bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:58:43 GMT -5
01333Message #2869 - 10/19/10 09:18 PM
BGA4444Message #2870 - 10/23/10 06:20 PMGreat Britain about to cut spending 25% annually for the next four years. It amazes me that spending that took decades to cause a problem can be cured in four years during the worst downturn ever!
neohguyMessage #2871 - 10/23/10 06:58 PMGreat Britain about to cut spending 25% annually for the next four years. It amazes me that spending that took decades to cause a problem can be cured in four years during the worst downturn ever! It may happen in the USA also. The debt clock that has been posted by our posters demonstrates growing sentiment. Note how the personal debt numbers are decreasing at a rapid rate. Mortgage debt is contracting because home sales are sluggish and foreclosures are being written off. Credit card debt is declining because many people have had their limit reduced and some is being written off in bankruptcy. Savings is dropping because of hard times and it makes more economic sense to pay off high interest debt. What I find interesting is the fact that debt (personal) is contracting. We have not seen that in a long time in this country. I think it indicates a major trend change in US consumer behavior. www.usdebtclock.org/
Larry in DallasMessage #2872 - 10/23/10 07:38 PMCapitalism has a major flaw. It is based on the going rate. It is going because it is always in movement, usually up. The rate is set by the last person(s) that purchased a thing, requiring all that follow to ante up the same price or more. All economy textbooks show the supply and demand curves, but are missing a third dimension that is true value. That true value of a thing is normally little changed. For instance, what is the true value of a loaf of bread or any of its substitutes. It remains largely fixed until there is none, which never happens. When the supply/demand curve is above the true value, you paid to much, when it is below, you got a good deal, when it is equal, you paid a fair price. If our economic ideas were as good as we think they are our economic car would not always be in the shop for repairs, and at times we suspect it is a lemon, but pay the repair bill for fixes that seem to get larger and drive out the same old car. Our economic leaders do not more than they have learned in those books and are perplexed by not being able to page to the answer. If it is not in those books, it does not exist.
BGA4444Message #2873 - 10/23/10 08:24 PMNeo and Larry thanks and good points. I believe things should change and be fixed too. However, fixing them in four years is only going to destroy already fragile economies and throw the planet into chaos. I believe a smarter plan would be to pay the debt in 20 years 5% each year. Also no interest you want your principle back agree to these terms or we default. Note holders choice! Drastic times call for drastic measures!
neohguyMessage #2874 - 10/23/10 09:12 PMHi BGA. My post was not necessarily my sentiment but what I see as a major sentiment change. I think we totally blew it with most of our stimulus packages. People would have been more comfortable with it if some of the highly publicized programs like "cash for clunkers" and "home buyers credit" being used for public projects. People are more comfortable when they see their stimulus monies going to public works projects. I would have been happier seeing the auto stimulus monies being used for replacing our ageing municipal, state, county vehicles with an emphasis on cars that are assembled here. The housing stimulus could have been used for projects like updating school and other publicly owned buildings. I imagine a man that installs roofing on a house can probably be easily trained on commercial type roofing. Clunkers and houses did not work well so people overreact and do the opposite. Keynesian policy may have had a chance if it had not been used for manufacturing credit bubbles and massive deficits during the past 25 yrs. Now its a bad word.
djrickMessage #2875 - 10/23/10 11:26 PM[ nelp.3cdn.net/422ee027eeabf29b8c_d4m6ib70h.pdf] 1.2 Million Workers Out in the Cold for the Holidays If Congress Fails to Renew Federal Jobless Benefits that Expire November 30th The less we pay in unemployment, the more we can pay in Wall St. bonuses. Oh yeah, it's going to be a banner year on Wall Street! Many thanks to Mssrs. Paulson and Bernanke for keeping the depression off Wall Street and on Main Street. And remember, Wall St. isn't just about financial fraud, it's about Government Sponsored financial fraud. Party on Lloyd, party on Jamie.
djrickMessage #2876 - 10/23/10 11:27 PMThe looming expiration of the current extensions comes with an extremely narrow window in which Congress can reauthorize them. After the mid-term elections, lawmakers are scheduled to return on November 15th for just four to six days of votes before taking off again for the Thanksgiving holiday.
BGA4444Message #2877 - 10/24/10 08:15 PMThanks DJ, you are right if those millions of Americans loose that lifeline it will surely be a miserable holiday season and the winter that looms will bring further trouble.
djrickMessage #2878 - 10/25/10 12:18 AM From the full report: Since the unemployment insurance program was created in response to the Great Depression, Congress has never cut federally-funded jobless benefits when unemployment was this high for this long (at over nine percent for 17 consecutive months). The earliest Congress ever started pulling back on benefits was when unemployment reached the level of 7.2 percent
nationwide.
That was before we decided that jobless people were lazy./snark off
djrickMessage #2879 - 10/25/10 12:21 AM[ www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/02/job_losses_continue.html] Job Losses Continue at Accelerated Pace [ www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/02/job_losses_continue.html] Every month, we'll be looking at a significant portion of the 500k+ workers that were being laid off two years prior, falling off the 99 week UE benefits, with peaks where the benefits were extended and more people than normal re-signed. Ouch, we're just about to hit the 2 year anniversary of 600k ish job losses per month. Brace brace brace.
djrickMessage #2880 - 10/25/10 12:24 AM -- In 2009, more than 48 million Americans were enrolled in the Medicaid program. --One out of every six Americans is now enrolled in at least one anti-poverty program run by the U.S. government. --Approximately 21% of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010. --Anti-poverty spending by the U.S. government has increased 89% over the past decade. --The cost of health care increased a staggering 9.6% for all U.S. households from 2007 to 2009.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:59:36 GMT -5
djrickMessage #2881 - 10/25/10 01:05 AM--The number of Americans enrolled in the food stamp program has set a new all-time record for 20 consecutive months. --In July 2010, 41.8 million Americans were on food stamps. --The number of Americans in the food stamp program skyrocketed more than 55 percent between December 2007 and July 2010.
robkoMessage #2882 - 10/25/10 01:34 AMIceland population 300 thousand or so it's major industry is fishing i hardly think it is a proxy for any countries economic well being. This Recession and the accompanying change in the status quo in the U.S. is a economically natural way for an economy to blow off the excess steam and to put to sleep inefficient practices and companies. The slowdown in employment will work itself out as long as long as the chicken little's don't run the show (they usually Don't) as far as food riots i'll check outside after i've enjoyed my dinner. I would suggest leaving the bunker and going outside and see that life is still going on. I work in one of the hardest hit industries (finance)in one of the hardest hit counties (Palm Beach) in one of the hardest hit states(florida) and i think the riots may be in your mind. As far as the short sellers i have the same attitude as i do with vegetarians Thank you for keeping my Meat (stocks) cheap. P.s. i looked at houses in 2005 and decided despite the availability of financing I could afford it or be assured that i could refinance when the balloon became due. I read that in a book from the early 90's unfortunately sheep do get slaughtered. Have fun shorting and you may want to look at little things called earnings that quality companies seem to have an increasing amount of.
www.usdebtclock.orgMessage #2883 - 10/25/10 02:20 AMdjrick: ACTUAL FOOD STAMP RECIPIENTS: APPROACHING 44 MILLION. ACTUAL UNEMPLOYED: APPROACHING 28 MILLION. ACTUAL U.S. DEBT: APPROACHING 55 TRILLION. (THE NATIONAL DEBT IS APPROACHING 14 TRILLION, BUT THE REAL U.S. DEBT IS APPROACHING 55 TRILLION COUNTING UNFUNDED LIABILITIES) [www.usdebtclock.org/] www.usdebtclock.org (THE REAL TIME STATISTICS ARE ALL HERE)
djrickMessage #2884 - 10/25/10 02:53 AMWorthy of reposting: [ www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/222206#] Exclusive Excerpt: America on Sale, From Matt Taibbi's 'Griftopia' | Rolling Stone Politics "Here's yet another diabolic cycle for ordinary Americans, engineered by the grifter class. A Pennsylvanian like Robert Lukens sees his business decline thanks to soaring oil prices that have been jacked up by a handful of banks that paid off a few politicians to hand them the right to manipulate the market. Lukens has no say in this; he pays what he has to pay. Some of that money of his goes into the pockets of the banks that disenfranchise him politically, and the rest of it goes increasingly into the pockets of Middle Eastern oil companies. And since he's making less money now, Lukens is paying less in taxes to the state of Pennsylvania, leaving the state in a budget shortfall. Next thing you know, Governor Ed Rendell is traveling to the Middle East, trying to sell the Pennsylvania Turnpike to the same oil states who've been pocketing Bob Lukens's gas dollars. It's an almost frictionless machine for stripping wealth out of the heart of the country, one that perfectly encapsulates where we are as a nation."
common_sense.Message #2885 - 10/25/10 05:15 AMIt's an almost frictionless machine for stripping wealth out of the heart of the country, one that perfectly encapsulates where we are as a nation." the perfect definition of WALL STREET! I bet iFrank would see this as a green shoot!
BGA4444Message #2886 - 10/25/10 11:44 AMDJ, great post!!! I am very sad and concerned that so many states think their incumbent politicians have been doing so well, they re-elected them, in the primaries. I can only hope for across the board losses in the elections! Incumbents out be they R or D!
PoorandUglyMessage #2887 - 10/25/10 01:58 PMThanks DJ, you are right if those millions of Americans loose that lifeline it will surely be a miserable holiday season and the winter that looms will bring further trouble. Screw that! Let em cake! Better yet, if they're lucky based on the volition of government, they can only have the crumbs. Kick em when they are down. Ridicule them. Insult them. Tell em how lazy and unworthy they are etc... That is the new American way. Don't you know there are a plethora of jobs (with livable wages) out there anyway?? All that counts is that the Ivy League Wall Street entities and individuals got theirs. The rest can go to hell.
BGA4444Message #2888 - 10/25/10 08:35 PMPoor and Ugly you are correct. I can not believe that we raised the minimum wage. I knew those money hungry minimum wage earners would cause this meltdown. The republicans told us this would happen. The hikes in minimum wages caused unemployment to go through the roof. Small business had to lay off workers because of the minimum wage hike. Now we have to pay them with food stamps and unemployment benefits. The unemployed need to get off their lazy butts and find a job! Cut em off! That is what I say! Then many of them will starve and freeze to death this winter. Lower the minimum wage back to $3 a hour. Then we will have some jobs for those lazy bums. Everyone cant have one of those cush jobs bringing in $10-$15 an hour. Those are for Government workers and Unions! Retirement, bull let them work till they die. New retirement age 80 starting in 2011 no retro no grandfather clause. If you are not 80 get to work till you are. I am sure one of those new $3 an hour minimum wage jobs will tide them over. Taxes- For every dollar you make over $100,000 you are taxed at 200% until the debt is paid and the budget is balanced. The threat alone will make the idiots in Washington toe the line. We will be in the black by Dec 31,. Healthcare, companies will soon realize it will be cheaper to ban together, buy their own hospitals, doctors and nurses, and give free health care to everyone. Cut the lawyers and insurance companies out of our healthcare. If you want free healthcare you sign a no sue waiver. Otherwise pay for it yourself. Doctors visits internet only. Enjoy!
Stay PutMessage #2889 - 10/26/10 03:41 AMDon't you know there are a plethora of jobs (with livable wages) out there anyway?? poorandugly, you are right on the money dude. I mean ever since Clinton and the Dems shoved NAFTA down our throats, and simultaneously skyrocketed corporate taxes, thereby proving to our entire industry infrastructure that their only way to stay in business is to move off shore, there are in fact no more real jobs left in the United States, minus the service industry (waiters, clerks, etc.). However, does paying $15/hr for some guy pushing a broom seem reasonable to anyone? I mean the hardest thing that guy has to think about, all day, is where he is going to that pile of dirt. That justifies $15/hr?
BGA4444Message #2890 - 10/29/10 03:15 AMThis thread is almost two years old. While the market has staged a major turnaround, the USA is currently in shambles. October is going to end up being the worst ever. Layoffs and furloughs continue. Where is the interest payments going to come from for all this debt. I will tell you. It will come from a already broke mainstreet. As the money is sucked from the people expect things to get alot worse. The market is doing great but can that growth be sustained? I think not! QE this QE that keep helping just Wall st. and see where that gets you eventually!
BGA4444Message #2891 - 10/29/10 04:52 PMRoubini says America is a fiscal train wreck. He also called the real-estate bubble. The only way out of this thing is for governments to tax their way out. My God the interest rates alone are going to bury us!
PoorandUglyMessage #2892 - 10/29/10 08:57 PMRoubini says America is a fiscal train wreck. He also called the real-estate bubble. The only way out of this thing is for governments to tax their way out. My God the interest rates alone are going to bury us! They call that a no win situation. The more QE they do, the higher taxes and interest rates inevitably have to go up in the future to compensate for THAT and as well as the existing past sins of the fathers. For now though, apparently just like over the last decade, money is again free and does grow on trees. For how long can it endure and how much can be implemented before it can no longer be controlled anymore are the 64 trillion dollar questions. Bubbles are an essential part of the US economy, don't you know? Apparently, unlike you, many don't mind paying the price unless they have their physical exit plans in place to some other foreign jurisdiction when the time comes. So take heed on election night to see the folly of fools chant "Stop the spending!" but are probably the same people who like or at least don't mind the Wall Street con game with mother Fed at the helm with this POMO and QE crapola.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:00:28 GMT -5
Stay Put
Message #2893 - 10/30/10 05:19 AM
Tariffs Not Taxes!
BGA4444
Message #2894 - 11/01/10 03:11 PM
Stay, I agree, we could take the tariff monies and give it, via tax credits, to industries that the products being tariffed compete with. That would save American jobs and at least make us more competitive for our own sales.
October has been so bad in my industry it is really scary! One of our locations was off 50%, while my location was off 30% yoy. This can not continue and the US economy survive!
Crying Tree
Message #2895 - 11/01/10 05:14 PM
Get a grip. Prisons are full. Welfare rolls are full. Every lazy person in town is disabled. Illegal's running wild throughout the states. Wages are crap. Who makes it on $10.00 an hour. Take out taxes and beer money and live on the street or flop house. Things are not better even if the recession ended in 2009. Hot air and lies fill the rooms of everyone listening. Were stuck in place and sinking with wrong answers and bad leadership in top places. Going nowhere fast is the norm today. Vote out the incumbents who sit on their fat behinds and laugh at us.
BGA4444
Message #2896 - 11/03/10 02:51 PM
Now that republicans hold the house the economy is doomed even more. The problem is the two groups are so ideologically far apart they wont be able to get anything done. Just keep spending like you have been doing, leave healthcare and medicare alone, and kick the social security can down the road. It will all take care of itself- yeah right.
schrizo
Message #2897 - 11/03/10 03:03 PM
Agreed BGA
Crying Tree
Message #2898 - 11/03/10 03:21 PM
Things are changing - Next Team. More GOP representatives. Good. The last two years cash from stimulus went everywhere but to my house. Just keep changing until the Politian's knows who the boss really is...
Crying Tree
Message #2899 - 11/03/10 04:03 PM
You got to get real life. Get a $ 8,000 tax deduction and buy a house. I did. No deduction Tuesday - Wednesday or Thursday of that week. What a screw job. No $250 for seniors and no raises. Get you foreclosure stopped on we help go down drain government. We put yours in shredder again - please fill more forms. We here to help. The story goes. More stimulus for AIG/ Vacations are coming and banks get huge bonuses for the great economy lending out so much money. Time for Change.
BGA4444
Message #2900 - 11/03/10 05:57 PM
Hell the recession ended 18 months ago! So what is the Fed doing trying to boost the economy? I will tell you. They keep throwing money after money after money at the stock market. The idiots have yet to learn that money does not make it to Main St.. Five more years of this and there will be no economy left to save.
BGA4444
Message #2901 - 11/05/10 01:32 PM
Three thousand jobs per state! That will help! I wonder if the 150 thousand are the part-time holiday workers all the stores hire? If so we will lose them all Dec 31,! Also, I am sure if the congress doesn't approve continuing unemployment benefits for the ten or so million that need it the holiday will be a bust for many of the hardest hit areas. We will see! Claims run out very soon!
great depression1
Message #2902 - 11/05/10 02:01 PM
manufacturing jobs dropped yet again and all we got for jobs was xmas seasonal jobs......work week hours up by .2 hours.........lord these idiots on wall street and the fed..........we need to repeal the fed!
Crying Tree
Message #2903 - 11/05/10 02:22 PM
How much will you see of the next 600 billion in stimulus? 0? Big bonuses for banks and AIG again ? The rich are running a little short and do not want to dig into their own money for Christmas.
BGA4444
Message #2904 - 11/05/10 02:28 PM
I agree GD1, If any of those idiots in Washington ever come up with a idea that will help the whole country I will fall over.
Two things I believe will help the whole country;
1) Tax credit of 50% up to ten thousand on any home improvement job.
2) For one year refinance anyone's home at the lowest rate on what is owed on the house not what it is worth.
These two thing are so simple and would have a immediate positive boost on the whole country!!
These are two good ideas that would work but Washington is to stupid to use ideas that will help us all.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:01:21 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #2905 - 11/05/10 04:25 PMBGA4444 - Make No Mistake - It is a depression - severe recession for some and bonanza for others. Biggest bonuses ever for BOA? People who got stimulus are rolling in cash and receiving huge bonuses on the top ends. They don't want this to stop. The rest of us pick the bill we cannot afford and eat crap.
time2shareMessage #2906 - 11/05/10 06:51 PMMore QE2...... hummmmm! Why do we need more liquidity?, Employment still at 9.6...and they are celebrating 151,000 private jobs being created.....Hummmmmm! Yet they did not say how many Laid off ! Something stinks here! And, It is the entire story! They only feed you bits a pieces...NOT THE REAL AND TRUE PICTURE..The Media wants to push stocks up so they can charge more for advertising, Air time and push revenues up and cost up on everyone..That is in their self serve interest. What do we get MISINFORMED!!!!! DIG INTO THE FACTS THIS IS ANOTHER BUBBLE only this bubble is wider spread IT IS HITTING GOLD, BONDS, and STOCKS! The market is sooo ahead of itself in will correct down again and flush you out with the rest of the toilet water .....IF YOU MADE MONEY GREAT! but GET OUT before the correction in the next 5 days........The Inflation in core CPI products will stop this very small perceived economic up turn, which is mainly fueled by HYPE! Don't get caught up in all the bullHYPE...!
BGA4444Message #2907 - 11/05/10 07:09 PMI agree guys! With all the money being printed and handed out inflation is about to go out of control! Very soon when milk is $5 a gallon an bread is $4 a loaf and gas is $10 a gallon things will get bad very very quickly!
usa oneMessage #2908 - 11/05/10 07:36 PMSo we are going to have a big correction in 5 days?
BGA4444Message #2909 - 11/05/10 07:41 PMJust doom and gloomers. But I do think a huge one will happen when the dow gets to the next big Plateau. Say 12,000! I bet there will be a lot of profit taking!
Bethann-1-2-3Message #2910 - 11/05/10 09:52 PMI was so optimistic listening to CNBC this morning. The job numbers up, stocks up. A CEO of Odesk talking about how wonderful their service is. How they can offer a broad pool of contractors to an employer. My goodness. It's just another site where we poor Americans are competing for what would pay $30-50/hr. here against $8/hr in India. Very worisome. Of course the CEO talked about how some mom in Tenessee could get the work and never mentioned the worldwide competition.
common_sense.Message #2911 - 11/05/10 10:07 PMJust doom and gloomers. But I do think a huge one will happen when the dow gets to the next big Plateau. Say 12,000! I bet there will be a lot of profit taking! remember how much of the market is now owned by the PDs(TBTF). All it will take is one "flash trade" in the wrong direction and this puppy is gone and the TBTF begin to cannibalize themselves.
time2shareMessage #2912 - 11/05/10 11:07 PMIt is not the Doom and Gloom it is the Bait and Switch...The expectations in Wall Street were 60K new private jobs ....That was so low it was a joke... All so these numbers seem to be a BIG JUMP FORWARD! BUT, look again at what made up that number Dumbo! Embedded were 35,000 Temp JOBS not full time jobs ! LOOK at the Figures and the shell game continues.......Once the reality hits and the Holiday Christmas shopping season that started this year early in October starts to Whimp out you will see that by December 20........the HYPE will HIT THE BRICK WALL with the realization that the money ran out a while back!!!! And then guess what? Look for the Stock Market that is already ahead of itself to Take a serious Dive........Right after January 3rd, 2011 Real Suckermoves buy into GM......IPO! While GM is parading around the country..the chinese are making plans to introduce their cars into the US car market and just like Hyundai.......They will take a huge chunk out of the compact and mid size car market from GM. The News mentioned people bought more trucks than cars because of the higher price of domestic built cars......and as an added bonus it doubled as a moving vehicle when they had to finally had to move out of their 2 million foreclosed homes.
Murphy MartinMessage #2913 - 11/06/10 10:57 AMIt's cute that some folks think we're in a depression. Good for them for trying to use a 3-syllable word.
BGA4444Message #2914 - 11/06/10 03:29 PMI can assure you M&M that most that post on these boards are no where near a depression than you are. However, you and others like you need to look at the sheer numbers of folks on food stamps and the number of unemployed. The teenage pregnancy rate. The high school drop out rate. For most of us the downturn may only mean instead of Starbucks we buy Mcdonald's Latte every morning. But for the millions out of work, sick with no insurance, about to retire with no nest egg- America is a very scary place. My 80 year old dad, veteran of the occupational forces in Europe at the end of WWII and the Korean War, is being pressed by higher cost in every category while earning less on his savings and no increase on SS. Our moms and dads, grandparents, and older folks in general are being treated like crap. The population is getting older needing more for healthcare and basic needs and the only people getting help in this country are bankers and Wall st. crooks. America is in a depression and being at the tail end of the baby boomers I am very depressed at what has happened to my great country. But if your fine, that is all that matters. I gladly pay my taxes without crying. Most middle class Americans do. I recently heard one of the founders of Home depot saying he would gladly pay more taxes and should. He stated the problem, with many rich people, they spend more time bitching about paying taxes when they should be spending their time earning more money. I agree with him. This country is filled with a bunch of rich candy asses that would be speaking German were it not for the lives of the middle class and the poor who saved them. The rich- bitch about needing more while they live life to the excess. America needs to get back to the basics, education, religion and loving each other. Democrats - republicans - Bullcrap we are all Americans first and should do what is best for America. The only thing politicians can come together on is attacking and killing other nations and peoples. It is just a little scary. I know one thing for sure, change is coming to America, but it may not be the kind of change any of us want or were expecting. Good day! Good luck and God bless!
time2shareMessage #2915 - 11/06/10 07:21 PMAmericans this Christmas will be gadget Overdosed......which are all totally overpriced! The iPOD and iPAD, XBOX, Wii, PAY STATION typical user are the lazy, over weight, recluse, socially stagnant, materially minded, introverted (depending their mental age) and early gadget adaptor (adults)or what like to call them the "INQUIRING MIND" market segment...The rest have been sucked up by the Hype, and that too will pass. This brain washed generation are hell bent in using their spare money on all of these throw away stupid material items........That is how we are sucking them dry of their childhood, aspirations, hope and future. We brain wash our kids, so we can distract them long enough to pass on our Debt from generation to generation without a second thought. IS THIS OUR LEGACY? LOOK AT YOUR KIDS OR GRAND KIDS! ....THAT IS EXOTICALLY WHAT THEY WILL SAYING ABOUT OUR GENERATION 15 years from now.....!
neohguyMessage #2916 - 11/06/10 09:01 PMAmericans this Christmas will be gadget Overdosed......which are all totally overpriced! The iPOD and iPAD, XBOX, Wii, PAY STATION typical user are the lazy, over weight, recluse,.... There was an article posted last week that said flat screen Tv's may be reduced in price by 20%-25% this holiday season. Fridays consumer credit report shows a continuing decline in revolving credit for September. The Consumer Metrics Institute shows a recent uptick in discretionary purchases but I think that might be due to decent (relatively speaking) car sales. noir.bloomberg.com/markets/ecalendar/index.html Highlights
For only the second time in the last 20 months consumer credit shows a monthly increase, up $2.1 billion in September. If August, at $2.41 trillion, remains the cycle low after revisions, the peak-to-trough decline from the July 2008 peak of $2.58 trillion will be 6.6 percent.
September's gain is due solely to a $10.4 billion rise in non-revolving credit, a component boosted by strong auto sales. Strong unit sales of autos reported earlier this week point to another rise for this component in the October report. Revolving credit, reflecting the move away from credit cards, contracted $8.3 billion during September.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:02:13 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2917 - 11/08/10 12:21 PMNeo, good post, Sept. was also a pretty good month in the flooring business. However, October sales killed us. After the end of the month Mohawk layed-off two more sales guys and abruptly laid off a marketing guy. The marketing guy was the only one who had a feel for the pulse of our business. He spent a lot of time out asking us questions about what we needed and how he could help. Now I guess Mohawk will learn the answer to those questions by osmosis. I have heard industry sales were off 30% for October. November sales are off just as bad if not worse! I heard friday the owner can no longer afford insurance for us. So we either pay for it ourselves or do not have it. Things are really looking bad. I do not know how much longer we can hang on. I will keep you all posted!
neohguyMessage #2918 - 11/08/10 01:02 PMI've been cheering for you BGA but it isn't doing much unfortunately. Two weeks ago there was decent surge in lumber loadings but it immediately fell off a cliff the week after. I have a customer (manufacturer) that makes rubberized flooring and they are struggling. They used to pay in less than thirty days, now it's 90-120 days.
