whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 16, 2013 16:37:54 GMT -5
Where did juror B37 say that? "Boy of color" was stated verbally (in the Anderson interview). "Know your place" was heavily implied ("It was unfortunate he was there at that time"). Dear lord I hope you are joking..... Bc otherwise when I tell my 2 yr old that "it was unfortunate he was in the family room while his brother was riding his car" it SURELY means I want him killed or something..
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 16, 2013 16:41:21 GMT -5
Hyperbole's rock!
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 16, 2013 16:42:17 GMT -5
www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-911-call-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/After listening to this 911 call does anyone seriously think that GZ didn't continue to follow TM after the dispatcher told him not do so. Hell, at the end of the call he tells the dispatcher to have the police call him because he doesn't want to meet them at his house or any other specific location. For those who keep saying TM should run - He DID run!! Sorry, I don't buy GZ's story one bit - well, maybe 1/2 of it...
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 16, 2013 16:43:33 GMT -5
Dear lord I hope you are joking..... Bc otherwise when I tell my 2 yr old that "it was unfortunate he was in the family room while his brother was riding his car" it SURELY means I want him killed or something.. It means you descriminate against toddlers! Shame on you! I don't know..... my toddler is not black....can you really discriminate against someone who is not black ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 16:45:23 GMT -5
Even if you had every right to be there? Even if the person following you was a female your size? Even if you were close to home?Because apparently as soon Martin hit back he deserved to die, he should run because he's a kid but if he ran he would have looked like a criminal, he's intimidating because he's a tall adult, etc. Apparently the only acceptable response was to stand still and let Zimmerman do whatever he wanted. Yes, yes and yes. People are CRAZY, people are psychotic and people have GUNS. I had a scar on my right hand from a girl who went coo-coo on me bc I was dating a guy she liked. We were 12 or 13 - can we say crazy ?? If I am being followed by a stranger, male, female, twice my size, half my size, black, white, nun - I don't care - I am running first (while probably peeing my pants), calling 911 second and asking questions later. Did you miss the part he told the dispatcher he was running away? And Zimmerman chased after him? But I get it; it's his fault. He should have run faster. Understood.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 16, 2013 16:45:27 GMT -5
Not exactly. I'm saying the concept of self respect and face can very important to some people. So important they will do stupid things including killing or harming others to preserve it. Just because TM wasn't you or wasn't me doesn't mean IMHO that he should have been required to do something wussy in hopes of preserving his life. That shouldn't be necessary nor expected.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 16, 2013 16:46:54 GMT -5
Well you could go back and say who ever was doing the break ins started the whole chain, since that is the reason the neighborhood watch was created. Without the break ins none of this would have happen either. And just for the record, no I don't think Zimmerman should have been carrying a gun since it went against the neighborhood watch rules. And I do think his actions certainly was a part of that chain of events, and if he had changed any of his choices we would have had a differnt out come, so yes I do think he is responsible for the death. But just because someone is responsible for a death does not make it murder, or a crime. And I agree GZ is an idiot. The police apprehended and arrested the person responsible for, at least, some of the break-ins. Zimmerman knew this. Now, whether he thought there might be others who were burglarizing the neighborhood, I don't know; however, he knew one he'd seen had been arrested.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 16, 2013 17:00:23 GMT -5
"Boy of color" was stated verbally (in Anderson interview). "Know your place" was heavily implied ("It was unfortunate he was there at that time").Wow... That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? "It was unfortunate he was there at that time" could also mean, it was unfortunate he was out the same night that GZ was on patrol for neighborhood watch carrying a concealed weapon. But by all means... shove words down people's throats. Why is it "unfortunate" that a young black man is walking down the street on his way to buy snacks? Oh wait - never mind. We've already found out the answer to that question
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 17:07:01 GMT -5
