Criminal or stupid kid?

[thyme4change]

www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129617/teen-jailed-for-facebook-comment-reportedly-beat-up-behind-bars?utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130703

The family of Justin Carter, the 19-year old Texas gamer who made offensive Facebook comments that landed him in jail, is working with new urgency to get his $500,000 bail reduced because they say he's getting beat up while behind bars.

Carter has been in jail since a February arrest. After Justin finished playing the online game League of Legends, where the community trash-talking can get quite toxic, court documents show he posted the following messages on a Facebook page:

"I think Ima shoot up a kindergarten / And watch the blood of the innocent rain down/ And eat the beating heart of one of them."

Carter's father says his son was responding to an insult by being sarcastic, and followed the message with "JK" for just kidding, but that's disputed by police.

In April, a grand jury in Comal County, Texas, indicted Carter on a charge of making a terroristic threat, and a judge set bail at $500,000. The high bail has kept Carter imprisoned while his case moves through the court process.

He faces up to 10 years in prison.

[Tennesseer]

It's Texas. Maybe Perry is looking for execution number 501.

[billisonboard]

It will be interesting to see how far this can go with minimal information.

[Shooby]

It's a bit scary to think anything that you post could be used and blown up completely out of context. I agree that what he posted was wrong and he should have been investigated. But then I wwould think the charges would be dropped or applied based on any real evidence.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 3, 2013 8:53:05 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129617/teen-jailed-for-facebook-comment-reportedly-beat-up-behind-bars?utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130703

The family of Justin Carter, the 19-year old Texas gamer who made offensive Facebook comments that landed him in jail, is working with new urgency to get his $500,000 bail reduced because they say he's getting beat up while behind bars.

Carter has been in jail since a February arrest. After Justin finished playing the online game League of Legends, where the community trash-talking can get quite toxic, court documents show he posted the following messages on a Facebook page:

"I think Ima shoot up a kindergarten / And watch the blood of the innocent rain down/ And eat the beating heart of one of them."

Carter's father says his son was responding to an insult by being sarcastic, and followed the message with "JK" for just kidding, but that's disputed by police.

In April, a grand jury in Comal County, Texas, indicted Carter on a charge of making a terroristic threat, and a judge set bail at $500,000. The high bail has kept Carter imprisoned while his case moves through the court process.

He faces up to 10 years in prison.

Even if he posted this w/o the "JK" - why are we putting people in jail for things they write?  Did he have a specific kindergarten in mind?  Did he take any other actions to carry out this alleged threat?  It's clear what the kid did was felony stupid, but I don't think it rises to the level of terrooristic threat unless he was more specific about which kindergarten, when, and all that.  If the police couldn't find him, would they shut down all the kindergartens within a certain radius?  My guess is that they would not. This is another example of an over-reaction by law enforcement, and more of the guns and mass school shooting mass hysteria.

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2013 9:31:32 GMT -5 Shooby said:

It's a bit scary to think anything that you post could be used and blown up completely out of context. I agree that what he posted was wrong and he should have been investigated. But then I wwould think the charges would be dropped or applied based on any real evidence.

So how would you feel if this was ignored and he did shoot up a kindergarten? I'm not sure how they use the excuse that he played the game. He made the comments on Facebook which is a separate thing. Anyway, I do believe we need to reacte to statements like this and make it clear that it is unacceptable. I also think they should protect him from being beaten up in jail. However, if he was stupid enough to post this on FB I'm guessing he saying some pretty stupid stuff to his cell mates.

[Shooby]

Jul 3, 2013 9:58:55 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Jul 3, 2013 9:31:32 GMT -5 Shooby said:

It's a bit scary to think anything that you post could be used and blown up completely out of context. I agree that what he posted was wrong and he should have been investigated. But then I wwould think the charges would be dropped or applied based on any real evidence.

