raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 14, 2013 13:27:10 GMT -5
And that was this year! I have to say it would never occur to me to not go somewhere because I have the stroller with me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 13:51:50 GMT -5
And that was this year! I have to say it would never occur to me to not go somewhere because I have the stroller with me. LOL. Me neither, because I'm not a thief. Like I said, I have lots of stories from childhood to present day. That's just how it is. And it's very irritating when people from other parts of the country or people that that never venture outside their comfort zone or open their eyes try to tell me that it doesn't exist. I'm not one to go looking for trouble, and I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I don't pretend that there are no racial issues anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 14:02:16 GMT -5
We used to have shoplifters come in with their strollers and swipe entire tables, put in the basket, and walk out and then sell them at the local flea markets.
I've been called a n ----- whore for walking with a black male friend.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 14:03:30 GMT -5
Appearance and attitude are huge. If you don't want to get judged as a gangbanger, don't dress and act like one. The business manager at my old firm was black. She raised two terrific boys and she told me that from the time they were little that if they ever tried to act ghetto or like gangbabgers, she would smack the black off them. If I saw either of he two sons in my neighborhood I wouldn't blink. Dress like a gangbanger and it is going to cause suspicion and scare people. It isn't the color of the skin, it is the clothes and attitude So, I wonder what it was a couple weeks ago when my daughter and I went in Ann Taylors in a wealthier part of my area. We were dressed like everybody else that was out, except I have a nose ring and DD's hair is natural (kinky). We were COMPLETELY ignored, while everybody that came through the door after us got a greeting at least and most were also asked if they needed some help. My daughter told me she was uncomfortable, which made me refuse to walk right back out. We were in there browsing for at least 20 minutes and none of the sales people said a word to us. We were the only black women in the store. Of course, I can't say for sure what the problem was. It certainly wasn't that they were all too busy helping other customers. Ann Taylor isn't so posh that I looked like I couldn't possibly afford the clothes. I went a few doors down and with the help of a great saleswoman, spent several hundred dollars. Which reminds me, DD was standing outside the dressing room with the baby in his stroller while I tried on some clothes. The saleswoman told her she could go in with me and sit down if she wanted to. She said "I know some people judge and would have a problem with it because of the stroller, but I'm not like that". She was white. It's not a well-kept secret. I have no idea what the reason was since I wasn't there. I can see how your experiences can shape your views. That said, I've been ignored in stores a d I never gave it a second thought. Maybe my white trash shines through :-p
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 14:05:08 GMT -5
We used to have shoplifters come in with their strollers and swipe entire tables, put in the basket, and walk out and then sell them at the local flea markets. I've been called a n ----- whore for walking with a black male friend. A friend of mine worked for a store and someone stole a stroller, loaded it up and walked out...talk about a brass set!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 14:10:19 GMT -5
Not all of those are facts. We have Zimmerman's word that TM attacked him first. If Zimmerman shoved or grabbed him first it wasn't assault it was self defense. Anyone who is chased down at night by some creep has the right to defend themselves if said creep gets physical.
I'm also wondering if anyone else on this thread has ever been mugged? If some stranger chases me down at night he's getting an ass kicking if he gets close enough to touch me. I'm not going to stand there and get mugged again because some crazy ass cop wannabe thinks volunteering for the neighborhood watch gives him the right to chase and attempt to detain people who are walking down the street drinking a fucking iced tea.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 14:12:14 GMT -5
Oh, and the don't bring a knife to a gun fight comments are disgusting. He wasn't going to a fight. He was a teenager who walked to the store to buy candy and tea. The only reason any fight whatsoever happened is because a racist asshole didn't like seeing a black kid walking in his neighborhood.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 14:30:12 GMT -5
And when they say that they need reparations to give them a hand out of systemic poverty, do you pay for the sins of "your grandfather"?
Think it through to the end game. This is important. Everyone sits down, acknowledges the past, agrees there is still racism today, and then what?? Problem solved? No, then reparations will come up. That is the end game.
O.M.G. Reparations? Are you serious? I know a lot of black people and I've had a lot of conversations about race. I have NEVER heard anybody say anything about reparations. Maybe talking (and listening) to everyday black folks would counter the things that some people believe speak for all black people. Reparations is the dumbest idea that I have ever heard of. Having said that if there are going to be reparations then everyone but Indians need to start by getting on boats.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 14:45:49 GMT -5
What about those of us who are part Indian? Can I stay like part of the year, timeshare style? Would I have to pay myself partial reparations?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 14:54:39 GMT -5
Just to be clear, it's not any comfort thinking that a 17yo white guy walking through an upscale neighborhood could be considered suspicious and suffer the same fate as Trayvon.