PoorandUglyMessage #2919 - 11/08/10 02:04 PMGood post#2914, BGA4444. 
BGA4444Message #2920 - 11/08/10 02:37 PMThank Neo and Poor and Ugly, I am proud and blessed to have a job. Even if I am working for about 50% less and now no insurance. Hey I smile everyday. Life is good even at it's worst. I had a great weekend- ballroom dancing, running and golfing. I know a lot of others are not doing near as well as I am. 2010 is almost history. Lets all hope for a better 2011. In the immortal words of "Papillion" - "I'm still here you bastards". The American people are still here too!
common_sense.Message #2921 - 11/08/10 02:48 PMThere was an article posted last week that said flat screen Tv's may be reduced in price by 20%-25% this holiday season. www.walmart.com/ip/Vizio-55-Class/10993799 That TV is $300 cheaper than I paid at this time last year. A little less than a 20% discount.
BGA4444Message #2922 - 11/09/10 05:29 PMHave you guys heard about the dealer incentives Honda and Toyota are paying to try and up sales? Clark Howard said yesterday that August was terrible in the new car biz. Has anyone seen car sales lately? What is going on? With China's new rating company lowering the USA's rating from AA to A+ with negative outlook I have to give the Chinese credit where credit is due. It is amazing to me some of the world's smallest peoples have the world's largest "balls" to give us a true rating. Dang my hat is off to them. They also seem to think the new round of QE will put us back in a recession- The one I believe we have never left!
Murphy MartinMessage #2923 - 11/10/10 10:52 AM we are all Americans first and should do what is best for America. Nonsense. Some of us are humans first and Americans only second.
BGA4444Message #2924 - 11/10/10 02:52 PMHey M & M, Nonsense, some of us are souls from a much higher realm and humans secondly! However, many souls are from a much darker place, disguised as humans, living as Americans, and thriving as Democrats and Republicans. But the darkest and most evil of all these things are thriving as most politicians and occasional posters on market talk.
wizzozsMessage #2925 - 11/10/10 03:44 PMAmericans need to brace for a economical adjustment. You can use one word if you prefer to label the situation. We have allowed large corporate enterprises to pay our elected represenatives Why is it that no news broadcasing company will not broadcast who contributed to who and for what reason? What was the total spent on the last election, and who contributed  ? WE NEED CAMPAIGN REFORM!!!!!!! Until that happens, we will see no change in our government. Americans need to demand acountability from the contributors and elected represenatives. The Ethics of this process is not the American way of representing the voters and the interest of the people. Party affiliation either way should have one focus, and that is to operate in a ethical manner. If we fail to change then we will eventually, totally exhaust the trust between our elected officials and the voting population. I have a feeling that greed will continue to strangle the economic groth until we are on our knees. What next? ?
time2shareMessage #2926 - 11/10/10 04:02 PMBuying PUT protection to the down side will not help you......If you in.... Your caught in another Bull Trap......NOW! Once the Advance TRADE Automated Super Computer calculates that enough Bull positions without protect exist it triggers a sell and collapse of the strong positions in order to TAKE FROM YOU AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE UNTIL YOU BRING BACK SOME COVER EQUILIBRIUM POSITION........THE ALGORITHMS ARE FAR TOOOO FAST FOR YOU TO RECOVER FROM.....THE MARKET IS RIGGED AGAINST YOU IN THE LONG RUN AND THE HOUSE ALWAYS HAS A LONG AND SHORT TERM advantage ALWAYS!!!!!! When are you guys going to learn THAT!!! THEY EXIST ONLY BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO FEED THEM.....!!!!!! STOP FEEDING THEM AND TAKING FROM YOURSELF.....YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS PUNISHMENT!!!!! THE MARKET IS A GIANT PONZI SCHEME.......AND THE ETF's new scheme will CON MANY AMERICANS INTO ANOTHER BIGGER RIPOFF BUBBLE/BUST!!!!!!THE Correction SLIDE STARTED 3 days ago and it is getting worst every day........Europe has been under strain and Today it started to protest.....They start at the University level, Next are the elderly..............Our Government will move on that here next year, Moving up the retirement age to 69........You will see protest hear for that BIG TIME!
common_sense.Message #2927 - 11/10/10 04:46 PMTHE MARKET IS A GIANT PONZI SCHEME Absolutely!! how many Ponzis are exposed during times of duress? Now the FEDERAL RESERVE is pumping BILLIONS into it to keep it from collapse!! it hit's the definition of a PONZI dead on! The Fed just stated that a growing market can perceived as wealth to encourage spending. What they are doing is subterfuge: they aren't going to tell us the truth that this thing is a PONZI and will collapse, so they make up an excuse - perceived wealth my donkey!
Crying TreeMessage #2928 - 11/10/10 07:52 PMTheft is on the rise. Crunch time is now. Unemployment will not go on forever. The average run of the mill American has his home equity to fall back on - Now that has disappeared due to greed and mortgage fraud. The poor guy who was honest and paid their way is caught up in the biggest fraud in history. We all pay for cheats out of our pockets. Stores & credit card lenders raise prices to cover looses from cheats & thieves. Dream on that things will pick up from stimulus. When that stops - then the truth. We are on the road to ruin with over population, lack of decent jobs and disrespect of our environment. The piper will need to be in life & money.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:03:05 GMT -5
time2shareMessage #2929 - 11/10/10 10:01 PMWall Street Had suggested for the government to invest the Social Security money in stocks .........Well Wall Street Found a way for the the Government to sink Trillions in them after all.....Their PONZI Scheme was falling apart at the seams and then came the Government to the rescue........Well after the Government Sends TRillions to Prop up the Illusion and Fails....WHO WILL HELP THEM OUT? CHINA? NO CHINA IS SINKING THE US BY SECURING MINERAL RIGHTS IN ALL COUNTRIES AHEAD OF THE US ANTICIPATING DEMAND.........WE ARE GOING TO BE AS THE COMMERCIAL SAYS "WORKING FOR THE CHINESE" AND NOW THEY ARE WORKING FOR US to paraphrase the Commercial.........HOW IS YOUR MANDARIN or CANTONESE ? Better buy stock in Rosetta Stone........! The HYPE is all over...and nothing is getting better Unemployment claims dip to 435,000 this week.....That's nothing to talk about it needs to go below 150,000 to even make a dent............4th quarter looks very slow again..Even after a dismal Christmas Season........Optimism has run out.........The sun will always shine but not on many!
DriftrMessage #2930 - 11/10/10 10:04 PMWall Street Had suggested for the government to invest the Social Security money in stocks Sorry but we need all that money buying Treasuries. Without SS picking up the spending tab, we're in deep do-do if we need to get others to buy it.
BGA4444Message #2931 - 11/11/10 12:17 PMGood point Drftr! The other problem- the government has already spent all the SS money. Hell as a matter of fact they have already given that money to Wall. st.! The panel talks of cutting benefits and raising retirement age. How about a knew novel idea for Washington, CUT SPENDING you bunch of idiots!
common_sense.Message #2932 - 11/11/10 01:33 PM[ articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/news.aspx?feed=OBR&date=20101110&id=12381763] Deficit panel targets Social Security and taxes Leaders of a presidential commission proposed raising taxes and the retirement age among bold ideas on Wednesday for slashing the U.S. budget deficit, but faced a difficult task in winning the support of Congress. Bold ideas my a**, the same old stuff. How about we start taxing the hell out of stock market profits? how about we start taxing the hell out of Warren Buffoon and Charlie the Munser? and create tax breaks for those that "invest" in tangible items that produce things. How about we start by closing some of the 700 military bases worldwide? start shrinking the military complex? start shrinking government?
Crying TreeMessage #2933 - 11/11/10 06:06 PMAfter theft of social security money they will take part of your stock and bond investments to pay US dept off. The recession ended in 2009 so what is this? A sign America is sinking into despair? USA lies are falling apart at the sign of the truth showing up. Printing value paper money out of thin air will end up in disaster.
time2shareMessage #2934 - 11/12/10 05:06 PMAs the Market and insiders withdrawal 60 pts Avg. at a time and getting out slowly so not to stir up too much concern the target date for the markets to take a BIG! BIG! BIG! Drop is around December 17th after that the next dive is January 5th - 12th......After more BAD Data about the Holiday shopping season starts to emerge and Unemployment increases again to 9.8%-10.00%....Big perceived discounts will not work this time as double digit increases effect Gas, Bread, Milk, Eggs and All Meats, Core CPI products costing consumers more...The Hype now is the Car segment Ford and GM if Sales do not follow and extend through the summer they will be both in deep trouble......GM will on paper post a profit after it pays off the Government and as Leasing is heavily promoted ....but do not be fooled! Ford and GM will be Bleeding RED by the summer and an early cut in production of 2011 model and shift into early 2012's. As the US Consumer sees QE2 will not working for them, inflation still choking them from all sides and QE2 only working to prop up the banks who are cash Hording and stingy on the borrowing side because having to strengthen reserve positions on Heavy Loan Losses on Credit Cards/Real Estate and Stock in Financials start their devaluations......Tax cuts will expire on December 31st and at the End of January see unemployment rise to 10.00%+ with the Temporary employed being laid off. A downward spiral of Consumer Sentiment and Confidence and along with the Transports Rail revenues/Margins dropping flat. Look at Diesel Consumption in trucking to be the first sign of this drop. Look for inventories to continue to rise in Manufacturing and then more announced lay off....By end of January as a Panic about TAX Season, TAX increase and Liquidating Assets starts to grip the basic economy...Look for increase of Garage Sales...Ebay items......Housing prices to drop another 8%.....and Increase activity of IPOs as more BIG private companies need CASH infusions to continue....Because they will not survive without it......These are not buying opportunities! AGAIN DO NOT BE FOOLED!!! THEY ARE ALL DEAD HORSES!! Some major Travel related meetings and Conventions also declare cancelations due to lack of participation and drops in attendance. Airlines in peak travel days are OK because of reduced flight(s)capacity but will be squeezed due to higher fuel cost......Look for BIG fuel surcharges in Airline, UPS, FEDEX and Trucking as a whole group to effect revenue.
b brown fridayMessage #2935 - 11/12/10 05:55 PMdefense has gotta go, without an economy we are defenseless anyway.
WolfPaw48Message #2936 - 11/12/10 06:27 PMGet all of your money out of the stock market? Take in relatives? Riots in the streets? OK things are not good and yes things could get worse. Things could also get better. OK it's time to take a Xanax and look for potential opportunities with a cool head. Frankly any conservative investor / saver with a well balanced portfolio and a reasonable amount of cash on the sidelines wasn't hurt too much by this downturn. In fact many have spotted opportunities as stocks overshot to the negative side. Example: I bought Ford for $1.89 and bought two new Fords with the proceeds this past spring and fall. Had I listened to the Chicken Littles back in late 2008 I would still be driving my old cars. No offense BGA4444 but you have an extremely negative outlook and offer nothing in terms of real advice that anyone could use. Sure there is corruption in our system and sure everything you say is more or less accurate but don't direct people to hide under a rock in hopes things will magically get better on their own. My advice is observe and look for opportunities as the do nothing chicken littles run away with their heads cut off, then swoop in and claim your stake in their folly. As defined an economic depression is a prolonged period of recession, or a significant and prolonged downturn in the economy. Characteristics of an economic depression include declining business activities, falling prices, rising unemployment, increasing inventories, public fear and panic. People who react like BGA4444 feed the fear and panic and offer nothing positive in return. Yes, things are tough and yes they might get worse, then again they might get better unexpectedly and anyone who has taken his advice to get out of the markets entirely will kick themselves. If you have a plan and you exercise it there is usually never a need to panic. If you have no plan, make one and implement it so you will never have to react like BGA4444. Move in little steps every day so you never have to be a reactionary chicken little doomsayer.
BGA4444Message #2937 - 11/12/10 07:55 PMWow Wolfpaw nice to meet you! Welcome to MT. I have been telling everyone for about nine months now to get every stinking dime they could come up with and put it in the markets. My favorites are cash in Jrs college fund and refi the house to get the cash to jump in. The cash being thrown at the market to keep it up has been nothing short of colossal. If you are telling us the economy is fine and showing good growth with positive long-term growth you are either blind or a snake oil salesman. Sure there is always money to be made in the market going up or down. That is why trailing stops exist for most of us posters. One problem stops do not exist for the average 401K guy he just gets pummeled when it falls. Exactly where would the market be were the treasury and FED dollars suddenly taken out? Just asking? Inflation because of QE1&2 is just about to explode. We will see then if this market is real or fiction. Then we will see if people like you are just pumpers to make a buck!
Crying TreeMessage #2938 - 11/12/10 08:40 PMThe system is broken. Politicians vote themselves raises even if their horrible at their job. Some states have firemen retiring at over $100,000 & officials at $500,000. Who O.K. that? - some moron or educated greedy idiot. It won't work. The grab what you can white collar thieves are back or never left or got caught. Stupid states going broke are their own greedy fault.
WolfPaw48Message #2939 - 11/12/10 09:43 PMBGA4444,, I am a simple, conservative plain old investor. I work, I save, I invest. I win some I lose some and my net gains are always positive. If you want to preach gloom and doom you're preaching to the choir. I am by nature a contrarian. In the late 90's when Clinton / Gore said their "New Economy" had replaced gold and gold would never rise again I bought all I could afford over a 15 month period at $270 to $350 an ounce. When I heard the term "interest only, variable rate mortgage" I knew the housing market was doomed. I focused my efforts on paying off debt and putting what money I had left after my obligations into bank guaranteed instruments bearing 5% or better returns, locking in as long a term as possible. Of course all the while I continued to invest "when it made sense". The trick to winning in the stock market is not being a nimble stock picker with some deep understanding of options. The trick is to invest only what you can afford to lose. Not that you want to lose or ever will lose. There are serious meanings behind age old terms like that one or my old favorite "Buy Low,, Sell High". I would not mortgage my home to invest nor would I raid my child's college fund. The point to investing when it makes sense and only what you can afford to lose is to allow you the luxury of sleeping at night in times like these. People who have something serious at stake tend to panic and do exactly the opposite of Buy Low,, Sell High. I buy only quality companies that pay dividends for the most part and names that will be around 100 years from now long after I am gone. I don't worry about a two, three or even five year time span in terms of the relative strength of my portfolio. This is not something you start today and expect results on tomorrow. This is a philosophy that you live. You may be 1,000 times smarter than I am in picking stocks and calling what the economy is going to do next week or next year. I find specualtion causes confusion and confusion leads to mistakes and mistakes lead to loss. No I am not selling anything nor am I trying to indicate what the markets are going to do in the near term. What I am saying is that if anyone is in a panic at this juncture they have not done a good job of planning for the unexpected. I am as sick as anyone else over the corruption in our financial system and obvious corruption in our government but freaking out and over reacting to it by cashing in my portfolio is certainly not the answer. One has to ask what will be of value when the dust all settles and look for opportunities to buy it low. As far as any inferrence to my pumping anything I will respond that I absolutely love times like this when people who bought at the top sell off for a loss and make prices come to levels where I see value. I am eyeing all catagories of energy for opportunities to get in because the bottom line is we are decades away from any real solar or wind solution and when the economy is running full throttle again (and it will), energy is going nowhere but up. Homes at the moment look very attractive. They are hard assets that have been hit hard and as a wise man once told me "they aren't making any more Real Estate". Gold isn't an asset I would enter into at these levels, nor will I sell any of my holdings at a 500% profit. I want to be confortable and secure and I have worked my plan for 30 years and it has worked in all economic enviroments. When I look at an investment and or my portfolio I try to be 100% emotionless and to do that you cannot have things you don't want to be without at risk. In the end everyone is going to drive cars and everyone is going to live in homes and people are going to wear clothing and eat and yes they will buy things and pay for luxuries. Will things be better next year? I don't know,,, will they be better by 2014? I don't really know. Will they be better eventually? I have no doubt. Instead of saying we have 10% unemployment I like to say we have 90% employment. Do a little research and see what unemployment was back in the "real" depression before you try to sca
WolfPaw48Message #2940 - 11/12/10 09:56 PMI agree with this. Some economists point to the housing market bubble burst of 2007 as the start of a prolonged and severe downturn. The sub prime mortgage debacle, coupled with more and more factories turning overseas for cheap labor, has many worried that the United States is entering a dark economic period. Others, however, see the current economic downturn as merely a typical correction in the free market economy. Only time will tell whether this is a bump in the economic road or a major detour.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:03:58 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2941 - 11/12/10 10:12 PMWolfpaw, congrats on smart investing. I believe all who have money invested should listen to all and make a informed decision. If you look at the original post date of this thread it was about 5 weeks before the bottom. I simply posted a thread on what the economy, market, and my own industry was doing at the time. Except for trillions being poured into the markets ( and making it skyrocket)by the government not much has changed for the better. When the FED and treasury start reeling back in those dollars the price of gold is going to fall like a hot potato, bonds are too and so is the market. Just be ready! Good luck!
schrizoMessage #2942 - 11/12/10 10:38 PMI see all assets getting the same haircut as housing got. All but gold of course. With the lower values of assets come lower wages and with that more interest in hiring and with that recovery. All things shift down and it all becomes relative. I have always made small money so for me there is little to adjust. Unless we get inflation than that small money that I made will suck but wages should go up also. Well, if I live another 30 years I just need money to cover those years. Where's the money going Frank? Is it time to load up on oil??
PoorandUglyMessage #2943 - 11/12/10 11:41 PMI buy only quality companies that pay dividends for the most part and names that will be around 100 years from now long after I am gone. Many of the older generation(s) thought this same logic with companies ranging from General Motors. to Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. Washington Mutual, Lehman Brothers, General Electric (potential blow up going forward) etc... Now where are the majority of these once thought of 100 year stalwarts?? Bankrupt, out of existence where you will find on no exchange if at best only on the pink sheets!!! At one they were commonly considered "quality companies paying dividends every year too." So much for DCAing into that. No I am not selling anything nor am I trying to indicate what the markets are going to do in the near term This is all "fine and dandy" as the Great George Carlin would say. Just don't be coming for another Bailout (and now more QE) like people like you did in 2008. If the bailout mania didn't occur then into 2009, you may have not been on here singing the same tune as you do right now. Many buy and holders were chicken little running around panicking with as if their heads were cut off not knowing what to say or do. So please spare us with the self righteous investment lessons like so many growing numbers on here are tending to do now with growing pompous invincible arrogance and lack of humility. My successes in investments, real estate and everything else, unlike some others, don't necessitate the brandishing of arrogance or at least some bs didactic omniscient instruction in investing, least of which is on these message boards. It is pathetic to see otherwise. And maybe not you, but some others who may be reading this post know who they are. PATHETIC. (For on a message board no less. LMAO.)
Murphy MartinMessage #2944 - 11/13/10 12:22 PMNonsense, some of us are souls from a much higher realm and humans secondly! I won't argue with your theology; we may disagree. My theology has me as a human because that's how God created me; if God had created me higher than a human, I'd be higher than a human, but she didn't, so I'm not. But I won't argue with you if you have a different theology. Free country and all that.
Murphy MartinMessage #2945 - 11/13/10 12:24 PMNow where are the majority of these once thought of 100 year stalwarts?? Bankrupt, out of existence where you will find on no exchange if at best only on the pink sheets!!! That's just wrong. You're lazy, and you can't be bothered to look up the answer to your own question-- SHAME ON YOU for that. The majority are, of course, very much kicking, and in fact the majority are still paying dividends. Companies like McDonalds, Johnson & Johnson, Chevron, Altria, and... well, I'm bored now, so I'll stop typing in more names... are in fact paying higher dividends than they did before the crisis began. Sorry if that goes against your world view, but them's the facts.
PoorandUglyMessage #2946 - 11/13/10 12:46 PMThat's just wrong. You're lazy, and you can't be bothered to look up the answer to your own question-- SHAME ON YOU for that. LMAO. Actually, it is you who are wrong and reading comprehension is fundamental. You seem to be too lazy to do such. SHAME ON YOU FOR THE SPIN. Go back to your spin master for a few more lessons on how you committed that. Sorry if that goes against your world view, but them's the facts. Again with the dogma accusations instead of the real due diligence and understanding of math. Nonsense!!! SHAME ON YOU FOR SUCH. Yeah, Enron had a lot of "facts" too guy. Too bad you are bored because I am so entertained. LMAO.
Murphy MartinMessage #2947 - 11/13/10 12:49 PMLMAO. Actually, it is you who are wrong and reading comprehension is fundamental. You seem to be too lazy to do such. SHAME ON YOU FOR THE SPIN. Go back to your spin master for a few more lessons on how you committed that.
You're still wrong. You didn't dispute a thing I said with a single fact. Fact is, most of the big companies did raise dividends. They didn't go bankrupt. If you claim to disagree with that, you're lying. So I'll give you credit: you're not a liar, which means you don't actually disagree with my statement above. Yeah, Enron had a lot of "facts" too guy. Assuming this isn't beyond your skill set, how 'bout you look up what Enron's dividend was? Was it... $0? And I'm claiming to earn dividends that are... MORE than $0... Do you disbelieve that I'm actually collecting dividends? Does your world view demand that I not be? And if so, how does it accommodate the fact that the dividends actually exist and are, um, gee, wow, how do I put this, GOING UP!? But I'm being unfair. If you're the product of an American education, it's simply not fair of me to expect you to know the difference between "raising dividends" (my claim, and my joy, and my reality) and "going bankrupt" (your claim, and you can have it).
PoorandUglyMessage #2948 - 11/13/10 12:57 PMYou're still wrong. You didn't dispute a thing I said with a single fact. Fact is, most of the big companies did raise dividends. They didn't go bankrupt. If you claim to disagree with that, you're lying. You're the liar. You still haven't disputed my facts yet so I won't bother with any of your fallacious accusations to the contrary. READING IS FUNDAMENTAL. .
PoorandUglyMessage #2949 - 11/13/10 01:01 PMAssuming this isn't beyond your skill set, how 'bout you look up what Enron's dividend was? Was it... $0? And I'm claiming to earn dividends that are... MORE than $0... Do you disbelieve that I'm actually collecting dividends? Does your world view demand that I not be? And if so, how does it accommodate the fact that the dividends actually exist and are, um, gee, wow, how do I put this, GOING UP!?  READING COMPREHENSION IS FUNDAMENTAL. Are you sure I need the education? LMAO. (P.S. - I never said anything about Enron's dividend policy or lack thereof as a point of contention. I will not go through the effort of elucidating you to discussion until you spin back onto pertinent issue brought forth.)
Murphy MartinMessage #2950 - 11/13/10 01:04 PMREADING COMPREHENSION IS FUNDAMENTAL. Are you sure I need the education? LMAO Okay, assuming I'm too stupid to merit the dividends I keep, in fact, earning from the companies you think went bankrupt... please kindly explain precisely where I went wrong in my reading comprehension.
PoorandUglyMessage #2951 - 11/13/10 01:11 PMOkay, assuming I'm too stupid to merit the dividends I keep, in fact, earning from the companies you think went bankrupt... please kindly explain precisely where I went wrong in my reading comprehension. You came with guns blazing accusing me of being a liar etc. Hence, your reckless arrogance and lack of humility in doing such cost you an explanation from me. It is not worth it. Although the entertainment alone on here is well worth the price of admission. AND THAT PAYS DIVIDENDS!!!!!!! LMAO.
DUSTYCATMessage #2952 - 11/13/10 02:02 PMbecome a better lair yah yah stop buying things that are not worth the paper its printed on save. keep your eyes open wipe out the wall street funkies.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:04:50 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2953 - 11/13/10 04:30 PMDamn, I am just entertained at you two! You two are certainly carrying around a couple of thick melons!LOL
Crying TreeMessage #2954 - 11/13/10 04:42 PMIt is so bad today that children are sent out to steal. Two young girls -10-11 went through our neighbor hood and sold items for the school or so they said. They got about thirty people for $20.00. Nice take but my wife is angry. You can't even trust the kids. They disconnected their phone and left.
BGA4444Message #2955 - 11/13/10 05:26 PMCrying, I had a similar thing happen to me. Single mom down the street with a young son just trying to survive. He was selling some cookies for school and I ordered about $20 worth. She came up to me in tears saying she was so sorry she had used the money for food and could not come up with the money to order from the school. I and many others told her not to worry about paying us back. A very sad story! I live in a small sub div. in North Atlanta about 50 homes. In the last two years about 10 have been foreclosed on. Including the single mom! I believe that is a 20% foreclose rate. Really scary prices are still falling!
Crying TreeMessage #2956 - 11/13/10 06:06 PMThings are worst than the government lets on. The guy next-door is on welfare living in a new home. He got a job at the tire store. Then quit after a week. He said he does better on welfare with the rent paid, free medical, food stamps, clothing chits. He even gets a credit welfare card he charges on. 
Murphy MartinMessage #2957 - 11/14/10 11:56 AMYou didn't actually answer my question, dude. Maybe you didn't understand it. Funny... I typed it REALLY slowly for your benefit. You came with guns blazing accusing me of being a liar etc. I stated very clearly that you are NOT a liar. That's an exact quotation: "you are not a liar". (And it's still there, so you can go back and look). I say the big companies are increasing dividends; you reply (I paraphrase) "Oh yeah? haven't you heard of Enron?" I still say the big companies are increasing dividends, and Enron is irrelevant (they didn't, actually, have "the facts"); and you think this means I don't comprehend what you've said. Is that about it? But I'll agree to disagree with you: you can have your world in which "the majority" of investments become worthless; I'll keep mine in which the dividends keep rolling in. I like mine better, and even if I'm too stupid to agree with your claim that the "majority" of the "100 year stalwarts" are "bankrupt", I can comfortably live in the alternate reality in which they AREN'T bankrupt, and still pay real dividends... which I actually do receive, because I choose to and I can. You should go and do likewise.  I repeat (and I'm typing even MORE slowly this time): "you are not a liar". Get it?