Based on the link/soundtrack: - Martin saw Zimmerman looking/following him (he is checking me out/looking at me now) -Zimmerman tells the dispatcher he is running - Zimmerman gets out of his car and start following him (you can hear the beep in the car when he opens the door and the noise due to the air/him walking). So Martin walks away or run like some of you said he should have done and yet He kept on chasing him. So if you are running from a guy you believe to be a creep in a car, he start running after you and get close /catch up; He should have stopped and had a nice/civil conversation with him? Zimmerman made up his mind about Martin before he called the cops. He was a someone that looked suspicious, up to no good and those assholes always get away with it. But darn it: Martin deserved everything he got and then some.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 16, 2013 17:31:21 GMT -5
Even if you had every right to be there? Even if the person following you was a female your size? Even if you were close to home? Because apparently as soon Martin hit back he deserved to die, he should run because he's a kid but if he ran he would have looked like a criminal, he's intimidating because he's a tall adult, etc. Apparently the only acceptable response was to stand still and let Zimmerman do whatever he wanted. I have every right to walk anywhere I want. But I would have to be a fucking moron to keep walking if some line was following me. The fact that it was a white woman flowing me a d not a ghetto thug wouldn't make me any less afraid. There are crazy asses out there and they come in all races, sex and ethnicity. How many of you would tell a group of women in a self-defense to say "fuck you, I have every right to be here" when being followed? That is just asinine advice
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 16, 2013 17:40:31 GMT -5
I don't know..... my toddler is not black....can you really discriminate against someone who is not black ? That's a good question... I think "still wears diapers" puts them in a protected class though... so be careful! For the record, I have 2 in diapers, and there was a time when I had 3 in diapers - I, myself, should be in some kind of protected class
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 16, 2013 17:40:46 GMT -5
While I don't think its about race, I'm also a white woman with no experience of being discriminated against because of my race. Found a link with Jeantel in a video and I think she makes a decent point. 5 white jurors and one hispanic are probably not the best judges of whether components of raceism were in play. I'm with Cawiau on this in that I think TM didn't have many options. If you look at an aerial view of the complex its pretty obvious that the only options to stalk some one via vehicle puts you pretty close to them as most sidewalks are close to the road in contrast to close to the homes. Remember too that at 7PM at night in February headlights are going to be used while GZ is driving the truck. Check out this URL which has a comment from juror B37 and a short video with Jeantel on CNN. www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/16/Rachel-Jeantel-witness-in-Zimmerman-trial-says-verdict-was-B-S/5161373986145/?rel=9561374002212I watched one video snippet of juror B37 with Andersen Cooper. My guess is she was part of the acquit him from the start pool of jurors. I think the defense strategy worked. It sounds like she and possibly all of them ended up being more concerned about what would happen to George now instead of justice or Trayvon. Trayvon is dead so not that important to the mothers because they can't help him. GZ on the other hand...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 17:44:33 GMT -5
People still going on and on like this was about race...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 16, 2013 17:45:49 GMT -5
Still there are posters trying to make it about race just like some people out there. OJ got off because of his race, no more, no less, but that's okay because he was a "brother?" Thank GOD stupid Zimmerman was Hispanic so the race card couldn't be used against him, although it certainly was tried. I don't think OJ got off because of his race, zib. I think OJ got off because of his sports fame and his wealth.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 17:46:57 GMT -5
Even if you had every right to be there? Even if the person following you was a female your size? Even if you were close to home? Because apparently as soon Martin hit back he deserved to die, he should run because he's a kid but if he ran he would have looked like a criminal, he's intimidating because he's a tall adult, etc. Apparently the only acceptable response was to stand still and let Zimmerman do whatever he wanted. I have every right to walk anywhere I want. But I would have to be a fucking moron to keep walking if some line was following me. The fact that it was a white woman flowing me a d not a ghetto thug wouldn't make me any less afraid. There are crazy asses out there and they come in all races, sex and ethnicity. How many of you would tell a group of women in a self-defense to say "fuck you, I have every right to be here" when being followed? That is just asinine advice But he did run which is exactly what we would have told a woman. And you know what else: we would have told a woman to kick/scream and do whatever they could if the assailant caught up to them. Guess what Martin did when Zimmerman caught up with him? But since he happened to be stronger, got a good punch in... He totally deserved to get shot. I am learning a lot tonight! Thanks for the lessons!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 16, 2013 18:52:38 GMT -5
