bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:06:16 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2149 - 04/13/10 02:21 PMJnap, Do you know why all the insurance companies had a good uptick after healthcare passed? I will tell you why. The uptick was caused by further evidence of "business socialism" with the government making it law that all Americans would have to buy something from private companies - health insurance!
amazenMessage #2150 - 04/13/10 02:34 PMthe doom and gloomers want us to sink more to wipe out the steady stock owners to buy us out later. we Are coming out a little slower than previous recessions . i think we sould sell the state of Conn? that would give us some blow money?
DriftrMessage #2151 - 04/13/10 02:41 PMBGA/TXBiz - Just read this over at zerohedge. Seems the latest small business optimism index is confirming your anecdotal evidence. The NFIB Small Business Optimism index came in at 86.8, a decline from the March's read. As the [www.nfib.com/tabid/732/Default.aspx?cmsid=51254] NFIB itself confirms: "The persistence of index readings below 90 is unprecedented in survey history. ·The March reading is very low and headed in the wrong direction,· said Bill Dunkelberg, NFIB chief economist. ·Something isn·t sitting well with small business owners. Poor sales and uncertainty continue to overwhelm any other good news about the economy.· www.zerohedge.com/article/nfib-small-business-confidence-drops-8-month-lows-divergence-ism-optimism-intensifies
BGA4444Message #2152 - 04/13/10 02:45 PMJnap, the government gave the Wall st. banks our money to "grease credit". Bullcrap, they did not start loaning again, that is a lie. All they did was take all that money and throw it into the stock market. Every since the government "greased credit" it has become harder and harder to access. My girlfriend who owns two homes and has plenty of cash reserves was denied credit at Lowes for a washer and dryer. She simply pulled out one of her many other 0 balance credit cards and bought them. Man was she mad. I told her it was just the way it is. The grease that the government used allowed the Bankster to slip it in the American people a little easier. I for one am more than a little sore!
txbizownrMessage #2153 - 04/13/10 03:15 PMDriftr, Great post... We on this board as small business owners are on the front lines of this thing..with the exception of a fortunate few aka Kman ect I would say we feel the pinch returning..we are able to interact with the general public and get a true outlook on things to come through real conversations rather than listening to some know it all economic advisors diddeling there numbers in their corner office, they havent a clue.. As I said early sales are are down and looking to go lower from my own personal economic indicator (talking with customers), I do not need someone with a line on some chart from China pointing up telling me my sales should be shooting through the roof, the disconnect between what is and what they want you to believe is astounding to me. We have more tough times ahead IMHO and all I can do is show up to work with a positive attitude for my staff, sell as much as I can, and treat customers right..when that doesn't end up being enough, then I will go from there..wherever it leads. tx
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2154 - 04/13/10 06:21 PMwe just had price increases from our three largest wholesalers. It is amazing we keep lowering prices and making less and less margin. I do not care what Wall St. is doing, main street is still doing awful I agree, That's why I am very leery of the government reports and Wall Street, I just don't see how things can add up correctly, we are seeing one thing and the government and Wall Street sees something different - I still see some major problems with business, people just don't have the money to spend. We are located in Virginia. On the other hand we took a weekend trip and I was shocked at how many people were out spending money. It seems selective businesses are doing well.
BGA4444Message #2155 - 04/13/10 09:00 PMFalling, I agree with you too. But many people are ok and doing pretty well. It is not like it is the total end of the American way. During the depression people were ok as well. My main concern is the people who have been unemployed for years and who have all but given up. I believe that as great as we are we must take care of our own. The government should keep extending benefits until unemployment stabilizes at around 5%. If you live in a state that never gets back down there we should just lower the retirement age in those states until the unemployment rate gets to 5%. A free lunch? Hell no, just americans taking care of americans!
JnapMessage #2156 - 04/13/10 09:35 PMSo some are saying that the economy is not back to ·normal· and they are working very hard to find customers and sell goods and services. The truth is that the economic activity in the mid 2000·s was abnormal as measured by what ever yardstick you want to use. Money was flowing like water and people were taking on debt like there was no tomorrow. There was excess at every level and it was unsustainable. Why is this surprise? Didn·t some of you folks get a clue that we were on a path that would lead to where we are? What we have now it closer to normal than what we came from by a mile. There is however, a constant theme prevalent on this message board and that is somebody should do something, usually the Government, to fix things and bring us back to prosperity. Well the Government has done some things and the economy is trying to recover but the underlying causes of this recession have roots far greater than anyone believed. So now what? Do we reduce taxes while the deficit is exploding keeping in mind that states taxes, for many, are greater than Federal taxes. In fact, forty seven percent of workers now pay no Federal taxes at all so how would reducing taxes help them or the economy? What about the Tea Party agenda of reducing government and reducing taxes? Bush lowered taxes more than anyone and those tax cuts are still in effect so how would that help considering that the economy collapsed under that scenario? Cutting government might help but who are you going to cut and wouldn·t that add to unemployment? How about re-domesticating some of our industries? I like that idea but can you do it and compete with China? Green technology is promising but it is not likely to employ 5 million people. Pundits say the economy is recovering and I believe them but it isn·t recovering for everyone. Some are going to have problems for many years and housing, which is directly tied to many jobs, is going to take even longer to recover. I have a question for some that say there sales are down by some percentage during the last few months: Is it measured by the sales during the boom or by sales during normal years? It would be interesting to read what your suggestions are to get the economy moving.
Stay PutMessage #2157 - 04/13/10 10:20 PMI like going over to the U.S. National Debt clock. You can find the best "spin" over there. It's actually quite dizzying. Unfunded national debt is at over $108 Trillion (too many zeros) and spinning like a top. If you go over there, it's like watching individual races being run. I don't think stop watches actually move that quickly.
Stay PutMessage #2158 - 04/13/10 10:26 PMBush lowered taxes more than anyone and those tax cuts are still in effect so how would that help considering that the economy collapsed under that scenario? Yeah, but you failed to mention that the Dems refused to cut ANY spending. The two actually have to go hand in hand for any real recovery to ever have hope.
Stay PutMessage #2159 - 04/13/10 11:51 PMIt's real simple. Set the total tax rate at 12%. Eliminate all but vital spending. No pay raises; discretionary spending of any kind, ear marks, etc.. Cut the government size by 1/2 its current size. End NAFTA, Free Trade, etc.. Get us out of the UN, and give them an eviction notice. Get us out of the One World Order, to where our economy is tied to the rest of the world. Raise tariffs to the point of fair trade (again). Make us a sovereign nation once again, to where we will continue to do business with the whole world, but will not be tied to any entangling treaties with any of them. Close down ALL military bases not on U.S. soil, and build a fence along our own boarders. The bases closed down in foreign nations can then be housed in military bases along our own boarders. Make it a crime for anyone hiring, housing, feeding, clothing, etc., any illegal aliens. Penalties can range from using RECO act to confiscate all possessions of any/all violators. This is just the start of undoing all that the Progressives have done to destroy our nation in the hopes of creating a Communist nation...USSA.
Crying TreeMessage #2160 - 04/14/10 12:06 AMRecovery is as slow as molasses in Alaska.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:07:09 GMT -5
djrickMessage #2161 - 04/14/10 02:54 PM [ www.truthdig.com/report/category/hedges/] Chris Hedges' Columns One Marine·s ·Liberty Walk· for the Rest of Us<snip> Bell, who lives in Lansing, N.Y., is the new face of resistance. He is young, at home in the culture of the military, deeply suspicious of the federal government, disgusted by the liberal elite, unable to find work and angry. ·Everybody in my apartment building has had their hours cut, are unemployed or have taken minimum-wage jobs,· he said. ·I was laid off last year. I try to find work as an independent carpenter. I don·t have health insurance.·
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2162 - 04/14/10 04:40 PMRetail sales
Excluding motor vehicles and parts, retail sales rose 0.6 percent in March after rising 1.0 percent the prior month as a combination of an early Easter holiday and warm weather boosted receipts at clothing stores. Core retail sales, which correspond most closely with the consumer spending component of the government's gross domestic product report, rose 0.5 percent after increasing 1.2 percent February. Even as spending gathers momentum, there are no signs of inflation picking up. Core consumer prices, which exclude volatile food and energy prices were unchanged in March after rising 0.1 percent in February, the Labor Department said. Economists polled by Reuters had expected a 0.1 percent rise in core CPI. Funny how this does not "Jive" with what we are experiencing!
BGA4444Message #2163 - 04/14/10 07:00 PMDid anybody in business have a positive first quarter?
JnapMessage #2164 - 04/14/10 07:38 PMStay put, some of your suggestions were implemented around 1932 as a means of dealing with the great depression. The result was a second great depression lasting through 1939. It is impossible to curtail trade and expect our economy to prosper. We export billions of dollars of goods to countries throughout the world and if these countries also adapted your suggestions it would have a very negative effect just as it did in 1937. While I would agree that some tariffs might be necessary to preserve domestic industries, wholesale tariffs would kill our economy. As to a 12% tax rate, a family making less than 35 thousand a year hardly pays any taxes at all so how would that help them by imposing a 12% tax? But a family making a million a year that now pays 300 hundred thousand would now pay 120 thousand so they would be given an extra 180 thousand dollars to live on while the 35 thousand dollar family starves to death. It is an undeniable fact that the rich in this country have greatly raised their income, during the last 30 years, while the working class has actually seen their income fall, after inflation. Your tax suggestions would exacerbate the problem. Sorry but isolation, tax decreases for the rich and curtailing trade is not a good idea. It didn·t work in the 30·s and would not work today.
Stay PutMessage #2165 - 04/14/10 11:40 PMStay put, some of your suggestions were implemented around 1932 as a means of dealing with the great depression. The result was a second great depression lasting through 1939. No. Actually some of my ideas were implemented in the 1920 great depression, and as a result, only lasted 1 year. What followed were known as the "Roaring 20's". Of course this prosperity would never do under Progressives like Roosevelt, who through his multiple Socialist programs caused a Depression which lasted until the mid 1950's. You Progressives do love to rewrite history don't you? It is impossible to curtail trade and expect our economy to prosper. Wow! You really don't know economics or history. First of all tariffs have always proven to level the playing field, and guaranteeing the success of our entire nation without ever hurting international trade or our economy. In fact our economy booms under wholesale tariffs. As to a 12% tax rate, a family making less than 35 thousand a year hardly pays any taxes at all so how would that help them by imposing a 12% tax? But a family making a million a year that now pays 300 hundred thousand would now pay 120 thousand so they would be given an extra 180 thousand dollars to live on while the 35 thousand dollar family starves to death Oh boy. Lowering taxes to 12% would be a boom for our entire nation, as have been proven by both history and top economists around the world. Lower taxes coupled with gutting the size of government, and all but vital spending would send our economy soaring, as was proven in 1921. The Progressives do not want this pesky little truth told because it does not fit with their agenda. You can raise taxes all that you want, and the rich will always find loop holes and other places/country's to put their money to avoid the opressive taxes. It always ends up being the burden of the average schumck who can't afford to pay high dollar tax teams to hide their money. Lowering taxes to 12% would bring money back into the system as have been proven over and over again. Of course lowering taxes has got to be coupled with downsizing government spending and the very size of government. Your tax suggestions would exacerbate the problem. My suggestions have PROVEN to eliminate the problems created by Liberals/Progressives hell bent on creating a communist nation.
BGA4444Message #2166 - 04/15/10 02:01 AMStay, I never knew you had it in you! Remind me never to tick you off! Touche!
Stay PutMessage #2167 - 04/15/10 02:14 AMBGA, no worries mate. I have come to the solid conclusion that you cannot fix stupid, but you can vote them out of office. In so doing, you will hurt the feelings of every Progressive/Liberal scumbag out there. 
Stay PutMessage #2168 - 04/15/10 02:31 AMThe thing that still amazes me is that nobody seems to get it. You cannot have a Free Market in an Enslaved Economy. The two have and are being juxtaposition all in a attempt to deceive the masses. It's all an illusion for the sole purpose of the ultimate goal....One Socialist/Communist/Fascist world government. This is not some conspiracy. It is the game plan of the Progressives.
BGA4444Message #2169 - 04/15/10 02:57 PMTwo graphs on the same curve! The Dow and home foreclosures, both soaring up in the first three months of the year. Which soaring will have a effect on the other. Hmmm let see, will rising stock market slow foreclosure rate? Or will rising foreclosures continue helping market climb?
BGA4444Message #2170 - 04/15/10 03:51 PMInitial unemployment claims spike to over 480 thousand. The all knowing government thought it would be around 440 thou. Everything is fine just fine. Just be patient the market will be back to 14000 very soon! Then everything will be allllll righty!
JnapMessage #2171 - 04/15/10 05:09 PMStay put, you are re-writing history. I suppose you would like to go back to the thirties to live. But the life expectancy in 1935 was 63 years for females and 59 for males in the US. Hardly any social safeguards existed then and the average standard of living was less than what we would call the poverty level today. The average annual income was $1,500 a year and unemployment was 33% in 1932. In 1933 the TVA was formed to provide electrical power to rural area and to increase employment. The thirties were very similar to events occurring in the last few years in that the government, ultimately, began to spend the money needed to get the economy moving. In fact the banking crisis then didn·t really end until the mid thirties. And only after Roosevelt assured people it was over. With the lack of safety nets people suffered in ways you can not imagine. I don·t know anyone that would like to go back and live during the era and was reminded of that fact many times by people that lived through it. I suggest you talk to those that did and then tell me how adapting your proposals of government austerity during a great depression or recession would help anyone. You are fantasizing when it comes to economic conditions that existed then and what was done to get the economy moving again. Please read the quote from Wikipedia regarding economic activity during the thirties. Also view the graph showing unemployment during the thirties and then tell me how your suggested solution would work. The Great Depression had devastating effects in virtually every country, rich and poor. [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income] Personal income, tax revenue, profits and prices dropped, and international trade plunged by a half to two-thirds. Unemployment in the United States rose to 25%, and in some countries rose as high as 33%.[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#cite_note-Frank_Bernanke-2#cite_note-Frank_Bernanke-2] [3] [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities_in_the_Great_Depression] Cities all around the world were hit hard, especially those dependent on [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_industry] heavy industry. Construction was virtually halted in many countries. [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farming] Farming and rural areas suffered as crop prices fell by approximately 60 percent.[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#cite_note-USBLS-3#cite_note-USBLS-3] [4][ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#cite_note-4#cite_note-4] [5][ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#cite_note-5#cite_note-5] [6] Facing plummeting demand with few alternate sources of jobs, areas dependent on [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_sector_of_economic_activity] primary sector industries such as [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_crop] cash cropping, [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining] mining and [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logging] logging suffered the most.[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#cite_note-6#cite_note-6] [7] Countries started to recover by the mid-1930s, but in many countries the negative effects of the Great Depression lasted until the start of World War II.[ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#cite_note-Great_Depression_and_World_War_II-7#cite_note-Great_Depression_and_World_War_II-7] [8] World war two may have been the biggest event to get us out of the depression but never forget that it was government spending, albeit for war material, that provided the stimulus.
BGA4444Message #2172 - 04/15/10 06:08 PMJnap, In march of 1929 the DJIA was a little over 300. It did not get back to that level until November of 1953. This is 24 years later so what exactly worked? I will tell you. The baby boomers having babies and building houses. This economy is built on home building and a growing population achieving middle class status, not throwing money at the stock market. It took over two decades including a world war to get the market back to the pre crash status. This market will be above the crash line in less than two years. It is all fake inflationary market growth not real economic growth. It is a house of cards. One day we will all know it!
