violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Jul 2, 2013 18:19:23 GMT -5
Doesn't it all come down to stereotypes? People have a mental picture of how an American behaves or a Canadian behaves and before you even open your mouth judgements are made about you. So if stereotypical American is rude, loud and obnoxious and stereotypical Canadian is polite and apologetic - having a Canadian flag on your backpack has already relaxed the person you are meeting and they may be more receptive to you before you even do anything. Is it fair? No. We would all like to be judged based on our own behaviour, but that isn't always what happens.
I've always considered myself just a human - not so much a "Canadian". It seems weird to be proud to be Canadian, when I just happened to be born here. I didn't accomplish anything to be proud of. Why is it necessary to be proud of where I just happen to live?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 2, 2013 18:46:03 GMT -5
And, even though the US is pretty pro Israel? The rest of the world is not. If you hear some of the facts, you may not be anymore. I've found it's not so much the people as the "our media presents it this way so this is the truth" attitude that most Americans have (even subconsciously) that is why people are anti American. Once they realize that I am saying "this is what I've learned but I'm sure I only know one side so I'm backing out of this discussion without saying one side is right and one side is wrong" is when I find that they don't care. My best example of this is a simple question that everyone believes they know the answer to: how many continents are there? for the bold, I can't begin to tell you the arguments I've gotten into......gah! for the rest, absolutely!!!! You...get into a political argument? I can't imagine :-p
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 22:21:56 GMT -5
4k on a flight! Where are you going, with how many and in what class?
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 3, 2013 9:41:42 GMT -5
If I'm going to spend $4k or more on a flight, I'm going to want to spend as much time there as I can. Right now, I'm getting into the groove of planning trips myself, so I'll eventually work my way up to big international trips. One thing is for sure though, I will NOT be pretending to be Canadian (or any other nationality besides American). I will read up on customs and try to learn some basic phrases in the local languages. I will NOT engage in any sort of political discussion. And in general, try to stay low key. I'm not sure where you live, but the easiest way that I traveled when my budget was more limited was to find out what "hub" I was closest to, and then see where that airline flew. Monitor flights to several cities/counties that I wanted to see. Pull the trigger when the price was right. Alternatively, I also built up frequent flyer miles when I traveled for work and tried to stay loyal to a single airline & got their credit card for bonus miles. I'd say I've probably "paid" for less than half my flights over the years. So for instance, I used to live in Houston. Houston used to be a Continental hub (now UAL/Cont). Continental flights to south america were plentiful and frequent. So I monitored flights to Lima, BA, La Paz, etc. When the # of miles was right or the price was right, I bought. I also tried to fly in shoulder seasons so that the prices would be less (both flights and once I got there). SA is also fairly cheap once you get there (unlike Europe) so I wasn't too concerned about the expenses after I arrived.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 3, 2013 9:50:24 GMT -5
$4k on the flight? It'd cost me $7k total to get to Malyasia and stay for three weeks. $5k when I went as part of a school group. I priced it out again because I would like to return someday but WITHOUT 29 other people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 9:56:14 GMT -5
HoneyBBQ, I'm inclined to agree with gardening grandma in that anywhere in the world, including the U.S can be dangerous. Misrepresenting yourself as Canadian is not the same as being "low key" or a "smart traveler." Anyways, it's a shame you have such a low opinion of your own countrymen, being "loud," "dumb," and "rich." If that is truely the case, I don't know how you stand it here. Don't you find it a bit ironic to be complaining about American arrogence then go on to say how everyone else in the country (besides you) is loud, dumb, and rich? Seems to me if you're worried about arrogent Americans, you should start by looking in the mirror. You should get out more and see how many Americans behave in foreign countries. It is embarrassing. They are demanding and rude. Do you know how many times I have heard Americans here complain that the Italian food is disgusting because it doesn't taste like Olive Garden? That is pure ignorance. Do you know how many times I have heard Americans complain that they can't shop during certain hours because Italians are lazy and take a 2 hour lunch? Or how many times I have heard Americans complain that such and such store or restaurant doesn't speak English? It is seriously embarrassing that they think that Italians should be speaking our language instead of us speaking theirs. It isn't just our opinion (mine and HoneyBBQ) that many Americans are loud and rude. It is the opinion of many in other countries as well because of the way American tourist behave in other countries.