Murphy MartinMessage #2959 - 11/14/10 12:02 PMHe said he does better on welfare with the rent paid, free medical, food stamps, clothing chits. This is an interesting point. Welfare actually pays a pretty small amount that I wouldn't dream of trying to live on. It's really sad that there are some jobs out there that pay even less than THAT.
Murphy MartinMessage #2960 - 11/14/10 12:04 PMDamn, I am just entertained at you two! You two are certainly carrying around a couple of thick melons!LOL To be fair, I was intoxicated for many of my posts. (If the time of my posts makes this seem strange, then I should point out I'm typing from China, which is 13 hours ahead of New York). But intoxication only explains my tone; it doesn't change the reality that the dividends keep rolling in and I find it pretty funny that anyone thinks "Oh, yeah? ENRON!" is somehow a threat to the ever-increasing dividends that the big companies do, in fact, keep paying.
Oakash2Message #2961 - 11/14/10 01:59 PM Wolfpaw, I copied your post ( # 2339 ) for myself and I will send it to both my father ( age 85 ) and my daughter ( age 30 ). There is a lot of wisdom in your words. I think very similarly to you.
lawfoxMessage #2962 - 11/14/10 04:57 PMHere in Silicon Valley, local governments have raised every sort of fee on businesses. In Sunnyvale, there is a $25.00+ processing fee tacked onto the business license and the fee is for two years. They raised utilities by 10% and cut service. Then, the City Council waived permit fees ($3500.00)for a parade that few citizens attended. This is a local government out-of-touch with the citizens who are struggling to make ends meet. Local public safety officers are paid nearly $250,000.00 annually. Other positions are paid more than in the private sector with an earlier retirement, with full benefits, date. Statewide, simple traffic tickets carry a fine matching some mortgage payments. A local traffic court generates $500,000 in fines daily. And people must take time off from work to attend the hearings. Typically, more than 100 cases are scheduled in each traffic department. Meanwhile unemployment hovers around 14%. Empty commercial buildings and the skeletons of halted construction projects are everywhere. Service and manufacturing jobs have permanently left for cheaper labor abroad. Good Luck.
rjslrsMessage #2963 - 11/15/10 01:01 AMIllinois hasn't completely reimbursed our school for last year........no reimbursement for this year,yet.....and we are closing in on the halfway point for this year.
schrizoMessage #2964 - 11/15/10 01:32 AMWell we are busy as hell here in the midwest. I hope it spreads west. We will have to invent ourselves into recovery. If the wealth becomes more concentrated than heavy taxes on the wealth need to be a part of the recovery. Regular folk are making sacrifices so should the rich. Government needs to work with less help and the post offices need to operate 3 or 4 days a week. It all adjusts downward to get people off welfare and working again.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:05:43 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #2965 - 11/15/10 02:25 AMWild ride coming in stocks? More stimulus money or is it going elsewhere? Change is in the air. Trouble is everywhere. All countries. Maybe Christmas on the high end will be profitable but on the middle & bottom will be much less. As rich & poor divide the countries eek out trade agreements. Shuffle & Cut. A new hand to play.
PoorandUglyMessage #2966 - 11/15/10 01:55 PMYou didn't actually answer my question, dude. Maybe you didn't understand it. Funny... I typed it REALLY slowly for your benefit. I can't be any more clear why I didn't. And that is funny in its own right. Either that or maybe you should just STOP THE SPIN! IT IS YOU WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND. But keep typing guy, keep typing, fast or slow I don't care. Enlightenment is for your benefit but you are too myopic to objectively see such. I stated very clearly that you are NOT a liar. That's an exact quotation: "you are not a liar". (And it's still there, so you can go back and look). No first you accused me of being lazy. You don't deserve any refutation of an explanation because of your arrogant presumptuous accusations because of such, DUDE. I say the big companies are increasing dividends; you reply (I paraphrase) "Oh yeah? haven't you heard of Enron?" I still say the big companies are increasing dividends, and Enron is irrelevant (they didn't, actually, have "the facts"); and you think this means I don't comprehend what you've said. Is that about it? Again you are hopeless. You don't know how to comprehend. And I have no interest in explaining or enlightening you whatsoever. When someone says "Agree to disagree" as you did in quote below, I know to watch out and all the more not dare elucidating such a person, LMAO. But I'll agree to disagree with you: you can have your world in which "the majority" of investments become worthless; I'll keep mine in which the dividends keep rolling in. I like mine better, and even if I'm too stupid to agree with your claim that the "majority" of the "100 year stalwarts" are "bankrupt", I can comfortably live in the alternate reality in which they AREN'T bankrupt, and still pay real dividends... which I actually do receive, because I choose to and I can. You should go and do likewise. I repeat (and I'm typing even MORE slowly this time): "you are not a liar". Get it? You say "I like mine better" and "you can have your world etc..." ABSURD. Gee, reverting back to Kindergarten and childhood are powerful emotions INDEED. LMAO. So sad though too. And all the more telling that you still don't get it. Either you are the one thick in the head or you are just adept at keeping up the spin. Keep trying to figure it out though. Either way, that does NOT PAY DIVIDENDS. Don't you worry though. In time, I am sure there will be another bailout for that. GET IT, GOT IT, GOOD. LMAO.
Crying TreeMessage #2967 - 11/16/10 02:03 AMTonight on the news they were talking about the new tax structure. They said the middle class was up to $1,000,000 a year. The middle class has been paying & paying for the rich & poor for years & years. Most have gone broke. Theirs not much left to get from them - Money is where it is and the rich took too much. Tax payers get to pay for big bonus for banks & AIG's lavish vacations. The same people who ruined the financial health of our country. Wages cut by 50% today leaves the tax burden to those who have it all.
PoorandUglyMessage #2968 - 11/16/10 01:53 PMTonight on the news they were talking about the new tax structure. They said the middle class was up to $1,000,000 a year. The middle class has been paying & paying for the rich & poor for years & years. Most have gone broke. Theirs not much left to get from them - Money is where it is and the rich took too much. Tax payers get to pay for big bonus for banks & AIG's lavish vacations. The same people who ruined the financial health of our country. Wages cut by 50% today leaves the tax burden to those who have it all. Yet, the same culprits via propaganda through the media etc. have the temerity to accuse you of class warfare! Can you beat that! Hilarious but disgusting at the same time. Just another reason why scum should not be bailed out. You heal a snake, you are likely to get bitten again! Unfortunately, many are getting killed!!! It is called SUICIDE, but that is not reported of course in the media.
time2shareMessage #2969 - 11/16/10 06:35 PMMy # 2906 post was DEAD ON!...RIGHT, USA ONE? Look at what's happening now! You can't say I gave you enough warning! AND exactly QE2 is not working and will not work! Europe is on its knees again and will be an anchor around every body's neck including the US. As these positions start to unravel. Look at a bigger dip! The BRAKES came on today at -180 and curved a deeper dive.....look for the 60-80 pt. on AVG. daily drop to continue.........THIS Bubble may pop or deflate slowly as it is doing now, but just not yet look for the December 15-18th as the golden window day for the BIG BURST to happen. The next golden window big drop is in the January 11-15 time frame. GET OUT NOW WHILE YOU CAN!!!! CASH IT ALL IN !!! DO not play their game..The fleecing has started again.....You need the fur and the cash for the winter! The greatest depression ever has turned into the greatest deception ever! Europe's PONZI SCHEME is also falling apart! Instead of concentrating on JOBS they throw more money at the Banks...WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE? INFLATION WILL RISE FAST so be ready! for more lay off's and higher taxes, operating costs and prices all over! Dives in consumer spending will occur and the economy will freeze and stagnates at .5 - 1.0% GDP. DOUBLE RECESSION ANYONE? WE NEVER GOT OUT OF THIS RECESSION.......IN MOST PARTS OF THE COUNTRY!
Crying TreeMessage #2970 - 11/16/10 06:53 PMDeception is an interesting word. Wal Mart is packed and so is Costco. Lots of people driving around burning gas. Most new jobs do not pay much or last that long. In 2009 when the recession ended their was a surge in employment. It turned out to be mostly temporary employment. Some people who gave up $500 a week benefits to go back to work got less when the job ran out. $500 to $350 a week on the new calculation for lower pay. Didn't look or try and you would be getting the $500. $12.50 is $500 a week gross. China and the oil companies have control of a lot of our finances & economy. It seems a world adjustment is going on to see who gets what in commerce & position of standing in world money. Bumpy ride ahead and their is no guarantee of winning anything.
PoorandUglyMessage #2971 - 11/16/10 07:07 PMChina and the oil companies have control of a lot of our finances & economy. It seems a world adjustment is going on to see who gets what in commerce & position of standing in world money. Bumpy ride ahead and their is no guarantee of winning anything A clash of rising creditor based standard of living in East is meeting with a declining debtor based standard of living in the West. I summed up in one sentence what shysters and propagandists promote in trying to sell their latest books when appearing on the media docket. Boy am I an ass!!!!!!!!!! LMAO.
tr6manMessage #2972 - 11/16/10 09:27 PMPlease up date your most recent comment 1/31/09???
Crying TreeMessage #2973 - 11/17/10 03:14 AMMuggings are up on the west coast. They want purses and wallets. We even had a car jacking here today at gunpoint. They ditched the car and kept the mans wallet. It is not a good idea to carry your social security card with you in these times.
schrizoMessage #2974 - 11/17/10 04:26 AMCities are jungles Glad I am in the midwest now. It does not suck like that here. Warren Buffett still eats at the Dairy Queen and drives his old asx around. Leaves his doors unlocked.
Crying TreeMessage #2975 - 11/17/10 05:17 AMOmaha, Nebraska with unemployment in the 4% range isn't exactly the norm today. This is a city of 80,000, not a L.A. or Seattle. Most comments here were he could beg out front Wal Mart with others and make more money. The guy who was car jacked said the car jacker threw him to the ground and said he wasn't going to shoot him. He thought he was dead for sure when he handed over his wallet.
Maestro 101Message #2976 - 11/17/10 05:27 AMschrizo, sounds like you're from Omaha Ne. Is that correct? Not everything is peachy keen here either as you proclaim. Unfortunately, I'm from here, and I see the same old same old as before the recession only with higher taxes and lower wages.......... The three multi-billionaires and millionaires that live here are the exceptions to the rule........ The "Oracle of Omaha" is a tight-a$$ through thick and thin!
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:06:35 GMT -5
schrizoMessage #2977 - 11/17/10 11:32 AMNot peachy keen, but not like the stories from the E and the W. And with 4% you can work if you want. The taxes bite and there are many other problems. But in many ways, the recession has been a non event for us. I have heard some say because of the internet infrastructure put in the place for Offutt air base we are the hub for many internet based companies. That has been the big advantage over other cities. Add in agriculture and you have a working economy.
PoorandUglyMessage #2978 - 11/17/10 01:21 PMThe "Oracle of Omaha" is a tight-a$$ through thick and thin! He is also a spinmaster too. He was on Bubblevision earlier selling AGAIN the Bailout Mania of 2008 and how Uncle Ben, Bush, Paulson etc. were HEROES. I thought of him better only a few years ago but he is part of the system. Remember how he got that sweetheart deal with Government Sux warrants? To be fair, he did speak up about how the uber rich need to fork over more in taxes. I concur with that.
PoorandUglyMessage #2979 - 11/17/10 02:08 PMBuffett also said if bailout mania didn't happen in 2008, he would be eating at McDonald's instead of turkey dinner on thanksgiving. He should only be so lucky. GEEE, and tell that to the growing swarm of Americans who won't have anything let alone McDonald's or anything come thanksgiving night, having no help whatsoever from bailout mania for them, but really for the benefit of the high rollers. He also keeps saying how 2008 was an economic pearl harbor and the fascists of Paulson, Bush etc.. were the heroes in that "attack". The bs just gets better and better. Can you imagine how the power of T.V. propaganda would have all the more effected things of the late 30's and 40's during that day??? To be sure, the power of that tool would have all the more been levered up by those with their agenda if you get my drift. Hence, thank god that invention was not in the reach of the public masses back then. Think about it.
great depression1Message #2980 - 11/17/10 02:33 PMThe worse is yet to come!
WolfPaw48Message #2981 - 11/17/10 03:18 PMBGA444, Yes I just noted the date the thread started. Ultimately I am clueless about the future. Recent news has reiterated one simple fact to me. The entire world economy is based on debt as opposed to actual wealth or hard assets. I am just thankful to still be employed and that there seems to be ample supply of food and water to feed the world population. If we were dealing with a government controlled world wide shortage of food, image the government starving the little guy to feed those too big to fail. Ah dreadful thought.
PoorandUglyMessage #2982 - 11/17/10 04:28 PM If we were dealing with a government controlled world wide shortage of food, image the government starving the little guy to feed those too big to fail. Ah dreadful thought. Yeah I can see it now - Government Sux and the other Wall Street firms taking over many farms in the US to feed themselves first and foremost before selling a drop to others. And then when they do, it surely will be at a pretty penny. And the then current President would, due to his bs press conference, advocate rationing while he and his Wall Street team are having feasts in their backrooms.
schrizoMessage #2983 - 11/17/10 05:13 PMno way the rich would grow food, even for themselves. might break a fingernail.
BGA4444Message #2984 - 11/17/10 05:43 PMHey the shooting of the publicist in Beverly Hills is such a random act of violence, that I am concerned that her driving a Mercedes may have been the cause. She according to reports was well liked and had no enemies. Also here in Atlanta random acts of violence are being reported daily- home invasions, murders, and robberies are way up. A store close to downtown Woodstock, Ga. was broken into and the cigarettes and beer was wiped out. Security lines cut, cameras broken, they must have been in there for hours! The rich might wish they had given a little more if this trend continues. I heard Neal Boortz ( my favorite ) report the other day that the tax cuts means 800 billion to the over 250,000 a year crowd while about three trillion to the less than 250K crowd. If that is true the rich who have 75% of the money pay 21% of the taxes, while the less than 250K crowd have 25% of the money and pay 79% of the taxes. If that is true no wonder hell is about to break loose!
hvfpaintsMessage #2985 - 11/17/10 06:02 PMI think people are starting to lose it a bit. Those with jobs are struggling to do their jobs and those laid off, and those laid off are facing their unemployment benefits ending. Businesses supposidly are doing better, but when you speak to small business owners, that doesn't seem to be the case. How's the flooring business? Sorry to hear about the health benefit being cancelled. I figure if Obamacare goes forward, that will become more common 
BGA4444Message #2986 - 11/17/10 06:23 PMhvf, thanks for the concern. I really appreciate it. The flooring business- well it is really bad. October is supposed to be our largest sales month of the year. Folks getting the house ready for the holidays. This year is the worst october I have ever seen. It ended up being one of our slowest months of the year. November is no better. I heard the flooring industry was off 30% in October. They are now laying people off almost monthly. Beaulieu who is one of the big three carpet makers made everyone take a 10% pay cut recently. It is not improving it is getting worse. I do not care what the idiots on Wall st. or these boards say I am out here living it each day. Things are terrible and getting worse. But I wish all the sunshine pumpers were right. Hell I would just like to see the downward trends flatten out. If that were happening I would say it. Good luck hvf thanks again for the concern. BGA4444- "Hanging on by a thread in Atlanta"
CnihtMessage #2987 - 11/17/10 06:41 PM no way the rich would grow food, even for themselves. might break a fingernail. You're correct. That's why they import Mexicans. They need a permanent underclass to do that for them.
PoorandUglyMessage #2988 - 11/17/10 08:12 PMThat's why they import Mexicans. They need a permanent underclass to do that for them. That's why I don't blame the illegal aliens who are already here let alone growing going forward. They are a symptom of the problem. The government should enforce the law and punish the Meg Whitmans of the world and all American corporations and their rich brethren who hire illegals in the first place. Just like with supply of drugs, it is the demand side that needs to be dealt with. If there is no demand, then supply will take care of itself. If no American corporations and our government don't illegally hire and give jobs and benefits to illegals who come here, then there will be no reason for them to continually come here.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:07:28 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #2989 - 11/17/10 09:07 PMBuy A Truck And Get An AK47 [ www.buy-and-sell-cars-for-profit.com/blog/296/buy-truck-get-ak47/]  Buy a truck and get an AK47? Huh?! I·m not kidding! This car dealer from the midwest offered an incentive to anyone that buys one of his trucks where they would get a voucher for a free AK47. Was this controversial
schrizoMessage #2990 - 11/18/10 12:44 AMThats going on in Omaha. Not sure if it is an AK-47 but it is guns for sure. They are selling a lot of cars because of it.
Crying TreeMessage #2991 - 11/18/10 04:26 AMDon't tell decoy409. He may want several new trucks. Just incase he is right about everything. Frank the impaler - Mr. Sunshine - Probably sailing around in his yacht communicating via satellite with his  in hand.
Maestro 101Message #2992 - 11/18/10 05:16 AMschrizo, what internet companies? The only ones that I know of are PayPal and Yahoo! And they are only "call centers" like all the others in and around Omaha...... As far as the underground telecommunications infrastructure at Offutt is concerned, it was put in during the early stages of the Cold War when the Strategic Air Command was headquartered right here in Bellevue. As a result of that, later on, during the 70's and 80's when private enterprise started exploiting the value of declassified networking lines, that telemarketing companies sprung-up overnite here in Omaha. This town was and still is known as the "telemarketing capital of the world"....... I agree with you on jobs, there are a few, if you want to work for peanuts in call centers here......
Crying TreeMessage #2993 - 11/18/10 05:54 AMTell those guys to stop calling my phone. My number is unlisted and their search computers find out good numbers. If you answer one of those calls you get on everyone's hit list. Their over using the networks. Tax them and pay off the deficit. Some people put - you reached a disconnected number recording on their answer machines. Some use different song for different callers. Certain tunes you pick up and others you don't. Tricky - Tricky world.
Stay PutMessage #2994 - 11/18/10 06:28 AMUnfortunately many millions of Americans (for the first time) are going to be having a "Jack Frost" Christmas this year, and tens of millions will be having one by next Christmas. I spoke of this outcome in a previous post, but if any are not aware of what I am referring to, please take the movie out at your local library. It's one of those late 1960's to early 1970's clay-mation holiday films. In the movie, Jack Frost is turned into a human, and joins a poor family in a community being oppressed by a greedy tyrant named Kublai Kahn (of the Cossacks'). At Christmas, this one poor family all sit around their empty dining table and pass around one ribbon decorated box. Each family member receiving the box, in turn, will open it and joyfully proclaim that, "it's just what I always wanted", before passing the box to the next family member. Of course the box is completely empty, holding nothing but their simple dreams of what Christmas present they always wanted. It's bad out there, and it's only going to get worse for a very long time. End of days? Hardly. End of Prosperity? Yes, for most over the next decade. Is it the end of Hope? It doesn't have to be, nor do I think it will be. Most Americans will be forced to go back to their core values. I believe that church and synagogue enrollments will meet all time record levels. Communities, along with their houses of worship will pull together to get through the tough times ahead. Keeping up with the Jones' will be about meeting the basic needs of family, as opposed to the "stuff" that we have accumulated. Gardens will have more value that Gucci. People will actually realize the value and start to get to know all of the families on their whole street/block, as opposed to just the neighbor next door or across the street. Am I calling for or proclaiming that we will all live like the "Walton's"? No All that I am saying, is that when the economic rug is completely pulled out from under us all, we will become dependent upon each other to get through the tough times ahead. I also believe that there will be pockets of unrest initiated by the Communists.....er, I mean Progressives. The real hypocrisy of that truly minority group of individuals, is that a Progressive will "capitalize" on any type of emergency to try to replace our Constitutional form of government with a Communist one. We Americans, however, have just shown in the past election that we will never allow that to happen. We out number them by hundreds of thousands to one. They do not stand a chance.
LostOnEarthMessage #2995 - 11/18/10 10:53 AMThe worst is yet to come! No one listened to me 15 years ago, when I predicted this and showed them all the proof and signs back then (trade deficits and job outsourcing being the 2 strongest indicators of a total economic crash), and not many are listening now. When you want to listen and learn from me about how true economics should work, please leave all those rose colored glasses, spin doctors, blinders, kool aid and kookoo puffs at the front entrance. Good day, good luck and God bless!
common_sense.Message #2996 - 11/18/10 11:21 AMNo one listened to me 15 years ago I couldn't agree more. Factory after factory kept shutting down, outsource after source and yet the party kept going. You want to see why they didn't listen? Find 1995 on the chart, and you will see why Ben is trying hard to melt the market up 
common_sense.Message #2997 - 11/18/10 11:30 AMWe were already feeling the effects of job losses and defecits by 2001. That's when Greenspan started to unleash the credit and the housing bubble began. Is there really going to be a recovery even if Ben melts the market to 20,000? No real jobs - no real recovery!
schrizoMessage #2998 - 11/18/10 11:35 AMMaestro-First Data is another one and perhaps not as many as I exaggerated. As I understand the city has the fiber optic infrastructure equivalent of a major interstate highway which provides some advantage for internet use. And of course Offutt is still reason to have a super optic highway to protect us from ourselves. The wages have always been less here do to the influx of farm kids wanting off the fields over the years. It seems better here than elsewhere for sure.
BGA4444Message #2999 - 11/18/10 02:38 PMYou know I have been working since I was 12. I have been a manager for about 30 of the 39 or so years I have worked. I have never seen money thrown at a problem that ever solved it. Americans do not need money thrown at them. They need jobs. They need jobs that pay well or the training to get jobs that pay well. I thought somebody in Washington might figure this out sooner or later. It looks like later. It use to be the man is trying to keep the blackman down. Now it is "The Man" (who ever he is?) is trying to keep the American man down. The dummying down of America. Schools are where students go to get a education. These liberal communist jerks have infiltrated government to the point that school is about freedom of speech and being your own person. Bull, they need to put all students in uniforms and get the druggies and class disrupters in military school so they can learn some discipline! If you are not there to learn get the hell out! We have got to change the way we think or we will all be speaking Chinese or Hindu very soon. America is about to be the second GDP country and we are to blame. Said by a famous General We have found the enemy and it is us! I agree.
Stay PutMessage #3000 - 11/18/10 03:03 PMIt seems better here than elsewhere for sure. That's funny. That's exactly what the last two domino's said to each other as they watched the first ones falling. The worlds economies are tied together. That means our economy too. Unless we immediately tear away from the One World Economy, and this constant push for the One World Order/Government, what is currently happening across Europe/Asia "IS" going to happen here as well. Watch what happens when the U.S. debt comes due this spring.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:08:20 GMT -5
schrizoMessage #3001 - 11/18/10 03:34 PMStay Put-sounds like you would like to live under tyranny.
Stay PutMessage #3002 - 11/18/10 03:42 PMStay Put-sounds like you would like to live under tyranny. You obviously didn't understand my post. I have continuously been pushing for our country to go back to a 100% Constitutional government. Not what we have now, and not a One World Government/Economy.
Crying TreeMessage #3003 - 11/18/10 04:04 PMI have been persecuted most my life for being white. Denied promotions at work and set backs in just about everything because of being white. I don't even think whites are a majority. Race discrimination for whites has been here over a generation. Fair is not part of our government. Save the blacks, save the hispanics, save the illegal immigrants and let the rest go down. No wonder this place is in trouble.
schrizoMessage #3004 - 11/18/10 09:10 PMmy wife went through the same things as you. she was pissed off also. reverse discrimination is intolerable.
time2shareMessage #3005 - 11/18/10 09:45 PMI hope you did not get caught with today's GM euphoria! The Market nabbed a lot of suckers bent on getting brain washed by the Media and GM and the U.S. which had the most to lose.......Saving face was Obama's first priority and holding the conference after the markets closed. Did America make money? NO! The stock would have to get to 70 for the US to break even.....The US Treasury is still holding THIRTY ONE MILLION + Shares and as GM started dropping the Markets were in the spot light today and rallied around the flag pole.....Wait until tomorrow that flag will be at half mast! GM is SUNK AND THEY ALL KNOW IT!!!! What a Media Circus with HYPE taking Center RING.........!!!!!Look at reality to set back in and continue the downward trend as the real impact of the revised unemployment figure last week was up 2,000 to 437,000 and this week was up another 2,000 to 439,000. The government keeps playing the shell game leaving out those who have "Stopped looking" from the true unemployment rate...WHAT A JOKE!!!! Obama's spin crew are scared to say the truth about the unemployed and their prospects.... WE ARE LIVING A LIE and the stories are so convoluted it is like living in a house of smoke and mirrors with no way out!
DriftrMessage #3006 - 11/18/10 09:50 PMThe stock would have to get to 70 for the US to break even Where'd you see that? I could have sworn 42 was the break-even.
usa oneMessage #3007 - 11/18/10 09:55 PMGM is in good shape. Some of you guys just make stuff up. 42 or 43 is the break even point. We will get our money back. We already have gotten some.
DriftrMessage #3008 - 11/18/10 09:59 PMI'm sure it was 42. Did you know that's also the answer to life the universe and everything? Coincidence or conspiracy? Let's see if Jesse does a show on it...