So how would you feel if this was ignored and he did shoot up a kindergarten? I'm not sure how they use the excuse that he played the game. He made the comments on Facebook which is a separate thing. Anyway, I do believe we need to reacte to statements like this and make it clear that it is unacceptable. I also think they should protect him from being beaten up in jail. However, if he was stupid enough to post this on FB I'm guessing he saying some pretty stupid stuff to his cell mates.

Um, read what i WROTE.  I SAID that of course this SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED and he be charged or the charges dropped BASED on EVIDENCE.  Sheesh.

[mmhmm]

I wonder if the reactions of some to this young man's Facebook entry might have been different had his name been Ahmed Al Mulari, or Da'jonte Jones ...

I'm with later on this one.  In too many cases, those who have targeted crowded areas to release their murderous rage have been found to have given hints of their misanthropy prior to doing so.  Better safe, I'd say, than dealing with multiple dead at the scene of a blood-bath.  If the kid is actually being beaten, lock him up by himself; however, he needs to stay right where he is.  There's a lesson he needs to learn, quite obviously, and it's one he should have learned prior to the age of 19.  It's a little late, but he's still got a chance if he takes this rather stiff lesson to heart.

[Shooby]

  Well, it was stupid.  But the punishment is supposed to fit the crime.  If they investigated and found other evidence of planning a crime, stock piling weapons, engaging in making bombs, etc, then of course that warrants a high bond and putting him in jail.  And, i have no problem with him being investigated and that should be a lesson learned.

[mmhmm]

I'm going to move this to Current Events.  It's really not about politics or the markets. 

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Angel!]

Jul 3, 2013 9:58:55 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Jul 3, 2013 9:31:32 GMT -5 Shooby said:

It's a bit scary to think anything that you post could be used and blown up completely out of context. I agree that what he posted was wrong and he should have been investigated. But then I wwould think the charges would be dropped or applied based on any real evidence.

So how would you feel if this was ignored and he did shoot up a kindergarten? I'm not sure how they use the excuse that he played the game. He made the comments on Facebook which is a separate thing. Anyway, I do believe we need to reacte to statements like this and make it clear that it is unacceptable. I also think they should protect him from being beaten up in jail. However, if he was stupid enough to post this on FB I'm guessing he saying some pretty stupid stuff to his cell mates.

There is the problem - the police do nothing & will get criticized if he follows through.  Police do something & get criticized for over-reacting. 

People need to learn that freedom of speech has limits.  There are a lot of things that you just legally can't say without repercussions. Unfortunately this kid is learning that the hard way. I'm sure he will end up getting a slap on the wrist for the whole thing in the end.

[Angel!]

Jul 3, 2013 11:03:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Well, it was stupid.  But the punishment is supposed to fit the crime.  If they investigated and found other evidence of planning a crime, stock piling weapons, engaging in making bombs, etc, then of course that warrants a high bond and putting him in jail.  And, i have no problem with him being investigated and that should be a lesson learned.

A terrorist threat is a crime in itself regardless if a person intends to follow through. 

[Shooby]

Jul 3, 2013 11:11:17 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Jul 3, 2013 11:03:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Well, it was stupid.  But the punishment is supposed to fit the crime.  If they investigated and found other evidence of planning a crime, stock piling weapons, engaging in making bombs, etc, then of course that warrants a high bond and putting him in jail.  And, i have no problem with him being investigated and that should be a lesson learned.

A terrorist threat is a crime in itself regardless if a person intends to follow through. 

I agree.  Read what i said.  That doesn't necessarily mean 99 years in jail either.

[Shooby]

Jul 3, 2013 11:09:43 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Jul 3, 2013 9:58:55 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

So how would you feel if this was ignored and he did shoot up a kindergarten? I'm not sure how they use the excuse that he played the game. He made the comments on Facebook which is a separate thing. Anyway, I do believe we need to reacte to statements like this and make it clear that it is unacceptable. I also think they should protect him from being beaten up in jail. However, if he was stupid enough to post this on FB I'm guessing he saying some pretty stupid stuff to his cell mates.