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kcladyjane
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Post by kcladyjane on Jul 3, 2013 10:00:14 GMT -5
in 2002 I spent a semester abroad in Australia. All of the students in that program were warned not to "advertise" that we were Americans. This trip was 9 months after September 11th 2001 so I understand why they cautioned us. I could have passed for Canadian while I was in Australia because we were asked multiple times if we were Canadian when people would hear us talking. We always said we were American and people were friendly. That is a great country to visit! They are very welcoming. My dad was soooo worried about that trip since I was traveling to the country of criminals.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 3, 2013 10:00:59 GMT -5
4k on a flight! Where are you going, with how many and in what class? It probably depends on where you live. I am fortunate to live within a hour give or take of 3 huge airports with many nonstop flights to international destinations. Someone that has to take a flight to get to one of those airports will pay more than I would. I went to Jamaica in late May and the flight portion was nearly $600. I imagine if Europe was your intended destination, flights could easy run $2k or higher. While I do agree that some people are rude and give us a bad reputation I think it is also a squeaky wheel problem. You aren't going to notice the Americans who are polite and well behaved.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 3, 2013 10:28:59 GMT -5
It isn't just our opinion (mine and HoneyBBQ) that many Americans are loud and rude. It is the opinion of many in other countries as well because of the way American tourist behave in other countries. One of my H's favorite stories to tell is about when he had gotten off the plane in Toyko and was heading to the immigration line. There were two signs for two queues - "JAPANESE" and "FOREIGNER". A woman stopped him and asked him which line she was supposed to go to because she was AMERICAN and "NOT A FOREIGNER".
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 3, 2013 10:33:14 GMT -5
Do you know how many times I have heard Americans here complain that the Italian food is disgusting because it doesn't taste like Olive Garden
Cracks me up every time you post this. Not tasting like the Olive Garden is a good thing. Our guide did us a favor by taking us to a local laundry mat. Some people had 3-4 bags of laundry (for a week?!) and they were HORRIBLE to her when it came time to pick up our laundry. They expected service like they'd get at Max I Walker here in the states. They were really abusive towards her. My roommate and I went back to the hotel to call one of the professors and tell her to get down there and intervene. That's how nasty people were being. I wouldn't be surprised if she never services a white person again. Great impression these people made of Americans. It's freaking clothing, let it go. If it is that damn precious to you you shouldn't have brought it on this type of trip. For awhile I thought my jeans were lost, no big deal I had another pair. I could either buy more or just wash my current pair in the sink for the rest of the trip. A friend of mine whose been all over the world said my behavior is what separates a traveler from a tourist. Everyone else was behaving like a tourist. Those people more than earned the stereotype of ugly American tourist. You aren't going to notice the Americans who are polite and well behaved.
I disagree. Lots of people I ran into commented on how polite/laid back I was "for an American". But I also freely said I was American. If I had told people I was Canadian or Australian then of course nobody would have stood corrected and realized we're not all a bunch of asshats.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 10:42:33 GMT -5
In college, I was part of a group tour of Southern Italy and Sicily. Our (Italian) tour guide suggested we tell people we were from Texas (which was true), instead of saying we were Americans. Being total geeks, we actually tested it out (with control and experimental groups, of course ). There was a definite difference in the level of service and attention we received.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 3, 2013 10:45:02 GMT -5
I told a group of people what state I was from. Man they put me to shame with their knowledge of my local geography. They were really thrilled to have someone to practice on.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 3, 2013 10:48:30 GMT -5
Do you know how many times I have heard Americans here complain that the Italian food is disgusting because it doesn't taste like Olive Garden
Cracks me up every time you post this. Not tasting like the Olive Garden is a good thing. Our guide did us a favor by taking us to a local laundry mat. Some people had 3-4 bags of laundry (for a week?!) and they were HORRIBLE to her when it came time to pick up our laundry. They expected service like they'd get at Max I Walker here in the states. They were really abusive towards her. My roommate and I went back to the hotel to call one of the professors and tell her to get down there and intervene. That's how nasty people were being. I wouldn't be surprised if she never services a white person again. Great impression these people made of Americans. It's freaking clothing, let it go. If it is that damn precious to you you shouldn't have brought it on this type of trip. For awhile I thought my jeans were lost, no big deal I had another pair. I could either buy more or just wash my current pair in the sink for the rest of the trip. A friend of mine whose been all over the world said my behavior is what separates a traveler from a tourist. Everyone else was behaving like a tourist. Those people more than earned the stereotype of ugly American tourist. You aren't going to notice the Americans who are polite and well behaved.