We don't know exactly who the "them" was that Zimmerman was sick of and how Trayvon fit into the "them" or what exactly Zimmerman muttered that some people thought to be a racial slur. Or maybe all that got clarified, because I stopped following it a long time ago.
Of course I have a problem with it if part of why Trayvon appeared suspicious was because he was black. But even if it wasn't, I'm not ok with saying some strange man can dog a persons footsteps, confront them, then kill him because that person doesn't respond meekly and not be held responsible because they say the other person beat him up. IMO, Zimmerman was the agressor the second he stepped out of his vehicle. He'd already called the police. Trayvon didn't owe him any answers about who he was and why he was in that neighborhood. Zimmerman wasn't some authority figure. He was a nobody carrying a gun. We can change the genders, change the races, change the clothing or whatever. It's still not ok to me.
I sure hope the bad guys in Florida aren't paying attention.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 15:03:45 GMT -5
Oh, and the don't bring a knife to a gun fight comments are disgusting. He wasn't going to a fight. He was a teenager who walked to the store to buy candy and tea. The only reason any fight whatsoever happened is because a racist asshole didn't like seeing a black kid walking in his neighborhood. I was making a point as to why "children" shouldn't confront someone who is following them. You never know who is carrying a fun. It would be no different if you started to beat in Zimmerman....you don't bring fists to a gunfight because the gun has much better odds of winning. As a woman, I would never confront someone following me. I would call 911, keep them on the phone and scream bloody murder in hopes of people coming out if their houses. Never in a million years would I get all cocky and confront the man like some if you are suggesting you would do.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 15:09:28 GMT -5
Just to be clear, it's not any comfort thinking that a 17yo white guy walking through an upscale neighborhood could be considered suspicious and suffer the same fate as Trayvon. We don't know exactly who the "them" was that Zimmerman was sick of and how Trayvon fit into the "them" or what exactly Zimmerman muttered that some people thought to be a racial slur. Or maybe all that got clarified, because I stopped following it a long time ago. Of course I have a problem with it if part of why Trayvon appeared suspicious was because he was black. But even if it wasn't, I'm not ok with saying some strange man can dog a persons footsteps, confront them, then kill him because that person doesn't respond meekly and not be held responsible because they say the other person beat him up. IMO, Zimmerman was the agressor the second he stepped out of his vehicle. He'd already called the police. Trayvon didn't owe him any answers about who he was and why he was in that neighborhood. Zimmerman wasn't some authority figure. He was a nobody carrying a gun. We can change the genders, change the races, change the clothing or whatever. It's still not ok to me. I sure hope the bad guys in Florida aren't paying attention. I wouldn't want to see any person needlessly shot and killed. As a parent I am trying to teach my child how to be safe. Regardless of whether GZ was racially motivated or not, TM didn't handle things in a safe way. Approaching someone that is following you is crazy. I would seriously kick my daughters ass if she did that
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 15:11:42 GMT -5
Sure, right up until he lays his hands on you. You're telling me that if you were followed by some creep in a car through your own neighborhood, and then the creep gets out and chases you down on foot, until he gets close enough to grab you from behind, you wouldn't fight back. You'd just stand there screaming and hope he wasn't a rapist, mugger, or whatever?
I don't buy it. Any reasonable person will fight if cornered by some creep chasing them down at night who never identifies himself. Fighting is the last option, sure, most people would probably do what Trayvon did and attempt to run away first. If the stranger following you around at night is able to chase you down though, what other option do you have than to try and overpower them? He wasn't yelling freeze police, he wasn't wearing any kind of uniform, he was just some creepy dude following a kid around at night.
I don't know what fairy tale world you live in, but when a stranger follows me around at night for no reason then chases me down I'm going to assume he's after my wallet or something. My first thought sure as hell wouldn't be he's a neighborhood watch captain that doesn't like my hoodie.