PoorandUglyMessage #3009 - 11/18/10 10:01 PMmy wife went through the same things as you. she was pissed off also. reverse discrimination is intolerable. Don't you just love AFFIRMATIVE ACTION??? Talk about the notion: "2 wrongs don't make a right." You aint kidding!! LMAO. A shining example of letting actual skills and talent etc.. speak for themselves regardless of race/creed etc.. composition is no better displayed than in the NBA!! Gee, why do we not have a problem with NBA teams which are 95% + black??? Should we push and regulate for more white men to be on the basketball teams too??? How about the fire department??? There are not enough Asian men in there. Seems unfair no?? Seems so according the logic of reverse discrimination I guess. And if we don't have problems with that, so why not anything else all in the attempt of striving for doing the job RIGHT AND FOR EXCELLENCE period??? God given skills and talents and intelligence etc.. should go naturally to where they are best served. Should we try to fill a quota so a petite Asian woman is recruited into the fire department too?? And it goes on and on and on.
schrizoMessage #3010 - 11/18/10 11:26 PMso many of our skills and work ethics are learned first at home and then from a mentor. I did learn to work hard until I worked for a French Chef. He was going to fire me for being so slow. I had a pregnant wife so I peeled carrots faster. Ever since then I worked hard because I knew how. Many of people whom are discriminated against never learned to work. You give people a chance, you tell them what you expect and then you work side by side pushing as hard as you can and then they either like it and they become a respected employee or, someone who needs to go elsewhere. But, you have to give them an opportunity to learn how to work and gain an appreciation for the value of doing it. Affirmative action opened a lot of doors for those whom would never have them opened. Nasty people are nasty people and putting a color to that is something to fight against. It is no secret that minorities are fearful of their own, so they are exposed to the nastiness toward themselves. We have a problem and no one has an answer. But in your own life you can make an effort to give a kid a chance, white, black or red. Teach them how to work.
schrizoMessage #3011 - 11/18/10 11:32 PMAnd also, I have been cheated out of promotions for reasons other than color. Somebody knows someone and you have better qualifications but you lose. Not fair either. Its not all about race.
PoorandUglyMessage #3012 - 11/18/10 11:41 PMNot fair either. Its not all about race. Right. But maybe I wasn't clear or all encompassing to include ALL BIAS as part of playing a role in discrimination and its reverse. Again 2 wrongs don't make a right. Whatever the reason, whether someone just doesn't like the person etc.., it is all discrimination not having anything to do with the demands for getting the job done successfully. Moreover, I am at fault in previous post for not including HARD WORK along with talent, skills, etc..So lets take the NBA example again. I am a white person but I know no matter how hard I work at it trying to become an NBA player, I will never be able to get on the team still because all the needed "ingredients" are not there and hence do not deserve a real place on the team. Because at the end of the day, I, for one or many of the aforementioned reasons, cannot provide the "excellence" needed for the job at hand no matter how much hard work I put forth. It is just a fact of life. Remember the movie "Rudy' Should the football coach put more short people on the team eventhough they work hard?? No, not necessarily. It doesn't work like that. Nor should it. Believe me, I think hard work is extremely important too. As a matter of fact, hard work is underrated in this country imho. I believe hard work in this country does NOT pay off as much, in general, as it used to. it is how you are connected etc..Very sad and makes me angry for sure. So I agree on opportunity and hard work etc. but it still shouldn't be at someone else's expense for just this particular knit picking factor or that. Like I said, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:09:13 GMT -5
schrizoMessage #3013 - 11/19/10 01:04 AMAll I can tell you is there was black women who worked for me and some customers would not take change from her hand. Make no mistake being white is an advantage (usually.) Even as a boss I would rather hire a good looking women than a homely old hag for purely selfish reason. If you could trade your race for a job would you?? Most likely you will know that being white carries some advantage in any culture. I understand the double standard but I think most people don't see we are all racist at one level or another. I accept that part of me but I fight against it. In one hundred years you will have to look hard to find a white man. Its one world now. I don't disagree with you by the way and I understand Crying Tree also. We all think the way we do based on our experience. I've had some terrible encounters myself and some good ones. Now, lets make some money.
Crying TreeMessage #3014 - 11/19/10 01:42 AMLet's make money. Cheaters never prosper and crime doesn't pay. I think cheater do prosper and crime dose pay if you don't get caught.. Just an observance from a honest person.
schrizoMessage #3015 - 11/19/10 02:36 AMDo you remember when there were people that would not buy tobacco stocks for moral reason?? It is really hard to know what is clean anymore. I think living in a world of "spin" has made things unclear. It is so easy to just accept what we hear on the evening news and each station says the same thing so it becomes consistent ,then believable. You remember Jimmy Carter the peanut farmer?? People hated him for many reasons but I think he was straight out honest (its all relative.) And under his leadership they lowered a national speed limit to 55 to save fuel. We built smaller cars for the first time. And people put on sweaters instead of bumping up the heater. We hated him. Not me. He was very successful at introducing us to our future. Then oil became plentiful again and it we all drove SUV's at 75 mph. We could waste again.
deepinMessage #3016 - 11/19/10 03:34 AMI am old enough to remember THE DEPRESSION. This feels and smells like with one exception, in THE DEPRESSION, most banks closed and mos depositers lost their savings. In this one, we saved the banks. But in all other respects everything else is the same. I lived in a tenement area and it was not unusual to see household furnishings lining the sidewalks in front of their previous residence. The renters could not make the $15 per month rent for a four room apartment. There was a period of two or three years during which my father worked no more than six months. No unemployment insurance.
schrizoMessage #3017 - 11/19/10 04:35 AMthat makes these days seem tolerable. That seemed like a true memory and not one exaggerated. Thanks for sharing that.
Maestro 101Message #3018 - 11/19/10 04:39 AMThat's for sure! Last night I was looking at the Asian markets and they all were up for the session. This morning, guess what? Wall St. was way up on what??? Speculation! Same damn thing on Tuesday only in reverse. You can set your watch by it. Market manipulation courtesy by the Fed............
Crying TreeMessage #3019 - 11/19/10 04:44 AMI remember on tv advertisements where three out of 4 doctors smoked chesterfields. Eat margarine not butter commercials. As far as the first depression goes I worked for a man & wife who said they worked all day for a small bag of beans. This is sort of a rich man's depression compared to that one.
Stay PutMessage #3020 - 11/19/10 04:52 AMI understand the double standard but I think most people don't see we are all racist at one level or another. I think that racism has been over discussed. I also know that it can play no positive part in a nation about to go broke. It can also play no productive part in solving the multitude of real problems that our nation faces now, and will face in the depths of Depression II. I will also wager that those "customers" that you say would not accept change from the hand of your black employee will quickly change their attitude when every penny actually does count. I do not look at myself as a Scottish-American, but rather just an American. When more people are forced to start identifying themselves as just Americans, we will be a much better country for it. If we get at least that much good out of Depression II, it will not have been a total disaster. IMHO
Maestro 101Message #3021 - 11/19/10 05:03 AMThe "Worst Depression" was way before my time, but I remember my grandparents telling me there was no 'FDIC' insurance back then when the banks closed, so most everybody lost their entire savings. Both my grandparents were farmers during the dust bowl years. Those definitely were "NOT" the good old days!!
PoorandUglyMessage #3022 - 11/19/10 11:42 AMAll I can tell you is there was black women who worked for me and some customers would not take change from her hand. Of course this is wrong. But this is not the issue. And nothing justifies "balancing" it out elsewhere. My point is that whatever the task at hand whether playing in the NBA or whether being a member of Congress for that matter should be strictly checked off ONLY against the demands of the job, and NOT based on superficial or socially biased factors like race, creed, background etc.. . In fact, in Congress, being white and from an IVY LEAGUE university are the "union" cards of membership there. And that is wrong too and you can see how harmful it has been to this country over time of course. Maybe this country would have been better off if Congress was filled with truly more intelligently, selfless people from modest backgrounds representing America instead of Ivy League selfishly greedy obtuse scum. Or maybe a truly intelligent non-elitist from some regular school more familiar with business and life could have done a better job than this disgrace of an Ivy League Princeton ivory tower academic who currently runs the Fed for that matter. I know we have exhausted this to death now. This is how I feel. And don't look at me. Blame whoever initially brought this issue up. And that was NOT me.
Murphy MartinMessage #3023 - 11/19/10 11:59 AMEither way, that does NOT PAY DIVIDENDS. Sorry, poorandugly: here's where it doesn't matter whether we agree, disagree, or agree to disagree. I'm collecting dividends, full stop. They keep going up, full stop. I propose a division of labor: you whine, you accuse me of not understanding your posts even when you clearly don't actually answer the questions, and I accept it with a smile. Me, I keep collecting dividends. You say "I like mine better" and "you can have your world etc..." ABSURD. Gee, reverting back to Kindergarten and childhood are powerful emotions INDEED. LMAO. So sad though too. I'm not sad (actually I'm happy); you seem to be saying that you are (sad for me? aww... that's sweet). Fair enough. At least you're laughing your A off, as you put it; that's something for you.
PoorandUglyMessage #3024 - 11/19/10 12:22 PMWhoa!! Hold your horses there M&M. I have no idea what you're talking about nor do I care to remember anyway. Fair enough. At least you're laughing your A off, as you put it; that's something for you. Yes, I will keep laughing. As Martha Stewart would say: "That's a good thing, not a bad thing." LMAO.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:10:05 GMT -5
schrizoMessage #3025 - 11/19/10 05:26 PMIt has been over discussed and sadly you cannot change the hearts of men. That is why there were laws to (attempt) to correct this. No matter, if basic needs to live become hard to get the heart will be overtaken by the stomach.
Crying TreeMessage #3026 - 11/19/10 05:47 PMThings are not good. I think we have a dictatorship country or communist. The welfare guy next door running his furniture manufacturing business out his house said he would get me if I rated him out. I'm on the home owners committee. He blasted his chain saw at our bedroom window last Sunday. I dived for the floor bumped the night stand and broke two front teeth off at the gum line. This guy is 29 and I'm pushing seventy. He doesn't have two nickels. Bulling of seniors by welfare people with nothing to lose. Thanks USA welfare. Now their talking of cutting unemployment - trouble coming.
Stay PutMessage #3027 - 11/19/10 07:04 PMI was thinking about an old Irish sentiment that seems apropos in these times. I think that it went something like this: When the funds are low and the debts are high. When you want to smile but can only sigh. When care is pressing you down a bit. Rest if you must, but don't you quit. For success is failure turned inside out. The silver lining of the clouds of doubt. And it may be near when it seems so far. Another turn and there you are..................... ...or something like that.
PoorandUglyMessage #3028 - 11/19/10 08:46 PMDamn Crying Tree, you shouldn't have to tolerate threats like that. Has that been the first threat? If not, report it to the police or something. Don't just do nothing. I wouldn't tolerate that crapola. I know it is always easier said than done but it is not worth living that way by doing nothing. Look at it that way.
Crying TreeMessage #3029 - 11/19/10 09:58 PMWe've yet begun to fight. Your right PoorandUgly- My wife just laughed when she saw your posting name. I would like to take a space ship to another planet where people still get married and a man is no better than his word. Let those who lie, steal and cheat live here a lone with each other. I'll pay you tomorrow or the checks in the mail type. Give them each a gun with lots of bullets. Then come back after the last shot is fired.
djrickMessage #3030 - 11/20/10 01:12 AMWhat fiscal policy will there be going forward? We've been shown that door already-austerity for the masses, the lawless, overly enabled top 1%, the real owners of this country, for which the masses get to pay for their double dirty dealing in the repeat of 07... Socialize the losses, Privatize the profits, and the trickle down smells REAL bad. Need more proof? [ noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQNv4dRAZUJI&pos=8] Rivlin Stirs U.S. Sales Tax Debate Ahead of Debt Panel Report - Bloomberg.com
Murphy MartinMessage #3031 - 11/20/10 01:35 PMYes, I will keep laughing. As Martha Stewart would say: "That's a good thing, not a bad thing."
LMAO. This is very unkind of you. I'll admit: you've convinced me. You're right, I'm wrong; you're smart, I'm stupid. But I want to learn from you, and so far our argument is very simple: I say the dividends keep going up, and you say "Oh, yeah? ENRON". But this isn't helpful to such a stupid person as me. I am begging you, in all earnestness and sincerity, to explain to me why you think Enron is a reason I shouldn't enjoy my ever-increasing dividends. Or did you mean something else by bringing up Enron? Please help. It's clear that your thesis is that things are bad-- I've reread your posts to learn from your wisdom-- but if you don't explain it to me clearly enough for someone as stupid as me to understand, I will have no choice but to keep earning ever-increasing dividends. And you've convinced me I shouldn't do this, but you haven't told me why, or how to avoid it. I BEG you: help me. Don't make me keep getting richer in complete obliviousness to how bad things really are. PLEASE don't reduce me to this. Help me to join the Depression.
Crying TreeMessage #3032 - 11/20/10 11:21 PMThe fight for the economy starts at home. Increase the value of your property by cleaning up your neighborhood and proving it to be safe place to live. Some places around big cities are very unsafe. It can be done in the name of urban renewal. That would create a lot of work. Our president today maybe is a policy setter? Lawyer background type. We need a doer and more down to earth president next time.
Stay PutMessage #3033 - 11/21/10 05:16 AMThe time for finger pointing and the blame game has long past. Not to say that we should not point out the constant corruption within our own government, banks, etc., as we discover such, but to argue among ourselves here on these boards is a complete exercise in futility. Murphy Martin I think what some of the others have been trying to point out to you is that given the fact that the FED has continuously pumped the markets up with our tax dollars, you and others like you have been stealing the wealth of the children and grand children of this entire U.S. nation. You guys are so caught up in the party, that none of you have even considered the bill that will have to be paid. I fully realize that for many, this is some of the easiest money that you could ever hope to make. Just remember. Real wealth is NEVER easy, and easy wealth is NEVER honest...save for a lottery or a lucky pick. What's been happening in the markets is likened to "shooting fish in a barrel", and if you don't see the inherent corruption in that then nobody will be able to say anything to change your mind. When your own children and grand-children ask you what happened to their own futures, maybe by then you can look them in the eyes and tell them that at least you got yours.
Crying TreeMessage #3034 - 11/21/10 04:31 PMWe can't afford these wars politicians want to fight. The systems is rotten and needs repair. Now more corruption on wall street. Many people do not have enough money to live. The cooper penny turned into a dollar by being made larger? What a place. What a mess. Were not world leaders at home.
Stay PutMessage #3035 - 11/22/10 04:19 AMThe cooper penny turned into a dollar by being made larger? Well, at least it's not a wooden nickel.
time2shareMessage #3036 - 11/22/10 04:58 AMCNBC said GM would have to double where it is right now for the US to break even on Friday........ Another load of BS or not they said it! I really do not give a rats but...The are al liars to me any way....This entire thing is a lie and to what end? Is it a conspiracy? Is it the wealthy wanting to be on top ALWAYS? Is it just F/U luck? Who knows...and Who Cares! ALL I KNOW IS, I will not be part of it any more! The Hamsters can keep spinning the wheel until they die...I will just enjoy watching the drama and laughing at the ridiculous way all of you punish yourselves!
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:10:57 GMT -5
Tyfighter3Message #3037 - 11/22/10 05:41 AMBuy FORD, they didn't ask for handouts.
PoorandUglyMessage #3038 - 11/22/10 02:18 PMHey M&M, you AMUSE me so much. Ya know, like a clown right? Some (slow) learners finally ask the question, "Do I amuse you now?" But you're something special to be sure. I am sure the church lady as played by Dana Carvy would agree in saying "Isn't that just special?" LMAO
wizzozsMessage #3039 - 11/22/10 10:03 PMWe talk, we shuffle thoughts about individuals, corporations, funds,banks and other structured enities and it all goes back to the greed to prosper more than our fellow human being. Isnt this the true reality? Now if we trust in humans to assist us in our prosperous journey, we now include ethics in our government and financial backbone of are countries existance. Our society will not survive without laws that control people in a manner that polices individual conduct. We need lobby laws, insurance information laws, individual information guarded and health care costs regulated. We are bankrupt with these current practices. We have some very greedy corporations that are sinking the American way of life, so they will have one more dollar at the end of every day. The BS is about neck high right now!!!!!!!!
wizzozsMessage #3040 - 11/22/10 10:17 PMmanipulation at work
schrizoMessage #3041 - 11/23/10 02:35 AMThe only thing I would add to what you say is the "return to the American way of life" means excluding some of our fellow world brothers at our expense. Greed is lifting all boats but not in America. You can live your life with good values but it will not return to our society at large. I don't think it is in the interest of evolution to do so. The values that were sold to us as kids were a way of civil control. Still, America is a beautiful country.
Crying TreeMessage #3042 - 11/23/10 03:19 AMschrizo - Nice sentimental post. I still believe in discipline. Without it you have nothing. I still believe in values even if others trash them. You can't cheat an honest man - I'm still here. To me life is a temporary proving ground - Do what you want - all doors open. You are only accountable to yourself. Magic did not make the world. The visit is short. Heaven is there and I'm almost in - Each day counts in the end. America is beautiful but can get ugly in a hurry if not nurture with love.
becareful1Message #3043 - 11/23/10 01:46 PMIreland this morning
BGA4444Message #3044 - 11/23/10 03:01 PMNorth Korea attacks! The pacific is a ticking time bomb. This is exactly what China needs to get some women and kill off a few hundred million men! Do not believe peace is at hand. The only thing at hand is WWIII. Taiwan, I am sure is on full alert! As is Japan and the Philippines!
wizzozsMessage #3045 - 11/23/10 03:46 PMGreed can cheat the honest man. It will take your investments for retirement and trash what you have worked so hard to secure. Just in the last few years we have witnessed the distruction of retirement funds controlled by wallstreet corporations. What are your odds that you will prevail with a profit when you are ready to retire? Do you really want to gamble your hard worked retirement? Insurance for such an event does not exist. So if you invest for retirement in stocks, then you also need to be prepared to live in a tent if things dont work out. Hey, you and your decisions are the gamble that created that situation. Its real, its the way it will remain until we return to an accountable way of life. It returns back to greed and there is a person or corporation out there that is working on taking your retirement funds before you can use them. This is by no means a statement that is intended to scare you, its a statement made that is backed up by past events that did happen to fellow American retirement funds. Its Gamble or its the tent.
time2shareMessage #3046 - 11/23/10 04:56 PMYet another way THE MARKETS can RIP YOU OFF! WAR and RIGGED MARKETS INSIDER TRADING.....Who finances the purchase of these military items... WE DO! Who stands by and contributes to all the inappropriate insider(s) story telling and rigging massive hedges with super computers with a 50 milisec advantage...WE DO! The Human Race is Tainted and beyond HOPE! There is going to be a lot of pain and suffering coming soon....and there will be no escape from Judgment DAY! SAVE YOUR CASH....GET OUT OF THE MARKETS!!!!!! RECESSION WILL KNOCK AGAIN!!!! BLACK FRIDAY IS A HUGE MARKETING PLOY to COST YOU MORE MONEY!! PRICES ARE ACTUALLY RIGGED HIGHER with 1 loss leader followed by 300 marked Up Higher items and a Fake Discounted/Marked down price making look like a SALE!!!....DO NOT GET CAUGHT IN THE HYPE!!!!!THE CORPORATIONS ARE HORDING CASH BECAUSE THEY KNOW SOMETHING BIG IS AROUND THE CORNER......AND THEY THINK MONEY IS GOING TO SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS!!!! It Wont !!!!IT WONT do them or you any good any way..but what the heck at least the Wall Street GREEDY PEOPLE, GET IT FIRST!
Stay PutMessage #3047 - 11/23/10 05:39 PM..and there will be no escape from Judgment DAY! SAVE YOUR CASH....GET OUT OF THE MARKETS!!!!!! RECESSION WILL KNOCK AGAIN!!!! BLACK FRIDAY IS A HUGE MARKETING PLOY to COST YOU MORE MONEY!! PRICES ARE ACTUALLY RIGGED HIGHER with 1 loss leader followed by 300 marked Up Higher items and a Fake Discounted/Marked down price making look like a SALE!!!....DO NOT GET CAUGHT IN THE HYPE!!!!!THE CORPORATIONS ARE HORDING CASH BECAUSE THEY KNOW SOMETHING BIG IS AROUND THE CORNER......AND THEY THINK MONEY IS GOING TO SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS!!!! It Wont !!!!IT WONT do them or you any good any way..but what the heck at least the Wall Street GREEDY PEOPLE, GET IT FIRST! If this were true, why would you save any cash? Although I and others have repeatedly sounded the alarm about the state of the economy, that does not mean that it is the end of days, judgment day, or the end of the world through some series of catastrophes. These, and so many other things yet to unfold, are merely the the results of completely corrupt Unions and governments both here and around the world. N. Korea is running out of food. Expect a whole lot worse. Starving people/nations will fight and kill for food. N. Korea, Ireland, Greece,..............and then look at the states within our own nation on the verge of total meltdown. If you are a sunshine pumper, then you should probably forget about all of the countless facts right in front of everyone's face. Please remember. Those of us who have been and are still reporting all that is actually happening, both here and around the globe, are not the "D&G" that we have been made out to be. If you look out the window and see the entire sky filled with black acumulous clouds, and a few of us say that you should get yourself an umbrella, and rain gear, that doesn't make us "doom and gloom". We too would love nothing more than if it were a beautiful, sunny day. Nobody wants to endure torrential rainfall. However, we are not going to live in total denial and try to convince ourselves that it will pass, and take no precautions for the conditions that currently exist. The people who do live in total denial, are the same ones that will find themselves caught out in the worst weather on record, and will expect someone else to venture out in that storm to save them. Not only do they put themselves at total risk, but they will expect others to put themselves in harms way to save them. If you have been repeatedly warned, and have done nothing to prepare for the coming storm, then don't expect others to help you when it does hit. If all that you could give was criticisms and attacks, then that is not someone people want to help.
BIGLLLMessage #3048 - 11/23/10 06:08 PMThe world has been conducting economics using "smoke and mirrors". Time to pay up! Way too many communists and socialists in charge. China will own us all. The pot smoking liberals who are now in charge will try to talk nicely and reason with the communists and they will finally realize that there can only be one winner in the world. The winner use to the the USA "a good guy", now the winner will be the "bad guy". Most of you are all so stupid. Unfortunately, I am stuck here with you and your liberal theories.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:11:50 GMT -5
PoorandUglyMessage #3049 - 11/23/10 06:58 PMOur society will not survive without laws that control people in a manner that polices individual conduct. We need lobby laws, insurance information laws, individual information guarded and health care costs regulated. We are bankrupt with these current practices. We have some very greedy corporations that are sinking the American way of life, so they will have one more dollar at the end of every day. The BS is about neck high right now!!!!!!!! North Korea attacks! The pacific is a ticking time bomb. This is exactly what China needs to get some women and kill off a few hundred million men! Very insightful gender issue. Never thought about it upon this latest incident but it makes sense in a sinister fashion unfortunately. IMHO, to obtain and hold power in general requires a sinister mindset.
wizzozsMessage #3050 - 11/23/10 09:42 PMI need to purchase some more comfortlevel! But I dont want to purchase the new contract from a wall street controled company. I feel the corporations have a unstable financial status to go ahead and asure me a good comfortlevel. Whats there past history or credeit rating? Have they taken a bailout? How are they involved in the future hedgefund investigation? They have no insurance. SO NOW WHAT?
schrizoMessage #3051 - 11/23/10 10:03 PMWhat I found most interesting was in a "film" called Collapse when they talked about the fall of the soviet union. Apparently the soviet union was the main source of food for North Korea. And after the collapse they did not know how to raise food for themselves and had no fuel to do it anyway. But in Cuba, Castro told the population to plant seeds in any available area. Now they have healthier foods and are supplying at least most of their food. Of course I know nothing of climate difference and can't confirm the above information but it seemed very likely true. "Collapse" on dvd from netflix. Interesting stuff.
Crying TreeMessage #3052 - 11/23/10 11:23 PMCuban was lucky. America gave them the cold shoulder. Now they have one of the best marine environments in the world. The school kids release the baby sea turtles into the sea. The people act like part of the environment and do not destroy it like the USA. Most Cubans are not making big bucks but big smiles are worth more......North Korea wants attention - They probably need more food - bullets are not very tasty.
Stay PutMessage #3053 - 11/24/10 06:26 AMCuban was lucky. That's why so many, every year, risk almost certain death to try to get into this country, because it's so wonderful to live under a Communist tyrant.
Crying TreeMessage #3054 - 11/25/10 04:05 AMI knew a lot of Cubans. They wanted to raise an army and go back and win. Times have changed. The new Cuban as Fidel fades way. Everyone dreams to be rich. Living next door to those arrogant people is for other arrogant people. The Cubans have a simple happiness today that Americans search for and cannot find.
Stay PutMessage #3055 - 11/25/10 05:37 AMThe Cubans have a simple happiness today that Americans search for and cannot find. You've been reading too many Communist propaganda papers. What you try to pass off as "simple happiness", most people around the world, and most importantly here in America, all call abject poverty. If you like it so much why don't you go ahead and move there. Oh. And while you're at it, take Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Schumer, Van Jones, etc. all with you. You guys can all go live out that utopia snake oil that you are trying to sell.
FetonaMessage #3056 - 11/25/10 08:10 AMYou guys can all go live out that utopia snake oil that you are trying to sell. "Snake Oil"... that's high in cholesterol isn't it? 