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:08:01 GMT -5
JnapMessage #2173 - 04/15/10 09:42 PMBga4444, you must not have any investments, to speak of, so you have to bad mouth the stock market. Sorry but without a stock market there is no Capitalism. The two go hand and hand. It would like trying to play baseball without a ball, glove and bat. Or Hockey without a puck. I am sorry that you don't understand the Capitalistic system and how the stock market allows the system to exist. It is not necessary to invest in stocks to be successful but you are missing a very large piece of the Capitalistic system if you don't. What you have to understand is that investing is the heart of our system, whether it be in your business, other businesses by purchasing stocks or bonds or by obtaining a better education. The last one is indeed an investment made in your future with a belief that it will help you prosper. The same is true with investing in the markets in that it is done in hopes it will help you multiply your hard earned money through belief that the companies you invest in will prosper and through them you. It is a very sound system because most people do not have the expertise to start their own business, and run it, so they invest in companies and people that can. America could not exist without the stock market... please try to understand that. I know that many people, like yourself, are trying to rationalize how the market can be going up while so many people are unemployed, the housing market isn't recovering and, in your mind, things look economically terrible. There is a simple reason and it is that they are optimistic and are looking toward the future. Why is that a problem for them? Why can't they understand this fundamental emotion which precedes every single advancement in humanity. Last couple of thoughts: the economy will recover when the majority of investors and the average American believes that things are improving; or in other words becomes optimistic. Pessimists finally realize that they are in the great minority and either participate in the economy or get out of the way. I have yet to see a pessimist succeed for very long so the choice seems obvious.
Crying TreeMessage #2174 - 04/15/10 11:09 PMThe depression is over. The New Depression is just starting. You will be working only for less than what you made before. It will seem like a depression and you be depressed. Time to take a hike and do the free things in life. Be careful-sex cost more than stocks.- Just a hint on the free things. Some are more free than others.
BGA4444Message #2175 - 04/16/10 02:17 AMJnap I have repeatedly told everyone on MT to sell everything they have got, cash out Jr's college fund and jump in on the ride. I have been saying it for months. The markets surge is not based on sound business logic but on inflation. My prediction on the "predict 2010 market high" thread was between 15000 and 16000. I still honestly believe it will be close to those highs. Are those highs sustainable? Yes with the continued print/throw money at the market. The problem will be when it is time for government to pay the piper. If they just print more money the market could be 20000 by next year. But if they start pulling all the money back in to decrease the deficit then you all better be ready to exit stage right!
neohguyMessage #2176 - 04/16/10 01:07 PMBGA, hopefully this is the start of a trend that you will eventually benefit: www.bloomberg.com/markets/ecalendar/index.html Highlights
Housing in March made strengthened from snow bound February-with permits pointing toward even better improvement than starts. Housing starts in March rebounded 1.6 percent after a snow storm damped 1.1 percent rise in February. The February number was revised up from an original estimate of a 5.9 percent drop. The March annualized pace of 0.626 million units came in above analysts' projection for 0.605 million units and was up 20.2 percent on a year-ago basis. The boost in March was led by an 18.8 percent jump in multifamily starts, following a 21.6 percent fall in February. The single-family component edged down 0.9 percent after a 5.7 percent boost the month before.
The impact of weather on February's numbers clearly was seen again in March as the latest surge was entirely from a rebound in the South which was battered by snow storms the prior month. By region, the March boost in starts was led by an 18.2 percent rebound in the South after an 11.8 percent drop the month before. For the latest month, declines were seen in the Midwest, down 28.4 percent; the Northeast, down 8.3 percent; and the West, down 2.1 percent.
Permits were even more positive, jumping 7.5 percent, following a 2.4 percent advance in February. The March pace of 0.685 million units annualized was up 34.1 percent on a year-ago basis.
Today's numbers indicate that housing is not slipping back into recession although this sector is still getting support from homebuyer tax credits that are about to expire. On the news bond yields firmed slightly and equity futures nudged up
jma23Message #2177 - 04/16/10 01:38 PMRemains to be seen how many buyers were pulled forward and how much the wound has healed when the $8,000 and $6,500 bandaid is pulled off.
BGA4444Message #2178 - 04/16/10 02:01 PMNeo and Jma good points. I hope it does improve. I have not achieved a bonus from our sales in over two years. The bonus was about 35% of my salary/bonus compensation package. We also all took 20% pay cuts just to try and stay in business till things turnaround. So for the most part I took about a 55% cut in pay. But I am proud and blessed to have a job when so many others are suffering. Contrary to what many think I do not wish for the end times. I simply call business in Atlanta and the market as I see it based on the information I read. The funny thing the market is doing great! It has had huge gains since Obama took office. The rich are getting richer. I just can not understand the Obama hating. Could he give any more of our money to Wall st.? Could he attack all the Muslim nations? What do the haters want other than just him gone. What a bunch of racist! When you get 100% blame for all wrong you must also get 100% blame for all right. Is there nothing right in America anymore?
neohguyMessage #2179 - 04/16/10 02:19 PMHopefully your business will survive BGA. When I started in the boiler business over 20 yrs ago, there were probably 20 companies that provided that service in my area. Since then, industry has been exiting this area and today there are only a half dozen that provide that service. This weeks rail report shows a 14.5% increase ytd compared to last year for the commodity Primary Forest Products. For the commodity Lumber and Wood products there is a 9.7% gain for the same period. However, when comparing to the same time period in 2008, those two categories are down ~24% and 32%. I agree with Jma that this is not a very good sign for housing, especially with the tax credit about to expire. These are the links to the rail reports I used: [ www.aar.org/NewsAndEvents/PressReleases/2010/04/~/media/AAR/Weekly_Traffic_Reports/trf1014.ashx] www.aar.org/NewsAndEvents/PressReleases/2010/04/~/media/AAR/Weekly_Traffic_Reporhttp://www.aar.org/NewsAndEvents/PressReleases/2009/04_WTR/~/media/Files/WeeklyTraffic/2009_WTR/WTR_041609_week1409.ashx
BGA4444Message #2180 - 04/16/10 02:34 PMHey at least the "business socialism" has been expanded from Wall st Banks, to cars, to houses, to insurance companies, now the new government's "help" includes appliances. Oh when will flooring be a part of the governments "business socialism". Neo, I know the boiler industry could use a little "help" as well. Yet JNAP says we live in a capitalistic society-bull!
Crying TreeMessage #2181 - 04/16/10 02:46 PMYou can forget it. The poor never get it. The rich buy up the property cheap and rent it out. Throw your money down the drain renting or buy what you cannot afford. Their are lots of things right in America but fools and their money depart as usual. You cannot train a fool and they make the same mistakes over & over. Call it a depression if you want but it looks like a bunch of stupid people who did not pay attention in the sixth grade math class. 2 + 2 =1 and I can't pay my mortgage I signed up to pay. Boo hoo- help me. I want a free house and the banks are mean just because they got screwed over by idiots who failed math and spent their money on everything but the rent. It is the banks fault I can't count to ten. It's everyone's fault but theirs. So dig in your pockets and pay for stupidity of others and call it a depression.
BGA4444Message #2182 - 04/19/10 11:16 AMAhhh, it appears Washington needs a scapegoat. I did not realize, the Goldman's case, which is iron clad according to a former CFO on CNBC this morning, will be reputational and actually cause Goldmans' demise. He stated Washington may not have wanted them to fail but many times a snowball fight turns in to a avalanche. Now the long term affect world wide will be one that could possible have a huge impact on Wall st.. Many people worldwide already think Wall st. is made up of liars and thieves. This "thing" could really snowball and become the "thing" that brings about the fall of the American markets. If the SEC suddenly starts doing its job Wall st. could end up in the same position as the rest of America. In a true "depression" . I know we all want blood but the timing of this lynch mob could destroy us!
DriftrMessage #2183 - 04/19/10 12:33 PMI don't believe there will ever be a good or convenient day to kill the Vampire Squid, but I believe every day it stays in business it gets harder to kill and will do more damage during it's death throes. I say kill the squid today and let the chips fall where they may.
neohguyMessage #2184 - 04/19/10 12:51 PMI say kill the squid today and let the chips fall where they may. PITA and Greenpeace are going to be all over your case  Many people worldwide already think Wall st. is made up of liars and thieves. This "thing" could really snowball and become the "thing" that brings about the fall of the American markets. I subscribe to a rather obscure TA report called The Elliott Wave Theorist. Fridays report calls for increasing odds for a market top beginning April 15th to early May this year. Then a choppy decline until mid 2016. EWT uses probabilities, not absolutes, based on repeatable observed market patterns. Sometimes they are right and many times not right. In February 09 it called for a "bear market rally" of dow 10,000. I laughed at that call back then and today we're well above that.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:08:54 GMT -5
DriftrMessage #2185 - 04/19/10 12:56 PMPITA and Greenpeace are going to be all over your case They don't worry me a bit. My wife on the other hand... Let's just not tell her about my cephalopodahatreda. Probably safer for all of us.
great depression1Message #2186 - 04/19/10 01:55 PMSo who came in with the big money at 10 am........................geithner I would assume
JnapMessage #2187 - 04/19/10 11:01 PMJust a quick comment about inflation; I do believe it is coming and probably quicker than many think. But if inflation effects everything we buy then why shouldn't it effect the the value of all of the companies comprising the US stock market? Inflation should make all of these companies stock worth more and actually ratchet up their price, at least as much as equal to inflation. Think about it if inflation takes hold then assets will increase in value because it would take more money to replace them. Those invested in fixed investment, such as bonds, will fall in value relative to inflation, because better returns can be found in other places. Inflation should be good for the market but bad for long term fixed investments.
LivingInCaliMessage #2188 - 04/19/10 11:13 PMInflation should make all of these companies stock worth more and actually ratchet up their price, at least as much as equal to inflation. Think about it if inflation takes hold then assets will increase in value because it would take more money to replace them. Those invested in fixed investment, such as bonds, will fall in value relative to inflation, because better returns can be found in other places. Inflation should be good for the market but bad for long term fixed investments. Inflation wasn't good for the stock market from around 1976-1982. The stock market produced negative real returns during that time. 
neohguyMessage #2189 - 04/20/10 04:48 PMI'm still leaning towards deflation before we see inflation www.ttnews.com/articles/basetemplate.aspx?storyid=24225&utm_source=express&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter ABF, Teamsters Agree to 15% Wage Cut Pact Subject to Rank-and-File Union Ratification [www.ttnews.com/search/frmSearchTop.aspx?terms=ABF] ABF Freight System and the [www.ttnews.com/search/frmSearchTop.aspx?terms=Teamsters] Teamsters union have reached agreement on a 15% wage reduction to help the less-than-truckload carrier cope with losses triggered by the recession.The plan, still subject to ratification by union members, includes a provision that managers and other non-union workers receive the same percentage reduction, including the benefit, pension and wage adjustments that already have taken effect for those workers....ABF becomes the second LTL carrier to win a wage concession deal from the union, following [www.ttnews.com/search/frmSearchTop.aspx?terms=YRC] YRC Worldwide, which [www.ttnews.com/articles/basetemplate.aspx?storyid=22319] won concessions from its workers last year due to recession-related losses.....
BGA4444Message #2190 - 04/20/10 06:01 PMNeo, Great post I agree. Our company is, just this week, about to cut installers pay 20% across the board. We hate to do it but the alternative is go out of business. The crews that want all the work can have it. The ones that do not agree we will not use. This is absolute deflation at its best. Money is not making it to main st.. Therefore no inflation there!
BGA4444Message #2191 - 04/22/10 11:43 AMWhat is going on with small business? We were only down 4% in the first quarter. April is down almost 75%. The Mohawk rep came in yesterday and said "it is the worst month I have ever seen". We have already had the worst two sales months in the history of the company in January and February. March pulled out the first quarter for us. We were hoping for a strong April but it is so bad I would almost be happy at this point with a 30%-50% decline in sales vs. last April. You think income tax and spring break but last April had that going on too. I am talking month vs. month sales. How is everyone else doing for April? This is beyond scary. What is going on?
1939sMessage #2192 - 04/22/10 12:19 PMBGA4444:We were hoping for a strong April but it is so bad I would almost be happy at this point with a 30%-50% decline in sales vs. last April. You think income tax and spring break but last April had that going on too. I am talking month vs. month sales. How is everyone else doing for April? This is beyond scary. What is going on? I've had a steady decline in paid memberships for the last year (and more) no matter what changes were made (like freebies) ... in April I've lost more members in this one month so far than I did during the whole of last year. As you said it's beyond scary.
ŽMessage #2193 - 04/22/10 12:28 PM BGA4444, I've been following your business reports of Atlanta and it is scary when Atlanta is getting hit this hard. I lived in Atlanta for a while and I know there are a lot of well to do people living there. I think I saw you post one time that your business was concentrated in north Atlanta in a wealthy area. I took that to mean either Alpharetta or Roswell. I work in Public Education in Tennessee and what's been on the menu now going on 3 years is budget cuts, forced retirements, benefits cuts, school closings etc with no end in sight yet.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2194 - 04/22/10 12:54 PMThink about it if inflation takes hold then assets will increase in value because it would take more money to replace them. Those invested in fixed investment, such as bonds, will fall in value relative to inflation, because better returns can be found in other places. Inflation should be good for the market but bad for long term fixed investments. From a company point of view - Business tries to hold back raising prices as much as possible - Your customers don't always understand what is going on and believe you are gouging them. Raising prices too fast can drive away your customers and it takes time to react to mass price changes. Sometimes we just "eat" the increases to help keep our prices competitive. Short term it hurts a companies profit margins and if there is runaway inflation of course this can have long term effects because you will mostly be behind the curve in raising your prices back to your margin levels. Then as prices increase employees start demanding higher wages to counter their eroding paychecks - It can be a viscous cycle.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2195 - 04/22/10 12:59 PMHow is everyone else doing for April? This is beyond scary. What is going on? I'm not sure either but April has been a dismal month for us also and we are not alone - other businesses in our area are experiencing the same thing. We are a tourist area and usually Spring Break is the start of tourist season - so far almost no tourists. It's frightening because everything you are hearing in the news is mostly positive - I wish we had something to be positive about here!
BGA4444Message #2196 - 04/22/10 01:54 PMHi guys, Z you are right on the money. The store I manage is on Mansell rd. in Roswell. Our other store is off Towne Lake Parkway in Woodstock. Both very affluent high end areas. I just can not understand what is going on!
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:09:46 GMT -5
txbizownrMessage #2197 - 04/22/10 02:16 PMFalling Sky agree completly with #2194, we are seeing price levels shoot up here in dallas as well, I am basically begging for every "big" sale I get throwing in extras and selling at almost cost..it's ridiculous..I'm in dallas in sign/advertising business..everyone acts like i am pulling there last dollar out of there wallet..never seen it like this, as far as april goes we are down over 30% from last year which is horrific..still have 1 week to go hoping something pops, this is weird because march was ok (and i use that very loosly) and the first week of april seemed like we would be alright, then at tax week, nothing...everything has dried up...just don't know all i can say is recovery...MY AZZ!! cant tell me otherwise! tx
BGA4444Message #2198 - 04/22/10 02:30 PMThings are crazy. We just had a price increase from Mohawk,Shaw. and Beaulieu and now they just told us of another one in May. Sales are down, but everyone can sell for more besides small business. If this keeps on they will put us all out of business!
neohguyMessage #2199 - 04/22/10 02:49 PMAn interesting article in Business Week confirms what you small business guys are saying: www.businessweek.com/print/investor/content/apr2010/pi20100420_625166.htm .. Construction Shortage
A dearth of new construction projects is preventing manufacturers from regaining any pricing power, says David Gordon, a principal at Channel Marketing Group, a marketing consulting firm that advises manufacturers, distributors, and industry associations. With so much slack in the construction industry, distributors are going after the few scraps of business they see and are so focused on capturing market share that they're willing to give up pricing power, he says.
The plumbing, building materials, and electrical supply companies he works with aren't even passing through higher fuel and other commodity costs to their customers, he adds.
David Huether, chief economist for the National Association of Manufacturers, cites diminished pricing power in sectors related to housing·nonmetallic minerals such as cement, bricks, and glass, as well as furniture makers. But food and chemical manufacturers, which together make up more than 27% of the manufacturing sector, have been able to raise prices over the past year...
MaplebardMessage #2200 - 04/22/10 03:07 PMI love how they say they exclude "volatile" food prices from the inflation index. I didn't know "volatile" meant steadily going up at a rapid rate. They even shrunk the width of toilet paper. Toilet paper? How can you "short" the consumer like that?
txbizownrMessage #2201 - 04/22/10 03:09 PMBGA, Our price increases are mainly on the vinyls/ pvc /plastic (petroleum) based products, which I believe is also used in the laminate floors correct??...as oil goes up..it's bad for our bottom line ..production / delivery ect. tx
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2202 - 04/22/10 03:28 PMThey even shrunk the width of toilet paper. Toilet paper? How can you "short" the consumer like that? That's giving it to the consumer right in the Rear End!
