the description seems common sense to me.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 13:05:45 GMT -5
Of course it's common sense, but to say that this issue isn't race related is asinine. Zimmerman admitted that the only reason he was suspicious of Trayvon was because he was young and black.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 17, 2013 13:20:08 GMT -5
Of course it's common sense, but to say that this issue isn't race related is asinine. Zimmerman admitted that the only reason he was suspicious of Trayvon was because he was young and black. And because he was on drugs according to the 911 call. Yep, someone walking down the street carrying an ice tea equals drug addict up to no good
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 13:31:16 GMT -5
But this case was definitely race related. Zimmerman, as the neighborhood watch captain, was on the lookout for young black men because one or two of them had been seen robbing houses in the neighborhood. He followed Trayvon specifically because he was young and black. He tells the 911 dispatcher that the suspect is black. IT'S IN THE FUCKING RECORDING. only after she asks him for a description he never mentioned race before the question or are you referring to the EDITED nbc version for which a lawsuit is pending?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 17, 2013 13:41:32 GMT -5
But this case was definitely race related. Zimmerman, as the neighborhood watch captain, was on the lookout for young black men because one or two of them had been seen robbing houses in the neighborhood. He followed Trayvon specifically because he was young and black. He tells the 911 dispatcher that the suspect is black. IT'S IN THE FUCKING RECORDING. Telling someone a suspect is black does not make it about race. It is documented that eye witnesses saw black kids break in (or attempt) 3 different houses. That is as stupid as our local paper no longer giving descriptions that include race to prevent being racist. It is crazy how the paper will no longer say "black male, mid 20's held the woman at gunpoint. He is considered armed and dangerous". Now they report that a male in his 20's....maybe we should skip the sex part too so we are t considered sexist....
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 17, 2013 13:43:12 GMT -5
skip age too, we don't want to be ageist.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 17, 2013 13:43:16 GMT -5
Well, there was a lawsuit many years ago about how black people were supposedly treated by Denny's. of course everyone that wasn't black knew Denny's just gives piss poor service, period. It had nothing to do with color and everything to do with a lack of good service for anyone on Denny's part but you'll never hear that come out. So Denny's still is assumed to be racist whereas they just are a carp restaurant with crap service no matter what color you are.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 17, 2013 13:43:17 GMT -5
So is it okay to use physical descriptions when looking for suspects? My answer is yes. For me this would have been a race issue if the suspects were young White/Asian/Indian/whatever, and GZ still focused on TM. But following someone who fits a suspect description because, they fit the description seems common sense to me. It would be on if the kid were white....we are way too fucking over the top with the race issue. Now giving pertinent descriptions makes someone racist...give me a break
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 13:44:20 GMT -5
Yes, which is why Zimmerman was looking for black kids. Hence following Trayvon who is both black and a kid. Which means he was followed because of his race and age. Which is why you'd have to be a total moron to say this case wasn't about race at least a little bit.
That doesn't mean that Zimmerman is a racist. It means that this case involved race, that's it.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 17, 2013 13:45:23 GMT -5
"We're looking for a male or female suspect between the ages of 8 and 80, 3 to 8 feet tall and somewhere between albino and dark complected. Keep your eyes peeled"
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 17, 2013 13:55:31 GMT -5
With or without hair, may have blue, green, brown, hazel, grey, violet, or another color of eyes.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 17, 2013 14:11:12 GMT -5
Yes, which is why Zimmerman was looking for black kids. Hence following Trayvon who is both black and a kid. Which means he was followed because of his race and age. Which is why you'd have to be a total moron to say this case wasn't about race at least a little bit. That doesn't mean that Zimmerman is a racist. It means that this case involved race, that's it. So if the suspects were white and he followed a white kid it would be about race? This entire argument is ridiculous....if this kid were white no one would give a shit. But because this kid happened to be black, the entire fucking nation (at least the liberal) are up in arms about it. Here's a thought....you allow want to ease race relations, stop making everything about race. The fact that a description was of a black kid does not make this a out race. If a woman is raped and she says her rapist was a black man....road blocks are set up to find the suspect who happens to be black....is that about race? You people are over the top. Racism exists...I've heard from posters that I respect on here that have give. First hand accounts of it. But that doesn't mean that every situation is about race.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 17, 2013 14:12:06 GMT -5
"We're looking for a male or female suspect between the ages of 8 and 80, 3 to 8 feet tall and somewhere between albino and dark complected. Keep your eyes peeled" Eyes peeled? Are you prejudiced against the blind???
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 14:15:55 GMT -5
Give that girl a cookie she finally figured it out.
Yes, if you're told to be on the lookout for a white kid so you start following all white kids you see you're racially profiling. That doesn't make profiling a bad thing. Law enforcement does it all the time. It's a viable and valuable law enforcement tool. Zimmerman had good reason to be looking for black kids, well specifically it was young black men I believe, but that does mean that race was involved in the incident since race was one third of the profile he was given.
If the profile was young white men, race would be involved in profiling based on the three criteria; young, white, and a dude.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 17, 2013 14:17:46 GMT -5
Are you fucking crazy? The headline the next day would have been Hispanic man ignores 911 dispatcher, follows and kills white teen. Guarantee he would have been arrested at the scene and it wouldn't have taken national outcry for the local cops to charge him with something.
Since he killed a black kid they didn't even call him Hispanic, they called him white, and he was sent home after giving a statement.
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