Crying TreeMessage #3057 - 11/25/10 03:00 PMThe still-standing virgin forest has become the last safe place for several plant and animal species on the island,· said Paul Schoenfield, head biologist for Gitmo. ·This includes numerous marine animals and sea life.·..........
Crying TreeMessage #3058 - 11/25/10 03:10 PMStay Put - Shopping at Wal Mart and wearing communist jeans or other items? Global economy? People are entitled to their own way of life & politics. Americans pointing fingers at others why killing people around the world in the name of democracy that is fleeting in their own country?
decoy409Message #3059 - 11/25/10 03:41 PMand with the latest out of the UK why looks like a great week ahead.
BGA4444Message #3060 - 11/26/10 01:33 AMDecoy, I agree, and happy turkey day to you all! South Korea is rushing troops to the DMZ. The powder keg fuse is already burning. I am afraid the explosion will come much sooner than we think. China is the driving force behind all North Korea does. The NK are being used as a pawn to allow China to act out it's own agenda. The Chinese want Taiwan, North and South Korea, Japan- Who they hate and have for decades! They probably will take over the Philippines and Australia too! The big question is who can stop them? Certainly not bankrupt already fighting and losing two wars America! When it happens remember you heard it here first!
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:12:42 GMT -5
wizzozsMessage #3061 - 11/26/10 06:16 AMI dont understand it? The korea conflict actually sent a comfort level signal to the stock market on wednesday, gaining 150 points. Now what would Lewis Black say about this BS manipulated stock market. Common sense would tell you that this is not a normal reaction that follows a threat of war. I am starting to think the stimulus money is sitting on a shelf and when the markets fail to sustain growth then the stimulas money is invested to maintain somewhat of a growth. The markets absolutely need to hold and maintain value or we will have a huge withdraw of funds, due to the fact that investors need the money for retirement. I guess the trouble now is that Americans have lost trust in the financial and political business as we ounce knew it to be. One might as well say that the New York Stock Exchange operates as a branch of the government. We pay our taxes to the government and the government gives the money to the markets so they can back our investments we all have in our retirement. Its a constant negative draw on our deficit. How long can this go on before it catches up and we are broke, are children will be asked to pay back what we borrowed, and they also have no resourses. Reality will always surface no matter how hard you try to smother it. I so wish I was totally wrong with what I had stated, but I really believe I am dead on the market/government situation.
Crying TreeMessage #3062 - 11/26/10 06:34 AMNorth Korea is looking for a fight. Sending a stronger military presence to the area plays right into their hands. They want sympathy and support from China and so do we. China seems to be a key in everything these days. China will determine the outcome. That is their area of the world. Asia is big and has the greatest population of any race of people. What about sending pop corn to North Korea. It goes bang and you can eat it.
Stay PutMessage #3063 - 11/26/10 08:18 AM Certainly not bankrupt already fighting and losing two wars America! When it happens remember you heard it here first! BGA, I think that you hit it on the mark here. China could very well be behind the N. Korea hostilities for the reasons/outcomes that you have stated, as well as something else. China knows full well that America can never hope to pay off our debt. If they have come to that conclusion, they might very well get behind forcing our hand one way or another. Forcing us into a third war front, is a sure fire way of collapsing our dollar once and for all. If America decides to abandon all of Asia, as we just cannot afford to continue to fight in the insignificant wars that we are currently in (relatively speaking), let alone a real full blown war with a "real" army, China takes over all of those nations that you have listed without a fight. Either way, China wins.
Murphy MartinMessage #3064 - 11/26/10 01:58 PMMurphy Martin I think what some of the others have been trying to point out to you is that given the fact that the FED has continuously pumped the markets up with our tax dollars, you and others like you have been stealing the wealth of the children and grand children of this entire U.S. nation. How have I ever stolen anything from anyone? I simply invest in a non-stupid way. I'm very far from being a genius; everyone out there is cordially invited to invest well, and I do so, simply because it's easy to do so. How is doing so "stealing"? Full disclosure: I have no inside information, so I don't engage (and can't engage) in insider trading. The dividends keep going up, simply because they do, for reasons I can't control.
Murphy MartinMessage #3065 - 11/26/10 02:03 PMIf you like it so much why don't you go ahead and move there. Don't be ridiculous. Cuba has its good points, but that by itself doesn't create a situation in which an admirer can actually relocate. Not everyone is in a position to move. Saying "America: love it or leave it" (or a near equivolent) is a pretty brain-dead move. Don't be that guy. Personally, I'd rather move to China than Cuba. And, um, I did so. But not everyone can move, because there are various obstacles, whether ties that bind or visa hurdles. Telling someone he/ she should leave your country simply because he/ she disagrees with you is a positively evil action.
Murphy MartinMessage #3066 - 11/26/10 02:10 PMHey M&M, you AMUSE me so much. Ya know, like a clown right?
Some (slow) learners finally ask the question, "Do I amuse you now?"
But you're something special to be sure. I am sure the church lady as played by Dana Carvy would agree in saying "Isn't that just special?"
This is incoherent, dude. And aside from that, I asked you for help, but you refuse. You leave me no choice but to keep earning dividends. You tell me things are bad; I admit my inability to live in your world in which things are, apparently bad; I ask you to teach me; you refuse. So I have no choice but to live in the world in which things are good. It's not the end of the world, but still, I did ask for your help. It's lonely in the non-depression world, after all. Only about 80% of us are there, and we'd love to join the rest of you in your depression. (And I can't figure out why you'd bring up Dana Carvey 20 years late AND misspell his name. How does that add to the conversation?) (ps-- sorry to take several days to get back to you: earning and whatnot).
time2shareMessage #3067 - 11/26/10 02:44 PMIn Cuba the power vacuum is building after the brothers die....Europe is there right now and Democracy is an underlying current that will not be slowed. The lines there are not for stupid material items and electronics gadgets...those lines are for Milk, bread, 2 oz. of meat and other life sustaining items (if you can call it any life at all) So can you say it is Christmas there every day? OR That the Cubans made a real bad decision and did not have the balls to do anything about it THEN and NOW OR That Communism Works to control your hunger then it takes your soul and your freedom.........Most of the kids that were born there in the sixties and immigrated to the US and other countries have never seen there home country and I for one would love to first see it Free again...My dad never got that chance, my mother may not get that chance.....The curse stays until Cubans from all over the world and there are millions in the US and other millions in the island and elsewhere decide Freedom is worth laying you life for the privilege, like Americans have always done.......FOR As long as it takes! THat's worth giving Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving......
Crying TreeMessage #3068 - 11/28/10 02:27 AMtime2share - Many Cubans came to the west coast in the late 1960's and got jobs at the phone company. Tough talking to them at first because of language differences. We grew to like those guys. The ones I know are happy here but still talk of Cuba.
wizzozsMessage #3069 - 11/28/10 11:26 PMSo many people cant deal with reality. There is No dishonest history told about the past or present reality. The people who want to fabricate reality are the ones that also blame one person for all the trouble we have in this world. Example: people who blame Obama for our present condition of the country. Give me a break, I am neither a Dem. or Rep. and I have enough common sense to know that are present troubles have escalated over many years. Lets just deal with the truth of the present time,our plate is full without fabricating blame to certain parties or individuals. News media will do better to report the reality and be neutral in party affiliation. Americans need to start to voice there opinion more vocally so we nold people accountable in all levels of life and business.
Crying TreeMessage #3070 - 11/28/10 11:35 PMMaybe the government is making money off stock investments - What about that? Things sort of went wrong about the time home computers took off. The wild west of everything and anything. Virtual reality. Click and it arrives on your door step. Good and bad information all at once. Over indulgence of too much information?
PoorandUglyMessage #3071 - 11/29/10 01:23 PMThis is incoherent, dude. M&M, It is only incoherent to you, dude. You keep paying me dividends though. LMAO.
PoorandUglyMessage #3072 - 11/29/10 01:40 PMFreedom is worth laying you life for the privilege, like Americans have always done.......FOR As long as it takes! THat's worth giving Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving...... Yes, but it is not like this anymore. Meaning, many who fight now are truly fighting for the rich in this country for the benefit of the status quo of the fascist American corpratacracy. The propaganda labels that freedom also. That is, a form of freedom to steal monetarily from your neighbor with impunity and chalk up any payback to the good ole "taxpayer". I will not fight to risk my red blood so the haves can continue to keep their blue bloods and remain fat lazy, arrogant, stupid, greedy and reckless etc. with their own hide over here. Sorry. And I don't fight for Government Sux, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Exxon Mobil nor the IVY league factory outlets they come from either who simply control the puppet strings of our government like so many nickels and dimes in their back pockets. Like in the wars since our founding, these bastards, if anything need to truly fight again along side everyone else or go to jail already for their crimes. But they won't of course do either as they are above the law. And you can thank 1. globalization for that (lack of true allegiance to United States first and foremost, NOT CHINA, SINGAPORE ETC..) plus 2 the unemployment problem in the US too. If jobs continue to be hard to come by, the rich fascist bastards know that they will have an ample supply of people desperate to fight and lay down their own lives for their own greedy selfish bs causes just so that the people have some sort of financial security for themselves and their families. It is sinister. But that is how it works, especially for the ones who run our country. It is a giant chess game and many don't realize they are just pawns. Talk about ignorance is bliss!
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:13:35 GMT -5
wizzozsMessage #3073 - 11/29/10 03:58 PMMight be your dividend money might actually be in reality your tax paid money returning to you as the government backs corporations. Do you really believe that scenario can exist for a long period of time? The taxpayers cant continue to pay the dividends on a market that cant sustain a profit. Its called bankruptcy. One seriously has to start thinking how the government is manipulating corporate growth as concerns over how do we protect the American workforce retirement fund. What percent of funds in the market are directly related to retirement investments? One could say I am involved in the WALL STREET CASINO ODDS.
BGA4444Message #3074 - 11/29/10 04:25 PMWizzozs, great point! The other great point is when investors begin to pull money out for retirement. The taxes on retirement income is going to go thru the stratosphere. I would not be surprised in the next 5 to 10 years to see a 60-80% tax on investment income. It would be about the only way to make the government whole again. The average American worker has close to zero savings. So the money is going to have to come from the rich. The government is so far in debt they are going to even break the rich. There is just no way out. Higher retirement ages, less benefits, and near 100% tax on retirement payments once other income matches those payments. Do not think all or many more of these scenarios are on the back burner or already in place. Something has got to give. Uncle Sam is one broke ass! They are in a true "Catch 22" whatever they do will kill the economy- including doing nothing which is what they have already been doing!!
wizzozsMessage #3075 - 11/29/10 04:55 PMYeah! At what point do future retirement Americans say,( give me my retirement money now, because I cant afford the reality of a total lose of my retirement fund). There is no such thing as bailing out the entire stock market.
Stay PutMessage #3076 - 11/30/10 04:46 AMAt what point do future retirement Americans say,( give me my retirement money now, because I cant afford the reality of a total lose of my retirement fund). I think a better question would be. A what point does everyone realize that we are completely broke, and can NEVER hope to repay the debt?
lookingfor answersMessage #3077 - 11/30/10 05:27 PMThe Government will be looking at ways to stay afloat, heavily taxing retirement funds is a possibility, taxes on properties owned and operated by religious groups is another and they may decide that a religious organization may be tax exempt on donations up to a certain amount and anything over that would be taxable. They are becoming desperate, nothing will be beyond their touch.
Crying TreeMessage #3078 - 11/30/10 06:40 PMPoliticians are kiss ups or bullies. They kiss up when caught using unauthorized funds and bullies if we sit around and do nothing. The politician who got a free ride in health care for his state by political black mail for a vote should be banned. This is the United States not the United states of 49 and one with special favors.
PoorandUglyMessage #3079 - 11/30/10 07:19 PMtaxes on properties owned and operated by religious groups is another and they may decide that a religious organization may be tax exempt on donations up to a certain amount and anything over that would be taxable. I think this is an excellent idea. It is long long long overdue that religious groups and their properties be taxed like everyone else. IMHO, the tax exempt status because an entity is religious should be eliminated asap. Besides, God's true kingdom is all around us. The founders of some of these religions taught and preached such. It does not reside in a church, synagogue, mosque etc.... No special treatment should be given to this place or that because it rubber stamps God's mark with fancy windows, halls, and gates. We are all God's children. No one should be better than anyone else nor seize advantage because of it either.
bubblyandblueMessage #3080 - 11/30/10 08:33 PMDOn't want to see a situation where the state or fed could go after a church/religion because they didn't file their taxes properly or - they have a minimum tax to pay or- some new law gets made that intertwines church and state.
Crying TreeMessage #3081 - 11/30/10 11:50 PMPoorandUgly - You need a reality check. How to live on nothing articles abound. All my bills went up this year except property tax. We already overpay because the value is not worth the taxed amount. Social Security is frozen - no raises and cannot keep up with inflation or cost of living. This is God's kingdom but where is he? A lot of Violence. Even a fight over a parking spot between a man and woman ends bad. The woman got knocked out and put in a coma, a neighbor ran out and knocked the guys teeth down his throat for hitting a woman. Trouble is everywhere. Christmas coming and no money for many.
djrickMessage #3082 - 12/01/10 01:41 AM If the American rich increasingly do not depend for their wealth on American workers and American consumers or for their safety on American soldiers or police officers, then it is hardly surprising that so many of them should be so hostile to paying taxes to support the infrastructure and the social programs that help the majority of the American people. The rich don't need the rest anymore. [ blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/08/02/do-the-rich-even-need-the-rest-of-america-anymore/] Do the Rich Need the Rest of America? - The Wealth Report - WSJ
djrickMessage #3083 - 12/01/10 01:43 AMThe other side of that coin is to question America's need for its wealthiest. If they produce no benefit for the country at large, and are indeed global citizens, why suffer their interests or presence at all?
wizzozsMessage #3084 - 12/01/10 02:49 AMAmerica! WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!!! I keep thinking about our legislators. Its a damn good thing that our service personal both Democrats and Republicans can decide on a proceedure to perform that will work for both parties and the end results actually helps all Americans. They dont bikker or hold out due to the fact that progress is extremely important. Neither the Democrats or Rebublicans can brag that they have won a single war. Together we worked for the ethical solution. What we have now is a picket line strike from the Rebublican party at the expense of the unemployed. They are demonstrating the lack of respect for the unemployed. I seriuosly believe that if the current legislatures dont perform as a accountable and ethical represenative , then the voters need to clean house and start all over. Just might be that we can find some ordinary citizens that aernt millionaires. The BS has to stop now. How do you think our service personel are feeling about the United part of the United States. Just saying that initself,and also being a veteran of Vietnam. You jerks need to do whats right together, stop the unethical BS, and just do whats right for the American Citizens. That doesnt mean make history and not extend unemployment benefits. Yes it would be the first time in our history, and thereis a party holding it up presently. Just do what you should be doing to reunite this country.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:14:27 GMT -5
djrickMessage #3085 - 12/01/10 03:01 AM Do the Rich Need the Rest of America? - The Wealth Report - WSJ [ www.freedomship.com/] Freedom Ship
Crying TreeMessage #3086 - 12/01/10 03:53 AMNo, but greed is a disease. Bernie Ebbers of WorldCom had 400 million and a million a year retirement. He went for the billion and got taken down and took stock holders with him. Bernie Madoff could have been honest and successful but greed struck and investors lost. Greed can take over your mind. Ceo's, the Rich and politicians should have mandatory course in greed control. The top of the financial pie is happy and below that is disarray. Too many groups think their better than other groups. Weakness in Union.
Stay PutMessage #3087 - 12/01/10 06:16 AMDo the Rich Need the Rest of America? - The Wealth Report - WSJ djerk, America is not buying into your Progressive class warfare. The problem is that the Progressives have systematically destroyed the economy so as to crush the U.S. Constitution and replace it with a Communist regime. You guys like to euphemistically call it One World Order. In case you and your kind were asleep, America woke up and made our voices heard on election day. History was made on this election day. 2012 is right around the corner.
PoorandUglyMessage #3088 - 12/01/10 02:36 PMPoorandUgly - You need a reality check. How to live on nothing articles abound. All my bills went up this year except property tax. We already overpay because the value is not worth the taxed amount. Social Security is frozen - no raises and cannot keep up with inflation or cost of living. This is God's kingdom but where is he? A lot of Violence. Even a fight over a parking spot between a man and woman ends bad. The woman got knocked out and put in a coma, a neighbor ran out and knocked the guys teeth down his throat for hitting a woman. Trouble is everywhere. Christmas coming and no money for many. No. It is precisely why for so many who go with nothing who have paid more than their fair share of taxes from the fruits of their labor for so long only to be left destitute now that it is high mighty time that all religious entities who hide behind the cloak of God come forward and pay taxes and then some to truly give back in times of need. The tax exempt status needs to go, especially now for all religious entities. I am not religious, just a pragmatist. In fact, technically when it comes to religion and God, I am agnostic personally. But I am cognizant of HUMANITY! We don't need another Dark Ages where people have to beg for charity from "immune" like type places of worship. They need to pay their fair share and the time has come.
wizzozsMessage #3089 - 12/01/10 02:44 PMYes America voted as a result of the lack of governing for the welfare of the nation. I would not call it a victory, its a warning that citizens have had enough with the present political process. the Dems had two years, now the Reps have two years. At the end if there is still a lack of progress, I seriously believe you will see the present elected officials fired from ther jobs in 2012. Now I think that should be the message the American peolpe send. That we have had it with lobbyist, special interest groups, lack of campaign reform, the lack of respect for personal idenity being respected. The government will vote for anything that will up there future funds to maintain there current status as a politician. reguardless of the ethics and accountability issues. Presently we are the STATES OF AMERICA and you can leave out the UNITED, because we are so distant from that actually being a fact. On the Government level we have no unity. Both parties have equal responsibility for structuring the present day operations of the government. It was not the President or a certain party that is to blame. The greed to satisfy anyone with money in return for laws that favor there special interests. juggle power at the expense of the presently unemployed is just one example. American citizens should be able to sue a politician that has seriously damaged an individuals life with a reckless vote that only lined the pockets of the politician. I think a suit should be filed that will demonstrate that the peolpe are seriuos about accountability in government office. Our soldiers work together everyday reguardless of party affiliation and ther decisions are working, now whats the damn problem at the government level. Is it that you need the big stage and drama to operate. Horseshit! Do your duty that you was elected to do or get out so we can have our country back. SOON----PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BGA4444Message #3090 - 12/02/10 12:32 PMThe number of long term unemployed is at catastrophic levels. The last time there was this many six plus month unemployed was the 1940's. If the 99ers benefits are not extended by the end of January over three million will lose the only lifeline they have. It was reported this morning that the unemployment checks are pumping 6-8 billion into the econmy each year. That 6-8 billion is about the only thing the government is doing that is truly helping main st. Things are so much worse now than when this thread was posted nearly two years ago. The only thing that has improved is the stock market. That is great but Wall st. has this kind of rebound while main st, goes to hell in a hand basket. Foreclosures at a all time high, long term unemployed at a all time high, home values still falling, bankruptcies at a all time high, and a ineffective government stuck in bipartisan gridlock. The sunshine pumpers are correct about one thing. The sun is shining again but on a very different America.
PoorandUglyMessage #3091 - 12/02/10 01:49 PMThe sunshine pumpers are correct about one thing. The sun is shining again but on a very different America. Don't worry about that thing called HUMANITY BGA4444. I hear the places of religious worship out there can handle it all through their charitable giving. After all, it is more important to make sure anywhere from $18 billion or so in unemployment benefits is offset elsewhere while $700 billion cost for extending tax cuts for top 2% of country doesn't have to be offset and paid elsewhere. Or maybe, the US can give $300 billion in more bailout money via the IMF to Europe (and hence not worry about how that in addition to trillions of others would be "offset" too) but when it comes to Americans at home, we can just continue to argue about not adding to the debt and make sure that is paid off elsewhere!! (Of course and unless the unemployed persons are crack mothers with children who are eligible for welfare, many other hardworking Americans who can't get a job at McDonald's let alone anywhere now cannot meet eligibility requirements anyway for the welfare just to live.) Hence, we got Rome beat baby! Not only in decadence and deceit but pure logic too!!!!!!!!!!! You cannot make this stuff up! But you're right. If you are not vulnerable and feel invincible and economic tragedy or any other tragedy cannot endure and befall upon one,, then it is all good. "There but for the grace of God go I" doesn't apply because the universe revolves around the continuing rally in the stock market only where fascist impunity reigns supreme except for one or two here and there on occasion (Madoff case). By such, everything else should work itself out. Uncle Ben practically acknowledged and said this almost verbatim and thinks this is the way out. In time, I fear for this man's safety among others because of this reckless stupidity of logic to say the least or sinister chess like-other intentions to say the worst!!!!!!!!! God help us.
neohguyMessage #3092 - 12/02/10 01:52 PMOn CNBC this morning they said that a report tomorrow of U3 being above 9% will have surpassed the number of consecutive weeks from the early 80's recession. This would make the current downturn the worst since the 1930's. The early 80's, imo, were the start of the current trend of eliminating dumb manufacturing jobs and replacing them with dumber service jobs or dumbest financial innovation jobs. We wet our bed so now we get to sleep in it.
BGA4444Message #3093 - 12/02/10 02:28 PMNeo & Poor, I also heard on the radio this a.m. that one out of four houses sold are foreclosures. These foreclosed homes are being sold for 33% less than the other homes. No wonder home prices can not rebound. Good God Washington stop the foreclosures and home prices will rise! I heard a congressional hearing about foreclosures this morning. What a absolute circus! Washington DC is a freaking joke! I also heard a committee talking about attacking the deficit. I thought some pretty good ideas had come fourth. I also heard one of the committee members say she just could not support the ideas brought fourth. Well lady what the hell are your ideas? Washington is political gridlock and they must all be replaced. What part of quit re-electing incumbents is so hard for Americans to understand. I had a guy from South Carolina in the other day who said " My guy is good and conservative. If everyone thinks like that we are doomed. I had to tell him no your guy is ineffective or we would not be in the shape we are in. All incumbents must be voted out! I no longer vote Republican or Democrat I just vote against all incumbents!
hvfpaintsMessage #3094 - 12/02/10 03:31 PM"Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed frequently and for the same reason"
neohguyMessage #3095 - 12/02/10 05:03 PMNeo & Poor, I also heard on the radio this a.m. that one out of four houses sold are foreclosures. These foreclosed homes are being sold for 33% less than the other homes. No wonder home prices can not rebound. Good God Washington stop the foreclosures and home prices will rise! 30%-40% is correct. I recently bought one for myself at ~40% below comparable asking price for the neighborhood. This one happened to be an estate sale but the terms were the same as bank owned property. You need proof that you have money in the bank for your bid to even be considered. Those terms eliminate most first time home buyers. Much of the foreclosed property out there that "looks" good will land up going for a discount of more than 33%. I've found a lot of it to have new windows, siding, roof, etc that was installed by the previous owners whose only experience was watching home improvement shows and "lets flip this house". I pretty much ignore places that have cheap floating wood floors. If you want to see the magnitude of depressed pricing for foreclosed homes then google homes for sale with your zip code and trulia.
Crying TreeMessage #3096 - 12/02/10 07:00 PMOur property has been going up. Last year their were a lot of vacant bank ownerships. This year they got filled up mostly in September. Most love their new discount houses. No Vacancy this year.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:15:20 GMT -5
wizzozsMessage #3097 - 12/02/10 07:30 PMI was just wondering where all the money the Republicans used on the last election came from. SHIT!!! What a surprise it came from wall street corporations. Large banks,insurance companies ect. . All the businesses that would be effected by reform, be it campaign,health or what have you, the rich were spending big money to override the Democratic party. This all was reported by the Washington Post newspaper. Also by political party watchdog campaign funding. Yeah its all documented and true, reality. Enough there to acknowledge that the lobbyist rich bought out the election. So you thought your vote counted? Not really, you can see that the greedy has destroyed your right to exercise your freedom to vote. Yes greed has surfaced and ripped up the constitution of the United States. Our elected represenatives and corporations who display this need to be challenged as this is just as bad as the document leaks . We have no trust for the government and it will soon go to the markets as greed has control and will prevent the ethics to even exist in our everyday life. Really sad for a country that starts with the word, UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!