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2203 - 04/22/10 03:32 PMOur price increases are mainly on the vinyls/ pvc /plastic (petroleum) based products This is where our products have risen the most also ( Party Supply) I remember when plastics were cheaper than paper but plastics have pulled way ahead. Customers come in and think we are crazy for selling plastic products so high so they just don't realize the extent these products have increased over the past 5 years - And all the while the government touts our low inflation rates. Inflation is certainly alive and well in our business!
BGA4444Message #2204 - 04/22/10 03:54 PMTexBiz, I have never seen the low prices some companies are bidding on flooring jobs right now. Not only are we having to make it with less sales year over year but our margins have also fallen thru the floor. It looks like many companies are just trying to keep their guys busy and generate some "cash flow". The land lord came by the other day she is always upbeat and positive. We started talking about sales and business and she stated if it doesn't improve we can all just close up and go home. It is really hard to meet all the overhead and payroll obligations right now. I give credit to the owner that we are still in business. We are paying for a lot of materials we never got paid for. We have all taken pay cuts, around 40%, layed-off some employees, and now we are going to have to cut installers pay just to survive. I see no "recovery" at all. Hopefully Wall st. will at some point be a leading indicator. I just do not see any of the "stimulus" making it to Main st.
txbizownrMessage #2205 - 04/22/10 04:11 PMBGA Agreed, I see the same thing with other companies in my industry some selling at 10% or more below cost, if I have to match that all the time I might as well go home and call it quits... we are taking it literally week by week here..cash flow is in the toilet and I have my guys on basically part time..I have only had to lay off one person (last year) because I have cut everything else to the bone to keep them here..even that now is begining not to be enough with sales as they are... Small business is just getting plain hammered and only the ones with the deepest pockets is going to survive this IMHO.. tx
LivingInCaliMessage #2206 - 04/22/10 04:12 PMI follow this site that attempts to analyze retail trends to forward predict GDP in the economy. In the past they've been successful and about 6 months out in front of BEA numbers. They appear to be saying April was a really tough month. Here's the site www.consumerindexes.com/ and here's a brief except of what they are saying. As expected, the upturn in retail activities that we had observed at the end of March has faded since the impact of an earlier Easter buying season has passed. The forward shift in the Easter calendar created a favorable year-over-year sales boost that was at least partly responsible for the perceived consumer spending spree that was widely reported by the mainstream media. As of April 16th, our [www.consumerindexes.com/retail.html] Retail Index had returned to levels indicative of at year-over-year contraction in excess of 5%. That move was broadly observed amongst our other indexes, with eight of the ten sector indexes now moving in negative territory. Only the [www.consumerindexes.com/automotive.html] Automotive and [www.consumerindexes.com/health.html] Health Indexes were in a growth mode on April 16th, and both of those were down substantially from recent highs set on or about April 7th. To reiterate what we have been cautioning over the past few weeks:
1) The recent "surge" in consumer spending was to some extent predictable by simply observing that the forward shift of the Easter holiday would move some of the seasonal spending forward into the first quarter this year -- essentially 'robbing' April to 'pay' March in a zero sum game.
2) Although we also saw a short term rise in consumer transactions, the quality of those transactions was not very high. When the transactions were weighted according to their component contributions to the GDP we saw no rise at all. Big ticket items requiring longer term financial commitments were relatively scarce and our 'Weighted Composite Index' did not respond.
3) During the past week even that short term rise in transaction volumes has faded, and eight of our ten indexes is now showing year-over-year contraction.
4) We will continue to view self reported retail industry data with caution until state sales tax revenues begin to confirm their numbers. We have mentioned several times that there are several natural 'survivor biases' inherent in their sampling methodologies. Their standard metric of 'same store sales for store open at least a year' will over-report performance as long as the net number of retail stores is contracting. And the hardest hit mom-and-pop retailers are always under represented in those sales figures, even though they do show up in both the sales tax revenue reports and our data (at least for the on-line mom-and-pop stores).
HappyDaysareHereMessage #2207 - 04/22/10 04:12 PMHopefully Wall st. will at some point be a leading indicator. Wall Street is not a leading indicator even in its own business. Every morning, I take a look at the world's stock market and financial activity in general through the world market index. I don't bother with reading all the headings and trying to separate industry from industry or country from country and analyze or relate the performance of each. Just look for the blood! Take a look and see what I mean. www.indexq.org/ If the overall effect is red, Wall street will be down, as it is today. If the overall effect is green, Wall Street is up. Don't even have to be able to count! The US market's are at the tail end of the day. The international dateline is out in the middle of the Pacific, so the orient gets the jump on us. They set the mood and the mid-east and Europe follow in their turn as the sun rises. We bring up the tail end of the day's trading. It's not infallible, but it is more reliable than a lot of charts and math floating around deluding everyone. Nor is it long-term, but, then, trading today is not set up for long-termers. What I propose is that Wall Street is more reactive than trend-setting than they would like you to believe.
djrickMessage #2208 - 04/22/10 08:14 PMWashington, D.C. (Apr 22) · With the Senate minority dragging their feet over nominations, and arguing against Financial Reform hopes are fading that the Senate will have time to introduce any additional aid in the form of unemployment extensions for the nations long-term unemployed. worldnewsvine.com/2010/04/unemployment-extension-tier-v-questionable-before-break/one of the comments after the article>>> Friday is mail your congressman your resume day along with a letter asking to extend the unemployment tiers or find you a job. Some talking points you might want to consider are: If the budget is the most concern, did your congressman vote to extend aid to foreign countries (millions of dollars), not just Haiti? Are the American people not as important? The money that we currently give other countries far surpasses money you would give to those that are now homeless in America. Did you congressman vote for appropriations to other countries this past year or year before? We will check your record to see. People who receive unemployment are more likely to be able to pay some of their bills (although not all). This puts money back into the economy prevents further deterioration of ones credit and keeps more people in their homes. There is growing civil unrest in our country and unemployed unhappy people are adding to the growing momentum. If the people have no shelter, food or way to support their families they have nothing to loose. The first thing they will do is vote incumbents out of office regardless of party and get someone working for them. Are your congressman working for the people?
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:10:39 GMT -5
djrickMessage #2209 - 04/22/10 08:15 PMI wonder if we will see a divergence between the household estimated U-3 percentage and the number of people claiming. If claims drop, but U-3 stays high, then we have an increasing problem of people without work and without any benefits.
txbizownrMessage #2210 - 04/22/10 08:24 PMthen we have an increasing problem of people without work and without any benefits. DJ This is exactly what we have... tx
BGA4444Message #2211 - 04/22/10 08:30 PMThat (I) by a incumbent politician's name stands for "I" need a job next election!
great depression1Message #2212 - 04/22/10 08:30 PMwho brought the big money in at 1 pm today........banksters again and bernake I assume.
neohguyMessage #2213 - 04/22/10 08:36 PMAn interesting article about unemployment www.businessinsider.com/fully-70-of-american-households-are-still-experiencing-financial-problems-2010-4 Forget 10% Unemployment, The Real Job Loss Pain Number Is 54%
BGA4444Message #2214 - 04/22/10 08:55 PMIn states where the unemployment rate is above 5% lower the minimum retirement age every three months till unemployment gets to 5%. When unemployment stabilizes raise the retirement age back up.
LivingInCaliMessage #2215 - 04/22/10 09:18 PMIn states where the unemployment rate is above 5% lower the minimum retirement age every three months till unemployment gets to 5%. When unemployment stabilizes raise the retirement age back up. How exactly does this help? Trade unemployment checks for social security checks. The money still comes from the tax payer or is borrowed from a foreign country.
BGA4444Message #2216 - 04/22/10 10:07 PMLiving, have you heard about all the forced and opt out retirements going on already. If the old guys take early retirement maybe someone from the lost generation can find a job. Your suggestion was? You either find them a way to get a job or they are on welfare or you are paying for their care in jail! That is the other options. We could throw out the illegals but that aint happening! And your suggestion was?
LivingInCaliMessage #2217 - 04/22/10 10:23 PMIf the old guys take early retirement maybe someone from the lost generation can find a job. Your suggestion was? I think the best solution would be to get this forclosure process rolling and get people into affordable living arrangements. For all the efforts the government has gone through to keep home price elevated has cost a lot of jobs in this economy. If a person making $40-50K per year could buy a home for $120K then they should have money left over for home improvements and other activities that stimulate jobs. By overextending themselves and buying homes for $250K they don't have any income left over for other things. Buying a home for $250K and having 90% of the $2K payment going to interest payments for the banks doesn't do much to help the economy. Force the forclosures through the market at affordable prices and you create jobs.
engleclairMessage #2218 - 04/22/10 11:49 PMWhen people have nothing left to lose, they lose it.
FetonaMessage #2219 - 04/23/10 01:25 AMI think the best solution would be to get this forclosure process rolling and get people into affordable living arrangements. For all the efforts the government has gone through to keep home price elevated has cost a lot of jobs in this economy. 
BGA4444Message #2220 - 04/23/10 11:29 AMI am going to give you guys a fine example of the problem. My son buys a home three years ago. Gets a good deal from one of our builders at about 20,000 less than value 172,000 puts 5000 grand down so finances about 170,000 after everything is said and done. His payment is 1400 a month 30 year at about 7 1/2 percent. Now the value has dropped to 140,000 and he can not refinace even though rates are at 4-5 %. He basically is just screwed. He is considering just walking away. I can not understand for one year why the government does not approve refis at what is owed on the house not what it is worth. This would make the homes more affordable, slow foreclosures and put money back in the economy! He would be more than happy to stay with a lower payment. Suggestions?
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:11:31 GMT -5
neohguyMessage #2221 - 04/23/10 11:45 AMI am going to give you guys a fine example of the problem. My son buys a home three years ago. Gets a good deal from one of our builders at about 20,000 less than value 172,000 puts 5000 grand down so finances about 170,000 after everything is said and done. His payment is 1400 a month 30 year at about 7 1/2 percent. Now the value has dropped to 140,000 and he can not refinace even though rates are at 4-5 %. He basically is just screwed. He is considering just walking away. I can not understand for one year why the government does not approve refis at what is owed on the house not what it is worth. This would make the homes more affordable, slow foreclosures and put money back in the economy! He would be more than happy to stay with a lower payment. Suggestions? This is a good example of deterioration of morals. During the great depression, property values plummeted but people still struggled to make payments. Well, we might as well hand this problem off to younger generations like everything else. They will probably have to have a 25% down payment to discourage this irresponsibility.
DriftrMessage #2222 - 04/23/10 12:55 PMThe kid never should have been allowed into the house with less than 20% down. Irresponsible of the lender to allow this whiney kid into a home with just 3% down. I see nothing in his life that changed other than now he thinks he should get a lower mortgage payment just because his house is worth less. Tell him to walk away BGA and please be sure to fill us all in when he gets turned down for the next loan he tries for. I'll enjoy the laugh. The sooner these boneheads stop looking at their houses as places to flip and instead start looking at them as places to live, this country will be one step further away from the brink. -All IMHO of course...
BGA4444Message #2223 - 04/23/10 01:38 PMWell a holes he of course would prefer to sell the house but he cant do that because of the lending institutions loaning to everyone that could not afford to buy and now his home value has plummeted because of that. So who doesn't have morals. He has made every payment early. He has great credit but that does not help him in this situation. 20% down what a joke no one would own a house. You guys must think foreclosures just started with this crisis. I talked to a agent who walked away years ago from a house and she had NO PROBLEM getting a new home no money down. They work the system just like Wall st. I guess you two have no problem investing in companies with no morals. I bet both of you are heavy in GOLDMAN-SLAX congratulations for having morals and your great suggestions.
DriftrMessage #2224 - 04/23/10 01:48 PMEdited out for double-post that I added to in the next one.
DriftrMessage #2225 - 04/23/10 01:52 PMWhy does he want to sell the house? Why did he buy a house with the intent to sell it 3 years later? Who's been advising this poor kid on finances all his life? I'd expect I do own a little GS stock via my index fund selections in my current ER 401(k). I do not hold any direct shares of it though. Actually, I've probably shorted it more via FAZ the last 12 months than I've 'owned' it via FAS in that timeframe. I talked to a agent who walked away years ago from a house and she had NO PROBLEM getting a new home no money down. They work the system just like Wall st. Are you complaining they did that or thinking your son should follow their example? I'm confused. I think any bank dumb enough to loan money without 20% or more down to someone who walked away from a mortgage once deserves what they get (good or bad). 20% down what a joke no one would own a house. Why not? Would people be forced to actually save a little for something before they bought it? I'll tell you right now, my wife and I did an 80/10/10 and had the 10% second paid off in 18 months. I wanted to do 80/20, but she wanted to keep more cash available just in case. Did we 'waste' some money doing it that way? I think so, but it made her happy and she felt safer, so that was our choice.
neohguyMessage #2226 - 04/23/10 01:56 PMYou guys must think foreclosures just started with this crisis. I talked to a agent who walked away years ago from a house and she had NO PROBLEM getting a new home no money down. They work the system just like Wall st. You guys must think foreclosures just started with this crisis. I talked to a agent who walked away years ago from a house and she had NO PROBLEM getting a new home no money down. They work the system just like Wall st. I agree with many of your posts BGA but two wrongs do not make a right. As I've posted many times before, WS and politicians are just a reflection of the citizens today. Everybody rationalizing a reason to do the wrong thing. Nobody giving a dam about the young and the yet born having to pay for it.
JnapMessage #2227 - 04/23/10 02:40 PMBga, You have a good point about your son being able to refinance at a lower rate. The difference in monthly payments with a 7.5% interest rate versus 5.0% is $275.00 a month on a $170,000.00, 30 year mortgage. I do think it is a good deal for him and the finance company assuming he stays in the house for the next 5 years or at least until property values recover. But, I have several questions. Does he have a secure enough job to make his payments for the next 5 years? Does his income meet the lending requirements for a $170,000.00 mortgage? If the answer is yes then he should be able to re-finance. Helping people like your son stay in their homes is key to getting the economy and housing market to recover. Each time some one walks away from their home everybody suffers. While I agree that there is personal responsibility involved in making a commitment and sticking with it, I also know we are experiencing something no body believed would happen; falling housing prices. I can think of no time in the last 50 years when that has happened. It is this precedence that led mortgage companies, financial institutions and banks to lend increasingly large amounts of money to people that didn·t exactly qualify. This and the belief that even if the mortgage holder defaulted there would be plenty of equity left to protect the lender. A lot of people made that bet and a lot of people lost. One constant question comes up on this message board and it is ·where is the magic formula to get us out of this mess·, who has it and when can we get our hands on it·? Sorry folks but it just doesn·t exist. You can vote for someone else, blame the government, blame Wall Street, and blame the lender all you want but that isn·t going to help the individual. Only one thing will cure this problem: time and we have a long timeframe remaining. Here is something interesting in today Orlando Sentinel. It says that homes sales were up 36% compared to last March although prices dropped only 3% in the same timeframe. Some think it is because of the tax credit deadline of April 30th but at least it is an improvement.
txbizownrMessage #2228 - 04/23/10 02:56 PMIt says that homes sales were up 36% compared to last March although prices dropped only 3% in the same timeframe. Some think it is because of the tax credit deadline of April 30th but at least it is an improvement. Jnap, You have that right...I do a lot of business with realtors and they are scrambling like crazy to get everyone in before the deadline, once that expires I believe we will see another slump in sales. tx
Crying TreeMessage #2229 - 04/23/10 03:00 PMDirftr is right on about 20% down. Make it a partnership with the mortgage holder and not the walk away and the lender loses. Too much I want for free and you owe me a lower payment because I'm better than than those who saved 20% instead of giving it to me for nothing. I heard too much for these kids who will not be working at my age and will retire at 45. Where did they get that attitude? TV? Most lost all the toys and homes but not the cell phones, cars and please help me do it all over again.
BGA4444Message #2230 - 04/23/10 03:14 PMJnap, I agree with your post. It is nice to hear someone with some reason and logic. The government seems to think throwing money at the problem will fix it. I believe some ways to fix the problems exist using good sound business logic. However, faced with corrupt politicians/big business I doubt their ability to find their way to the answers.
