Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 1, 2013 17:06:51 GMT -5
Today is Canada day, and I saw this article on CNN. It's about tips (in a kind of tounge in cheek manner) on how to fool people that you're Canadian when you travel abroad.
I have no idea why someone would want to pretend they were Canadian when they traveled abroad. I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, I get a bit angry due to my sense of patriotism. But at the same time it's like, why should I care? People can do what they want. But I think regardless, it's an odd thing to do.
I've traveled very little abroad, so maybe I'm wrong. I've only been to Mexico, Canada, and a few of the Carribean islands. And I haven't been out of the country in more than ten years. In fact, the last time I left the country was in December 2001, before passports were required to go to Mexico and Canada. So maybe things are different now.
Anyway, have you ever tried to hide your Americanness (if I can coin such a term), or would you if you traveled abroad?
www.cnn.com/2013/07/01/trave/fake-canadians-canada-day-travel/index.html
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 1, 2013 17:09:53 GMT -5
I certainly would not hide being American when I traveled abroad. It's not like I'd go shouting it from the rooftops or anything. It's not like I'd be shouting it from the rooftops, or running down the street in an American flag shirt singing the star spangeled banner. But I see no reason to hide it if asked. If for whatever reason people are rude to me because I'm an American, I figure it reflects poorly on them more than me.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 1, 2013 17:19:37 GMT -5
I've never tried to but I don't blame people who travel to certain countries that do. Early on when we were in both Iraq and Afghanistan Americans weren't real popular in some parts of the world and some American travelers would put Canadian patches on their bags to avoid harassment. I went to Europe back in 2007 and experienced some of this firsthand when people assumed we were warmonger Americans. About 20 minutes later those guys knew that wasn't the case and they were buying us shots. I think a lot of Americans don't want to be in wars or viewed that way but I'm not surprised when that's the perception others around the world have.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 1, 2013 17:19:43 GMT -5
having travelled throughout western Europe for work, I can honestly say that I do present myself as Canadian (I am half French-Canadian, and a dual citizen) when I travel abroad. once I clear US Customs in or out, I travel solely on my Canadian passport. this practice started when I was travelling by myself to some more questionable places, as a young woman, during George W Bush's first term - when world opinions of the US were not very favorable. I also figured that if I found myself in a dicey situation, I could avail myself of either embassy if I were carrying both passports - which I do, in different areas of my luggage/person. I still present myself as Canadian when travelling abroad due to the more positive reaction I get when I do so. having suffered through business trips with "ugly American" coworkers, who still proclaim "good morning!" as opposed to a "Bonjour!" at the end of a 2-week stay in France for example, I'm not surprised by the different initial reactions. I'm not one to be an "ugly" American when I travel anyway, and take the time to learn the local customs and greetings while I'm there. I'm in their home, not the other way around. somehow I don't think this post is going to be well received by the OP, but as he says - that's on him, not me.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 1, 2013 17:24:31 GMT -5
Oh, I always pretend to be someone I'm not when traveling abroad. I am on vacation, right?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 1, 2013 17:49:09 GMT -5
When I graduated from college I (now regrettably) passed up the chance to do the "starving student back pack thing" through Europe as my graduation gift because the world situation at the time was very tenuous. The US State Department was actively advising Americans to exercise caution when traveling in Eastern Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. Several of the student publications I read at the time were telling students to "outwardly" identify as something other than American when traveling (as in, sew or glue a Canadian or Australian patch on their backbacks) to avoid being targeted. Sad but true.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 1, 2013 17:54:49 GMT -5
A number of years ago, there was a documentary about a guy that quit his awesome job to backpack around the world alone. He documented it for a book, and maybe used a camera to get footage, so he could make this documentary. He said that many of the "young" Americans he met had Canadian flags. His trip was during the W years - and I suspect that most people didn't care if you were American or not - but if you did run into someone who did, you might rather not deal with it. I could see how I wouldn't care to defend my country - as even this weekend with my drunk neighbors I didn't much care to discuss politics. I sure would hate to feel obligated to have that same discussion with someone else's drunk neighbor.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 1, 2013 18:03:08 GMT -5
10-20 years ago it was definitely more popular to pretend to be Canadian, especially when Bush was president. Also I've traveled extensively in south America, it was always "recommended" to pretend to be Canadian because they didn't have as much money in case you were kidnapped by Peruvian drug loads or some crap like that. In Oceania it's cool to be Canadian because then you're part of the commonwealth. I dated a Canadian at the time, we always had a lot more "invites" and stuff when he had his Canadian flag flying off his backpack lol. Now my H is part-back-door Canadian, so I guess we can sew on our patches if we want.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2013 18:14:21 GMT -5
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 1, 2013 18:20:51 GMT -5
"somehow I don't think this post is going to be well received by the OP, but as he says - that's on him, not me."