BGA4444Message #3098 - 12/03/10 12:30 PMI am neither republican or democrat. I am a conservative, without a party that truly represents me. However, I do fall in the less than 200k a year category so I really appreciate being put in the "chicken crap" category by Boener yesterday. All that statement did was give the Dems a great video when running against a republican next election. I can hear it now! If you want republicans representing you here is what they think of you- Chicken crap chicken crap chicken crap. What a bunch of pure idiot we have elected!
neohguyMessage #3099 - 12/03/10 12:33 PMI am neither republican or democrat. I am a conservative, without a party that truly represents me. Same here. Independent Bernie Sanders tells it like it is:
Veteran_LenderMessage #3100 - 12/03/10 12:39 PM
BGA4444Message #3101 - 12/03/10 02:45 PMThanks Neo & VL good to hear from you two. Of all the posters on MT I would expect you two to feel like me and other conservatives. The unemployment# goes up and the created jobs are way down from expectations. Very concerning!
time2shareMessage #3102 - 12/03/10 03:06 PMThis last election was a Bow Shot TO BOTH PARTIES......the Next election will be a Tsunami...... I will personally vote all incumbents OUT! AND KEEP DOING SO UNTIL ALL THE OLD TIMERS ARE OUT......!!!!! THEY ARE ALL DRUNK WITH POWER AND NEED TO BE REMOVED .....!!!!! The first preparation for WAR ...repel the don't ask don't tell policy...WHY? Its because they will bring back the DRAFT! Our troops are now serving 3 and 4 tours of duty and WE are running out of Bodies......So they will give citizenship to illegal aliens that volunteer from ages 18-30. The next thing so they cant use this; THE "GAY" excuse, to Dodge The DRAFT so the race is on to repel the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy.....Next the US will start the DRAFT and 1 year later GO TO WAR......!!!! SO GET READY!!!! as I mentioned in my earlier post the unemployment is up to 9.8 and climbing to 10.00%+...wait until the temporary employed get dropped off the roles in January...... The floor will drop!!!! The Government is hiking up the Markets artificially to "SO CALLED" raise worth.......WHAT A JOKE!!!!! IT IS WORTHLESS WORTH....!!!! Look for the markets to continue to balloon before the POP.........NO JOBS.....NO GROWTH.......WHY, IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? The government wants to CUT JOBS, FREEZE SALARIES, CUT BENEFITS, EXTEND RETIREMENT AGE to 68 by 2050 and I still do not hear them say "CUT FRAUD" and "LOOPHOLES" Medicare and Medicaid Fraud is 2 billion +, Government workers currentyly owe The US treasury 1 billion +, Pentagon OVER SPENDING 2.9 billion+, Millianaire loopholes 4.8 Billion +, Corporate loopholes 4.8billion+, and so on.....Where is all the Leadership?
great depression1Message #3103 - 12/03/10 03:25 PMThere wont be a draft unless we get into another war somewhere else,like say korea!
jarhead1976Message #3104 - 12/03/10 03:54 PMBernie Sanders the new American!
hvfpaintsMessage #3105 - 12/03/10 04:24 PMJust saw where Big Lots has seen a 42% drop in profits 3rd quarter. Sounds like they need to hire some government creative accountants.
Crying TreeMessage #3106 - 12/03/10 04:24 PMSeems like were all sitting on quicksand. One day jobs numbers are good - next day unemployment rate goes up. Secret sleaze leaks - no equality for gays like other countries - Everything is fine from the left side, everything is fine from the right side and the the middle is gone. Appears the truth is lost in all the lies.
BGA4444Message #3107 - 12/03/10 04:40 PMCheckout "Who rules America"(wealth & income). As of 2006 the bottom 80% of wage earners fought over about 38% of income. The bad news is that number has been falling for decades. It is down from 1982 when it was over 48%. That is over a 20% decline in less than 30 years. I guess the "Chicken crap" bunch has less "chicken crap" to fight over and can look for even less "chicken crap" to fight over in the future!
MOB1313Message #3108 - 12/03/10 08:18 PMI can`t seem to find all these unemployed people that are roaming the streets in their tattered coats looking for food banks and digging through dumpsters, EVERYBODY I know or come in contact with on a day to day basis is WORKING. I get up in the morning and see my wife off and go to the 7 11 to get my morning coffee and the papers, all the happy employed people are rushing in and out, very busy. I drive back to my home and I park in the empty parking lot because all of my neighbors are what? WORKING. I worked thirty two years in Construction and retired in 2009, I am very fortunate. I have not been able to find any kind of work since but I now know that this is my fault alone; I should have never retired. You see, anybody who retired in the last two years from any PRIVATE INDUSTRY JOB will probably never work another day in their lives. The doors are all closed, end of story. The unemployed are doomed to a lifetime of Govt. handouts, the jobs are still being outsourced. The employed in Private Industry are all staying put, all working steady and maybe even some overtime, cant blame them, I`d be doing the same if I was employed. This situation will not change, the Employed don`t even see the Unemployed, they are nothing but a number in a report that has nothing to do with them. Politicians talk, and they don`t miss a days pay. The Unemployed will learn something from their experience on the outside, do anything you can to keep your job because when you lose it, chances are you will join the ranks of the new class of Americans; The Nothing Class, easy to ignore, just a Govt. statistic, a number. The American Population has found it`s balance in the Globalization of its economy, a permanent sub class of lower middle class citizens that will do anything to stay just above the poverty level; that is what the Majority of the people in this country wanted all along; the Majority that are WORKING. I find myself in the position I am in now because I have something on my resume that is a red flag, I have been a Union member for my whole career. I have made the mistake many times of listing my Union affiliation on job applications; that causes them to be rejected by any H.R. person that happens to review my application. This is the New America where United we fall, Divided we stand. Republican leaders will now drive the last nail in the coffin, they will show the Unemployed where they stand in this country, that they do not matter; especially Private Industry Union Members. The one thing that the Majority of working people in this country, as they are gloating about their uninterrupted employment, do not see is that this Under Class will probably not just disappear, I think they may show up soon in a neighorhood near you. Are we in a Depression? Just the Nothing Class, the Majority have not missed a day.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:16:12 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #3109 - 12/03/10 10:16 PMThe unemployed are at home with the retirees. Their cars do not move much. Not much work or money. When your working you do not notice. You are mainstream with responsibilities. Being unemployed with no job in sight is a helpless feeling. Don't get too smug it could happen to you. I always had a updated resume ready in my files. Getting left behind and loosing your savings is no laughing matter. Be kind, they are out there praying for work.
BGA4444Message #3110 - 12/03/10 10:28 PMThe Chinese children are being taught English as a second language. Do not think one job will be safe over here in a couple decades. Doctors and lawyers and engineers no job will be safe. Today labor jobs next week brain jobs. People are already going to India to have Major Surgery at 20% the price (including airfare).
MOB1313Message #3111 - 12/03/10 11:12 PMI hear that, Crying Tree. They are smug, that`s the word for it. The majority never missed a beat.
Crying TreeMessage #3112 - 12/04/10 02:11 AMI went through it in the early seventies. No one would hire white people and they had openings. I went to Wyoming for a couple of years to work at the same pay as Southern California. Toooo Cold.
BGA4444Message #3113 - 12/06/10 12:44 PMReported this morning on MSNBC, that at best it will take three to six years to just get back to 6% unemployment. I really do not believe we have that long before before unemployment becomes a leading indicator of a double dip recession. I can tell you credit is still a major problem for small companies. The only ones getting offered credit right now are the ones who really do not even need it!
Murphy MartinMessage #3114 - 12/06/10 12:52 PMDo not think one job will be safe over here in a couple decades. Doctors and lawyers and engineers no job will be safe. Anyway, by the time you reach your late 30s, you're too old to waste your time with a "job". By your late 30s, you should be living off your investments. Unless, of course, you wasted your youth and didn't put aside any money for investments.
Murphy MartinMessage #3115 - 12/06/10 01:35 PMM&M,
It is only incoherent to you, dude. You keep paying me dividends though.
I collect dividends; I don't pay them. I said your statement was incoherent because it is, by the normal standards of English. I say one thing, and you reply with a complete non sequitur. I'm still trying to figure out whether you're doing it on purpose or not. But: to take your last post literally, if you're actually collecting dividends (that's what you said! I'm not making this up) then why do you pretend things are bad? If you're collecting dividends, then all is well. Live long and prosper, and stop pretending you think things are bad.
Crying TreeMessage #3116 - 12/06/10 04:11 PMThe fed chief was on sixty minutes last night. Very interesting and smart leader of the federal reserve. I guess it is becoming two classes of people. Rich and poor. Looks like a few more years of the same economy but one really never knows.
Crying TreeMessage #3117 - 12/06/10 04:34 PMWhile Bernanke doesn't address all those topics in the interview, he does stand strong against his critics in three main ways. He says long-term inflation fears are "way overstated," and the Fed is not just "printing money." Plus, while critics are pointing out QE2's risks left and right, they are not weighing the risks of "not acting," Bernanke said. Responding to a question about the possibility of additional quantitative easing, Bernanke said: "Oh, it's certainly possible. And again, it depends on the efficacy of the program. It depends on inflation. And finally it depends on how the economy looks." He added that it "doesn't seem likely" that there will be a double-dip recession. Bernanke also said he's "100%" confident in the Fed's ability to control long-term inflation. "We could raise interest rates in 15 minutes if we have to," he said. "That time is not now."
PoorandUglyMessage #3118 - 12/06/10 05:27 PMHey M & M, Keep talking and pretending and fantasizing etc........ You, like no other on these boards, seem too obtuse to know any better. Ergo, you definately keep paying ME dividends but you are too dense to be cognizant of it. KEEP IT UP! LMAO.
wizzozsMessage #3119 - 12/06/10 06:57 PMThe stimulas is paying the dividens,bailing out the housing and banks, which were wall street investments. We have taxpayers money used to insure stocks so we dont loose our invested retirement. Its easy Wall street is now the government. Its the only way we can sustain growth by printing money. When the reality sinks in it will make people shutter. This is why the Republican party recieved so much money from Wall street corporations, as reported by the Washington Post. Also by campaign financial watch dogs. Just released today that combined debt from States totals 4 trillion dollars. Add that with Federal debt and the markets might be alright for awhile, maybe. Its a crap game with our retirement. Just today charges filed on wall street scams involving hundreds of people and multi-millions of dollars. U.S. Attorney General filed charges. Why do we trust Wallstreet? We should not, all violations are found after the fact and the money has disapeared and not recovered. Stay tuned the crap table MIGHT still pay a d.ividend
PoorandUglyMessage #3120 - 12/06/10 09:49 PMWhy do we trust Wallstreet? When these sons of btches hold a gun to the nations' heads by threatening with To Big To Fail logic, holding everyone else hostage if we don't comply to their financial demands, then it is not so much trust as it is - "if I go down, you go down." How can you beat that!? And these sons of btches understood this all along imho. Heads they win, tails they win. What they fail to understand is the long term. Unfortunately for some, history has a way of settling scores. Greed is only so good for so long. Hundreds, if not thousands of years of human history shows this. After all, how do you think most strife is caused? By a woman?? Only the Trojan War was caused by such. According to legend, the woman's beauty was the cause of war which "launched a thousand ships .." into battle. LMAO. Nonetheless, that is an exception let alone digression to point. Point is most other strife is caused by economics in one form or another at the end of the day. Some say it is for God. Others say it is for country. These are all euphemistic terms for more land (resources), money (treasure) and power. No more, no less. Nothing has changed too. We advance scientifically and technologically as human societies over time but human emotion remains constant given enough time too.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:17:04 GMT -5
Stay PutMessage #3121 - 12/07/10 04:55 AMHeads they win, tails they win. I think that it actually goes; "Heads I win. Tails you lose."
Murphy MartinMessage #3122 - 12/07/10 12:09 PMYou, like no other on these boards, seem too obtuse to know any better. Ergo, you definately keep paying ME dividends but you are too dense to be cognizant of it.
KEEP IT UP!
LMAO.
My only claim is that dividends keep going up, and I like earning them, and I keep earning them because I want to and can. If this is "obtuse" on my part, and makes you laugh, then my only question for you is: does this mean I'm not allowed to keep spending my ever-increasing dividends? Because far be it from me to deny you your right to laugh. I'm delighted that you're happy. It sounds like life is good for both of us... which I take as a vindication, because our entire argument is that I think things are good and you think things are bad. (Unless you've changed your mind? In any case, if you're laughing, things can't be too bad, can they?) ps-- I don't understand your claim that I'm paying you dividends. Do you mean this metaphorically? But how? Do you consider my giving you "LMAO" material a dividend? If so, this is win-win, because it's not taking anything away from my bottom line, so it's a free lunch. In this case, I'd say: I'm happy because the McDonalds and Johnson & Johnsons of the world keep increasing their dividend payments to me, and I can buy stuff with the dividends; you're happy (L your AO, in fact), because I'm paying you dividends that you CAN'T buy stuff with, but still, you're happy. Good for me, good for you. So remind me why we're arguing? You like collecting the metaphorical dividends that I'm paying you (which cost me nothing), and I don't mind giving them to you. I like collecting the ever-increasing monetary dividends that the multinational corporations are paying me, and you don't object to my receiving them (do you?). I'm even willing to be "obtuse", as long as the dividends keep going up. Seems to me that all is well.
wizzozsMessage #3123 - 12/08/10 06:07 AMLatest news from securities commission is Bank of America being charged with fraud along with other investment corporations. Article on securities web site. You were probably thinking I was bs-in you on the trust and greed issue. Greed shares the same popularity as the Dollar. Integrate the two and we have a system we no longer trust. Maybe China will lend me money if I loose my invested retirement fund. I never thought the markets would make me so nervous about investing my money in stocks to prepare for retirement. The markets care more about my money than they do about my retirement status. The greed will not stop as I have stated before. Everyday I seem to hear news that deteriorates my trust and comfortlevel with the investment system. What the H___ is next?
Crying TreeMessage #3124 - 12/08/10 06:40 AMNext - more stimulus and dividends or face the music. You can buy two headed nickels at joke shops or two tailed nickels to win or lose. Better take the dividends and smile or sink in financial quicksand. Gold has gotten bubblier a long with silver. Maybe that will be next to disappear in the wrath of wealth gathering. The real world of value will appear sooner or later. Later does sound better but costs more.
hvfpaintsMessage #3125 - 12/08/10 12:23 PMNo - next comes the end of the peudo recovery. We cannot survive $3.00 + gas at this time. Way too fragile! Next comes more lay offs, more foreclosures, more credit defaults, very much worse. We need to nationalize the gas companies if they can't quit the gouging scenario.
wizzozsMessage #3126 - 12/08/10 02:43 PMReady,set, go stock market. Try to find positive indicators to fuel markets. Probably will need to pull more money from the shelf that contains stimulas money. Probably will need to print more, shelf running out. Seems like the dollar has a sufficient loss of value. Less bang for the buck. Journalist are staying far away from the fraud that was reported from securities commission. Why is that when it involves one of the largest banks on the street? Throw a blanket over reality well be alright. YOU THINK? On course for a CRASH-ATHON, video to follow.
PoorandUglyMessage #3127 - 12/08/10 05:51 PMSo remind me why we're arguing? You like collecting the metaphorical dividends that I'm paying you (which cost me nothing), and I don't mind giving them to you. I like collecting the ever-increasing monetary dividends that the multinational corporations are paying me, and you don't object to my receiving them (do you?). I'm even willing to be "obtuse", as long as the dividends keep going up. Seems to me that all is well.How sad. I remind you of nothing but for why we argue. Nor to I give one rat's behind either. What is fascinating is your hubris, arrogance and greed has blinded you and I feel no obligation, amicable or otherwise to shed any light to you otherwise. You are so thick it is beyond belief. Ergo, it is so sad the more you talk back to me, the more pathetically laughable you are to me. Jackasses seem to have more upstairs then you. LMAO. You cannot buy a hint for the life of you no matter how many "dividends" you collect in this life or the next. I would say buy a clue pal. But you may need a whopping bailout instead.
PoorandUglyMessage #3128 - 12/08/10 05:57 PMI think that it actually goes; "Heads I win. Tails you lose." Umn, I don't think so.
wizzozsMessage #3129 - 12/08/10 06:07 PMReality as it is. Argue what? I dont use this trread to degrade character. PURPOSE? I just didnt plan on my tax money paying my dividend. Keep bailing,bailing,bailing. OR?
BGA4444Message #3130 - 12/10/10 02:59 AMDecoy, here it is, except for the rise in the market this post could be dated today!
djrickMessage #3131 - 12/10/10 03:37 PMTJX (TJ Maxx) eliminating 4400 jobs. 
BGA4444Message #3132 - 12/10/10 04:09 PMThe trade deficit should continue to tighten. As the bottom 80% of wage earners has less and less money to spend.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:17:57 GMT -5
space guruMessage #3133 - 12/10/10 04:50 PMNo recession here in the United States! 5 straight consecutive positive Gross Domestic Product quarters? Unemployment stabilized at 9.6% plus or minus .2% or so? Unemployment claims the lowest its been in 4 years. GM & Chrysler double digit sales and hiring? About 1 million auto jobs and an entire US Auto Industry saved from the bailout? Trucks outsold cars by the highest margin in nearly 5 years in Oct a sign the economy has improved. Stock market comeback from 6800 in March 09' to over 11,000 in Feb 2010? Construction hiring and bank funding on the rise? More than half of the banks have paid back the TARP to the tune of a $26 billion profit for Obama and company? An overall broad improvement of consumer confidence improvement? Consumer spending up August, September and October 2010? 36% of CEO's announced they will be hiring over the next 12 months? Layoffs in the private sector dropped to their lowest levels in 4 years? UPS will pick up 50,000 seasonal workers? Volume of business loans grew by 16% outpacing last year? Apple, Netflix, Caterpillar, Ford and retail stocks defy the laws of negative economics. And tax cuts for 95% of Americans and they don't even know they got it!
neohguyMessage #3134 - 12/10/10 04:52 PMwww.hellenicshippingnews.com/new/2010/12/10/u-s-households-continue-to-cut-their-debts/ U.S. households continue to cut their debts Friday, December 10th, 2010 U.S. households reduced their debt for the 10th straight quarter, and businesses continued to hoard record amounts of cash, underscoring a lack of demand holding back the U.S. economy, according to new data from the Federal Reserve.
The central bank·s ·flow of funds· report showed that household debt fell at an annual rate of 1.75% in the third quarter to $13.4 trillion.
Net household wealth rose slightly, up $1.2 trillion to $54.9 trillion, largely because of rising stock prices.
Yet net wealth is almost 17% below a historical peak of $65.9 trillion set in the second quarter of 2007. Net wealth equals total assets such as stocks, bonds, real estate minus liabilities such as mortgages and credit-card debt.
U.S. companies, meanwhile, stored $1.93 trillion in cash and short-term assets at the end of the third quarter, up from $1.8 trillion. That·s the highest level since the central bank began record keeping in 1952.Until consumers and businesses start to spend more, the U.S. is unlikely to grow very fast or quickly reduce the nation·s 9.8% unemployment rate, economists say. The U.S. is on track to expand at a 2.5% rate in 2010.
In response to slack demand, governments at every level have stepped up spending over the past few years, though mostly by increasing debt that will eventually have to be paid back.
State and local debt, after falling 1.5% in the second quarter, rose at a 5.5% annual rate in the third quarter. Federal debt grew at a rapid 16% rate.
Total government debt rose to $11.5 trillion from $11.1 trillion in the second quarter.
Government debt could rise again in 2011 unless Washington sharply cuts spending. U.S. lawmakers may soon pass another major package of tax cuts and spending on benefits such as unemployment benefits to try to goose the economy.
The goal is to get consumers and businesses spending again. Economists say the U.S. could grow much faster if companies start investing their cash stockpiles and consumers feel free to buy more goods and services after several years of reducing their debts.
neohguyMessage #3135 - 12/10/10 05:14 PMwww.hellenicshippingnews.com/new/2010/12/10/world-is-getting-more-corrupt-says-transparency-poll/ World is getting more corrupt, says transparency poll The world is considered a more corrupt place now than it was three years ago, a poll suggests.
Some 56% of people interviewed by Transparency International said their country had become more corrupt.
The organisation put Afghanistan, Nigeria, Iraq and India in the most corrupt category, followed by China, Russia and much of the Middle East.
Meanwhile, a BBC poll suggests that corruption is the world·s most talked about problem.
About one in five of those polled by the BBC said they had discussed issues relating to corruption with others in the last month, making it the most talked about concern ahead of climate change, poverty, unemployment and rising food and energy costs.In the Transparency International survey, political parties were regarded as the most corrupt institutions, and 50% of people believed their government was ineffective at tackling the problem.
One in four of those polled said they had paid a bribe in the past year · the police being the most common recipient.
Some 29% of bribes went to the police, 20% to registry and permit officials, and 14% to members of the judiciary.
Political parties have long been regarded as the most corrupt institutions · they topped the list in Transparency·s 2004 barometer with 71%. In this year·s report, 80% regarded them as corrupt.
Religious bodies experienced a sharp rise in people regarding them as corrupt · 28% in 2004 increased to 53% by 2010.
People from Afghanistan, Nigeria, Iraq and India were among those who perceived the highest levels of corruption in their daily lives.
At least half of the people surveyed in those countries reported paying a bribe in the past year.
While people from Cambodia (84%) and Liberia (89%) were the most likely to have to pay a bribe, the Danish reported 0% bribery.
Robin Hodess, Transparency·s policy and research director, expressed particular concern at the figures on bribery.·Unfortunately people·s experience with bribery most often involves the police, and this is really worrying,· she said.
·It·s a figure that·s grown in the past few years. It·s nearly doubled, in fact, since 2006. Nearly one in three people who had contact with the police around the world had to pay a bribe.·
By region, people in sub-Saharan Africa were the most likely to have paid a bribe (56%).
Bribe taking was least common in EU countries and North America (both 5%) · although these were the two regions seeing the biggest increase in concern about corruption.
Analysts blame this rising concern on the global financial crisis for undermining people·s faith in government, banks and economic institutions.
The lobby group interviewed 90,000 people in 86 countries to compile its corruption barometer.
Poverty
The opinion poll commissioned by the BBC sampled 13,000 people in 26 nations.
One question asked people to rate which issues they saw as most serious.
Corruption was ranked as the second most important topic behind poverty.
Respondents in Brazil, Egypt, Colombia, the Philippines and Kenya were especially likely to view corruption as a very serious issue.
In Europe, Italians were the most concerned about bribe taking.
Publication of the BBC poll coincides with anti-corruption day held by the United Nations.
PoorandUglyMessage #3136 - 12/10/10 10:05 PMReligious bodies experienced a sharp rise in people regarding them as corrupt · 28% in 2004 increased to 53% by 2010. While the rest of your article is interesting but of no surprise to me, Neo, this is a new development I had no idea about it. Meaning, I had no idea that the rate of change over the time period given for perception of religious bodies changed so drastically. You know what a solution to this is? If they truly want to aim to be less corrupt, at least here in US, remove the tax exempt status given for them and let them contribute more by paying their fair share of taxes into society.
common_sense.Message #3137 - 12/11/10 09:55 AMNo recession here in the United States! 5 straight consecutive positive Gross Domestic Product quarters? Can you trust any number from the Govt now a days? Unemployment stabilized at 9.6% plus or minus .2% or so? U-6?: Nov. 2010 17% www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm GM & Chrysler double digit sales and hiring? GM inventory booked as sales; the more cars they make the more they have sold? GM inventory rose month over in Nov by 26,000, giving GM an 11% sales increase year over. Had the inventory not risen by 26,000 vehicles GM would have reported a 3% year over LOSS. NOT GOOD FOR THE IPO!! - make more cars!! Trucks outsold cars by the highest margin in nearly 5 years in Oct a sign the economy has improved They have done a great job of marketing the most overpriced vehicle to the dumbest consumer. Taking $5,000 off of a truck priced at $40,000 isn't a deal when the truck should have sold for $30,000 at best. What do you think will happed to the "recovery" when gas hits $3.50 a gallon nationally?(some people never learn) Stock market comeback from 6800 in March 09' to over 11,000 in Feb 2010? The fact that the market rose over 77% on the lowest volume ever was even more incredible, maybe even highly questionable. That is until we learned who BRIAN SACK is and what a POMO was. More than half of the banks have paid back the TARP to the tune of a $26 billion profit for Obama and company? How much FREE money did they borrow to buy TREASURIES to make FREE MONEY? please stop! An overall broad improvement of consumer confidence improvement? Consumer spending up August, September and October 2010? someone make this guy stop! please more manufactured data. 36% of CEO's announced they will be hiring over the next 12 months? retirements? what about the other 64%?? Volume of business loans grew by 16% outpacing last year? loans for growth or survival? Apple, Netflix, Caterpillar, Ford and retail stocks defy the laws of negative economics didn't we just do this in 2000? back then it was called "irrational exuberation" and closed with a crash. Is Ford really worth $16.73 when it's debts are higher today than ever in it's history? And tax cuts for 95% of Americans and they don't even know they got it! Zero sum game: it just extended what they already had ----- hoo-rah. If the economy is as good you say it is why are they adding what amounts to be stimulus to the tax extension bill?
BGA4444Message #3138 - 12/11/10 03:34 PMCommon, Great points! I agree with you. Space G failed to mention the Dow closed just under 11000 in Dec of 1999. Unless you were a day trader, who can make money no matter which way the markets go, adjusted for inflation your $100,000 invested in 1999 has the buying power of about $75,000 today. That is not less fees which at 2% a year takes off another $20,000 or so. That would make your $100,000 worth about $55,000 today. Unless you talk to any broker like Frank who's customers lost nothing and even made money. A great salesman always paints a pretty, positive, and wonderful picture of what they are selling. I am on the front lines of business. I live it everyday. The economy is in pure shreds. The negative trends continue believe me I see them every month! The foreclosure crisis is actually accelerating. It will continue to drive values down. My girlfriend Suzy is trying to sell some rental property in north Atlanta. The home is nice new paint, carpet, and roof. She just lowered the price from 129K to 109k and now 99K. Not the first offer! No wonder the agents are all going broke! I work with a bunch of them. The majority have taken on part time jobs just to eat. Many have left the industry totally. All I can tell you is "Make no mistake, we are still in a depression! I do not care what the GDP #s are! Remember figures lie and liars figure!
rjslrsMessage #3139 - 12/11/10 06:43 PMMy contact in Caterpillar paints a very different picture of things. He says there are NO sales happening, some rental, a good deal of that being done between contractors. They are operating with a skeleton staff, with the official word of: no more being hired. Even the secretaries were sent home. They have to do their own secretarial work. My wife works in the grocery business and it is DEAD, the vendors that supply them say it is that way everywhere. This is the first year ever, that her store has not had any seasonal help. Apparently this is what a recovery looks like.