BGA4444Message #2231 - 04/23/10 03:22 PMCrying, at the current and projected retirement rate, ages, and inflation rate 90 % of us will be working till the day we die. Social security will have to cut benefits to stay afloat and the dollars they pay you will have 50% of the buying power of the dollars that were paid in. Government employees will get pounded because they can not pay what they offered as retirement. It will be a very different America over the next fifty years.
DriftrMessage #2232 - 04/23/10 03:22 PMBGA - Who eats the aprox 25k loss on the loan if the bank writes the mortgage down to the current MV?
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:12:24 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #2233 - 04/23/10 03:32 PMBGA4444- If they use social security for retirement and get it out of the general fund it will be fine. The United States government promised it would be for retirement only. Make them live up to it or they will steal it blind like their doing now. 50 years ago was different & better. Maybe 50 years into the future will be the same. Now is bad as most young refuse to live up to their responsibilities. They walk away from their financial obligations and want to justify it. That will never fly for long in any generations. They need to pay their own way in life and learn from their mistakes or beg for help forever.
JnapMessage #2234 - 04/23/10 04:51 PMCrying tree, A lot of learning is going on as we write but irresponsibility on some parts should not cause all parts to suffer. And I am not just talking about home owners that walk away. Those that went out of their way to get these folks financed thinking it would all work out are, in some ways, equally responsible. Government, at all levels, that benefitted from greatly increase tax collections benefitted as did contractors that raised their prices as fast as they could trying to make as much money as possible in the shortest length of time. It is hard to find someone a couple of years ago that wasn't tickled pink with the economic activity going on and all of these people were responsible to a greater or lesser degree. The issue that is being debated here is what do we do about it? My answer is nothing and everything. The nothing is for those that are beyond helping such as people that should never have been qualified for a loan they could never pay back and everything for those that are able but are being ignored. I like the shotgun approach where we fire every solution we can at the proper target and not waste one shell on those that are beyond help. Please understand I am talking about the housing situation not other social programs. If another tax credit, for housing is needed after this one expires, lets have it. If mortgage modifications help some lets do it. Many solutions are needed when many different problems exist and all of them combined will eventually succeed.
ReLoansVallartaMessage #2235 - 04/23/10 05:21 PMBGA. Who did your son get his loan from? Was it a local broker/bank or what? The reason I ask is, I have been in the real estate loan business for 20 years and 7.5% is a really high rate on residential loans for excellent credit. Do most of the people on this board understand what yield spread premium is when it comes to mortgage loans? (YSP). When it comes to locking a clients rate on any given day, at any given time, depending on what the market is doing. . ?? They are asking themselves when that time comes. . (What do I want to get on the back?) YSP. . .How many mortgage brokers will show you a lender rate sheet? How many brokers will explain how loans are priced to their client? Do you think the telemarketer/social engineer in a completely different state cares about your neighbors rate and payment? The 3 major credit bureaus sell your information as soon as it hits their data base, that you are applying for a mortgage. Here come the phone calls and they have a live one. . Bank of Countrywide was very well known for their tactics with their telemarketers. . Where is Mazillo now?
BGA4444Message #2236 - 04/23/10 06:04 PMDrif, He is not asking for that. He would like to have the entire mortgage amount about 165,000 refinanced. But because the home is only valued at 140,000 they will not refi it. I am saying the government should let banks refi for what is owed on the homes right now. Not their current value. It would solve a lot of problems.
DriftrMessage #2237 - 04/23/10 06:18 PMI think it would be a great idea to have a Govt program that'd insure the difference between current MV and loan value for people with good credit that are looking to refinance. That'd make a lot of sense.
KrisKringleGingleBellsMessage #2238 - 04/23/10 06:51 PMThis is a good example of deterioration of morals. Neohguy, people don't like it when you start talking morals. I have a fair amount of knowledge regarding the foreclosure crisis from the homeowners' end of things. In addition to my day job, I also do freelance writing and get paid to do some guest writing for a personal finance blog. Last month I wrote a post about how homeowners needed to consider all of the negative aspects of strategic default. Boy did I get taken to task from some of the readers for daring to bring morals into the discussion. Apparently there are a fair amount of people who think that morals have place in business, which, IMHO, is why we're in a lot of the trouble we're in in this country. BGA, I'm also curious why your son is considering walking. Did his financial situation change in the past couple of years? Is he absolutely unable to make his mortgage payments?
neohguyMessage #2239 - 04/23/10 06:52 PMI am saying the government should let banks refi for what is owed on the homes right now. Not their current value. It would solve a lot of problems. As far as I know, the government does allow the banks to refinance. I don't think it would be a good business decision in most cases. I think it would be a great idea to have a Govt program that'd insure the difference between current MV and loan value for people with good credit that are looking to refinance. That'd make a lot of sense. Replace the word government with citizen, since we are the ones that would have to "insure" the difference. If they had good credit then they would be able to cough up the 25k to refinance with more favorable terms. If they don't have 25k then their credit is not as good as they think it might be. Your son has zero equity. I'm not trying to be confrontational. My sister and I had some income property for many years. We refinanced for a more favorable rate but we had to come up with a chunk of change to do it, and we had equity. What if housing values fall another 15% ?
ŽMessage #2240 - 04/24/10 01:20 PM This just my opinion and it involves morals so if that's disagreeable to any then just scroll past this message. I don't think it's right for someone to walk away from a mortgage if they can help it. At the same time I have to point out that it was our generation (Boomers) that brought the wholesale destruction of traditional values in this country. Not everyone was responsible for this and many speak out against it. neohguy, for one, is an example of those that speak out against it but there are more on this board and elsewhere that do too. It was our generation that tore down traditional morals, ethics, responsibility to society, the family unit and we have, and still are, spending the future tax dollars of our children and grandchildren so that we can live better than we deserve to. The tremendous debt and the destruction of traditional values is what we are passing on to the next two generations. That's why our generation can't point the finger at BGA4444's son without three fingers pointing right back at us. I wonder how the history books will record us (Boomers) that came right after the Greatest Generation that sacrificed to fight in WWII? Possibly as the Most Contemptible generation.
BGA4444Message #2241 - 04/24/10 02:41 PMDave Ramsey, a pretty famous financial writer and talk show host filed bankruptcy years ago. Do you guys think he did that because he has no morals? He did that because he saw no other way out. Do you guys know the foreclosure rate? I believe it is between 3 and 5% and set to rise like a rocket this year. If the average was 3% of all mortgages during the period 2000 - 2010 that would mean 30% of all homeowners lost their homes over this period. You guys talk morals when you vote for guys with no morals who use our money to bailout companies with no morals put supreme court justices on the bench with no morals and you think you have the right to say my son who I would bet has more morals than any of you has none. This is market talk. I simple brought up his situation because that situation is what a lot of us are in. He works for a Chevy dealership and has recently taken a pay cut and more probably will be coming. He is simply weighing his options to me and I ask for suggestions from you all who I respect. I did not ask for you people to judge his character and I do not appreciate it!
neohguyMessage #2242 - 04/24/10 05:04 PMI'm going to try a different direction because we are not really talking about someone's son here. My comments were not directed at anybody personally. I agree with Z, I don't think history will look very favorably at my boomer generation. Too bad, because we started out on the right path but are now leaving behind a huge mess for future generations to clean up. Beginning in 1985, the US citizen all of a sudden had easy access to credit that no other generation had access to. Credit cards were easier to get (limits might have been only a few thousand) and FHA loans were available with only 3-5% down if you could meet certain standards. I bought my first house later that decade with 10% down so that I could get what was then a very favorable rate of 7.5%. My wife and I planned on prepaying against the principal but the amortization schedule book that we bought earlier in that decade only went down to 9%! By 1995, average Joe had credit card limits of 10k-15k per card, had several cards, had little or no money in the bank, could purchase or lease cars with little to no money down, buy a house with little money down at 6% interest, and buy every imaginable toy available whether it be boats, motorcycles, computers, or ATV's on credit. This was not normal or good but it got worse. By 2000, anybody with a pulse could get a credit card with a high limit, borrow money for a house for more than what it was worth and use the extra money to pay off some cards so that they could max them out again, and play the balance transfer and refi game. 2008, party over and massive hangover. I understand why young people may think that credit is a right but I'm surprised at the short memories of many people my age that don't remember the difficulty of getting credit in the 70's, inflation during that period, the recession of the early eighties, mortgage rates of greater than 10% for years etc. I'm even more amazed at their belief that things will go back to normal and they think that normal was 1985 to 2005 which was actually abnormal and not healthy!
BGA4444Message #2243 - 04/24/10 05:23 PMNeo, my first home in 1980 had a rate of 14.5%. I put 10% down and got a special program where the payments went up very slow and gradually for 5 years. I refinanced in 1988 for a 8.5 rate. That took my payment below the initial 500 per month payment. That really helped with 4 children and # 5 on the way. I just do not see any help from the lenders to help abate this crisis! There are answers. The truth is out there.
common_sense.Message #2244 - 04/24/10 11:35 PMBy 1995, average Joe had credit card limits of 10k-15k per card, had several cards, had little or no money in the bank, could purchase or lease cars with little to no money down, buy a house with little money down at 6% interest, and buy every imaginable toy available whether it be boats, motorcycles, computers, or ATV's on credit. This was not normal or good but it got worse. By 2000, anybody with a pulse could get a credit card with a high limit, borrow money for a house for more than what it was worth and use the extra money to pay off some cards so that they could max them out again, and play the balance transfer and refi game. Wow, that is a bullseye! Most forms of local, state and federal government were dependant upon the above and it is GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! add the future mortgage resets, current banking situation, unemployment, govt deficits and debt, state defitcits, currency devaluation and BOOM. It is going to get deeper and darker, but the question is when?
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:13:16 GMT -5
Stay PutMessage #2245 - 04/25/10 09:52 PMBGA, I think that it is a testament to the very title that has seen this thread outlast every other on this board. Facts will always outlast lies, and other cons.
BGA4444Message #2246 - 04/26/10 12:07 AMThanks Stay put. I hope one day soon this thread can be retired forever. I am glad to see it used so there is a voice for those in need and still suffering!
djrickMessage #2247 - 04/26/10 08:59 PM We hit another record....19 million vacant housing units. Rally on. BofA has announced a 600% increase in foreclosure sales by the end of this year, ending with 45k sales by December. Without the props of tax credits and liquidity injections, the market price will be the price where this inventory will clear. I wouldn't be against further declines. BofA will probably meet their target because from what I am hearing on the ground they are foreclosing willy nilly.
djrickMessage #2248 - 04/26/10 09:01 PM[ blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/04/24/number-of-the-week-103-months-to-clear-housing-inventory/?source=patrick.net] Number of the Week: 103 Months to Clear Housing Inventory - Real Time Economics - WSJ
BGA4444Message #2249 - 04/26/10 09:43 PMDJ, that 103 months is along time! That is really bad for all homeowners and builders. Hey look at the positive we could all be employed by Goldman-Sachs.lol I truly believe after seeing the lawsuits coming on board today they actually might just go down. But wait were they not to big to fail?
djrickMessage #2250 - 04/26/10 10:39 PMHi BG, I have not been following news as closely but I have to say that 103 months to clear the housing inventory really grabbed me, yes, it is a very long time. After the initial reports, have not followed where the GS news is at, just would guess it will be a field day for the attorneys, although I've suspected GS wants to go private anyway with their share price at about $125, time will tell. Meanwhile, our futile attempts to save the "system" that have prevented resolution. We are running out of time. The spectre of inflation stalks food and energy.
BGA4444Message #2251 - 04/27/10 11:22 AMI wonder how so much money can be printed and spent and inflation stay low. I have been saying for months the market surge has been Wall st. inflation driven. That is much money handed to Wall st. banks but not making it to main st. The wheels of credit were not greased by the bailout. I am with a company that bids and gets a lot of large commercial jobs. In the past 12 months we have seen funding pulled from projects midstream. Huge jobs where lenders decided not to proceed. I believe all the money was thrown back into the market. That money turned huge profits for the banks allowing nearly all to pay back the government loans quickly. In some cases the government refused to accept repayments they deemed were to "early" making the banks hold on to the money. This whole thing stinks terribly. The worst crisis since the great depression and it is cured by Washington in less than two years. Yeah right! Something is very very fishy. I hope Decoy has not laid out another one of his "traps".lol
neohguyMessage #2252 - 04/27/10 01:16 PMGeez, hard to find a place to post anything that sounds bearish since the return of the bulltards www.cnbc.com/id/36795861 Greece Just Tip of Debt Crisis Iceberg: Roubini The sovereign debt crisis will get worse and bond vigilantes could move on to even bigger economies like the United States and Japan when they are done sweeping through vulnerable European nations, according to economist Nouriel Roubini.
With government debt across the world soaring, the man who predicted the credit crunch is predicting a reckoning.
"The recent problems faced by Greece are only the tip of a sovereign-debt iceberg in many advanced economies,· Roubini told readers of his RGE Monitor Web site......
Bubbles are easy to see coming and have had similar characteristics since Tulip mania hit the Netherlands in the 17th century, he said.
"An asset bubble -- often in real estate or in stock markets or in a new industry -- leads to financial euphoria, excessive risk taking, an accumulation of excessive debt and leverage,· Roubini wrote.
·So the signposts of this phase -- asset boom and bubble, followed by the eventual bust and crash - are highly predictable if one looks at the economic and financial indicators that show the build-up of such excesses."......"The trouble is that in the bubble phase nearly everyone, the exception being a few critical analysts, is swept in a delusional bubble mania of irrational euphoria: households, financial institutions, investors, governments, spinmeisters all of whom profit from the bubble, including Ponzi-schemers who concoct their houses of cards and financial con games," he wrote
ŽMessage #2253 - 04/27/10 01:23 PM I'm not sure where all of the bullish sentiment is coming from today. The articles that I've had time to read so far have a lot of negative info for the markets. I'm sure there are things going on that are over my head though.
ŽMessage #2254 - 04/27/10 01:29 PM Maybe this is what's getting the bulls worked up... finance.yahoo.com/news/Home-price-index-shows-1st-apf-4247282484.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=
great depression1Message #2255 - 04/27/10 01:32 PMIts been game over for 2 years almost...............I saved our cash and when the end finally comes Im buying into real estate. Although it means trips back to the states as we have already moved to south america.
great depression1Message #2256 - 04/27/10 01:42 PMMaybe this is what's getting the bulls worked up... Its all artificial and plastic....................the free market is being manipulated as we all know.........trying to rebuild value into something that was over sold before and now we are paying twice for the same collapse......tax dollars wasted to create inflationary prices on values that arent sustainable........add in no jobs.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:14:08 GMT -5
neohguyMessage #2257 - 04/27/10 01:43 PMMaybe this is what's getting the bulls worked up... I didn't see much in that article with the exception of hope. Although some of our posters act like perma bulls, they will jump ship at the first sign of a major trend change.
outaheresoonMessage #2258 - 04/27/10 01:48 PMI saved our cash and when the end finally comes Im buying into real estate. When the end comes, I hope that your cash is still worth something. That is, unless you have silver and gold.
BGA4444Message #2259 - 04/28/10 03:07 PM44% of unemployed have been for over 6 months. I read a post that says at that point a unemployed person begins to lose some of the skills that enabled him/her to function in a business environment. As if loss of the job, home, retirement nest egg, emergency savings, car, insurance(car & health & life), self respect, dignity, humor, and in some cases life wasn't enough. I assume the 17 -22 year olds do not have many of these "items" or skill sets to lose or the coping skills. The key to getting a job is interacting with people and do not give up. Hiring seems to be improving somewhat. One area is temp agencies. They are starting to get more calls every day. Many churches try to help their congregation with postings. Get involved and stay busy. Donate your time. It will make you feel better and could lead to a good contact. Hone your skills. If you are unemployed and reading market talk. Post something, respond to this post, just interact every chance you get.
djrickMessage #2260 - 04/28/10 05:13 PM As long as we have WalMart part time employees and WalMart part time employed shoppers - the world is just fine. How long can we bump along with the lowest common denominator economy? From Ylan Q. Mui and Neil Irwin at the WaPo: [ www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/27/AR2010042705328.html] Consumer confidence is up, but test looms "Some would say there is a recovery taking place," [Wal-Mart chief executive Mike Duke] said during a meeting with Washington Post editors and reporters. "The lower-income and middle-income customers . . . they still feel the pressure." In addition, he said that the weak housing market continued to hold back the recovery in states such as Florida and Nevada. During the boom years, many jobs in those states were fueled by a surge of construction that has since abated, drying up the demand for labor. "It will take housing to create some of those jobs," Duke said.
djrickMessage #2261 - 04/29/10 07:38 PMAnyone live in the DC area, I hear from someone today that the area is BOOMING, just live fed.gov is tossing free $ around, restaurants full, very few commercial spaces empty, new cars, new clothes, etc. Anyone??