I have every right to walk anywhere I want. But I would have to be a fucking moron to keep walking if some line was following me. The fact that it was a white woman flowing me a d not a ghetto thug wouldn't make me any less afraid. There are crazy asses out there and they come in all races, sex and ethnicity. How many of you would tell a group of women in a self-defense to say "fuck you, I have every right to be here" when being followed? That is just asinine advice But he did run which is exactly what we would have told a woman. And you know what else: we would have told a woman to kick/scream and do whatever they could if the assailant caught up to them. Guess what Martin did when Zimmerman caught up with him? But since he happened to be stronger, got a good punch in... He totally deserved to get shot. I am learning a lot tonight! Thanks for the lessons! If you read the testimony from janteal, he did not run. She said, "run" and he told her that he was almost home. Then she heard him say "why are you following me".... That is why I say he made a wrong move. He let his teenage cockiness get in the way of getting the hell out of there. Not a smart move since you never know who is carrying a gun and he isn't. I never said he deserved to get shot. I do think he made a poor decision and it cost him his life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 19:04:59 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 16, 2013 19:26:31 GMT -5
I believe he ran for awhile and decided he didn't want to run all the way back. He did just walk out to a convenience store and back. He could have been tired. (FWIW, GZ's phone call to the dispatcher says he was running at one time.)
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 16, 2013 19:40:57 GMT -5
The verdict is in and the trial (at least the criminal trial) is over.
I would imagine Florida and other state legislatures are going to look at their existing laws and tighten up/clarify their existing laws to ensure nothing like this case ever happens again.
Hopefully police departments will also review and tighten up (if necessary) their own investigative procedures (if allowed by their state), including administering drug and alcohol testing of the person who delivered the fatal blow regardless of whether the police believe or not the fatal blow was in self-defense.
Neighborhoods with Neighborhood Watch programs should review and reiterate the guidelines of the Neighborhood Watch program to the participants, including emphasizing not following suspicious people in their neighborhoods and hopefully not carrying guns while out on 'patrol'.
While there is no law which states you cannot carry a gun while on NW patrol (where guns can legally be carried), this incident could have turned out much differently for GZ had he tangled with someone much bigger, stronger and older with far more life and street experience than he.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 20:24:27 GMT -5
I have every right to walk anywhere I want. But I would have to be a fucking moron to keep walking if some line was following me. The fact that it was a white woman flowing me a d not a ghetto thug wouldn't make me any less afraid. There are crazy asses out there and they come in all races, sex and ethnicity. How many of you would tell a group of women in a self-defense to say "fuck you, I have every right to be here" when being followed? That is just asinine advice But he did run which is exactly what we would have told a woman. And you know what else: we would have told a woman to kick/scream and do whatever they could if the assailant caught up to them. Guess what Martin did when Zimmerman caught up with him? But since he happened to be stronger, got a good punch in... He totally deserved to get shot. I am learning a lot tonight! Thanks for the lessons! So Carl, you think TM was completely faultless in all of this? What if he threw the first punch? What if he was the aggressor? We don't know for sure what happened because we only have one side of the story. Which the evidence seems to support. So, your default assumption is that the guy chasing him was the aggressor and even if he says he's not, he's lying. I would bet money that if the races were reversed, you would be on anyone's case who said the same. (A person would be racist if they made the assumption that a black person is lying, right?) You're ready to put this guy in jail for a long time without clear evidence that he was the aggressor? Would you want someone to put you in jail without clear evidence?