That's also why police always identify themselves as early as possible. Especially if they're not in uniform. You don't go chasing after people in plain clothes and expect them to treat you like a cop. They're going to treat you like a crazy ass criminal who's chasing them through the dark and react accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 15:12:20 GMT -5
Oh, and the don't bring a knife to a gun fight comments are disgusting. He wasn't going to a fight. He was a teenager who walked to the store to buy candy and tea. The only reason any fight whatsoever happened is because a racist asshole didn't like seeing a black kid walking in his neighborhood. Racist asshole......Interesting. Zimmerman just might have known all of the people that live in the area. Possibly he thought that I don't know this kid & I'm going to watch him. If your going to assume that race was involved why not assume that had he been buying gummy bears there would have been a totally different outcome. The truth is that assuming it was a racial thing furthers your belief that this is an innocent child that was killed. Assume the worst IF it backs up your ideas. A poor innocent child sitting on someone's chest hitting him & bouncing his head against concrete. Sorry but it doesn't jive.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 15:13:48 GMT -5
Clearly not since Trayvon was staying there with his dad and Zimmerman didn't know him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 15:15:03 GMT -5
It's not about being cocky. Under certain circumstances, I believe that if somebody followed me and I felt threatened I'd try to get them before they got me if I thought I could. Maybe that's another one of our differences, I've never lived in an upscale neighborhood and I'm not use to police appearing in mere seconds. Sometimes you don't have anybody but you.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 15:15:55 GMT -5
Sure, right up until he lays his hands on you. You're telling me that if you were followed by some creep in a car through your own neighborhood, and then the creep gets out and chases you down on foot, until he gets close enough to grab you from behind, you wouldn't fight back. You'd just stand there screaming and hope he wasn't a rapist, mugger, or whatever? I don't buy it. Any reasonable person will fight if cornered by some creep chasing them down at night who never identifies himself. Fighting is the last option, sure, most people would probably do what Trayvon did and attempt to run away first. If the stranger following you around at night is able to chase you down though, what other option do you have than to try and overpower them? He wasn't yelling freeze police, he wasn't wearing any kind of uniform, he was just some creepy dude following a kid around at night. I don't know what fairy tale world you live in, but when a stranger follows me around at night for no reason then chases me down I'm going to assume he's after my wallet or something. My first thought sure as hell wouldn't be he's a neighborhood watch captain that doesn't like my hoodie. That's also why police always identify themselves as early as possible. Especially if they're not in uniform. You don't go chasing after people in plain clothes and expect them to treat you like a cop. They're going to treat you like a crazy ass criminal who's chasing them through the dark and react accordingly. And TM had a cell phone but never called 911...my first reaction would be to call 911, run and scream....he told his friend he was being followed yet no call to 911??
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 14, 2013 15:15:59 GMT -5
Oh, and the don't bring a knife to a gun fight comments are disgusting. He wasn't going to a fight. He was a teenager who walked to the store to buy candy and tea. The only reason any fight whatsoever happened is because a racist asshole didn't like seeing a black kid walking in his neighborhood. I was making a point as to why "children" shouldn't confront someone who is following them. You never know who is carrying a gun.It would be no different if you started to beat in Zimmerman....you don't bring fists to a gunfight because the gun has much better odds of winning. As a woman, I would never confront someone following me. I would call 911, keep them on the phone and scream bloody murder in hopes of people coming out if their houses. Never in a million years would I get all cocky and confront the man like some if you are suggesting you would do. It works both ways though. I guess GZ knew better-he was tough. So he decided to ignore it. I posted this earlier: From the National Sheriff's Association Neighborhood Watch program manual:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 15:18:43 GMT -5
Oh, and the don't bring a knife to a gun fight comments are disgusting. He wasn't going to a fight. He was a teenager who walked to the store to buy candy and tea. The only reason any fight whatsoever happened is because a racist asshole didn't like seeing a black kid walking in his neighborhood. Racist asshole......Interesting. Zimmerman just might have known all of the people that live in the area. Possibly he thought that I don't know this kid & I'm going to watch him. If your going to assume that race was involved why not assume that had he been buying gummy bears there would have been a totally different outcome. The truth is that assuming it was a racial thing furthers your belief that this is an innocent child that was killed. Assume the worst IF it backs up your ideas. A poor innocent child sitting on someone's chest hitting him & bouncing his head against concrete. Sorry but it doesn't jive. I sure wish somebody would tell me what Trayvon was guilty of that night. Kicking Zimmerman's ass after Zimmerman ran him down?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 15:18:44 GMT -5
I was making a point as to why "children" shouldn't confront someone who is following them. You never know who is carrying a gun.It would be no different if you started to beat in Zimmerman....you don't bring fists to a gunfight because the gun has much better odds of winning. As a woman, I would never confront someone following me. I would call 911, keep them on the phone and scream bloody murder in hopes of people coming out if their houses. Never in a million years would I get all cocky and confront the man like some if you are suggesting you would do. It works both ways though. I guess GZ knew better-he was tough. So he decided to ignore it. I posted this earlier: The National Sheriff's Association is in charge of the Neighborhood Watch program across the country. In regards to your comments above, this is from the National Sheriff's Association Neighborhood Watch program manual: That has nothing to do with how TM reacted. I was discussing why a "child" should never confront a person following them. You all keep saying that GZ never identified himself so there was noway for TM to know he was with the neighborhood watch versus some psychi killer.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 15:20:07 GMT -5
So? I'd probably run before I'd call the cops too. He was pretty close to his dad's house, he can probably get there before the police respond anyway.