Crying TreeMessage #2262 - 04/29/10 07:59 PMHow about a few scraps off the table for the rest of us not living in D.C. or Texas?
djrickMessage #2263 - 04/29/10 09:51 PM Did Ben predict the crisis? So why would anyone beleive him now, besides wanting to believe? Ben thinks the banks ARE the country. (Not the people) He will raise rates after the CRE debacle has been refinanced. He doesn't give a rats butt about unemployed citizens and never has. Take care of yourself, nothing has changed.
djrickMessage #2264 - 04/29/10 09:59 PMfrom New York state: [ www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/04/29/2010-04-29_gov_do_what_i_say_or_else.html] Gov. Paterson: Give me power to furlough state workers - or risk shutting down the government
djrickMessage #2265 - 04/30/10 12:43 AMFrom Bloomberg: [ www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8qJXfNS3RaQ&pos=7] More Than a Million in U.S. May Lose Jobless Benefits Desperate people + Cut in Services * Each Week it Continues = An Interesting Election
BGA4444Message #2266 - 04/30/10 11:57 AM DJ, when those folks lose their benefits we will see how good Wal-Mart's next quarter is, along with a lot of other companies. I believe that we should help our own and if it means cutting out foreign aide so be it!
outaheresoonMessage #2267 - 04/30/10 12:10 PMDesperate people + Cut in Services * Each Week it Continues = An Interesting Election
Something tells me it's going to be an interesting rest of our lives.
djrickMessage #2268 - 05/03/10 01:19 PMLOS ANGELES, April 27, 2010 Hundreds Wait for Free Health Care in L.A. Before Health Reform Kicks in, Remote Area Medical -- an Organization Founded to Aid the Third World -- Steps Inhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/27/eveningnews/main6438064.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPrStan Brock. "There really is a problem here in the United States," Brock said, "it's not just in the Amazon and in places like Haiti." Brock started [ www.ramusa.org/] Remote Area Medical 25 years ago, getting American doctors to volunteer and bring modern medicine to the Third World. Bock said "64 percent of everything we do is here in America." [ www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4256735n] 60 Minutes: Remote Area Medical [ www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/13/eveningnews/main5240824.shtml] His first L.A. clinic last year -- his largest ever -- served 6,334 patients. He expects 2,000 more this year. "We've got middle class people here, we have a lot of working poor here," said Dr. Natalie Nevins. People rocked by recession. Mandatory health care reform doesn't kick in for four years. "So meanwhile, do we tell those patients to wait?" Nevins asked. "We can't." Even with health reform, the most affordable plan won't cover adult vision or dental care. There was a happy ending Tuesday. Daisy Glover got a chipped tooth repaired to go on a job interview. The clinic's scheduled to go from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. for seven days.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:15:01 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2269 - 05/03/10 02:33 PM Saturday a lady came in to the flooring store says she works for a insurance company. She says her largest competitor is none other than AIG. She stated that AIG will cut profits to even losing money to get business. That company is who we saved! We all would have been better off to close them down. It is just a matter of time before it happens all over again. I also heard Buffet talking about derivatives on CNBC this morning. Now that his buddies over at Goldman are in trouble he has really changed his story on the market. Now he says everyone took risk and lost money. He really keeps his mouth closed about derivatives even though I heard him say derivatives were the greatest risk to the markets before the meltdown. He floated Goldman a bunch of cash during the crisis to make sure his "buddies" stayed afloat. I really thought Buffet was just a hard working good guy done good. I guess he is just a crook too.
txbizownrMessage #2270 - 05/05/10 02:48 PMPrivate sector adds 32,000 jobs in April [ finance.yahoo.com/news/Private-sector-adds-32000-rb-2483489969.html;_ylt=AqPfIEzIPCHSnWgZ4k3GbNfeba9_;_ylu=X3oDMTE2M3FwbzZrBHBvcwM0BHNlYwN0b3Atc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDcHJpdmF0ZXNlY3Rv?x=0] finance.yahoo.com/news/Private-sector-adds-32000-rb-2483489969.html;_ylt=AqPfIEzIPCHSnWgZ4k3GX3oDMTE2M3FwbzZrBHBv...at this rate everyone will be employeed in... oh... 30 years...This has been handled so poorly... tx
txbizownrMessage #2271 - 05/05/10 03:05 PMRetail data: Consumers 'took a breather' in April finance.yahoo.com/news/Retail-data-Consumers-took-a-apf-1861174646.html?x=0 First they blame it on the snow...now the rain...it is not getting better tx
Crying TreeMessage #2272 - 05/05/10 03:14 PMWithout the get rich quick dot comes & phony housing market this is your real economy until some other dimwit comes up with another scam. Back around 1990 is where we are today.
djrickMessage #2273 - 05/05/10 04:24 PMOne can just visit ( daily job cuts ) to see the amount of job losses taking place daily, so I am very skeptical about this so called 32,000 created jobs. The amount of school layoffs taking place is mind numbing.
neohguyMessage #2274 - 05/05/10 04:31 PM
One can just visit ( daily job cuts ) to see the amount of job losses taking place daily, so I am very skeptical about this so called 32,000 created jobs.
The amount of school layoffs taking place is mind numbing. Many of those layoffs will be difficult to identify. Accrued sick time and vacation pay will have to be used up before they become eligible for unemployment compensation.
great depression1Message #2275 - 05/05/10 05:04 PMYou cant believe anything put out by the news media or the govmnt..............especially economic news.......as soon as you read it..........2 days later the revised outlook is this........blah blah blah!!!! All it does is get the retards to buy into a market 1 day and provide plastic climbs in the dow,then watch the fools lose it 3-4 days later when it comes back down on new corrected numbers..........whose to blame for fleecing the retards even more......Uncle sam.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2276 - 05/05/10 05:16 PMWe just got another letter from another major supplier for us ( Unique Industries, Inc) They will be raising prices 1 July 7-10% on all products. The inflation is certainly out there - I'm not sure how the government is hiding it. This summer is the first wave of inflation and I expect it might escalate from there. Both manufacturers that have announced price increases have stated the same things : Dear Valued Customer: "As we are all aware, the economic environment continues to challenge us in ways we have never previously experienced. Due to increases in labor, raw materials, regulatory testing and health care, the cost of manufacturing, procuring and shipping products from around the world continues to rise. Unique is particularly affected by rising costs of plastics, papers and raw latex, which are used in the manufacturing process of a large portion of our products. Unfortunately, we have no option but to raise our prices at this time" What frustrates me is that customers blame us - The government tells them there is no inflation so they think we are raising the prices.
Crying TreeMessage #2277 - 05/05/10 05:31 PMStill a lot of businesses going under. Countries printing cash they can't pay for including the USA. Man made recession-depression still lurks in the back ground. Wreckage left over from crooks and thieves is up for sale for the next sucker.
Jedi 007Message #2278 - 05/05/10 06:16 PMThis system does need new management. All of it. So does the Capital Hill - & NOT DEM or REP. If only a strong new party would take over with real change.
Stay PutMessage #2279 - 05/05/10 06:16 PMHere's an analogy that I just thought of. The economy is like a person who has fallen out of a plane (w/out a chute) at 20,000 feet. The Bulls will tell you; "Hey, look! There's a lake down there. We're going to be OK." Have you ever done a belly flop off a diving board? From a distance of 20,000 feet it really doesn't matter what you hit.
Crying TreeMessage #2280 - 05/05/10 10:32 PMIt would be terrible for the rich to go without. Let's give them all the stimulus money and we, the working class, can suffer their share. Banks were making housing loans to those out of bankruptcy less than a year. Give them some money too. They know how to handle money or cheat you out of yours with fines that don't match the non payment. Don't give the honest anything, they are not team players in bankrupting the country. AIG, the flag ship of corruption, sails off spending money like nothing happened. The fast talking lawyer, The double talking Feds and the sheeps of America will get those who put us here out of this financial mess. The rest of you hard workers, honest Americans, and patriots - too bad for you.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:15:53 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2281 - 05/07/10 11:26 AMKarl of CNBC fame was in Greece today interviewing a professor from a Greek University. The professor stated he could care less about the debt because it was either Wall st. or London who has stolen the Greek's money. I have a feeling all countries, who have gotten in bed with Wall st. and other large financial institutions, peoples feel the same way. It is not like a simple loan. This is loan shark rates and many countries feel as though Wall st. has screwed them. Maybe they will all just starve to pay us back our money. I think not. I believe like Greece many others will tell us where to go. The guys from Wall st. will be there already!
Crying TreeMessage #2282 - 05/07/10 02:46 PMIt wasn't Wall Street. Where there is money there is corruption. Poor enforcement by the S.E.C. and a general opinion- Why work when you can steal from others. Clean up the place and have strict rules where there is money or nothing will change.
Stay PutMessage #2283 - 05/07/10 02:59 PMIt wasn't Wall Street. Where there is money there is corruption. That's only half right. The unions have totally bankrupted Greece, and are using Wall Street as the scape goat. Wait a minute. That's sounds awful familiar. It's like a mirror image of another country. Hold on. Hold on, I'll figure it out. Oh yeah! America.
SteveJJMessage #2284 - 05/07/10 03:02 PMBut government is in a record growth bubble!
ArdmanMessage #2285 - 05/07/10 03:12 PMPulling all your money out of the stock market is not the answer, it will only contribute to the already plunging market. If, God forbid, we do experience another great depression, your money is going to be practically worthless!. I'm no financial or economic wizard, far from it, I have no clue as to how things can be fixed, just like everyone else. To say just strap yourself in and ride it out, may seem simplistic or even apathetic, but what else is there to do?, no matter what actions are taken or will be taken, it's going to hurt everyone, question will be, which action will do more harm than no action?.
BGA4444Message #2286 - 05/07/10 03:20 PMThey are saying for every percent decline in government spending in Greece there will be a two percent decline in GDP. This is a vicious cycle where there is no answer. Complete default is the only answer for Greece. For America we just have to monetize the debt slowly over time. Problem with Greece they don't print their own currency so they can not monetize the debt. Basically Greece along with the rest of us are just screwed!
Crying TreeMessage #2287 - 05/07/10 03:27 PMUnions are certainly bankrupting California in state government. I don't think they teach that stuff in college. Californians was doing just fine before unions. I like unions but first you must know what they are before letting a bunch of educated teachers who manage class rooms join them. I think they are for workers, not managers. Out screaming you can't lay us off, were in the union. What the 
Stay PutMessage #2288 - 05/07/10 03:28 PMActually Ardman, there is plenty that people can do, and I and others (referred to as Doom & Gloom) have been telling people how to prepare for the coming Depression. If you people did not want to listen, or even take some simple prudent actions to prepare for any kind of emergency (as were repeatedly explained in great detail), then YES, you and everyone else like you have a lot to worry about in the coming years. What can you do now? Stock your house like you are preparing for a natural disaster that will have a prolonged effect on your family. It's probably too late to do anything to prepare your family for "Years", but at least you can get some preparations done.
ComoKateMessage #2289 - 05/07/10 03:34 PM...and make friends with your local dental hygienist because we are a wickedly versatile bunch...
Crying TreeMessage #2290 - 05/07/10 03:42 PMWell those new dental machines are fantastic. A camera in your mouth, the dentist does a drawing and pushes a button and you have a cap in 2 hours. 45 minutes of it is waiting time. Technology is moving ahead in that field.
Stay PutMessage #2291 - 05/07/10 03:46 PMCrying Tree, that's not fair. Don't you know that you have to have an IQ of 132 on the Bell Curve... er excuse me, "Belle Curve", to even work for a dentist?
ComoKateMessage #2292 - 05/07/10 03:48 PMI know it's frustrating to want what you cannot have... 
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:16:46 GMT -5
JnapMessage #2293 - 05/07/10 04:18 PMHere we go again, the end of ·worlders· are once more predicting calamity. The market is up approximately 4000 points since last March but a drop of ten percent is proof that it was all an illusion. Sorry, but the world is not ending and it is not necessary to dig a hole in your yard to hide in, stockpile food and otherwise plan for life as a caveman. Yes I know that the debt of the European countries known as the ·PIIGS· is causing great concern but so what? The US went through the same thing last year and figured out a way to stabilize the financial markets and Europe will do the same thing. Once countries adapted the Euro, as a common currency, they essentially linked their economies together. It is no longer possible for them to ignore the problems of Greece any more than America can ignore the problems of Alabama, Louisiana, or California. This may be a new reality for European countries but the fact is they will have no choice but deal with it. On the plus side it beats going to war which is the way Europe dealt with previous problems. Have some faith folks and if you can·t handle the volatility of the market maybe you shouldn·t be invested in stocks or bonds to begin with. Also on the plus side more and more evidence is suggesting that the US economy is recovering so let·s be happy with that and realize that compared to last year we have ample reason to be optimistic. If you have the courage this might be a good time to buy.
Crying TreeMessage #2294 - 05/07/10 04:33 PMDoes real life count? The guy two houses down is getting kicked out due to non pay. The guy next door still no job and across the street too. Maybe with unemployment benefits running out the unemployed become nobody. They don't count in the numbers? Illegal undocumented immigrants count.
ŽMessage #2295 - 05/07/10 04:34 PM Stay Put, I don't see where you have a case against ComoKate anyway. Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right and Kate is unqualified to make a medical diagnosis. Take a look at the company you're in on this board. Most seem to be intelligent or above average intelligence. Do you really believe that any would take medical advice from a market talk board anyway? Do you think you're protecting us from Kate? It's certainly not worth keeping a grudge going over it. 
Crying TreeMessage #2296 - 05/07/10 04:40 PMI took some advice from this market talk board and did really good. I will love the Bear always. The Bull is good but fortunes are made big time from Bear to Bull.
decoy409Message #2297 - 05/07/10 04:43 PMHave some faith folks and if you can·t handle the volatility of the market maybe you shouldn·t be invested in stocks or bonds to begin with. Also on the plus side more and more evidence is suggesting that the US economy is recovering so let·s be happy with that and realize that compared to last year we have ample reason to be optimistic. If you have the courage this might be a good time to buy. Just who in the heck do you work for? RECOVERING! Now I see why some call Cramer out. To spread rumors of falsehoods is a insult to all of us that do know the current conditions and they are far from your cry in the dark. YOUR STATES ARE ABOUT TO BELLY AND ALL THAT WISH TO PRONOUNCE THIS MISLEADING INFORMATION AS TO EVERYTHING IS JUST FINE,well it is not fine. And soon people those that continue to preach these falsehoods as they do will shine like a diamond in the rough. What I have preached,what I have followed,what I have shared ALL HAS LEGS,AND ALL HAS BEEN PLAYING OUT JUST AS I SAID!
Dan from MV CAMessage #2298 - 05/07/10 04:54 PMadfadfad
ComoKateMessage #2299 - 05/07/10 05:03 PMZ, he's just obsessed with me...we just have to learn to live with it.
outaheresoonMessage #2300 - 05/07/10 05:23 PMComo: You're a smart, good-looking, professional...who wouldn't be obsessed with you?
great depression1Message #2301 - 05/07/10 05:28 PMThe market is up approximately 4000 points since last March but a drop of ten percent is proof that it was all an illusion The market is up built on bernake dumping 16 trillion plus into the dow markets since march 09........a market built on plastic dollars is a meltdown waiting to happen.To bad main street americans will have to suffer for the acts of a few banksters and politicians.
great depression1Message #2302 - 05/07/10 05:29 PM
Como:
You're a smart, good-looking, professional...who wouldn't be obsessed with you? PICS wheres the pics...........must have proof in this market!