There is the problem - the police do nothing & will get criticized if he follows through.  Police do something & get criticized for over-reacting. 

People need to learn that freedom of speech has limits.  There are a lot of things that you just legally can't say without repercussions. Unfortunately this kid is learning that the hard way. I'm sure he will end up getting a slap on the wrist for the whole thing in the end.

Getting beaten in prison isn't exactly a slap on the wrist.

[thyme4change]

Jul 3, 2013 11:11:17 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Jul 3, 2013 11:03:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Well, it was stupid.  But the punishment is supposed to fit the crime.  If they investigated and found other evidence of planning a crime, stock piling weapons, engaging in making bombs, etc, then of course that warrants a high bond and putting him in jail.  And, i have no problem with him being investigated and that should be a lesson learned.

A terrorist threat is a crime in itself regardless if a person intends to follow through. 

What is the definition of terrorist threat?

[mmhmm]

Jul 3, 2013 11:30:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Jul 3, 2013 11:11:17 GMT -5 Angel! said:

A terrorist threat is a crime in itself regardless if a person intends to follow through. 

I agree.  Read what i said.  That doesn't necessarily mean 99 years in jail either.

Where is anything suggested he'll spend 99 years in jail, Shooby?  The kid's in jail on $500,000 bond.  It's probable his parents can't come up with the money to bail his toosh out, so he's in jail awaiting trial.  That's nothing new, and it certainly isn't anywhere near the equivalent of spending 99 years in jail.  Jumping to the absurd doesn't strengthen an argument, IMO.

[Shooby]

Jul 3, 2013 11:40:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jul 3, 2013 11:30:22 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I agree.  Read what i said.  That doesn't necessarily mean 99 years in jail either.

Where is anything suggested he'll spend 99 years in jail, Shooby?  The kid's in jail on $500,000 bond.  It's probable his parents can't come up with the money to bail his toosh out, so he's in jail awaiting trial.  That's nothing new, and it certainly isn't anywhere near the equivalent of spending 99 years in jail.  Jumping to the absurd doesn't strengthen an argument, IMO.

And, neither did i say he should get off scott free. 

[thyme4change]

He's been in jail 5 months.  I hope he gets a trial soon, and they give him "time served."  He will probably come out broken and angry instead of reformed.  We are masters at creating criminals.

[Shooby]

 Criminal and stupid kid are not mutually exclusive.  My neighbors grandson is in jail acting stupid and criminally.

[Angel!]

Jul 3, 2013 11:38:58 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jul 3, 2013 11:11:17 GMT -5 Angel! said:

A terrorist threat is a crime in itself regardless if a person intends to follow through. 

What is the definition of terrorist threat?

I don't know, but I would assume mentioning that you might commit any form of terrorism, domestic or otherwise.  In the wake of Sandy Hook, I would say that shooting up a kindergarten probably counts as a terrorist act. 

[Deleted]

Carter's father says his son's past five months of "suffering quite a bit of abuse" behind bars don't fit the crime. "He says he's really sorry. He just got caught up in the moment of the game and didn't think about the implications," Jack Carter says.

How do you not know what your saying is so awful? If this is common in that game let's get rid of the whole site.

[billisonboard]

The term "terrorism" has become so generalized that it is no longer a useful descriptor.

[Angel!]

Jul 3, 2013 11:31:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Jul 3, 2013 11:09:43 GMT -5 Angel! said:

There is the problem - the police do nothing & will get criticized if he follows through.  Police do something & get criticized for over-reacting. 

People need to learn that freedom of speech has limits.  There are a lot of things that you just legally can't say without repercussions. Unfortunately this kid is learning that the hard way. I'm sure he will end up getting a slap on the wrist for the whole thing in the end.

Getting beaten in prison isn't exactly a slap on the wrist.

Yeah, but when facing a felony that can carry 10 years in prison only doing 4 months in jail is a slap on the wrist. 