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Jul 16, 2013 20:40:31 GMT -5
Martin payed the ultimate price which many have no problem with, but god forbid zimmerman pays even a small price. The peple who do not agree with you, you call race baiters or are racist against white people....."you people" are f-ing crazy. I agree with other this too maddening to discuss or read. Have fun in here.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 16, 2013 21:44:56 GMT -5
But he did run which is exactly what we would have told a woman. And you know what else: we would have told a woman to kick/scream and do whatever they could if the assailant caught up to them. Guess what Martin did when Zimmerman caught up with him? But since he happened to be stronger, got a good punch in... He totally deserved to get shot. I am learning a lot tonight! Thanks for the lessons! So Carl, you think TM was completely faultless in all of this? What if he threw the first punch? What if he was the aggressor? We don't know for sure what happened because we only have one side of the story. Which the evidence seems to support. So, your default assumption is that the guy chasing him was the aggressor and even if he says he's not, he's lying. I would bet money that if the races were reversed, you would be on anyone's case who said the same. (A person would be racist if they made the assumption that a black person is lying, right?) You're ready to put this guy in jail for a long time without clear evidence that he was the aggressor? Would you want someone to put you in jail without clear evidence? I'm not Carl, but I would like you to get really really clear what little the evidence really does show. The real evidence appears to show George took the brunt of damage in a fight before he shot the kid dead with one bullet. Because of eyewitness testimony from people peeking out there windows into a dark February night we think we know who was on top and who was on the bottom just before the fatal shot. Now I may have missed something, but we have nothing but hearsay evidence from the guy who survived the encounter concerning anything prior to witnesses peaking out their windows because they heard grunting sounds that some witnesses characterized as dounding like dogs or animals. ...... In other words, very little hard evidence. I'm a white woman. I go by logic and beliveability. If GZ had been black, brown, green-spotted. liver-spotted, or female I'd still think the story was full of holes. The liver-spotted person I might give more of a pass to, only because they might have dementia or Alzheimer's but for me it was the unbelieveable testimony with dialogue, etc. that drew me in. FWIW, I don't think Trayvon is completely faultless, however, given GZ had a gun and was pursuing he had no clear obvious options that guaranteed he made it home. IMO Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. All of it depended on GZ and how he would react. He could have called 911, bluffed, etc. but the bottom line is a guy who had stalked him for four minutes as he walked through the complex as we now know was wearing a gun and wasn't shy about trailing the guy by vehicle or on foot. Bit of a stretch for me to believe someone who confronts me in the dark in a non public place is someone who intends only good for me.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 16, 2013 21:56:03 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with guns and holsters, but it seems to me if you got the safety off GZ's IWB gun, all you'd need to do is point down and fire. The person is probably going to stay down even if it isn't a kill shot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 7:14:22 GMT -5
I'm not Carl, but I would like you to get really really clear what little the evidence really does show. The real evidence appears to show George took the brunt of damage in a fight before he shot the kid dead with one bullet. Because of eyewitness testimony from people peeking out there windows into a dark February night we think we know who was on top and who was on the bottom just before the fatal shot. Now I may have missed something, but we have nothing but hearsay evidence from the guy who survived the encounter concerning anything prior to witnesses peaking out their windows because they heard grunting sounds that some witnesses characterized as dounding like dogs or animals. ...... In other words, very little hard evidence. I'm a white woman. I go by logic and beliveability. If GZ had been black, brown, green-spotted. liver-spotted, or female I'd still think the story was full of holes. The liver-spotted person I might give more of a pass to, only because they might have dementia or Alzheimer's but for me it was the unbelieveable testimony with dialogue, etc. that drew me in. FWIW, I don't think Trayvon is completely faultless, however, given GZ had a gun and was pursuing he had no clear obvious options that guaranteed he made it home. IMO Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. All of it depended on GZ and how he would react. He could have called 911, bluffed, etc. but the bottom line is a guy who had stalked him for four minutes as he walked through the complex as we now know was wearing a gun and wasn't shy about trailing the guy by vehicle or on foot. Bit of a stretch for me to believe someone who confronts me in the dark in a non public place is someone who intends only good for me. You're making my point for me....(perhaps I didn't make it well)...there is little hard evidence. While GZs story may not be 100% accurate, I don't believe there was any testimony and/or evidence that conclusively showed he was not being truthful. And I have a problem just assuming that the guy is lying because you can't prove conclusively that he's NOT lying. I would rather let a criminal go free than convict someone and sentence them to 10+ years based on feeling that his story had holes but you can't prove it. If you can't prove it, wait until you CAN prove it to take it to court or don't take it at all.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Jul 17, 2013 8:03:04 GMT -5
So basically if I understand correctly: it is Martin's fault he got shot and he deserved what he got. Lesson learned! it only took you 24 pages to learn that??