Stay PutMessage #2303 - 05/07/10 05:32 PMDo you think you're protecting us from Kate? It's certainly not worth keeping a grudge going over it. Actually, if you bothered to scroll up far enough, you'll see that it was Como who felt it necessary to rehash "her" grudge. I came on here saying nothing about her. I could care less about her. Obviously it is her with the hang up.
ComoKateMessage #2304 - 05/07/10 05:45 PM I could care less about her I'm not buying it. 
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:17:39 GMT -5
great depression1Message #2305 - 05/07/10 06:02 PMkate I think you got a lil green ink on your face, like the rest of us or is it eye shadow.
ComoKateMessage #2306 - 05/07/10 06:06 PMkate I think you got a lil green ink on your face, like the rest of us or is it eye shadow ?
Crying TreeMessage #2307 - 05/07/10 10:21 PMComoKate - Don't get any green on those teeth. If those guys are giving you a hard time jab them with those things in the mouth. Those dental clean your teeth people are usually very pretty mouth terrorist. I try to smile when wanting to run from them.
djrickMessage #2308 - 05/07/10 11:16 PMCalifornia............... [ www.sco.ca.gov/Press-Releases/2010/05-10summary.pdf] California Controller's May Summary State Controller John Chiang today released his monthly report covering California·s cash balance, receipts and disbursements in April. The month·s receipts dropped below the Governor·s 2010-11 budget estimates by $3.6 billion, or 26.4 percent. Through March, the States' (sic) revenues were tracking more than $2.3 billion ahead of projections. ·Four months of positive receipts were erased in the last 10 days of April,· said Chiang. ·Because a surge in revenues has not come, the Governor and Legislature need to move quickly and forge the consensus needed for a balanced budget. Any delay will only limit their options and expose already struggling Californians to greater harm.·
BGA4444Message #2309 - 05/08/10 04:46 PMI guess things turned a little "sour" in april in California. Same thing here in Georgia really awfull month!
Stay PutMessage #2310 - 05/08/10 04:56 PMLooking at the EU, IMF, Wall Street, FED, Individual state budgets, total number of unemployed in the entire country, etc., etc., etc., harkens back that game I played as a child. Prior to actually learning the game, my brothers and I use to stack these little ivory pieces up on end, in really elaborate designs, and then by knocking over just one piece, the whole stack would collapse. Dominoes.
BGA4444Message #2311 - 05/10/10 02:52 PMApril was a terrible month. The first ten days of May are in the red as well. I just keep getting price increase letters. It is simply amazing to me as we make less and less margin per job our suppliers justify price increases on falling sales. Simple economics will tell you raise prices and sales fall. I guess in big business if you can make and get more gross profit dollars and sell less then you have hit a homerun. I am still hearing that awful suction sound of money being sucked out of the middle class. This current situation will hit the diminishing returns point at some time. Those in big business better start hiring soon or proceed at their own peril.
djrickMessage #2312 - 05/10/10 03:09 PMMeanwhile, back at the ranch: Fresh off Freddie Mac asking the US Treasury for $10.6bn to offset losses on bad loans, Fannie Mae entered its own plea for a $8.4bn helping of financial aid. Moreover, the home-loan company · which on Monday reported a net loss of $13.1bn for the first quarter of 2010 · warned in its 1o-Q filing with the SEC that there is ·significant uncertainty as to our long-term financial sustainability·[ ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/05/10/225896/please-sirs-fannie-mae-wants-some-more/] ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/05/10/2258...
BGA4444Message #2313 - 05/12/10 12:01 PMDuh there is significant uncertainty of America's long-term financial stability. When all forms of government begin to tax more at local,state, and federal level to continue this charade GDP will absolutely fall through the floor. At that point unemployment will become thirty or forty % and it will be game over time for the already shrinking middle class. I can not believe inflation is not already double digit. How is it being held down? No money is making it to main st.. If it ever starts to make it to main st. inflation will go nuts. My girlfriend says she is thinking about selling some of her gold. I told her no way it is like money in the bank drawing a guaranteed 10-20% interest.
BGA4444Message #2314 - 05/12/10 12:01 PMDuh there is significant uncertainty of America's long-term financial stability. When all forms of government begin to tax more at local,state, and federal level to continue this charade GDP will absolutely fall through the floor. At that point unemployment will become thirty or forty % and it will be game over time for the already shrinking middle class. I can not believe inflation is not already double digit. How is it being held down? No money is making it to main st.. If it ever starts to make it to main st. inflation will go nuts. My girlfriend says she is thinking about selling some of her gold. I told her no way it is like money in the bank drawing a guaranteed 10-20% interest.
BGA4444Message #2315 - 05/13/10 12:30 PMMore great news. In Cobb county, a affluent county in north Atlanta, is about to cut 700 teachers by not renewing their contracts. Also many regular employees of the school system are being laid off as well. Looks like the green shoots just keep coming!
djrickMessage #2316 - 05/14/10 01:51 AMIn Job Market Shift, Some Workers Are Left Behind Millions of workers who have already been unemployed for months, if not years, will most likely remain that way even as the overall job market continues to improve, economists say. The occupations they worked in, and the skills they currently possess, are never coming back in style. And the demand for new types of skills moves a lot more quickly than workers · especially older and less mobile workers · are able to retrain and gain those skills. [ www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/business/economy/13obsolete.html] article from Catherine Rampell at the NY Times
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:18:31 GMT -5
kman49Message #2317 - 05/14/10 02:04 AMMan, would I love to have older underemployed workers to expand my business. If your an entrepreneur. These are the people you want! Send them my way! Hungry, smart ,experienced.....I can't loose!
Crying TreeMessage #2318 - 05/14/10 03:06 AMYour right kman49. Show up on time & do what their told for less. The undocumented illegal immigrant got my job. Are we going to treat North Korean's & Iranians the same as Hispanics? Just let them in with no papers or be prejudice to hispanics and only let them sneak across the our borders. Big blow up with states running out of money. I can count my money & they can't count theirs because they say they have degrees in doing less.
djrickMessage #2319 - 05/14/10 09:41 AM[ www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/business/economy/13obsolete.html] article from Catherine Rampell at the NY Times from the The New Poor article above: "Pruning relatively less-efficient employees like clerks and travel agents, whose work can be done more cheaply by computers or workers abroad, makes American businesses more efficient."
This fraud of a statement makes me sick. At most of my jobs it was the seemingly 'less-efficient' employees who did most of the work. And this is from tech to industrial to government jobs. Now I'm not going to say you cannot find cheaper wage workers elsewhere... but this attitude pisses me off. my whole view of work in America is ANYBODY can be replaced. everybody from Obama, Dimon, Geithner and Blankfein to that sweeper in McDonalds. It's this attitude that these idiots believed NAFTA, CAFTA and the WTO would bring untold wealth to the world... instead we have slave wages and more disparity and a highly fragile economic system, all at the expense of a FIRE class that cannot, just will not, give up there hookers and coke and Connecticut 5 million dollar homes. We deserve a hard hard depression to teach some humility.
BGA4444Message #2320 - 05/14/10 02:46 PMDJ, I agree, but the only people who actually suffer is the middle class. As I read more and more this thread is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Crying TreeMessage #2321 - 05/14/10 02:59 PMPruning? Less efficient employees like CEO's need pruning more than clerks & travel agents. Here comes the states who cannot stay on budget and spend, spend , spend. Were broke and stupid not smart like clerks and travel agents.
BGA4444Message #2322 - 05/14/10 05:45 PM What the heck, gold going up and the market going down. The cosmic equilibrium has been restored! Frank, common give us something to be positive about!
djrickMessage #2323 - 05/16/10 09:51 PMAt least your government is focusing on the big issues. Here's the Senate Bill that would make it illegal for you to grow your own food <snark off> - [ www.theworldsprophecy.com/senate-bill-s510-makes-it-illegal-to-grow-share-trade-or-sell-homegrown-food/] www.theworldsprophecy.com/senate-bill-s5... Monsanto (and many other chemical companies) are the biggest bullies on the planet ... farmers fear their legal teams (and the legal teams have come to run the companies) ... they drag farmers into court regularly and even though the farmers have a winning case they cannot fight the resources of the corporation ... Bill Moyers shed his PBS flash light on these companies over the past couple of years ... just another example that we live in a corporate-tocracy and not a country with equal access ...
kman49Message #2324 - 05/17/10 01:20 AMMonsanto, should be a crime against humanity.
BGA4444Message #2325 - 05/18/10 10:48 AMMany here say the worst recession in the history of the world is drawing to a end. That things are getting better. Suddenly we find ourselves with 48 out of fifty states bankrupt. With a federal government, that we all know is totally corrupt, also bankrupt. With a trade deficit spiraling out of control, causing the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind. With unemployment still rising even though we are adding jobs. With "business socialism" allowing special interest companies, who should be out of business, to be bailed out. To allow these same bad companies to borrow money from us, the American taxpayers at 0%, then our government borrows it back from them at 4-5% to service our thirteen trillion dollar debt. To allow a country, China with no human rights, to steal our jobs and sell us crap that will kill our children over time, to basically own us. To allow a company BP that is one of the richest on the planet to rape our gulf coast, to use poor business practices which allowed for the worst disaster in the history of the USA to sit before congress and point fingers at each other like third graders. You bastards, 11 men died on that platform because of you money grubbing jerks. There should be a criminal investigation and put all three of you murderers in jail. Hundreds of million of animals are dying because money made you fail to practice safe sex with our planet shame on you and all you stand for. Shame on our government for allowing big business to rape us. This recession is over? Heck no it just getting started.
BGA4444Message #2326 - 05/19/10 10:32 AMEveryone worldwide is scared to death. The big money is pulling out of the market and not running but sprinting to treasuries. All I can suggest to us all is get as much of our money into cash and guaranteed funds ASAP it looks like this new slide could test the 2009 lows. This is absolutely amazing. The big drop was evidently a "leading" indicator as to what was about to happen. I am very afraid this could get very bumpy very quickly. Many of us have made back a lot of our money do not be afraid to pullout now. You can always get back in when things calm down. This is going to get really ugly. There is no putting lipstick on this pig!
rjslrsMessage #2327 - 05/19/10 11:04 AMThe weasel from Blue Cross came in for his yearly song and dance routine.......I knew it would be bad. Our cost is going up 19% and we don't even have the option of keeping the same plan, so it is 19% for lesser coverage. Hard to put a number on the increase + reduced coverage, but I'm thinking about an actual 30% increase in reality. One of the reasons given is that they are frontloading increases that they are afraid won't be an option once Obama's healthcare kicks in. There won't be any raise this year either...........sound depression economics.
reverendbarbMessage #2328 - 05/19/10 12:33 PMYes, I keep getting notices from all the utilities that prices are going up - water/sewer, phone, electric, cable - as well as property taxes. And the grocery store prices are outrageous, but of course, they aren't included when the gov't calculates the inflation rate
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:19:23 GMT -5
ASKMessage #2329 - 05/19/10 12:55 PMMy husband's company has made it mandatory for 80% of the company to take two fulough days a month. A few people were also laid off. Sales are down. 
reverendbarbMessage #2330 - 05/19/10 12:59 PMSorry to hear that ASK. But I'm glad hubby wasn't one of the employees who were laid off.
Crying TreeMessage #2331 - 05/19/10 01:00 PMThe political save the rich politicians are starting to lose their jobs. Let the middle class eat cake, they don't need no stinking jobs. Welfare for all and more cash for the rich attitude is going in the trash can. We remember who did what-were not as stupid as they think we are.
reverendbarbMessage #2332 - 05/19/10 01:04 PMLet the middle class eat cake Cake??!! Cake would be NICE - it's really more like this: Let the middle class eat fish heads and die.
ASKMessage #2333 - 05/19/10 01:10 PMThanks reverendbarb, I was glad he wasn't laid off too. We are o.k. because we live well below our means but this causes financial hardships for many of my husbands coworkers. I work very part time and considering what I earn it is almost volunteering. If things were to get bad I could always dust off my resume and try to find a real job.
BGA4444Message #2334 - 05/19/10 01:19 PMAsk, I am here in Atlanta and sales just will not turn around. Where are you guys?
ASKMessage #2335 - 05/19/10 01:22 PMWe live in the Denver Metro area.
Crying TreeMessage #2336 - 05/19/10 01:26 PMI'm in Oregon. Lots are collecting welfare and working under the table. No one wants to own anything like a house. You pay taxes forever. The less you own the less taxes you pay. The new rebels. I just passing through this life, sort of like a train ride. Just looking out the window- My Oh My, how times have changed.
BGA4444Message #2337 - 05/20/10 02:50 PMYou are about to see some programmed trading kick in that is going to make the market plummet.
Crying TreeMessage #2338 - 05/20/10 02:58 PMYou won't need a glitch. North Korea is looking for a fight. The President of the United States in in a foreign country bad mouthing a state of the union. Here comes trouble.
BGA4444Message #2339 - 05/21/10 11:24 AMThe perfect storm is on us. Debt worldwide is the problem. As the economies of the world struggle to keep everything afloat bond ratings are beginning to fall causing higher interest rates. This situation is unsustainable and a vicious circle. As the rates go up and payments are made countries GDP drop causing more inability to pay and more higher rates. Default with a structured repayment plan on part of the principle is the only way out. For the countries that print their own money like the USA print money, pay down debt, and suffer through high inflation for a few years. The positive affect on housing will be great. Home values will go up, as will wages, making the payments much easier to be made. There is no simple solution but allowing China to own us is the worst mistake we will ever make. Ultimately they will be like locust eating every resource on earth with a insatiable voracious appetite that is unsustainable for the world's resources. The perfect storm is upon us we all better batten down the hatches.
neohguyMessage #2340 - 05/21/10 11:44 AMCleveland is currently experiencing a decent surge in steel making and related industries. There were a lot of foreclosures in Cuyahoga county last month but a good chunk of it is blighted houses that will be demolished. Steel is cautiously optimistic but wary. High paying road repair jobs (stimulus money) are in full swing so money is being spent on everything from restaurants to construction equipment. Public employees (also high paying) are rightfully nervous as layoffs begin. Decent paying jobs for young people are in short supply. Employers are hiring older experienced because they are uncertain about the future and don't want to invest in training. We have a long way to go yet.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:20:16 GMT -5
time2shareMessage #2341 - 05/24/10 10:27 PM Unfortunately it it not that Capitalism is bad ..It is the lies, schemas and deceptions involved in gaining the upper hand that plaques the people pretending to call it capitalism. Make no mistake this is out right stealing.....This is a concerted effort by many, hell bent and based on a getting ahead regardless of the peoples faith in other people. The faith of markets and make believe instruments of profit all contribute to this end......THAT'S WHY NOBODY "WANTS TO PLAY ANYMORE" The markets are slanted in favor of the insiders and scammers......There is nothing wrong with making so-called "easy money" brains over braun...that's cool..but NOT AT THE LOSS of a bet or trick......a short call or a miss reported number..This market should be geared on a WIN ..WIN out come not your los is my gain or I bet your good investment will fail and help pull against you......We are hell bent on distruction and now we are reaping the rewards......along with our own demise. Look for The tricks again to get you back into the markets "Technical low, Capitulation, X% Correction, 52 week moving average, Close to the lows, buy defensive stock now, GET COMPLETLY OUT NOW Before it is too late for you and you lose it all!