I disagree. Lots of people I ran into commented on how polite/laid back I was "for an American". But I also freely said I was American. If I had told people I was Canadian or Australian then of course nobody would have stood corrected and realized we're not all a bunch of asshats. I still think the people who behave badly will make an impression on you. If you walk in a shop and someone's being polite with the clerk, you won't pay much attention. If they are being an azzhat you will.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jul 3, 2013 10:48:34 GMT -5
I've never paid more than 1k to fly to Europe, though I have never gone in the summer (March, April, September, December) and while I travel out of an international airport, I have never had a direct flight because we are one of the smaller ones.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 10:50:00 GMT -5
Do you know how many times I have heard Americans here complain that the Italian food is disgusting because it doesn't taste like Olive Garden
Cracks me up every time you post this. Not tasting like the Olive Garden is a good thing. Our guide did us a favor by taking us to a local laundry mat. Some people had 3-4 bags of laundry (for a week?!) and they were HORRIBLE to her when it came time to pick up our laundry. They expected service like they'd get at Max I Walker here in the states. They were really abusive towards her. My roommate and I went back to the hotel to call one of the professors and tell her to get down there and intervene. That's how nasty people were being. I wouldn't be surprised if she never services a white person again. Great impression these people made of Americans. It's freaking clothing, let it go. If it is that damn precious to you you shouldn't have brought it on this type of trip. For awhile I thought my jeans were lost, no big deal I had another pair. I could either buy more or just wash my current pair in the sink for the rest of the trip. A friend of mine whose been all over the world said my behavior is what separates a traveler from a tourist. Everyone else was behaving like a tourist. Those people more than earned the stereotype of ugly American tourist. You aren't going to notice the Americans who are polite and well behaved.
I disagree. Lots of people I ran into commented on how polite/laid back I was "for an American". But I also freely said I was American. If I had told people I was Canadian or Australian then of course nobody would have stood corrected and realized we're not all a bunch of asshats. I have also heard them complain about the pizza...why can't they just find American style pizza here!!! You know, the good stuff like Little Caesar's! I freely tell people that I am American as well. I am proud to be an American. I don't hide it. BUT I also make sure I respect their culture. When we started hanging out with the locals we were surprised when they told us that we are the only Americans that come and hang out with them. We have 2 other American families in our complex. The people that just moved had never went out and ate at any of the restaurants in our village the entire 3 years they lived here. They told me that they just go to the places closer to post because those places speak English. When we went to Spain, we tried to speak Spanish as much as possible. I DID mess that up because I kept speaking Italian to them....but they just laughed and I corrected myself. BUT I tried. We love to travel (heading to Croatia in the morning). I never pretend to be anything than what I am. I am an American that loves to learn about other people and other cultures. I never feel unsafe.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 3, 2013 10:50:48 GMT -5
I looked up some random European cities out of BWI for August and it was running $2k.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 3, 2013 10:55:04 GMT -5
I have also heard them complain about the pizza...why can't they just find American style pizza here!!! You know, the good stuff like Little Caesar's!
I think these people should just stay home. And even if they did find a Little Caesar's it still wouldn't be exactly the same. Me and my roomate did find a Pizza Hut in Kota Kinabalu and decided to go in. Even though it's the same brand it was tailored to Malyasian tastes. My favorite story was our guide telling me he has lots of people come to the country then hide in their hotel room the entire time because "it's so hot and humid!' Uh. . .did you not realize you were traveling to a tropical climate? We also have a pretty solid reputation for being fat. People couldn't believe all 30 of us were so skinny, they thought all Americans were fat! Lovely.
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sapphire12
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Post by sapphire12 on Jul 3, 2013 11:04:13 GMT -5
I travel the world because I want to learn and experience other cultures. Wherever I am, in the states or elsewhere, I need to take notice of the environment in which I find myself. When overseas and English is not the official language, I make an attempt to learn a few words of the local language. It goes a long way. I also tend to be more low key when overseas, mostly so I can observe and learn from the locals.
ETA: I have traveled to other continents and stayed for up to 2.5 weeks for less than $4K.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 11:08:55 GMT -5
I pass myself off as Kenyan, just like our President.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 3, 2013 11:26:35 GMT -5
We spent about a month in Germany when DS was 3 (my in-laws lived there). Everywhere we went they just loved him. Granted he was always a well behaved child but still the shopkeepers would treat him like a little prince. In a crystal shop they gave him a crystal bunny that was like 7 inches tall and refused to accept payment for it. In a store with fabrics and things they gave him a little pillow with a crown on it and said he reminded them of a little prince. At the local restaurants they would offer to make him anything he wanted and always brought him out a fancy dessert. Literally everywhere we went they would give him little trinkets and candies. They'd crouch down and talk directly to him and ask if he was enjoying their country. Completely not at all how little kids are usually treated around here. Here if you see a kid in a china shop you are going to watch him like a hawk and assume he will break something.