By the way witnesses did report hearing somebody screaming for help but it's unclear whether it was Trayvon or Zimmerman. Zimmerman says it was him, but then he's the only one alive to tell his side of the story.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 14, 2013 15:22:11 GMT -5
GZ brought a gun to the chase completely ignoring what supposed training he had received. He followed the kid while having no idea if the kid could have had a bigger and badder weapon. That was foolish of GZ.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 15:22:40 GMT -5
And if the person following them chases them down and grabs them they should do what exactly? Stand there and get mugged? Hug the guy and sing Kumbaya? Try to dial 911 and hope they're still alive in 15 minutes when the police show up?
That whole self defense thing works both ways. If you stalk people at night, never identify yourself, then chase them down on foot they have every right to conclude you're a fucking nutball and defend themselves accordingly.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2013 15:22:44 GMT -5
Racist asshole......Interesting. Zimmerman just might have known all of the people that live in the area. Possibly he thought that I don't know this kid & I'm going to watch him. If your going to assume that race was involved why not assume that had he been buying gummy bears there would have been a totally different outcome. The truth is that assuming it was a racial thing furthers your belief that this is an innocent child that was killed. Assume the worst IF it backs up your ideas. A poor innocent child sitting on someone's chest hitting him & bouncing his head against concrete. Sorry but it doesn't jive. I sure wish somebody would tell me what Trayvon was guilty of that night. Kicking Zimmerman's ass after Zimmerman ran him down? He was not guilty of any crime but I do think he used poor judgment in approaching GZ. Maybe I'm a paranoid person but someone is following me and I am going to assume the worst. I'm going to assume the person following me wants to do me harm. I'm from PA where everyone has a gun so I also assume the crazy ass following me has a gun and is going to use it. No way am I confronting the guy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 15:24:43 GMT -5
This just seems like blaming the victim, talking about what Trayvon should have done differently. Blaming the victim isn't right in other kinds of cases, and it isn't right in this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 15:24:58 GMT -5
It works both ways though. I guess GZ knew better-he was tough. So he decided to ignore it. I posted this earlier: The National Sheriff's Association is in charge of the Neighborhood Watch program across the country. In regards to your comments above, this is from the National Sheriff's Association Neighborhood Watch program manual: That has nothing to do with how TM reacted. I was discussing why a "child" should never confront a person following them. You all keep saying that GZ never identified himself so there was noway for TM to know he was with the neighborhood watch versus some psychi killer. He did not confront the guy until he got close to him. He kept on walking towards his dad house, Zimmerman kept on following him in his car then on foot. So the "kid" did not start trouble, he did not go out and looking for trouble, he did not go up to Zimmerman and started a fight. Zimmerman followed him...
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 15:25:17 GMT -5
Great, so you'd do exactly what Trayvon did and try to run home. When he catches up to you before you get there, then what do you do? Close your eyes and hope he disappears?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 15:26:04 GMT -5
Really the only important fact in this whole thing is: Was Martin on top of Zimmerman hitting him? Yes (The witness confirmed that). Did he keep hitting him? (Yes, the witness & evidence confirmed that). To me the shooting was justified. I would have done the same thing if that had happened to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 15:26:36 GMT -5
This just seems like blaming the victim, talking about what Trayvon should have done differently. Blaming the victim isn't right in other kinds of cases, and it isn't right in this one. Exactly It is like telling a rape victim they got Rape because of the way they were dressed so they obviously were asking for it.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 14, 2013 15:27:32 GMT -5
It's not self defense if you started the fight though. You can't pick fights and shoot your way out if the other guy happens to be a better boxer than you. That's not self defense in any state in the country. Except apparently Floriduh now.
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