Crying TreeMessage #2342 - 05/25/10 12:16 AMtime2share - It is not just the stock market. Lying is way to get the world hear what they want to hear when they steal your valuables or life. It is everywhere. Mothers lie about their children when their failing and tell others how great they are doing. Business do the same. Just a short term loan- never gets paid. The stock market has good & bad but is not responsible for all things.
time2shareMessage #2343 - 05/25/10 03:36 AMThat is just the problem weeping tree.....just like you accept it, we are all taught to accept it as well and we pass it forward. Ethics and keeping true to your word are lost from the world and we will pay for that. The Stock market is exactly a echo of our sanity....just Look at the world today..with Chinas consent N.Korea sunk a S. Korean cruiser...What will happen? close to Nothing?....Sanctions......? or WWIII...? The Euro has no solid backing and most countries are insolvent. Our own stock market and financial institutions which many are public companies are on the brink of collapse......These distractions are intended to keep you guessing and off balance...BP a public stock is polluting our beaches with non compliance rigs registered in Antilles....search your feelings WT the dark side is calling you...!
djrickMessage #2344 - 05/25/10 04:23 AMUnemployment provides a very meager safety net. You can't live on unemployment. You can subsist for awhile with help from savings, family, friends, and/or other social services and charities. and Congress fiddles........ Many Democrats also are scrutinizing emergency spending on the economy. Dahlkemper, facing a well-funded Republican car dealer in the blue-collar district she seized from the GOP in 2008, said businesses back home complain that they want to start hiring but are getting few applicants because Congress has repeatedly extended unemployment benefits. "Now, whether that's true or not, I'm still trying to decipher," she said. "But I think it's something we really need to look at." That's a nice message for a Democrat. "Some say" that unemployment benefits make people too lazy to want to go back to work. (Note: if you are unemployed and [ dahlkemper.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75&Itemid=3] live in Rep. Dahlkemper's district and are unemployed, maybe you can [ dahlkemper.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=8] call her and get her to refer you to all those employers out there who really want to hire you.) Erie County in Dahlkemper's PA district has one of the highest Unemployment rates at 10.6% - see [ www.bls.gov/ro3/palaus.htm] here and [ www.bls.gov/ro3/erie.pdf] this pdf
djrickMessage #2345 - 05/25/10 04:25 AMBut plenty of money for war............ [ www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/24/obamas-war-supplemental-r_n_587325.html] Obama's War Supplemental: Recent Reports Strengthen The Case Against It This added budget would bring total Department of Defense spending on the Afghan war this fiscal year to $99 billion -- eclipsing the $61 billion for Iraq. WTF !
Crying TreeMessage #2346 - 05/25/10 05:31 AMWeeping Tree? They took God out of the schools & honesty out of the home. But God is still on the money. Too much BS on TV that kids think is real. They grow up believing that crap. Unemployment is still 16% here. I think the welfare rate is higher than the unemployment rate.
BGA4444Message #2347 - 05/26/10 12:59 AMDJ, I agree! How do you justify the waste of money and life. When the home front is in total disarray? I say end the wars now. Do they really think the terrorist are hanging around in Iraq and Afghanistan- what a joke good young men dying for nothing! I hope Bush and OBama sleep good at night. The wars have made America less safe everywhere else in the world.
Crying TreeMessage #2348 - 05/26/10 01:33 AMThe government needs to spend money cleaning up our own environment. We have not had a good leader in decades. One getting oral sex in the White House which is disrespectful to the citizens who put him there, one starting a war because he did not like who was leading another country. Now, a young man who is star struck like he is a movie star. Starts everything and finishes nothing. A fast talking lawyer. Every war between others we must stick our nose in everyone else's business which has cost us plenty in many ways.
BGA4444Message #2349 - 05/26/10 01:48 AMCrying,I agree totally remember the Vietnam war those boys died for nothing it just makes me sick. We can not force our will on peoples that do not want our way of life. We say we want to spread democracy and freedom yet we only pick on small countries that can not defend themselves against us. Yet we are in bed with China and they truly hate our guts. It is all bull.
Crying TreeMessage #2350 - 05/26/10 02:13 AMBGA4444 - I don't think China hates our guts. We were Allies in World War 2 and defended their country against Japan's desires to expand there. One of our Generals got too close to their borders during the Korea conflict and they defended what they thought was aggression to them. It was a misunderstanding. HO Chi Minn is the Hero of Vietnam. I was there too. Our soliders weren't sure what they were fighting for but they were as brave as they come. America needs a lot of work and the money is desperately needed here. I have been all this country mostly to schools. The midwest and don't eat fish from this river signs. Southern California is polluted to the max. New York dumping all that garbage and sewage into the sea. Now the greatest oil spill in the history of the world in the deep south. On and On. A lot of money left for your kids and they will still live a top a trash heap in smog.
djrickMessage #2351 - 05/26/10 03:36 AM For our next StimPak, let's try a trickle up. We've had enough trickle down and that doesn't seem to be doing the trick. Obama: Try trickle up. You might be surprised.
BGA4444Message #2352 - 05/26/10 09:47 AMCrying, you say China "likes" us. Then how do you explain all the lead paint in children's toys. Poison in animal feed. And sheetrock filled with carcinogens. These things are what we know about. Chinese attacks on cyberspace occur every day. Thank God they are our friends. It would certainly be a bad day if they were really trying to hurt us!
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:21:08 GMT -5
reverendbarbMessage #2353 - 05/26/10 12:42 PMAnd don't forget the melamine in the baby formula - they want to get at us when we're young!
AEKaraMessage #2354 - 05/26/10 12:57 PMWell I found out Monday we are laying off 2,000 people. I work for a very large defense contractor. if people still don't get the fact that we are heading into a depression that makes the one of the 1930s seem like a party I don't know what will. I also heard today more people get their paychecks from some government entity than the private sector. Sorry this was on the radio and I can't get confirmation on it but if true we are DONE.
reverendbarbMessage #2355 - 05/26/10 01:08 PMOh WOW! Very sorry to hear that AEKara! You're not one of the people about to be laid off though - right?! I also work for a defense contractor. I'm hearing the rumors around town of VERY large cuts in defense funding coming soon, and the support contractors are always the first to go out the door.
AEKaraMessage #2356 - 05/26/10 01:13 PMOh WOW! Very sorry to hear that AEKara! You're not one of the people about to be laid off though - right?! not that I know of reveren. its been going on all this week. A couple of people I have worked with for a long time got laid off so far which was a shock its not just the defense spending getting cut but the government taking a lot of the work in house. Its laughable because they are hiring alot of our employees, paying them even more money. Does not make sence.
reverendbarbMessage #2357 - 05/26/10 01:16 PMYes, that is happening a LOT where I work also - government hiring the defense contractors for more pay and MUCH better benefits. But it just can't continue.....can it??!!! 
AEKaraMessage #2358 - 05/26/10 01:25 PMYes, that is happening a LOT where I work also - government hiring the defense contractors for more pay and MUCH better benefits. But it just can't continue.....can it??!!! sure it can. I heard the Fed is getting new and improved currency printing presses to push the funny money out there even faster . I mean we all know how good government is in generating wealth and profits. I mean look at the Soviet model and how well they did.
BGA4444Message #2359 - 05/26/10 09:03 PMThe Market closes below 10,000, unemployment still up ticking towards 10%, governments only chance at lowering debt worldwide is to cut spending which will cut GDP between 3 and 8%. Nuclear armed rogue country on the verge of all out war. Now if you want to worry about a terrorist you really got one now! And he is not from the middle east. Worst oil accident in the history of the world in the gulf of Mexico. I must admit things have improved "so much" since the down turn. Bull! The world is in much worse shape my God what is below a depression we are going to have to rename this thing we are in the middle of. How about the Impalerpression because the better people talk really the worse it is getting!
kman49Message #2360 - 05/26/10 09:06 PMImpalerpression Impalercovery
djrickMessage #2361 - 05/26/10 10:07 PMDJ 2nd UPDATE: US House Democrats Scale Back Tax Package . (Updates with possible Thursday vote in fourth paragraph). By Martin Vaughan Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--House Democratic leaders have agreed to trim a tax-cut and jobless-benefits package in an attempt to revive the bill, which had stalled because Democrats were wary of its impact on the deficit. The revised bill will postpone scheduled cuts in Medicare payments to doctors for 19 months, instead of the 3 1/2 years included in a version of the bill introduced last week. Democratic leaders also trimmed the extension of unemployment benefits and Cobra health-insurance subsidies by one month, so that those programs would now be extended through the end of November 2010, according to a House Democratic aide. The House will not vote on the package Wednesday night. House leaders are aiming to get it on the floor Thursday, House aides said. They are hoping the changes will reassure Democratic lawmakers who were skittish about adding more to the national debt. The revised bill would add less than $100 billion to the deficit over 10 years, sources familiar with discussions said. That is down from a $134 billion net the Congressional Budget Office estimated the earlier version of the bill would cost. Democrats are also planning to add state highway funding to the legislation to help resolve a dispute over highway funding allocations. It wasn't immediately clear whether the changes adopted will be sufficient to win enough support to pass the Senate. "There are a lot of discussions, no decisions yet," said Jim Manley, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.).
BGA4444Message #2362 - 05/27/10 11:34 AMAmerica's fragile economic situation and it's fragile environmental situation appear to be mirroring each other. Wow, I mean really can it get much worse without a total breakdown in both. The government is trying now to come up with ways to pay for all the reckless spending and interest on the debt. The way they see it is to tax their way out. When they make huge cuts in spending and tax the masses GDP will fall through the floor. The economy doesn't stand a chance. Also, seeing how BP has handled the Gulf spill lets me know just what Godless,spineless, yellow bellied aholes run these large corporations. The business leaders and politicians of today would sell their own mothers to increase profits. So we can all imagine what they are doing to mother earth. Raping and pillaging her till there is no point of return. There are two things you jerks can not control or buyoff. God and mother nature- paybacks and Karma will level the playing field. I just can not wait to see what these two have in store for you sub human predators. I am afraid many innocent people will be in the way of what is heading right at you.
frank the impalerMessage #2363 - 05/27/10 11:38 AMBGA4444 "IMPALERPRESSION" ?...come on you don't really think we're gonna have a depression.........do you?
neohguyMessage #2364 - 05/27/10 11:40 AMMarket action will be interesting for the next couple of weeks imo. If the trend is up then we may have just completed an abc counter trend correction and might be starting the first wave up. If the trend is down then we may have just completed a fifth wave down and are due for a corrective abc up before resuming the downward trend.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:22:01 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2365 - 05/27/10 11:59 AMFrank, lol I wondered how long it would take you to catch that! Some of the others were Franpression and deftiession. But I decided on "Impalerpression". Do I think we are going to have a depression. I really hope not. I pray not. However, we are in unchartered waters with bone heads all over the world thinking they know what's best. I really do not think it will be a depression. I believe we are about to go into a period much worse. Did you read the story about lab created life. Let me warn you all if that DNA escapes into the environment lookout it could mutate and become something we do not want to see. We are on the abyss looking down. Man has always been our own worst enemy. Nothing has changed to make us better stewards of what we have been given. So that given a depression no I think it will be much worse. What I hope for is you to be right. We could name it "Impalercovery". I want you to keep believing the glass is half full and maybe it will become full again.
Mike C4wMessage #2366 - 05/27/10 01:56 PMDid you read the story about lab created life. Let me warn you all if that DNA escapes into the environment lookout it could mutate and become something we do not want to see. Are they Public...... might try to make a few $$$ on that.... 
Mike C4wMessage #2367 - 05/27/10 01:59 PMA recession is when your neighbor losses his job...... A depression is when you lose yours....
Crying TreeMessage #2368 - 05/27/10 02:07 PMIt might mutate into something that talks out of both sides of their mouth.
BGA4444Message #2369 - 05/27/10 03:12 PMNo Cryingtree that mutation has already occurred. We already have politicians and the CEO of BP.
BGA4444Message #2370 - 05/27/10 03:13 PMHey MikeC4w, you might want to short that one!
BGA4444Message #2371 - 05/28/10 11:56 AMMy question to BP. Why wasn't top kill tried shortly after the rig collapsed? This is BP's last chance if this doesn't work get the hell out of the way and let at your expense someone else try to solve this thing. I am sure with all the drilling that goes on around the world another company can come in here and solve this problem. The CEO said he was going to protect the dividend. Hey pal you better get your butt with all your dividend money down to the gulf coast and start paying amounts that will help these people. The people that your spill has cost their livelihoods. Also, the cleanup! You mean those people I see walking around the beaches in suits that I never see doing one thing! What clean up? Looks to me like BP might have about 5 to 10 million jobs in the gulf coast at twenty dollars a hour to "start" to clean up this mess. Protect your dividend you say. The fact that you are even are worried about your dividend lets me know what kind of a world rapist BP is. Dividend that should be the last thing on your mind you jerk!
Crying TreeMessage #2372 - 05/28/10 05:19 PMNot a problem. President Obama said he will take full responsibility and has been on it since the beginning. I don't think he has a clue what he is talking about. Done nothing and shows up today. I hope the blow out is fixed but the major oil volume spill impact has yet to hit the shore line. The stuff will drift all over the ocean and hit some unlikely spot. Oil is a major time bomb of destruction.
AEKaraMessage #2373 - 05/28/10 06:20 PMIt might mutate into something that talks out of both sides of their mouth. OMG the perfect politician . Nah forget it they do that already very very well.
djrickMessage #2374 - 05/29/10 01:56 AMOur kids....debt slaves. So before Cortney·s junior year, N.Y.U. recommended that she apply for a private student loan on her own with Citibank. Over the course of the next two years, starting when she was still a teenager, she borrowed about $40,000 from Citibank without thinking much about how she would pay it back. How could her mother have let her run up that debt, and why didn·t she try to make her daughter transfer to, say, the best school in the much cheaper state university system in New York? ·All I could see was college, and a good college and how proud I was of her,· Cathryn said. ·All we needed to do was get this education and get the good job. This is the thing that eats away at me, the na·vet· on my part.· But Cortney resists the idea that this is a tale of bad parenting. ·To me, it would be an uncharitable reading,· she said. ·My mother has tried her best, and I don·t blame her for anything in this.· Today, however, Ms. Munna, a 26-year-old graduate of [ topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/new_york_university/index.html?inline=nyt-org] New York University, has nearly $100,000 in [ www.nytimes.com/info/student-loans/?inline=nyt-classifier] student loan debt from her four years in college, and affording the full monthly payments would be a struggle. [ www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/your-money/student-loans/29money.html?hp] Subprime Crisis of Student Debt," An important generational topic..., worth pondering some more.
Crying TreeMessage #2375 - 05/29/10 03:39 AMdjrick - I have seen young ladies like mentioned, only no degree and $100,000 in credit card dept. She has a degree and most others start out in dept. too. Time to go to work and let her know it won't happen over night to have it fully paid. Maybe she will get bonus and Bang, it is gone. I have seen that too. Good Luck & Good Investment. Smart Young lady will probably marry some rich guy anyway. She is at the perfect age.
djrickMessage #2376 - 05/29/10 01:17 PMWhat a tragedy that people worthy of going to college will be dissuaded by doing so on account of not being able to justify it's expense...
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:22:53 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #2377 - 05/29/10 02:10 PMDecisions - The sum total of your daily decisions is your intelligence. Graduation from college or trade schools is the beginning of your career. Nothing is free. Work hard and do what your told and success will follow. $100,000 today is not the same as $100,000 in 1970. You buy an education, car or house is a personal decision. No one put a gun to someone's head to make anyone buy these things. Is it worth it? Yes, if you know what to do with it. Proving yourself in the work world and the school world are two different things.
BGA4444Message #2378 - 05/29/10 03:29 PMDJ, college can be achieved by anyone. In the mid 80's I had four small children, worked two jobs and went to college paying every dime of tuition and books myself. It can be done and paid for as you go. I also had a 3.0 GPA. My wife at the time had no job but she went too. She had a little more time to study than I did. She had a 4.0 GPA. Many times we would look at each other and just talk about how do we make this happen. It really took some creative budgeting. Occasionally one of us would miss a quarter. I believe they changed it to semester somewhere in there. Where there is a will there is a way! My youngest son Taylor, born in 1990, our fifth has a middle name of Byron. I picked that name from studying in a advanced English poets class I was taking at the time. Taylor's middle name is from Lord Byron one of my favorites. You guys just never knew all this about this Georgia boy!
Crying TreeMessage #2379 - 05/29/10 03:45 PMBGA4444 - I thought you were just some peach on Peachtree Street. I did attend some schools in Atlanta. Nice Place. I arrive and it was 75 degrees. Next morning on the way to school it was 17 degrees and blowing wind. This was in December.
BGA4444Message #2380 - 05/29/10 04:25 PMCrying, I had the pleasure of attending a sleepy little college name of kennesaw State. I am proud to say is now a university and is fast becoming a mega university. Go Owls!
djrickMessage #2381 - 05/30/10 03:22 AM"Why should a young man/woman spend four years in a college business program, for example, to qualify as a shift manager at a video rental store? That's what we're seeing now and it doesn't make sense to me. I submit to you, and everyone else within earshot, when this economy collapses--and it will--what's going to be in demand are skills. It's going to take skills in things like carpentry, welding, machining, wrench-turning, farming, etc., to bring this country back. Nothing else will make the grade. The simple fact is this: right now this country is damned short on people with skills and there is nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty. Of course, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but folks with political science, religion, business degrees just ain't gonna make it. Finally, even if you have an engineering degree you're not going to make it if you can't run the machines. They'll have to be real engineers, not damned paper pushers."