BGA4444Message #3140 - 12/11/10 07:27 PMWell rjslrs, I guess we really know what a jobless recovery looks like! Except for the market I really do not see recovery anywhere! Cash for clunkers, home buyer credit, food stamps, and long term extended unemployment benefits. All- everyone of those things are band aides. None of them addressee the problem that we need manufacturing jobs back in America. Those idiots in Washington do not have a clue! Federal government deadbeats no way to pay back the debt. State governments deadbeats no way to pay back the debt!
rjslrsMessage #3141 - 12/11/10 07:58 PMBGA: This guy had a "deer in the headlights look", you could tell he was stretched thin. They are at a skeleton staff level where he is, yet they are sending people from his location just to keep another one open (one that was just built a couple years ago). On a brighter note (sarcasm) The imperial state of Illinois has vowed to have the school funding for LAST fiscal year caught up by the first of Jan..............of course they say nothing about any money for the current fiscal year (which there has not been any yet).
common_sense.Message #3142 - 12/11/10 09:15 PMThe foreclosure crisis is actually accelerating absolutely!! here in my part of NY we never saw a boom. However a national builder in a local development is resposible for 7 empty home in foreclosure. This is out of 70 homes - 10% of the development and there were other builders houses in there! Existing home sales in October dropped over 30% and in November the drop was another 24%. As the stimulus wanes, just as those spoke of it, so does the economy. As the FED continues buying Govt debt instead of the Govt charging hard into austerity, the dollar will keep falling. There will be moments of joy as the dollar strengthens due to European woes, but the march over the long haul will be to the bottom. Keep in mind France's Sarkozy takes over at the IMF next year and he is NO FAN of the U.S. Dollar as reserve currency. States are a hopeless cause. Just a matter of time until they finally call it what it is: Global Depression.
BGA4444Message #3143 - 12/11/10 09:23 PMRj, same bad news here. We were doing about 20 million a year before the crisis. I was/ still am the retail business manager. I had six fulltime employees and managed our two locations. However, now I work at one location six days a week hoping things will improve. We are hanging on by a thread- like many small businesses. Now myself and one employee working six days a week at the other location. We have cut pay no bonuses, no insurance, and are just trying to hang on till things improve. We will probably do about 2.5 million this year. It is only down 87.5% vs the high! Most consumers are shopping for the very best deal. Margins have fallen to the floor. I have never seen so many competitive bids in the 10-13% margin range. At those margins it just barely covers operational cost. But to get the job and keep the guys working we beat any invoiced bid. It has been H A R D!!!!
neohguyMessage #3144 - 12/11/10 09:29 PMWhile the rest of your article is interesting but of no surprise to me, Neo, this is a new development I had no idea about it. Meaning, I had no idea that the rate of change over the time period given for perception of religious bodies changed so drastically. I think it also applies to the media. Senator Bernie Sanders (I Vermont) was fillibusting the tax breaks yesterday. I didn't see it reported in most main st media. I found out about it when one of my kids sent me an email.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:18:49 GMT -5
frank the impalerMessage #3145 - 12/11/10 09:58 PMBGA4444-Is this is what goes on here when "I" am not reading you?? "Common, Great points! I agree with you. Space G failed to mention the Dow closed just under 11000 in Dec of 1999. Unless you were a day trader, who can make money no matter which way the markets go, adjusted for inflation your $100,000 invested in 1999 has the buying power of about $75,000 today." Now that piece right there takes the cake I have posted...numerous times...the funds that "I" use which have doubled in value in that ten year time frame you referenced....and that is a net number which includes the maximum sales charge Inflation you can't do nothing about....but doubling your money every 7-10 years (depending on your stress or suitability level) should be your bench mark...if YOU can't do that YOU should give a piece to someone who can That is not less fees which at 2% a year takes off another $20,000 or so. I If you are paying 2% your paying too much...you should be able to find an advisor who has a clean U4 who can show his/her numbers for the last ten years and charge around 1-1.5% and it should be tax deductible! Unless you talk to any broker like Frank who's customers lost nothing and even made money. A great salesman always paints a pretty, positive, and wonderful picture of what they are selling. I am on the front lines of business. I live it everyday I have clients who haven't "bought" anything in over 25 years!...they still own their original investments...but they do pay to do asset allocation, risk management, sector rotation positioning, seasonality programs and many many specialized income producing strategies BGA4444-I have 2 stops in Alabama, 1 outside of Atlanta on my way to a MT board participant...in Trenton SC....if you want me to stop off and see you and Suzy...it would be my pleasure...then you can tell all of the Impaler
common_sense.Message #3146 - 12/12/10 06:12 AMInflation you can't do nothing about....but doubling your money every 7-10 years That's the same thing the 401(k) peddlers told us in the 1980's. Guess what? IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! if YOU can't do that YOU should give a piece to someone who can You haven't done SPLUNK!!! We had the Greenspan "PUT" for 20 years followed by "mad Ben's helicopter drops" come Frankie we are in DEPRESSION because of Central banking bllsht to persistently prop markets up with free money. You rode a wave of unsustainable economic policy of ponzification. www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/greenspan-put.asp Only five months into his tenure as [www.investopedia.com/terms/f/frb.asp] Federal Reserve Chairman, [www.investopedia.com/terms/a/alangreenspan.asp] Alan Greenspan faced his first crisis: the October 1987 stock market [www.investopedia.com/terms/c/crash.asp] crash. In a move that would become the hallmark of his tenure, Greenspan lowered the federal funds rate by 50 basis points, restoring order to the markets and giving investors confidence that the Federal Reserve would take decisive action when financial crises came to a head. It was not until approximately ten years later that the term "[www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greenspanput.asp] Greenspan put" would enter the investment lexicon formally. Greenspan's willingness to lower the federal funds rate during challenging economic periods, such as the 1987 stock market crash, the 1990-1991 recession, LTCM, The Asian Contagion, the unwinding of the Nasdaq bubble and the period following the September 11 attacks created the perception that, so long as Greenspan remained chairman of the Fed, monetary policy would come to the rescue - hence, the "Greenspan put."
Free money now, worry about it later. Guess what? later is here.
BGA4444Message #3147 - 12/12/10 11:16 AMThe mother of all bubbles! Trillions thrown at the market! Frank, you have been talking about the bond guys for a long time "Going back to their cave". Gold at all time highs and market almost doubling from the lows. Where in recorded history has the three ever skyrocketed like the last 18 months? I am very concerned! Baby boomers retiring everyday. Federal, state, and local governments broke. They are broke with unpayable- U N P A Y A B L E retirement and health obligations! Frank, where do you think all this money is going to come from? Have you seen the income allocations for the top twenty percent of wage earners versus the bottom eighty percent? The twenty five year trend is scary as hell! Check it out on The who rules America website! This thing is turning into the top 20% haves and the bottom 80% have-nots! I am more afraid for this country right now than I was when I posted this thread two years ago! Did you see the riots in London over increases in college tuition? Just how bad do you think it is going to be when it is over food or jobs? I just have this gut awful feeling something very bad is about to happen. I hope I am wrong! I hope I am wrong because of my children and Grandchildren. American federal, state, and local governments being called deadbeats. Those " deadbeats" are the ones holding up the markets. What a house of cards! Paying the interest alone to our creditors will bankrupt us! What 13 going to 16 trillion dollar debt? The interest to service the debt must be taxed and pulled out of the economy each year? How do they pull that much out of this "great" economy? Frank right now "cash is King". If I miss a couple of years of double digit growth then so be it. Frank, this may be a southern term- but "locks are there to keep honest people honest" right now there are no locks on the markets. There is so much money there being guided by a lot of really smart people who I believe become dishonest because of the shear amounts of money. Do you believe Bernie wishes he could go back? Is any amount of money worth losing your son over? I actually feel sorry for the people who are so money drunk that they will risk "everything" for a dollar. Evil begets evil, the loss of Bernie's son began with that first dishonest action. Frank I believe you are a good guy. You call for public hangings of dishonest companies and individuals. It would be very difficult to do that were your closet not pretty clean. So with that said when you head to Atlanta let me know and maybe we can meet for lunch. Please feel free to answer any or all of my questions!
time2shareMessage #3148 - 12/12/10 06:29 PMAs December 15th gets closer Sear's just laid of 240 more part time employees........and fired 60 for lower saleried positions and delaying hiring.....Sear is really doing bad......Lines at the registers are not because of more shoppers they are because of no sales help and fewer registers open...Do not be fooled when all the numbers are finally in this holiday season a best it will be flat........But I say it feels like 1.2-2.3% lower than last season. THE Shopper / Consumers are not BACK ...The media blitz is trying to convince anyone it can of it......and just like this recent temporay up tick in the markets this will also leave pie in their faces, Screeming Wolf TOOOOOO Many times! Wait until the end of January, lets see everybody that said they were hiring 2-4K people....Let's hear where will they be at ...EATING THEIR WORDS!!!! As the markets get ready to retrench and retreat from the false expectations..The markets will drop fast and hard..........Get OUT while you can NOW.......!!!!!
decoy409Message #3149 - 12/12/10 08:05 PMcommon sense, I see why you choose that name by this alone! Inflation you can't do nothing about....but doubling your money every 7-10 years
That's the same thing the 401(k) peddlers told us in the 1980's. Guess what? IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! if YOU can't do that YOU should give a piece to someone who can
You haven't done SPLUNK!!! We had the Greenspan "PUT" for 20 years followed by "mad Ben's helicopter drops" come Frankie we are in DEPRESSION because of Central banking bllsht to persistently prop markets up with free money. You rode a wave of unsustainable economic policy of ponzification. I would say that is calling the kettle black. 
BGA4444Message #3150 - 12/12/10 09:12 PMDecoy, you found my little thread! But you, I believe have posted on it before- Haven't you?
frank the impalerMessage #3151 - 12/12/10 09:57 PMBGA4444-Don't be so impressed with the king of Market Crashers! I'll be back with rebuttal
frank the impalerMessage #3152 - 12/13/10 03:52 AMBGA4444-yes we are living in interesting times and records can be set or broken, but it doesn't matter a lick Actually I have said it many times but I will put it in your thread....81 years....17 recessions (some people think what we are in is not a recession...lets save that for another day)...every 4-5 years coming out of a recession the market performs double digit returns...every one...every time...is this time different....not so far Would you at least change some of your investment decisions IF you invested based on what I just told you and did it successfully a few times?...I think so...cause you would know what to expect . If baby boomers saved they will be OK ...if they didn't they'll be screwed just like anyone else...but whose responsibility is that to save for ones self...the government?...I think not The 80%/20% rule has always been just the way it is now...with the exception that more and more of the 20% are stealing their way into that percentile I know lots of honest people who work with lots of money and we don't live lavashily, we sponsored more charitable events and gave away more money in the last two years and it brings joy to people...just like making money. But there is another side to lots of money... a dark side its like a pit bull some people have them and they are love/lap dogs...some people have them and they are angry and are attack dogs...you them when you meet them The Republic will be fine and we will as a country emerge stronger and better...right after China implodes next year!
common_sense.Message #3153 - 12/13/10 08:32 AMThe Republic will be fine and we will as a country emerge stronger and better...right after China implodes next year! You think China imploding will be our savior? think again! NO MANUFACTURER IS LEAVING CHINA, EVER! if they try they will be NATIONALIZED! any trouble in China from inflation will eventually be exported back to us. The republic is very ill, greed and corruption is our cancer and it shows no signs of abatement. Credit was our morphine that disguised the pain of the massive job losses, printing fake dollars is now our life support. What the hell is next? The only true cure is absolute austerity which would be very very painful. Millions more would be out of work, pensions rolled back, salaries slashed, markets would tank and the sky would be dark for years but in the end we would see the sun again. Politics will never put on us on that path until they are forced into it; by then we are talking decades of stagnation. ....81 years....17 recessions (some people think what we are in is not a recession...lets save that for another day)...every 4-5 years coming out of a recession the market performs double digit returns...every one...every time...is this time different....not so far We have never had a credit bubble collapse in 81 years. Ben is using Keynesian economics whereby the government fills the gap of the economic losses; his ZIRP didn't work like past recessions. He is a student of the depression, you know that! His contributions are now in the trillions climbing. U-6 is at 17%, the same figure used up until 1994; never in any other RECESSION has unemployment been so high. There is no true recovery but a dead cat bounce on stimulus. Housing is headed down and if you read some of the other threads we hear Caterpillar is hanging on by a thread, empty houses are showing up everywhere, layoff are still occurring, GM sales are a sham. Look at defense contractors for a bright spot (or a low spot if your the taxpayer). You peddle financial wares. The true market showed itself in Feb of 2009. That's when they threw everything at the markets to keep it from reflecting the true state of the nation. You know this and you know the POMOs going off are inflating the market with taxpayer dollars. It's all a sham - smoke and mirrors. Its only a matter of time before we are forced to "turn and face the strange" and it will not be pretty.
common_sense.Message #3154 - 12/13/10 12:35 PMWelcome to Recoveryland: Rosa's had been around for a long time selling appliances and furniture : [ www.buffalonews.com/business/article280611.ece] www.buffalonews.com/business/article280611.ece AJ Wright closing 4 local stores and laying of 4400 nationwide: [ www.buffalonews.com/business/article280440.ece] www.buffalonews.com/business/article280440.ece Its starting to go down hill here in a place that is already a service economy. Many newer homes around here are coming up empty as the job losses mount.
frank the impalerMessage #3155 - 12/13/10 02:17 PMI didn't see any fair and balance equal postings to jobs being offered and plans to hire Is that because you only see your side and your not fair and balanced?...thought so
time2shareMessage #3156 - 12/13/10 06:27 PMGreatest Depression ever.....NO, NOT YET IT IS STILL DROPPING!!!! WAIT UNTIL IT HITS BOTTOM!!!! The Ebb and Flow is due to the government artificially injecting money EVERYWHERE and nothing else!!! The Consumer is on life support and those that are working are barely hanging on to the Christmas Spirit......The temporary boost in spending might keep some stores breaking even but not gaining ground....IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME NOW FOR THE BOTTOM TO DROP OFF.......THE ARTIFICIAL ECONOMY is about to end and inflation, stagnation and depression are about to grip the club and take a BIG STROKE CHOKE HOLD ON US.....GET READY!!!!! THIS MARKET UPTICK IS A RUSE ...DO NOT BE FOOLED.......IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MONEY NOW, BUY BLOCKBUSTER AND KEEP SHORTING NETFLIX!
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:19:42 GMT -5
usa oneMessage #3157 - 12/13/10 06:35 PMBuy Blockbuster and short netflix? Are you serious?
frank the impalerMessage #3158 - 12/13/10 08:52 PMusa one- I think that was satire
common_sense.Message #3159 - 12/13/10 10:48 PMI didn't see any fair and balance equal postings to jobs being offered and plans to hire [ articles.moneycentral.msn.com/news/article.aspx?Feed=OBR&Date=20101213&ID=12506524&Symbol=GM] GM offers skilled-worker buyouts at 14 plants General Motors Co said on Monday that it was looking to reduce its payroll by several thousand skilled trade workers at 14 U.S. plants in the first quarter of 2011. Wow, how's that for "forward looking"?
wizzozsMessage #3160 - 12/14/10 01:42 AMWith the feds buying debt or bailing out wall street, probably means that some one was then bankrupt, or close to the bottom. Stimulas needed to be injected into stocks or they would have crashed. Our debt presently at a number beyond belief, and growing as I post this. Government ready to add another incredible amount that will need to be financed by China. Gas taxes going up. State budgets are in the red and close to bankruptcy. Fighting wars in two locations with very little financial help from other countries. I am just trying to figure out how we will get out of this, Republicans will try to cut as many benefits absolutely needed by Americans to survive. myself I dont see any indicators that would fuel our current status, including the markets. We are running out of the fuel we need to sustain growth. We are in a manipulated state and holding by a thread. I didnt evan include a individuals survival costs. Health(30% of income),insurance, local taxes,food , utilities and so on. Where are the savings people have? Nothing saved for retirement, or not enough saved. Lack of jobs, and still have corporations moving out. Where are the indicators needed to increase growth. I just dont see them, as I see artifical stimulas fueling our economy. What next?
BGA4444Message #3161 - 12/14/10 12:32 PMHome values like jobs are a trailing indicator. Economist pointed out this morning that home values like jobs will be very slow to recover. Georgia, for the sixth straight month has increasing tax revenue. These increases were led by real-estate taxes going up and corporate income taxes. Whew-woo looks like more money being sucked out of what is left of the American economy. Side note- bad news, two more of my competitors are going out of business. One stocked a lot of high end carpets and we are buying his inventory at pennies on the dollar. One of the other's employees came by to see me yesterday to see if we could use some help. He has been off and on unemployment for three years now. He is on social security also and just barely getting by! I wish I had good news to report. But you know there is just not any.
neohguyMessage #3162 - 12/14/10 12:57 PMBGA, my company went through a similar situation during the past fifteen years. If you live while your competition is going belly up then your business may provide a decent living for the employees for many years. Good luck guy. Manufacturing is not coming back in the near term for my area and I'm afraid housing is in the same boat for now in your area.
BGA4444Message #3163 - 12/14/10 02:57 PMNeo, thanks we are trying to hang in there. Really nothing much left to cut. We are currently trying to negotiate a new lease at our other location. We have been offered a much better location at 40% off what we are currently paying including CAM-Common Area Maintenance. They are also offering four months free rent for the build out. Really just paint and flooring- both very cheap for us. We are trying to find a reason to stay and there is not one. The new location is busy rd. frontage across from Starbucks and Mcdonalds in front of one of the largest subdivisions in the state. I told the owner it is a no brainer! Moving is just a pain and we have been in the other locale for 12 years. Hey I was looking at the debt clock this a.m. with America's 81 million families and 43 million of them being on food stamps just what the heck is Washington doing? Are the politicians secretly trying to take this country down? I am wondering if it is time to take the country back from those who would destroy us! Take it back by vote or force if necessary!
time2shareMessage #3164 - 12/14/10 06:08 PMThe first casualty of what's to come..BestBuy; Missed projections and declared "NO VISIBILITY".......and GM to offer early retirement to its legacy workers using it's new IPO money to destroy and not create...These worker will use the money to catch up with there bills, credit cards and utility and then what?.......look for the market to correct 800 pts again soon as more companies sales disappoint!!!!!Look for more take over candidates as sales and market share drops for domestic brands as new market entry foreign companies whip out long standing domestic competitors. This cycle will continue taking jobs and further destroying the American family structure. The media is still pushing the Hype with the "A Stronger Economy" Cover story as the government continues to Pump up the markets as a National Security issue.......Because seeing Capitalism be dragged down by WALL STREET'S Common GREED is Unthinkable.........China's trying to parlay the opportunity buy our debt's and undermining our economic stability.......
BGA4444Message #3165 - 12/14/10 06:20 PMWhen you owe the company store more than you make, you are in trouble. Right now China is our company store!
time2shareMessage #3166 - 12/14/10 06:25 PMLook for Adobe to disappoint as discounts do not work and sales are sacraficed for 15% lower margins. Since home equity is under water the only thing the FED can inflate are stocks.....in the interm the 18% increase from the Low's will be whiped out by inflation in 2011.....QE2 is not working and as liquidity does not led to jobs
DumDeeDoeMessage #3167 - 12/15/10 04:40 AMCompany liquidity may help the company expand into areas not conducive to American job growth, but it may help the company offset loss of consumers by improved bottom line,thus helping equity growth.
BGA4444Message #3168 - 12/15/10 02:45 PMMore really bad and sad news! Never before have the people who open and answer Christmas cards to Santa seen so many cards where the children are asking for socks, underwear and shoes. Many even are asking for presents for their parents, like coats! Jobless recovery! Until there are jobs at fair wages there will be no recovery for main st.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:20:34 GMT -5
PoorandUglyMessage #3169 - 12/15/10 03:17 PMOne of the lowest things someone can do is play with words when individuals, especially parents' livehilhoods and/or their lives along with their kids' lives depend upon those words. The play with words is that this latest tax deal that is being brokered is completely misleading. No, it is not misleading. IT IS A LIE. The 13 month unemployment extension is NOT an extension of unemployment benefits for those most in need. They will still get squat and be left to rot. The plan only extends the existing TIERS in place til end of 2011. That's it! So 99er's and many other long term unemployed are still sol. They desperately need additional meager funds of pittances of unemployment just to SURVIVE to get them through until there are enough jobs out there again in this country. For the President to deceive the public otherwise with these words of an "extension" as if this negotiation is going to help them is very LOW I must say. Tell that to the people who have already exhausted all means of help left to rot if not already lose it all in the streets or god knows where. Obama, the Obamination is a charlatan. But he sure as hell is a good politician. That's for sure.
wizzozsMessage #3170 - 12/16/10 01:46 AMALERT! Wall Street your conduct is super magnified as Investors question investment ethics. I really think your going on a wild ride as a result. Stay Tuned! Caution retirement investors. Its modern day reality, with ethics foreign to current conduct.
BGA4444Message #3171 - 12/16/10 11:59 AMGeorgia's unemployment spikes to 10.1% end november vs. 9.8% in October. Blue skies shining on me- right Frank! With the 99ers losing all lifelines, the economy, who's only true stimulus has been the unemployment benefits, is about to be dealt a death blow!
neohguyMessage #3172 - 12/16/10 12:30 PMIT IS A LIE. The cotton candy crowd, all fluf, little substance, likes the lies. Georgia's unemployment spikes to 10.1% end november vs. 9.8% in October. Blue skies shining on me- right Frank! With the 99ers losing all lifelines, the economy, who's only true stimulus has been the unemployment benefits, is about to be dealt a death blow! I was critical of this thread when you started it. I accused you of whining because at that time I felt that the economy would not dive like it did in the early 80's. My apologies. It's worse (even though I personally have not been hurt much this time). There are far fewer upward bound choices for the Lt UE this time.
BGA4444Message #3173 - 12/16/10 01:19 PMNeo, apology accepted. I have a great deal of respect for you and your opinions. Since the start I have been on the front line of this thing. I believe being in close contact with builders and retail customers gave me first hand insight into the fall. My standard of living much like yours has really not been affected by this thing. I have had to cut back on some of the luxuries- like eating out so much. But overall not much change. I am having to work more for less money. But I am very blessed to still be working, when many others are not. I feel the country is in much worse shape today than two years ago when this thread was started. There is ways out but we must hurry. I feel like it must be a technological breakthrough which the world will buy from us instantly. Without some new items to sell I am afraid there is little hope for our once great country! None and I mean none of the stimulus does more than provide a band aide for a country that is hemorrhaging wealth. We need good jobs at fair wages and there just aren't any! I hope one day we can pull up this thread and laugh. But I have a feeling the joke is on us!
wizzozsMessage #3174 - 12/16/10 03:32 PMAs I have money invested in the markets for retirement as other Americans also invested with the same intentions, I view the bonuses as under cutting my dividend on my investment. There is an ethical matter that exists with this proceedure. Why do peolpe recieve bonuses on stimulas money from the taxpayers? Our governing body still leaves open doors for corporations to gouge the public. These bonuses far exceed the typical bonus for a common citizen. I think I need to change my strategy in investments and not participate in stocks that pay out such large bonuses.
PoorandUglyMessage #3175 - 12/16/10 03:55 PMAs I have money invested in the markets for retirement as other Americans also invested with the same intentions, I view the bonuses as under cutting my dividend on my investment. At least you know when you are being taken. I envy the ones who don't. They weren't kidding when they said, "Ignorance is bliss." You cannot reason with these people like you cannot reason with a friend who just discovered he thought he was so smart but wound up buying a lemon instead from the car salesman. That is, unless he gets a BAILOUT FOR HIS ACTIONS. Next to vanity, pride is my next favorite sin. You don't need to take Psychology 101 in some fancy Ivy League expensive fascist institution to teach that.
wizzozsMessage #3176 - 12/16/10 04:26 PMI guess i will continue to search for a structured institution that I can actually trust with my lifes savings. This endeavor may take some time to research. WHAT A COUNTRY as the famous russian stated. Now I wonder what country he was talking about? How about we keep our liberties within a ethical scope. Now thats a novel idea.
common_sense.Message #3177 - 12/16/10 06:20 PMI accused you of whining because at that time I felt that the economy would not dive like it did in the early 80's. My apologies The key is if you are capable of talking with folks nationwide you tend get a bigger picture of the overall economy. In my area we have had layoffs and joblessness consistent with recessions. Listening to the talking heads I would have no reason to believe otherwise. However when I talk with businessman from around the nation they have told me they are trying to hang on but their outlook isn't good. The last company I worked for supplied the specialty advertising field. With over 800 products offered in the U.S. and Canada the products amounted to nothing more than mainly gifts and giveaways. Only for about 8 weeks (Late Oct. through 2 week of Dec. do they work 40 hours for christmas (a far cry from the overtime worked before the 2008 meltdown). Management took a 10% pay cut in late 2008 and they starting working 4 days a week. Only once in a blue moon will they work a Friday outside of christmas season. Do the math and they took more than a 30% pay cut. I was told they do not see a recovery anytime soon (they have salesman all over the U.S.).