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 8:23:56 GMT -5
Based on the link/soundtrack: - Martin saw Zimmerman looking/following him (he is checking me out/looking at me now) -Zimmerman tells the dispatcher he is running - Zimmerman gets out of his car and start following him (you can hear the beep in the car when he opens the door and the noise due to the air/him walking). So Martin walks away or run like some of you said he should have done and yet He kept on chasing him. So if you are running from a guy you believe to be a creep in a car, he start running after you and get close /catch up; He should have stopped and had a nice/civil conversation with him? Zimmerman made up his mind about Martin before he called the cops. He was a someone that looked suspicious, up to no good and those assholes always get away with it. But darn it: Martin deserved everything he got and then some. yeah...so an out of shape GZ can run down a 17yr old in shape kid who has a lead on him
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 8:28:07 GMT -5
But he did run which is exactly what we would have told a woman. And you know what else: we would have told a woman to kick/scream and do whatever they could if the assailant caught up to them. Guess what Martin did when Zimmerman caught up with him? But since he happened to be stronger, got a good punch in... He totally deserved to get shot. I am learning a lot tonight! Thanks for the lessons! If you read the testimony from janteal, he did not run. She said, "run" and he told her that he was almost home. Then she heard him say "why are you following me".... That is why I say he made a wrong move. He let his teenage cockiness get in the way of getting the hell out of there. Not a smart move since you never know who is carrying a gun and he isn't. I never said he deserved to get shot. I do think he made a poor decision and it cost him his life. exactly....he started to run...and then stopped he WANTED to confront GZ he easily could have made it home...he decided that was not wanted to do....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 8:29:12 GMT -5
Based on the link/soundtrack: - Martin saw Zimmerman looking/following him (he is checking me out/looking at me now) -Zimmerman tells the dispatcher he is running - Zimmerman gets out of his car and start following him (you can hear the beep in the car when he opens the door and the noise due to the air/him walking). So Martin walks away or run like some of you said he should have done and yet He kept on chasing him. So if you are running from a guy you believe to be a creep in a car, he start running after you and get close /catch up; He should have stopped and had a nice/civil conversation with him? Zimmerman made up his mind about Martin before he called the cops. He was a someone that looked suspicious, up to no good and those assholes always get away with it. But darn it: Martin deserved everything he got and then some. yeah...so an out of shape GZ can run down a 17yr old in shape kid who has a lead on him Hahahaha!!! Zimmerman gained at least 100 lbs from the night of the incident to the trial. He was not out of shape that night, but hey if that makes you feel better stick with that story!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 8:30:57 GMT -5
Martin payed the ultimate price which many have no problem with, but god forbid zimmerman pays even a small price. The peple who do not agree with you, you call race baiters or are racist against white people....."you people" are f-ing crazy. I agree with other this too maddening to discuss or read. Have fun in here. his life is FOREVER changed.....that isnt "paying" a price? or is putting an innocent but stupid man in jail your idea of justice?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 8:34:00 GMT -5
yeah...so an out of shape GZ can run down a 17yr old in shape kid who has a lead on him Hahahaha!!! Zimmerman gained at least 100 lbs from the night of the incident to the trial. He was not out of shape that night, but hey if that makes you feel better stick with that story! did you listen to the testimony from his trainer? he was COMPLETELY out of shape that is why he had joined the MMA class....to try and get INTO shape
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