Frankly,our judicial system sucks when it comes to dealing with criminals.  People just usually ignore it because they are "criminals" & therefore deserve what they get.  I don't think anyone deserves to get beat up in jail, but I don't think this kid is somehow special or less deserving.  The whole system needs an overhaul, this kid is just one in tens of thousands that got stuck in a sucky system. Don't want this to happen, then fix the system. Don't start a petition to just help one kid, fix the whole damn thing. Because not every kid has a father willing to contact the media so they even find out about the situation - do those kids deserve to be beat up? I mean is the system even fair when whether or not you can get out of jail prior to trial is determined by your wealth?  Doesn't that automatically punish the poor more than the wealthy? Then how well you eat is determined by wealth. Your ability to make phone calls is determined by wealth. The whole damn jail system is designed to give more comfort to those who can afford it.  That isn't really equally punishing criminals.

[mmhmm]

"Without getting into the really nasty details, he's had concussions, black eyes, moved four times from base for his own protection," says Carter's father, Jack. "He's been put in solitary confinement, nude, for days on end because he's depressed. All of this is extremely traumatic to this kid. This is a horrible experience."

The above is from the linked article.  There's nothing in the article to indicate whether these accusations have been investigated; however, I've got to wonder why the kid is being put, nude, into solitary confinement "because he's depressed".  Has he been acting out?  From my point of view, I need more information on this to even start to guess at what's going on.  That said, the kid made a remark nobody should ever make anywhere.  It was stupid, but he's a kid.  Kids do stupid things.  He's getting a very hard lesson, but it shouldn't include beatings.

I'm going to look for more information.

[mmhmm]

Jul 3, 2013 11:42:09 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Jul 3, 2013 11:40:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Where is anything suggested he'll spend 99 years in jail, Shooby?  The kid's in jail on $500,000 bond.  It's probable his parents can't come up with the money to bail his toosh out, so he's in jail awaiting trial.  That's nothing new, and it certainly isn't anywhere near the equivalent of spending 99 years in jail.  Jumping to the absurd doesn't strengthen an argument, IMO.

And, neither did i say he should get off scott free. 

Nor, did I say you did, Shooby.

[thyme4change]

It does seem odd that this kid is being beaten up so badly.  I know everyone gets beat up - but I thought the reserved the very brutal beatings for a certain type of people.  Sounds like this kid isn't able to figure out prison politics.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 3, 2013 12:00:36 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

It does seem odd that this kid is being beaten up so badly.  I know everyone gets beat up - but I thought the reserved the very brutal beatings for a certain type of people.  Sounds like this kid isn't able to figure out prison politics.

If he allegedly threatened to kill kindergartners, that would be one of the things he would get beat up for.  Hurting children.  Many of those in jail were abused and hurt as children.

[Deleted]

thyme he isn't even in prison! He's in jail waiting for trial!

[Angel!]

Jul 3, 2013 12:00:36 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

It does seem odd that this kid is being beaten up so badly.  I know everyone gets beat up - but I thought the reserved the very brutal beatings for a certain type of people.  Sounds like this kid isn't able to figure out prison politics.

My guess is this is a lot of it.  I think they usually lock you up with a similar class of criminal, so he is in with a bunch of felons & probably way out of his league.  And if his ability to censor inappropriate expressions extends not only to FB, but also to what comes out of his mouth, well I could see why he might be getting his ass kicked.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is ok.  But, I don't think it is ok for all the other people that get their ass kicked in jail on a regular basis, but you never see anyone crying for them.

[zdaddy]

Wow, this seems like a ridiculous waste of taxpayer resources unless the guy actually had means and motive to carry out an attack. And having spent a bit of time around gamers, I think it's entirely plausible he said what he said just to get a rise out of people. The game he was playing is well known for lots of trash talking and nastiness.

The police probably needed to do a follow-up, but arresting the guy seems way over-the-top unless there's more to the story.

As far as getting beat up in prison, I see it as a given that a geeky white college kid who probably has a bit of anti-social tendencies is going to get eaten alive.