Crying TreeMessage #3178 - 12/16/10 06:35 PMI don't know about this depression anymore. My welfare neighbors just inherited a fortune. I got shove around and road blocked in every aisle Christmas shopping. The line for check out was longer than the soup line. Traffic was double hell. The good news. My stocks are going up.
wizzozsMessage #3179 - 12/16/10 09:42 PMYour tax money contributed to your raise in stocks, so in reality you paid your own dividend. We will still have x=mas but money being spent will be reduced. One could call it an illusion.
BGA4444Message #3180 - 12/17/10 05:57 PMWell there you have it. The economy is in absolute shreds on the brink of collapse.If not they would have never approved this! We are broke, bankrupt, and unable to even make interest payments on the debt it is so large. The political idiots in Washington are so out of touch with what the hell is going on their answer- borrow more money for our children and grandchildren to repay. If the economy is doing so damn good why would they do this? All this is more blood to a body that is bleeding out. Nearly half of both dems and Repubs voted no, so what exactly do their no votes tell you? I will tell you what; all the Bipartisan no votes tell me - this is a bad plan, it will not help, and will only get us deeper in debt. 6600 earmarks going to the exact same people who get earmarks every time. The people who have jobs do not need help. GET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT OF WORK A JOB YOU FRIGGING IDIOTS! We just need some people in Washington who are not so intelligent. They are so smart they will ride this pony to the ground. I sit here now just shaking my head. They have a 13% approval rate in congress and yet we the people sent 80% of incumbents back. What the hell were you voters thinking?
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:21:27 GMT -5
DriftrMessage #3181 - 12/17/10 06:15 PMWe are broke, bankrupt, and unable to even make interest payments on the debt it is so large. The bolded part is an outright lie. borrow more money for our children and grandchildren to repay. We're not going to repay any of this. Neither will our children or grandchildren. They will, however, need to continue to service the debt the way we have.
PoorandUglyMessage #3182 - 12/17/10 06:20 PMWe just need some people in Washington who are not so intelligent. Absolutely, they are too smart for their own good and our own sake. I plead to every American voter out there for the next election cycle to write in the name, "HOMER SIMPSON", for every office up for reelection from the President on downward in 2012. Get out the word starting now. Start a chain letter now. Let it go viral and get ingrained in many Americans' minds. The early bird catches the worm. You cannot get this trend making an impact by starting only 2 months before hand. The earlier the better. Best to start now.
BGA4444Message #3183 - 12/17/10 06:35 PMOh sorry Driftr, It should read we can continue to borrow the money to make the interest payments on the debt we owe! You sir are correct the devil is in the details! I hope the correction makes you feel better. It really doesn't do much for me! Driftr, have you seen the Debt clock? The state, local and federal pension funds liabilities are so big along with the unfunded Social security and Medicare liabilities are so large there is no way to pay them. Plus add on a now 15 trillion dollar debt. Which part of they can not tax us enough to pay all this do you not understand? You are a millionaire, just your share of the unfunded SS and Medicare is over a million! Ya got it? The next time you go to a hospital have them put up a "Driftr" sign over one of the rooms! You are part owner!LOL Don't feel too bad Frank owns a whole wing!
PoorandUglyMessage #3184 - 12/17/10 06:47 PMWe're not going to repay any of this. Neither will our children or grandchildren. They will, however, need to continue to service the debt the way we have. Now I understand the sentiment of some on here. For a while, the gap or leap in thought was incoherent. Is what you're trying to say in your logic is that everyone is way too upset and should not be concerned just because we have over debt of $14 Trillion now simply because it was at $10 Trillion and before that $5 Trillion with no problem and all was well? And so your thought process if I understand it correctly is not to continue to worry because what is the difference at this point between $14 or $20 Trillion? So when it then actually becomes at $20 Trillion, $25 Trillion, what is the difference? Why should we necessarily care or obsess, because just like before, we just can simply to continue to service it like then forever going forward. Is the aforementioned your train of thought? If not, please clarify.
DriftrMessage #3185 - 12/17/10 06:50 PMDriftr, have you seen the Debt clock? Yes, and when they added the new digit, I think I was on these boards posting how sickened I was by it. You sir are correct the devil is in the details! Hey, what can I say? I'm accountant. Details are what I do. ;-) There are enough valid things you posted about that are serious concerns IMO. Embellishment is not needed and I believe it takes away from the overall message if people know there are parts of the message that are not accurate. The state, local and federal pension funds liabilities are so big along with the unfunded Social security and Medicare liabilities are so large there is no way to pay them. Plus add on a now 15 trillion dollar debt. Which part of they can not tax us enough to pay all this do you not understand? If there is no way to pay them, then my money is on not all of them being paid. Or at least not being paid as early or in the amounts they are currently expected to be paid. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable , must be the truth"
DriftrMessage #3186 - 12/17/10 06:54 PMNow I understand the sentiment of some on here. For a while, the gap or leap in thought is clarified. And your logic is that everyone is so upset over debt of $14 Trillion but we we were upset at $10 Trillion and before that $5 Trillion etc.......... And so your thought process if I extrapolate correctly is not to continue to worry when it is at $20 Trillion, $25 Trillion .......... Who cares, just like before, we all service it forever on out? Is this your train of thought? If not, please clarify.
My problem was with the word choice 'repay'. There is obviously a point at which we will no longer be able to service the debt. I do not pretend to know what that exact level of debt is.
PoorandUglyMessage #3187 - 12/17/10 07:01 PMMy problem was with the word choice 'repay'. There is obviously a point at which we will no longer be able to service the debt. I do not pretend to know what that exact level of debt is. Okay lets continue with this train of thought for clarification purposes. The "repay" concern at least in your mind is of no concern at anywhere around current levels right? At what level would YOU PERSONALLY BE CONCERNED? $20 Trillion? $40 Trillion?
DriftrMessage #3188 - 12/17/10 07:16 PMOkay lets continue with this train of thought for clarification purposes. The "repay" concern at least in your mind is of no concern at anywhere around current levels right? At what level would YOU PERSONALLY BE CONCERNED? $20 Trillion? $40 Trillion?
I have no "repay" concern at any level because I do not believe any of it will ever be repaid. If you're asking me what national debt level I start getting concerned with our ability to service the debt, I'd say if/when we start seeing BTCs <2.0 at auctions would be a good time to panic. I am and have been personally concerned every single year for the past 10+ that as a country we don't choose to keep our spending below our income. It boggles my mind that anyone sitting in DC thinks that is a good idea.
common_sense.Message #3189 - 12/17/10 07:18 PMThe economy is in absolute shreds on the brink of collapse after listening to folks in here(no not the sunshine pumpers!) and all over then you watch the government numbers and verbiage you realize how badly they are lying to us. Look at the Bernank when he stated the subprime was contained and would NOT affect the broad economy. That is when the lying began and it has never stopped. But what they just did should scare people - cut 2% off of FICA (SSI)! Social Security is broker than a joke and they take away more funds? why? THE ECONOMY IS BAD! REALLY BAD! (did u hear me?) Social Security cuts are next all the while the BILLIONS in bonuses get bigger! Why is the market going up? there were 3 bad memories from the great depression: - Stock market crash - Today they pump it full of fake money
- unemployment - Numbers were changed back in 1994. U6 shows 17% govt states 9%.
- soup kitchens - food stamp usage up to 42 million, unemployment bennies at 151 weeks
Welcome to the recovery!
PoorandUglyMessage #3190 - 12/17/10 07:33 PMThey will, however, need to continue to service the debt the way we have. Okay so in combination with as long as this doesn't occur: BTC < 2 AND the ability to service it for all generations past, present and future, no panic then. Got it. Reminds me of the same thought process of a degenerate gambler (not of course remotely saying you are one sir) who has gotten in over his head, out of money after spending it all away, but never really concerned that the accumulated debt will ever be paid back because he can go back to his bookie and loan shark. And so he does, year after year, only FINALLY now he goes off and borrows some more from his bookie or loan shark for just one more lifeline promising to pay it all back, then goes to the craps table, wins some, loses some but continues to play for a time only to ultimately be THROWN OUT OF THE CASINO WITH HIS FINGERS AND A LEG CUT OFF since he could NOT PAY. Oh yeah, then the loan shark comes finally wanted to collect some back too and since the guy has no money, he collects by CUTTING OFF ANOTHER LEG AND ARM. It shouldn't just take a BTC ratio to fear this soon enough. And there are other signs. If you have a business, one fine day it may affect you too. And so the price is or will become too high for many soon enough. Then what, still no panic because BTC < 2?
Crying TreeMessage #3191 - 12/17/10 07:38 PMEmployment here will stay high a long time. The new rising star is Brazil. Like China many poor are moving up. This is now a world economy competition in jobs & resources. Brazil's new oil find will be huge. In the past lower jobs were taken by unemployed educated people in down times. Chemical Engineers worked in gas stations. Today those jobs are gone to immigrants. Countries with lots of resources will rise up the economical ladder as others did with lots of natural resources available. The new world is here now and changing everyday.
decoy409Message #3192 - 12/17/10 07:38 PM Well not literally is the 'look.' This is a very delicate collection and must be handled with ease so distraction does not implode. Consider it a balanced exchange of 'tit for tat' if you will.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:22:19 GMT -5
DriftrMessage #3193 - 12/17/10 07:43 PMOkay so in combination with as long as this doesn't occur: BTC < 2 AND the ability to service it for all generations past, present and future, no panic then. Got it Glad I could help.
PoorandUglyMessage #3194 - 12/17/10 08:02 PMGlad I could help. No prob.
wizzozsMessage #3195 - 12/18/10 03:02 AMBINGO! AS A VETERAN I AM PISSED ABOUT THE DEMONSTRATED FREEDOMS THAT CONTROL OUR GOVERNMENT AND MARKETS. I DONT BELIEVE THERE IS AN ETHICAL BONE IN ALL PARTIES THAT ARE INVOLVED>WHAT AN ACT OF DECIEVEMENT TO THE VOTING PUBLIC> BOTH PARTIES AND MARKETS ARE TO NOT BE TRUSTED AND NEED TO BE REMOVED> ( How are my childred ever be able to think of an enjoyable life as we do this to them?) The polls for public opinion of all involved is a negative number. Get the hell out of our(AMERICANS) lives, ya JERKS!
common_sense.Message #3196 - 12/18/10 11:57 AMwe are starting to see a plethera of layoffs now in my area, more announced yesterday in the news. Since we were already depressed, a service economy and never saw a housing boom I would say when we start to hurt "something wicked this way comes"....hold on tight.
BGA4444Message #3197 - 12/18/10 12:21 PMCommon, I am sorry to hear about the layoffs. I talked to a guy yesterday who has worked foe Delta for 23 years. He said Delta took his pension 800K. He said his was 52 and felt just awful. Taking pensions will continue right up to Washington just wait! You know they have always said social security was never meant to be something you could fully retire on. It was just supposed to be a little "help". Well my 81 year old dad is testament to that. All SS is a little help. Problem is that little help is all many people have. I hear of the little old ladies having to eat cat food. It just makes me sick to my stomach! We treat our parents and grandparents like crap and take care of politicians, wall st. bankers, and special interest. It should be the other way around!
common_sense.Message #3198 - 12/18/10 12:59 PMI hear of the little old ladies having to eat cat food. It just makes me sick to my stomach! what do you think Blankfein, Thain, Dimon, etc... eat? should be lead and lots of it!!
Murphy MartinMessage #3199 - 12/18/10 01:55 PMI hear of the little old ladies having to eat cat food. It just makes me sick to my stomach! This is awful. What are the cats supposed to eat?
Murphy MartinMessage #3200 - 12/18/10 01:57 PMThe economy is in absolute shreds on the brink of collapse We'll be fine.
BGA4444Message #3201 - 12/18/10 03:19 PMYes Murphy the economy is so "fine" they give us the 2% SS tax reduction. Do you have a clue as to what that one thing says about the economy. Giving us a deduction out of a fund that already is broke! Am I the only one that sees the implications of what that single action says? It states and confirms the obvious. Please dear God here is more money thrown at the problem! We just hope that if we throw enough crumbs to you idiots you will really think we have your best interest at heart and you will re-elect us. The people with jobs do not need your crumbs. Industries need your help to rebuild the manufactoring base "here". The unemployed need jobs at fair wages. The foreclosure crisis needs a fix. How about a two year ban on foreclosures. That will make the banks renegotiate the loans and will stabilize the housing industry! How about just one good idea that will actually help the economy. Instead of the rhetoric we get! Hey Murphy it really doesn't matter does ut? We will be fine! Right? You must be a politician or a stock broker! It doesn't matter which, we will not be "fine"! Loss of jobs, loss of wealth paying for imported everything, loss of wealth to interest just to service the debt owed to our enemies, crumbling under unfunded social security, medicare, and federal, state, and local government pension funds. The fact that you make the statement we will be fine causes me to shake my head. Because I know many American's are just like you- clueless!
ŽMessage #3202 - 12/18/10 03:30 PMthey give us the 2% SS tax reduction. That truly is the most disgusting thing about this tax bill. That is just more debt that our children will have to pay for.
BGA4444Message #3203 - 12/18/10 04:32 PMZ, I agree! I just do not know what they are thinking in Washington and who sits around thinking this idiotic stuff up. We are doomed as long as those idiots are in DC!
rjslrsMessage #3204 - 12/18/10 08:01 PMI was in at a local specialty manufacturing place yesterday, they have been there probably sixty years. They are in the process of downsized to just a small fraction of what they used to be. Several of the higher dollar machines were sold and were being loaded out. There sure won't be as many employees as there used to be. It is the last manufacturing company in town, a town which was hammered hard during the early eighties.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:23:12 GMT -5
common_sense.Message #3205 - 12/18/10 10:21 PMthey give us the 2% SS tax reduction. It should prove beyond a doubt when they did this they are out of ammo and grabbing at straws. THERE IS NO RECOVERY!!! except in the market where billions of fake dollars are pumped in on almost a daily basis.
itstippyMessage #3206 - 12/18/10 11:13 PMThink it through. SS revenues coming in no longer cover SS benefits paying out, and for sure they no longer provide a nice surplus to spend. Since 1935 Washington has spent the surplus and issued special interest-free Treasury bonds to the "SS Trust Fund". We currently have $2.5 trillion in these worthless bonds. They're worse than worthless - they're a $2.5 trillion liability, owed to the American working class. Ugh. The American working class can be an unruly bunch when they're owed money, and they're already in a foul mood. The SS tax cash spigot is closed. What to do?!? Brilliant Plan: cut the SS tax. Fund the SS revenue shortfall by "cashing in" some of the special Treasury notes in the SS Trust fund. The cashing-in process will consist of removing the bond from the books and printing SS checks for the bond's amount. Monetizing debt. Special Bonus: this also gives a plausible reason to cut future SS benefits, push the retirement age forward, etc. Kill the SS loser by starving it, while at the same time pumping money into the economy by monetizing the SS special Treasury notes. Yay! Who you calling stupid?
Stay PutMessage #3207 - 12/19/10 03:48 AMYou know they have always said social security was never meant to be something you could fully retire on. It was just supposed to be a little "help". Well my 81 year old dad is testament to that. All SS is a little help. Problem is that little help is all many people have. I hear of the little old ladies having to eat cat food. It just makes me sick to my stomach! We treat our parents and grandparents like crap and take care of politicians, wall st. bankers, and special interest. It should be the other way around! BGA, when SS was enacted, most people took their parents in, or stayed in their family home (Waltons) and the SS check helped with the household costs. At some point, we lost our family values and have cast our parents out to either live on their own, or if some feel just a little bit guilty about casting their parents aside, they throw them into a nursing home to let strangers pick up the responsibilities. Here's a crazy idea. What if we made everyone responsible for their own parents. Your choices are that have to move them in with you; your family moves in with them, or you and your siblings have to cover the whole cost of letting them live on their own, to include hospice care etc.. The remaining 2-5% of the current seniors w/out children, currently on SSI, would be easily manageable for the tax payers. It would eliminate the social security problem once and for all.
wizzozsMessage #3208 - 12/19/10 04:58 AMHEY RELAX! The wealthy Americans have this covered, just ask the Republicans. Tax cuts are to add jobs to the economy starting date was_______ HUH_____ DA_MN----- SHIET____ TEN YEARS AGO WHEN THE CUTS WERE INIATIATED, AWE,REPS SAY BE PATIENT!! YA KNOW WHAT? Your plan has. run its course and has failed. Just why did you hold the unemployed hostage wondering what there fate would be so you could continue your 10 year + failure scheme? You just destroyed my common sense and showed the world the heartless acts you will do for the wealthy. This will be something for our kids to read in the history books. Also pissed about the earmarks/ lobbyists that have been past or attempted that were completely decieving to the voting public. Why am I paying taxes on issues of special interest groups that effects less than 1% of the voting public. Earmarks have added billions of dollars to our debt/deficit. This year 6,600 earmarks at a stagering cost in the billions. HELLO____ WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?? Are entire governing process needs to be investigated as money controls elections,governing process,all bills and the Supreme Court as you review that some election campaign contributors dont need to reveal who they are.If I tried to withhold imformation in a court of law I would be in jail. So whats up with that law. It just doesnt balance the equal scales. YA KNOW! This country would save trillions if we would stop being the GOODWILL COUNTRY for foreign countries and the natural disasters. Plus another 200+ trillion on the current wars that we wont win. WE can use that money now to mend our country. The 99ers should have been helped when you consider the long term damage this will create. Soon welfare driven citizens who will tap into government programs that will cost America more than if they would have help them more on additional unemployment. That thought process completely ruined my common sense. I am now NOT ok about my thoughts with my government. They have demonstrated heartless acts, greed, power, favortism,decieving, just not reliable to serve the interest of the majority of Americans. The politicians scheme is broke,this starts a new age of governing. Many voters have no more patience.
Stay PutMessage #3209 - 12/19/10 05:22 AMThe politicians scheme is broke,this starts a new age of governing. Many voters have no more patience. Suggesting that you be responsible for taking care of your own parents brought on your tirade? As to the above statement, the voters were just waking up and last month a historic vote happened. America said "No More!" If you hated last month, you are going to have a melt down in 2012 when we vote the rest of these Progressives out of office.
wizzozsMessage #3210 - 12/19/10 06:08 AMWho is (WE)? I think WE is the entire population that will be feed up with all current politicians by 2012. especially if we still have millions unemployed and the wealthy dont hire as they have promised for ten years now. BUSH IDEA! I think the voters are going to clean house as the governing process is corrupt and lacking ethics. The Republicans dont have a two year fix as the Democrats had two years to try. I think republicans have very little options for cutting spending that will save our asses. The markets wont do it they are loosing trust as more individuals are arrested weekly. Other then these issues the Republicans get there two year try. I dont believe our debt deficit can be paid down, now cost every tax payer 100,000k and increasing by the second as we add more debt on the last dumb bill sponsored by the Republicans/Hostage Bill. People with narrow vision will keep fueling the corruption. WELCOME TO REALITY!!!!!!!!!
common_sense.Message #3211 - 12/19/10 02:55 PMThink it through. I did: everyone pays 7.5% of their income to SSI with employers have to contribute another 15% on top of that. 22.5% collected by the government going to the government. On top of income taxes, excise taxes, fuel taxes, capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. Where did it all go? SSI was a government sponsored ponzi that allowed us to create the largest most sophisticated military the world has ever seen. Ronnie Raygun used it to break the Soviets, but in the end it cost the people of U.S. Funny how they refer to it as an entitlement after they forced us into it.
Murphy MartinMessage #3212 - 12/19/10 03:09 PMYes Murphy the economy is so "fine" they give us the 2% SS tax reduction. Do you have a clue as to what that one thing says about the economy. Giving us a deduction out of a fund that already is broke! Social Security and "the economy" are not the same thing. Oh, and by the way: the American economy and "the" economy are not the same thing. We'll be fine. If Social Security runs out of money, we'll just live on ever-increasing dividends.
Murphy MartinMessage #3213 - 12/19/10 03:12 PMBGA, when SS was enacted, most people took their parents in, or stayed in their family home (Waltons) and the SS check helped with the household costs. Social Security was enacted in the real world in the 1930s. The Waltons were a fictitious family from 1970s television. So what's your point?
Stay PutMessage #3214 - 12/20/10 04:55 AM
Social Security was enacted in the real world in the 1930s. The Waltons were a fictitious family from 1970s television. So what's your point? Actually the Walton's was a TV program of the 70's, based on a book about the author's actual own life. That is the real world. My point was so clearly spelled out that I find it extremely difficult to believe that you or anyone would ever ask, "What's your point?" Everyone starts taking full responsibility of their own parents, and stop expecting cradle to grave care from the government.
time2shareMessage #3215 - 12/22/10 09:29 PMtick...Tick..... TICK....BGA ,Your right ! Murphy has his head in the ground and has been brain washed......!The Fed has been trying to Pump Money, Cut Taxes, Extend unemployment, Cut Interest Rates, Pay off the Media to miss lead us, Cash for Clunkers, Electric Golf Cart Credit, ALPACA Farm credit, Extend Subsidies to farmers, Lower the Dollar to stimulate export, Bail out GM, AIG, FMAC,GMAE,....and 50 others......BAILED Out Wall Street and NOW artificially inflated the stock market to create a false sense of wealth and NOW a 2% reduction in SS payroll tax, Sale of Bond debt in the Markets and many many more covert stuff.....ALL FOR THE SAKE TO GET you to spend us back into recovery....WELL GUESS WHAT? WE ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND MORE.....!!!!!EVEN IF WE HAVE JOBS....! THIS Great DEPRESSION IS LASTING 3-5 Years and The Markets better get used to it.........! You are going to see more Bank defaults.....More Unemployment to 10.00%+..and...Actual 18.00% + and after the new year slow down in Holiday over spending vacuum starts to back draft in January the first quarter reports start coming in negative ....GET READY FOR THE BUBBLE TO BURST!!!!!
MOB1313Message #3216 - 12/23/10 01:34 AMChronic unemployment and underemployment in the Private sector is the primary cause of this malaise in the economy, this started twenty, thirty years ago when we destroyed our own manufacturing base for the sake of higher profits. Cheap overseas labor, we all loved those low prices, we are all responsible for the mess we are in now. Reagan`s Dream for America is now a reality; a service economy with no chance of ever recreating a large manufacturing base that would bring good paying blue collar jobs back to America. Even though we are all preaching austerity now, anyone with knowledge understands that the American Economy runs best when we over consume; the misers only make the banks rich. Who traditionally over consumes? the lower middle class and the poor, they spend every dime they can lay their hands on. Austerity?, it will be the death of us all. B.R.I.C will own the whole country in another ten years, I guess we dug this hole a little too deep.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 4:24:04 GMT -5
wizzozsMessage #3217 - 12/23/10 01:53 AMThe corporations are banking the stimulas,1.93billion dollars. They have stated that the indicators are not present for them to invest and have any comfort level. Corporations are now manipulating the markets with there own funds. Im sure that there focus is to reap the dividens from new accounts. the stock goes up they sell . Lower they purchase. People need to start thinking that corporations can make money within the markets and not invest in public ventures. Very-Very Possible and it seems to be happening nows. The government blew it on the stimulas when they set no specifications on spending. How many (S) do I end the word nimrod with? Dont foeget that the FBI have over 350 peolpe arrested and charged for fraud in dealing with the business of the markets/hedge funds. The housing foreclosure started when lending companies started to misguide residents, such as Ameriquest,which had to file bankruptcy as they viewed the law suits being filed. A person has to be very ignorant to believe that the markets are growing from the citizens investing. Peolpe are becoming very leary to invest money and trust that enterprise with there life savings. Now that the FBI have opened a can of worms I think the problem will escalate as people point to other people involved in the same practice. I dont think that the government and media should hush on this investigation. people need to know the progress. A ton of earmarks orginate from the markets as a way they can profit more on sales of there product. Its time to police the market and demand they are regulated by laws with a ethical platform. Reality is people are greedy and will take anyones money at any given time. Its called Madoffism. So the polls for the markets have moved to the negative side just in the last few months. I believe that we will collapse before people realize that a life without ethics really sucks for both the rich and poor.
neohguyMessage #3218 - 12/23/10 01:07 PMBGA, Virgil has offered to move some threads to the proboards site: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=255
BGA4444Message #3219 - 12/23/10 02:17 PMNeo, Great! Thanks! I am already a member and have posted a couple of comments on proboards. It will just take time to get use to the new board. When MSN closes MT I will make Google my new homepage I plan on never visiting MSN again in permanent protest! Virgil, I would be honored if this thread was moved to proboards. Be my guest!
neohguyMessage #3220 - 12/23/10 02:58 PMBGA, Virgil started a thread over there about this: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=255 I have developed a bot that transfers threads over from the old boards to the the current site. Most major formatting is left intact.
If anyone would like a particularly large (but important) thread ported over, please let me know.
Note that all posts will necessarily have to appear under my user (unless of course you're willing to give me access to yours.  )
Stay PutMessage #3221 - 12/24/10 06:24 AMOh, you guys can't leave decoys posts to die with these boards. Also, has anyone moved this string over to the new board? These are classic posts, no matter what your affiliations, feelings......... For history sake. For the love of humanity, someone has to move all of these classic posts over.
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? WE NEED CAMPAIGN REFORM!!!!!!! Until that happens, we will see no change in our government. Americans need to demand acountability from the contributors and elected represenatives. The Ethics of this process is not the American way of representing the voters and the interest of the people. Party affiliation either way should have one focus, and that is to operate in a ethical manner. If we fail to change then we will eventually, totally exhaust the trust between our elected officials and the voting population. I have a feeling that greed will continue to strangle the economic groth until we are on our knees. What next?