Well, you're a duel citizen, so you're not misrepresenting yourself when you do so. So I don't really care.
But I think it's a valid point. Why should I misrepresent myself just so other people won't be dicks? If other people want to be dicks, then I say let them be dicks, I just won't engage in their dickishness.
Just seems odd to me. In all other aspects of life, people are encouraged to be who they are. Is international travel an exception? Furthermore, just seems like a cowardly thing to do, giving into the ignorance and rudness of others.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 1, 2013 18:26:29 GMT -5
"somehow I don't think this post is going to be well received by the OP, but as he says - that's on him, not me." Well, you're a duel citizen, so you're not misrepresenting yourself when you do so. So I don't really care. But I think it's a valid point. Why should I misrepresent myself just so other people won't be dicks? If other people want to be dicks, then I say let them be dicks, I just won't engage in their dickishness. Just seems odd to me. In all other aspects of life, people are encouraged to be who they are. Is international travel an exception? Furthermore, just seems like a cowardly thing to do, giving into the ignorance and rudness of others. Ignorance and rudeness I could handle. Being threatened, harassed, accosted, assaulted, kidnapped and or injured/killed because I "presented" as American - I could not. And I don't kid myself that it couldn't happen. A lot of the rest of the world really does not like us. I think, Phoenix, you might be shocked at how many people out there in the big wide world would NOT be eager to trade passports with you.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 1, 2013 18:30:02 GMT -5
I think it's a valid point to someone who really hasn't traveled abroad. You've been to places on the North American continent and the Caribbean which is a major tourist destination where they want your money. You say cowardly and I say it was a smart choice for people who didn't want to be harassed. People who did this weren't wearing Candian flag shirts and singing the Candian national anthem they were just trying to see the world and fly under the radar to avoid harassment. Nothing wrong with being who you are but when you're in a completely different area of the world there's more of "them" than you. Most people abroad weren't harassing Americans but you can be damn sure it would only take a few to not like what you have to say or just the fact that you're an American before there's a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2013 18:34:47 GMT -5
DH and I have never had a problem with being American when traveling in Europe. We don't fit whatever stereotypes Europeans may have about Americans; we're low-key and we're interested and knowledgeable about the history of the places we visit (unlike an American co-worker who once asked the guys at our Munich office, "so how did there get to be an East Germany and a West Germany?" ) I make a good attempt to use the local language and if I don't speak the local language and they don't speak English, I treat it as my problem, not theirs. We've never encountered any overt anti-American sentiment in our travels. We've occasionally run into the occasional crappy service or bad attitude, but that happens in the US, too.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 1, 2013 18:36:02 GMT -5
"Ignorance and rudeness I could handle. Being threatened, harassed, accosted, assaulted, kidnapped and or injured/killed because I "presented" as American - I could not. And I don't kid myself that it couldn't happen. A lot of the rest of the world really does not like us. I think, Phoenix, you might be shocked at how many people out there in the big wide world would NOT be eager to trade passports with you."
Well, I refuse to live my life in fear. That said, I think safety while traveling is a separate topic. If an area I was thinking about traveling to was particularly hostile to Americans I probably would not travel there in the first place.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 1, 2013 18:36:08 GMT -5
"somehow I don't think this post is going to be well received by the OP, but as he says - that's on him, not me." Well, you're a duel citizen, so you're not misrepresenting yourself when you do so. So I don't really care. But I think it's a valid point. Why should I misrepresent myself just so other people won't be dicks? If other people want to be dicks, then I say let them be dicks, I just won't engage in their dickishness. Just seems odd to me. In all other aspects of life, people are encouraged to be who they are. Is international travel an exception? Furthermore, just seems like a cowardly thing to do, giving into the ignorance and rudness of others. kittensaver and I are on the same page again here just because you find it rude doesn't mean it doesn't happen. quite frankly, that's why I posted the detail I did - I've travelled with Americans who just don't get it...and I'm not at all surprised by the reactions they got. multiply that by however many clueless Americans travel, and the general gut reaction to an American is just "ugh....again?" honestly, I think it's because we are just that insulated in such a large space compared to other countries (for the most part). I mean, think about it - you can see mountains, ocean, prairies, and swamps without ever leaving our country. someone in Europe might need to speak or understand four different languages to be able to do that. so when an American shows up over there and just expects everyone to speak English for him, he really shouldn't be surprised to be treated poorly. just my two cents.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 1, 2013 18:41:09 GMT -5
I have passed myself off as Canadian, but I was in Tennessee. When I told people when I was from NY, the immediately thought NYC and weren't very nice. If I told them I was Canadian, they were very nice. Whatever.