Angel- It's not just military in Europe that fail to take advantage of their surroundings. When we lived in So Cal we were about a thirty minute drive from Laguna Beach and the ocean. Probably 1/3 of his class at school had never seen the ocean. We were situated right in the middle. between 30 and 60 minutes to the ocean, the mountains, and the desert. We were routinely surprised by how many of our friends and neighbors had barely traveled outside of our community.
The Boy is part of a German exchange program. His 4 week trip to Germany next summer will cost us no more than $2,500 total for the entire trip. If it ends up being less then during the 3rd week they will give the difference to each kid and they can spend it as they see fit. We did have to agree to host a German kid for a month this fall, had we refused DS would have had to pay more for his tirp.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Jul 3, 2013 11:46:11 GMT -5
No but I would love to move to Canada we live about 1.5 hours away from BC, a really cool city.
ETA: the only time I have been out of North America was Italy and I had no problem there, but I could totally understand in certain parts of the world.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 3, 2013 11:48:35 GMT -5
I looked up some random European cities out of BWI for August and it was running $2k. Which isn't bad considering you're talking a month out during peak travel time in the summer. You can fly business class from LAX to London for 4-4.5K if you buy in advance. For most of Europe you should be able to fly for quite a bit less than 4K if you're going coach.
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pinkbow832
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Post by pinkbow832 on Jul 3, 2013 11:59:37 GMT -5
Airline pricing is crazy. In the last year, I've bought my most expensive ticket to Europe (Italy, Aug. 2012, $1400) and cheapest ticket to Europe (Russia, March 2013, $400). There are some incredible sales to be had if you're flexible on season/destination. I highly recommend checking out travelzoo.com and looking for their flash sales. It helps if you can fly out of a major airport, but surprisingly fares from smaller airports aren't always that much more expensive, and can sometimes be cheaper. There is an entire segment of travelers who look for crazy routing to "fuel ", which means flying routes that trick ticketing systems into dropping the fuel surcharges on tickets. Certain airports/segments have different fuel prices and fees, so sometimes A-B is more expensive than C-A-B.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 3, 2013 12:05:16 GMT -5
I looked up some random European cities out of BWI for August and it was running $2k. Isn't this peak season?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 3, 2013 12:14:25 GMT -5
No but I would love to move to Canada we live about 1.5 hours away from BC, a really cool city. ETA: the only time I have been out of North America was Italy and I had no problem there, but I could totally understand in certain parts of the world. Isn't "BC" British Columbia a province? Vancouver IS a really cool city. So is Victoria.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 12:15:46 GMT -5
I looked up some random European cities out of BWI for August and it was running $2k. Isn't this peak season? Yes. August is the month that most Europeans take "Holiday". I know most of the businesses in our area shuts down for 3 weeks in August. I also know that most of the touristy areas here are a nightmare during that time. We tried to go to the beach in August and there wasn't a spot on the beach to relax. You have to get there really early in the morning to find a spot.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 3, 2013 12:16:43 GMT -5
I looked up some random European cities out of BWI for August and it was running $2k. Isn't this peak season? Probably? I had no idea when phoenix was considering going or where. I was just doing some random searches to see what kind of fares popped up since people were saying his number was crazy. I've already been overseas once this year. If I went again it'd have to be before summer was over, my fall is busy.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 3, 2013 12:24:13 GMT -5
I looked up some random European cities out of BWI for August and it was running $2k. I used Cheapoair and looked up leaving Tues Aug 6, returning Aug 20 These are round trip and include taxes and fees BWI - CDG $1434 BWI - LHR $1362 BWI - LHR $1446 (direct flight) BWI - FRA $1098 (on Condor Airlines. also a direct flight) BWI - AMS $1449 (AMS connects to many European destinations) Often you can save money travelling on certain days of the week.....
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 3, 2013 12:28:37 GMT -5
I wish I had that kind of vacation time to burn! Never mind the fact I already spent a week in Jamaica
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 3, 2013 12:29:38 GMT -5
I think part of the problem, Phoenix, is those who have travelled abroad extensively are speaking from personal experience. You, on the other hand, are speaking from what you think, rather than what you know, or have experienced. That sets up a dichotomy right from the beginning. You have no way of knowing what others might have experienced abroad, or what may have been occurring in some countries they visited. Different people will find different ways of coping with unexpected events. To say someone is "wrong", or "unpatriotic" based on supposition is bound to result in contention when you're speaking from supposition to someone who experienced what you're talking about.
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