And I would travel on a Canadian passport in sme of the less stable areas of the world if I could.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 1, 2013 18:41:29 GMT -5
"Ignorance and rudeness I could handle. Being threatened, harassed, accosted, assaulted, kidnapped and or injured/killed because I "presented" as American - I could not. And I don't kid myself that it couldn't happen. A lot of the rest of the world really does not like us. I think, Phoenix, you might be shocked at how many people out there in the big wide world would NOT be eager to trade passports with you." Well, I refuse to live my life in fear. That said, I think safety while traveling is a separate topic. If an area I was thinking about traveling to was particularly hostile to Americans I probably would not travel there in the first place. I think you're a bit naive if you believe that you can't find yourself in a dangerous situation in a place that isn't hostile to Americans. and I'll tell you that the general world opinion toward Canada and its citizens is much more favorable than US and its citizens. I'm not at all trying to tell you what to do yourself, but I wish you wouldn't judge others that do what they feel is necessary to feel and be safe. cheers.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 1, 2013 18:43:14 GMT -5
"Ignorance and rudeness I could handle. Being threatened, harassed, accosted, assaulted, kidnapped and or injured/killed because I "presented" as American - I could not. And I don't kid myself that it couldn't happen. A lot of the rest of the world really does not like us. I think, Phoenix, you might be shocked at how many people out there in the big wide world would NOT be eager to trade passports with you." Well, I refuse to live my life in fear. That said, I think safety while traveling is a separate topic. If an area I was thinking about traveling to was particularly hostile to Americans I probably would not travel there in the first place. And many of the folks who low-key "represent" as Canadian or Australian or whatever-other-English-speaking-country are just trying to stay under the radar and travel safely. Of course not all - but many. It's not about pride or fear - or ignorance or embarassment or anything else like that. Maybe you don't know this because you are not widely traveled in the world? Not insulting you, just guessing from what you have said. Again, there are many, many folks out there in the big wide world who are hostile to America, and you don't have to go very far to find them. Sad but true. You are not as insular as you think
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 1, 2013 18:43:45 GMT -5
If a place is so dangerous and hostile to Americans that you're worried about being outright attacked, kidnapped, or worse, then why would you even risk going there pretending not to be American? And I doubt such a place is going to be much friendlier to any other westerners.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 1, 2013 18:44:15 GMT -5
"Ignorance and rudeness I could handle. Being threatened, harassed, accosted, assaulted, kidnapped and or injured/killed because I "presented" as American - I could not. And I don't kid myself that it couldn't happen. A lot of the rest of the world really does not like us. I think, Phoenix, you might be shocked at how many people out there in the big wide world would NOT be eager to trade passports with you." Well, I refuse to live my life in fear. That said, I think safety while traveling is a separate topic. If an area I was thinking about traveling to was particularly hostile to Americans I probably would not travel there in the first place. I think you're a bit naive if you believe that you can't find yourself in a dangerous situation in a place that isn't hostile to Americans. and I'll tell you that the general world opinion toward Canada and its citizens is much more favorable than US and its citizens. I'm not at all trying to tell you what to do yourself, but I wish you wouldn't judge others that do what they feel is necessary to feel and be safe. cheers. Chiver is spot-on.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 1, 2013 18:44:53 GMT -5
If a place is so dangerous and hostile to Americans that you're worried about being outright attacked, kidnapped, or worse, then why would you even risk going there pretending not to be American? And I doubt such a place is going to be much friendlier to any other westerners. You haven't traveled the world much, have you?
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jul 1, 2013 18:46:52 GMT -5
"somehow I don't think this post is going to be well received by the OP, but as he says - that's on him, not me." Well, you're a duel citizen, so you're not misrepresenting yourself when you do so. So I don't really care. But I think it's a valid point. Why should I misrepresent myself just so other people won't be dicks? If other people want to be dicks, then I say let them be dicks, I just won't engage in their dickishness. Just seems odd to me. In all other aspects of life, people are encouraged to be who they are. Is international travel an exception? Furthermore, just seems like a cowardly thing to do, giving into the ignorance and rudness of others. Ignorance and rudeness I could handle. Being threatened, harassed, accosted, assaulted, kidnapped and or injured/killed because I "presented" as American - I could not. And I don't kid myself that it couldn't happen. A lot of the rest of the world really does not like us. I think, Phoenix, you might be shocked at how many people out there in the big wide world would NOT be eager to trade passports with you. Absolutely. I do not announce being an American and I do what I can to blend in with the locals where possible. I have come across some pretty ugly anti American gatherings and Im smart enough to know trying to get them to understand the American viewpoint is a bad idea. Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean are NOT "foreign" countries....
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 1, 2013 18:47:36 GMT -5
Like Chiver and kittensaver said it's not about avoiding hostile places it's more about avoiding people who are hostile towards Americans which you can find anywhere in the world. Some of the people posting here are talking about parts of Europe which as a whole aren't hostile towards America. All it takes is a few people who have some preconceived notion about Americans and you're the one out of your element and outnumbered.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 1, 2013 18:49:18 GMT -5
DH and I have never had a problem with being American when traveling in Europe. We don't fit whatever stereotypes Europeans may have about Americans; we're low-key and we're interested and knowledgeable about the history of the places we visit (unlike an American co-worker who once asked the guys at our Munich office, "so how did there get to be an East Germany and a West Germany?" ) I make a good attempt to use the local language and if I don't speak the local language and they don't speak English, I treat it as my problem, not theirs. We've never encountered any overt anti-American sentiment in our travels. We've occasionally run into the occasional crappy service or bad attitude, but that happens in the US, too. Same here. We've never pretended to be any nationality other than what we are, but we do try to be low key. We've been to Egypt, China, Japan, Fiji and various European countries. Like Athena, we've sometimes run into crappy service, but have never felt singled out in a negative way because we are Americans. Bush was in office when we were in Ireland and one Irish gentleman asked me to tell him ((Bush) such and such. But his ire was clearly directed at Dubya rather than us. I AM far more comfortable travelling abroad with Obama in office. He has restored a lot of respect for the US.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jul 1, 2013 18:49:19 GMT -5
If a place is so dangerous and hostile to Americans that you're worried about being outright attacked, kidnapped, or worse, then why would you even risk going there pretending not to be American? And I doubt such a place is going to be much friendlier to any other westerners. You haven't traveled the world much, have you? One of the biggest anti American gatherings I have come across was in the middle of London.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 1, 2013 18:51:44 GMT -5
Well, whenever I get around to heading to Europe or Australia or wherever else I plan on traveling, I'll let you know if I manage to come back in one piece. Judging from the responses here, you're taking your life in your own hands whenever you leave America.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 1, 2013 18:52:04 GMT -5
If a place is so dangerous and hostile to Americans that you're worried about being outright attacked, kidnapped, or worse, then why would you even risk going there pretending not to be American? And I doubt such a place is going to be much friendlier to any other westerners. would you go to a completely new place in the US by yourself, and try to be a tourist? there are places in this country where my opinions aren't welcome, as well as there are places in this country that Rush Limbaugh's opinion isn't at all welcome. if you're by yourself, you're on your own. what makes you think that a friendly foreign country is any different? as I said before, you are naive in your judgment. I suggest you travel a bit, you will likely change your opinion.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 1, 2013 18:52:28 GMT -5
I went to London a few years ago for work and there were protests going on against the wars. When I arrived the cabbie had to avoid certain streets because they actually had some mini riots the day before. Anti-American or rather anti-war, anti-capitalism, etc can be found just about anywhere. That said London rocked and I'd love to go back there and all over Europe.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 1, 2013 18:59:43 GMT -5
If a place is so dangerous and hostile to Americans that you're worried about being outright attacked, kidnapped, or worse, then why would you even risk going there pretending not to be American? And I doubt such a place is going to be much friendlier to any other westerners. would you go to a completely new place in the US by yourself, and try to be a tourist? there are places in this country where my opinions aren't welcome, as well as there are places in this country that Rush Limbaugh's opinion isn't at all welcome. if you're by yourself, you're on your own. what makes you think that a friendly foreign country is any different? as I said before, you are naive in your judgment. I suggest you travel a bit, you will likely change your opinion. I have traveled extensively within the U.S, and have never run into any problems. All you have to do in a strange area is be low key and non confrontational.
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pinkbow832
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Post by pinkbow832 on Jul 1, 2013 18:59:48 GMT -5
I've traveled to 38 countries in the last 10 years, across Europe, Asia, and North Africa and have had 1 person in 10 years turn around and walk the other way when I said I was American. That was in 2005 in Casablanca, so right in the middle of the W years. Coincidentally, it was the same trip that a stranger (a Moroccan soldier, at that) insisted on sharing a meal that his wife packed for him with my friend and I on the train. I'm a small blond female, and started traveling abroad at the age of 17/18, some of the trips alone. d
If you travel lightly, are respectful of the culture you're visiting, and make an effort to learn a few words of the local language, you will not only be fine but you will probably have some great conversations and learn a lot about the places you're visiting. People are remarkably similar everywhere you go and will generally treat you as you treat them.
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