AEKaraMessage #2382 - 05/30/10 11:40 AMOf course, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but folks with political science, religion, business degrees just ain't gonna make it. Finally, even if you have an engineering degree you're not going to make it if you can't run the machines. They'll have to be real engineers, not damned paper pushers." Can't agree with you more. We have become a disposable society, throwing away good washing machines, fridges, cars etc because the parts and labor are more expensive than just buy a new one...on credit naturally. This is what is killing us, the lake of very good trade schools and good skills. But how can you have this when our money is funny and our manual labor is thought as good enough only for illegal Mexicans.
djrickMessage #2383 - 05/30/10 01:43 PMThe most dangerous engineer is one who has no field experience with the things they are designing. BP anyone?
Crying TreeMessage #2384 - 05/30/10 03:03 PMI don't think college degrees make the person. Even with the degree business doesn't put you a head of others unless your in the top 10 % of your class. My co - worker put his daughter through college. He went to her graduation and she did not graduate. Another year went by that he paid for and she did graduate and got a job at Target. The she said she was going to kill herself because she did not make enough money. So he sent her $400 a month to help. She went out and bought a horse with the money. That cost money to maintain. College degrees get kids more informed but they do not guarantee success without effort and hard work.
rjslrsMessage #2385 - 05/30/10 08:40 PMThe most dangerous engineer is one who has no field experience with the things they are designing. BP anyone?
I used to work for a major company that had a plant (tool and die) located close to a university town, so it was common for our plant to be a "tour site" for the university engineering depts. On one such occasion an instructor made the statement: "I never realized it was so difficult to build what we design" A little education is a dangerous thing.........so is a lot. Too many people are educated past their intelligence level.
djrickMessage #2386 - 05/30/10 09:34 PMJohn Deere is using computer-based simulation to test their tractor designs. This is not a good idea. Andrew Wilgoos, who designed the famous Pratt and Whitney engines was a mechanic first. He always said that a design should be tested to destruction, then re-designed to correct the fault. Rinse and repeat until you get it right.
BGA4444Message #2387 - 06/02/10 01:50 PMHappy June MT from Atlanta. Sales were actually pretty good at our new location in Roswell, Ga. about 20 miles north of Atlanta. I have no previous sales to compare this location against. However,mixed reviews, our other location has had two months of double digit declines vs. 2009. Salesman are coming in all the time saying how bad april and may have been. I saw earlier in Duffminster's post Georgia is number five on the foreclosure and underwater list. That dubious distinction explains a lot to me. Georgia is just mired in the mud. Our economy is just stuck it really needs a boost. The million dollar question from where?
Crying TreeMessage #2388 - 06/02/10 01:56 PMBGA4444 - You will be O.K. when they start rebuilding the infrastructure as promised. It is supposed to start on the 12th of Never. John Kennedy put the social security in the general fund and now, today, it is full of I.O.U.'s. No more kids for president. Most don't like the old who have experience in life but your better off with them.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:23:46 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2389 - 06/03/10 01:22 PMADP says we added a whopping 55,000 jobs in May. Wahoooo I can feel the job love. At this rate unemployment will double by this time next year. Does anybody on MT know how many jobs have to be added each month just to break even? This number is because of population growth and immigrants. It seems like I have heard between 150,000 and 200,000. Hey at least the market is "gaining"! Looks like Impalerpression is right on target!
BGA4444Message #2390 - 06/03/10 01:27 PMGreat news BP's fine is going to be 4300.00 a barrel. At that rate you would think they would find a cure quickly for this thing. Hell I bet AIG insured them for $20,000 a month with a 100 billion in coverage maybe this thing can finally be the AIG killer. If not the American public holds the bag again!
Crying TreeMessage #2391 - 06/03/10 02:06 PMAre we getting paid in euros? Sorry, I just don't trust anything now days. Here are your I.O.U.'s. Special BP money just for you.
Crying TreeMessage #2392 - 06/03/10 02:12 PMBGA4444 - I would feel much better getting paid in silver or gold. Even gallons of gas ration stamps would be good. Maybe the euro's will go belly up with so many coming. Here is your money, Oh by the way, euros are worthless now. We over printed them to pay you. Just another stumbling block.
FetonaMessage #2393 - 06/04/10 02:03 AM Key Indicators of a New Depression
By Neeraj Chaudhary
With the mainstream media focusing on the country's leveling unemployment rate, improving retail sales, and nascent housing recovery, one might think that the US government has successfully navigated the economy through recession and growth has returned. But I will argue that a look under the proverbial hood reveals a very different picture. I believe the data shows that the US economy is badly damaged, and a modern-day depression has begun. In fact, just as World War I was originally called The Great War (and was retroactively renamed after World War II), Peter Schiff has said that one day the world will refer to the 1929-41 era as Great Depression I, and the current period as Great Depression II.
For starters, look at unemployment. During Great Depression I, unemployment broke 25%. If government statistics are taken at face value, the current unemployment rate is 9.9%, but a closer look reveals that the broadest measure of unemployment is currently at 20% - and rising. So, today's numbers are in the same ballpark as the '30s even though the federal government is using unprecedented measures to keep the economy afloat. Remember, in Great Depression I, FDR never ran a deficit nearly as large as President Obama's. Moreover, the Federal Reserve of the 1930s still had a gold standard with which to contend, while today's Fed has increased the monetary base with impunity. Yet even with all that intervention, unemployment figures still indicate that we have entered depression territory.
What is demoralizing to an unemployed person is not simply being let go, it is being unable to find a new job for an extended period of time. And this is where Great Depression II really rears its ugly head. According to the US federal government's own data, the median duration of unemployment is now over five months - and rising. This is the highest it's been since the BLS started compiling this statistic in 1965. As workers start to go this long without jobs, they eat into their savings. Eventually - and especially in a country with a savings rate as low as ours and debt as high as ours - they run out of cushion and hit the street. Formerly middle-class people have to make decisions never thought possible: do I eat in a shelter or go hungry in my home?
It's no surprise, then, that about 40 million people - or one out of every eight Americans - are receiving food stamps in Great Depression II. During the height of Great Depression I, the rate was just one out of thirty-five Americans. Even with the stimulus programs, Great Depression II is actually worse on this measure than Great Depression I - and the USDA estimates that the program could grow by another 50%. Soon, out of ten people you know, one may depend on federal assistance for daily survival.
Despite tax credits that have created a rush of purchases this spring, housing is in just as bad shape. During Great Depression I, home prices dropped some 15% from their pre-depression peak (achieved in 1925). In Great Depression II, housing is down at least 30% from the pre-depression peak (achieved in 2005), with some markets down more than 50%.
So, many of the people expected to keep making mortgage payments as they eat tuna fish to stay alive will be paying double their home's resale value. This is a tremendous incentive to walk away, with disastrous consequences for the country's social fabric in these trying times. Empty homes breed crime and vandalism, encouraging more to flee in a negative feedback loop. Moreover, the many 'walkaways' may create a class of Americans with ruined credit - right when many employers have started checking credit scores before hiring.
Even more worrisome, the present drop in home prices is against a backdrop of price inflation. In Great Depression I, our grandparents may have lost value in their home, but everyday goods (milk, diapers, automobiles, etc.) got cheaper at the same time. That made their savings 'cushion' deeper when they needed it most. Today, as home equity (now our main store o
BGA4444Message #2394 - 06/04/10 01:38 PMFetona, Good morning and a great post. I agree with what the article is saying. What a truly terrible time this is. The crooks on Wall st. would like to have us believe that things are great. But the problem is middle income America. Shrinking wages and higher cost are eventually going to kill the economy. Not to mention the long term unemployed are really just becoming jobless zombies with the deer in the headlights look! Tell me Wall st. what do the long term unemployed do next? The unemployment number today is a joke. The gains basically all short term census workers.
PirateOfWarMessage #2395 - 06/04/10 02:01 PMUntil we quit sending factories and jobs to China this will not change. C'mon Wall St magicians....come up with a formula showing how profitable it is to keep manufacturing here.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2396 - 06/04/10 02:30 PMDoes anybody on MT know how many jobs have to be added each month just to break even? This number is because of population growth and immigrants. It seems like I have heard between 150,000 and 200,000 I believe it is around 125,000 per month. Impossible to overcome at our current rate. At some point we will go off that imaginary cliff that means it will be impossible to recover under current fiscal circumstances.
BGA4444Message #2397 - 06/05/10 08:59 AMWe are in the grips of a terrible depression. Worse than that. We are in a time that is very depressing. A foreign company allowed to rape our gulf coast and then nickel and dime the ones damaged by the rape. Shame on BP. Shame on the CEO, the board of directors, and finally shame on those of you who would hold their stock. You are all rapist of the planet. I wish all of you the same fate given millions of marine life, wild birds on the coast, and the eleven men who died. Because of your raping the gulf without practicing safe sex the world is now much worse off.
Crying TreeMessage #2398 - 06/06/10 01:46 AMBGA4444 Nice post. The oil will be all gone in not too long. Food will be worth more than gold when that happens and a population die off due to lack of transportation. Maybe growing up poor was not such a bad idea. I know how to live on nothing and where the food is that nature supplies us. The arrogant will fall & fail. I think were about the same age and enjoyed a cleaner, happier planet. They sure are not leaving much for the future children to enjoy. Sold the future for a dollar & the enviroment for oil. 100% chance buyers remorse will happen to those who stole all in the name of oil & money.
b brown fridayMessage #2399 - 06/06/10 01:25 PMCan't we just reset the debt- can you say Jubilee time?
djrickMessage #2400 - 06/06/10 03:22 PM"Be a lot easier to sell 'stimulus' that actually was instead of having to justify handouts to bankers & bond holders in the guise of 'stimulus'. Fund R&D in alt energy, environmental clean up, sustainable ag - etc. - something that might actually provide future productivity that could pay back some of the debt and maybe, just maybe folks might be more inclined to sign up for it. Handing it to Goldman Sachs via some obscure conduit [like we did with AIG] only stimulates banker bonuses and the electorate now gets that. With that as the outcome we might as well burn it all down now and get it over with."
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:24:38 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #2401 - 06/06/10 03:36 PMReset the dept if you want, you can't reset the environment. California's & Washington's sport fishing has been in the toilet for decades. Mexico has clean waters and our charter boats fish there out of San Diego. The salmon on the west coast are pretty much gone except Alaska. The kelp disappeared for almost 20 years in Santa Monica Bay because of chemicals in sewage dumped in the ocean. The kelp is back today because they eliminated the chemical. The eco system is not. The fish are not. I caught too many one eyed halibut and deformed fish from chemicals. Scientist warned over a generation ago only eat migratory fish in Santa Monica Bay. Louisiana doesn't know what their in for in the long run. They only want to clean up what you can see. The beach will recover but the eco system - ? 
BGA4444Message #2402 - 06/06/10 06:17 PMIs there just one governmental dept. not on the take and in bed with those who they regulate? Damn!
Crying TreeMessage #2403 - 06/06/10 06:54 PMBGA4444 - Would we be better off as slaves? The state of Washington now taxes candy, soda pop and bottled water among all other taxes. Water? Maybe if decent water was supplied by states we would not buy bottled water. How are people supposed save anything? Government housing and an allowance? Oh, their already doing that!!! Step out the door in California you will pay. Even for parking not down town. Is government tooooooooooooo BIG!!! I was for the government stepping into the stock market but please go back to your government offices and screw things up there - we don't need you, thank You very much.
AEKaraMessage #2404 - 06/06/10 07:07 PMSo lets sum up. High unemployment, good paying jobs very scarce, very high consumer debt and the government has probably fired its one magic bullet but it was dud. Oh yea and this is what's coming up to bat....  add to this commercial real state loan resets in late 2010 and 2011 and we are done ladies and Gents. Hell we could be wishing this was only as bad as the 30s.
Crying TreeMessage #2405 - 06/06/10 11:09 PMMaybe Dec. 21 2012? I have heard these warnings before but this time seems different. Just the same I will plan on tomorrow. Not much honesty left & wild life disappearing through human's fault point to a strong possibility something is up. Wild life are innocent and humans are not. Could be our time is coming up. Money or gold will not help you.
BGA4444Message #2406 - 06/08/10 11:21 AMBP a company with a "culture of mistrust" from its own employees. Has been on probation for years for safety violations. Risk life and planet just to save a buck. I will never buy gas or anything from a BP store again. They have raped all of us long enough!
Crying TreeMessage #2407 - 06/09/10 07:17 PMBGA4444 - I still think were in some sort of depression. People are hanging on to their cars for dear life. What if you bought a house and lost your job? Their goes credit and everything else and not just the house. The Grapes of Wrath mentality is still with us. Hang on to your means to escape to somewhere else at all costs. What else will save you from starving? Government cuts are coming.
outaheresoonMessage #2408 - 06/09/10 07:31 PMGovernment cuts are coming. We need to cut off the head of the snake. Remove all elected officials, and continue to do so at every election until we get change.
Crying TreeMessage #2409 - 06/09/10 07:44 PMThat is a lot of cutting but your right.
BGA4444Message #2410 - 06/09/10 08:00 PMI agree, I hope every incumbent running loses. If they win It will not be because of me I am voting against all incumbents repub or demo! What really scares me is paying down the debt. Even if you only paid 5% a year for twenty years. The payment would put us in a ongoing recession if not worse. I bet GDP would fall by 5 to 15% every year until it was paid. Greece has the same dilemma right now. They are better off just defaulting and starting over! When you make loans that you know will kill someone to repay you you should not have made the loan to begin with. Who is the bad guy? Certainly not Greece. If they could print their own money they would at least be in as good a shape as the USA.
rj45503Message #2411 - 06/09/10 08:01 PM"I will never buy gas or anything from a BP store again." The stores are not owned by BP. They just sell them gas. You will be hurting a small business person trying to pay his rent, and house payment.
neohguyMessage #2412 - 06/09/10 08:03 PMWho is this invisible poster?
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:25:31 GMT -5
Crying TreeMessage #2413 - 06/09/10 08:14 PMThe invisible man or casper the ghost? Were running out of oil or they would not be poking around the sea floor at those depts. Letting any of them drill there without being able to stop a disaster should be against US Policy on permits. I thought they were high tech not just greedy oil jerks who care less who's country they destroy.
neohguyMessage #2414 - 06/09/10 08:27 PMThe invisible man or casper the ghost? Were running out of oil or they would not be poking around the sea floor at those depts. Letting any of them drill there without being able to stop a disaster should be against US Policy on permits. I thought they were high tech not just greedy oil jerks who care less who's country they destroy. Part of the problem (huge part) is crony regulation. The revolving door between regulators and the industry they are supervising.
BGA4444Message #2415 - 06/10/10 07:39 PMCongress considering more stimulus on fears this "booming" economy maybe headed for a double dip. Duh, how about a 25,000 tax credit for small businesses that hire one employee. How about something that will help on main st. and put Americans back to work for a change. Did you guys know when a unemployed person comes off state unemployment and goes on federal he is no longer counted as unemployed. What is the true rate 30%. I am just glad things are going so good!
PirateOfWarMessage #2416 - 06/10/10 07:57 PMCmon bga, don't be such a killjoy, try to think more governmentally....eg: ideas to solve the problems...more oil is leaking....yayyyy....we can increase employment with more taxpayer funded cleanup crews...how about population of zoo aminals in the US....we could hire more census takers at taxpayer expense to find out those numbers.
BGA4444Message #2417 - 06/10/10 08:28 PMPirate, I bet the census count would be more accurate on zoo animals. What a waste of taxpayer dollars the census is.
AEKaraMessage #2418 - 06/10/10 08:41 PMPirate, I bet the census count would be more accurate on zoo animals. What a waste of taxpayer dollars the census is. But then cant spend a few million to audit Fort Knox. To audit the true property of the people. its too expensive according to our slave owners, I mean our government.
djrickMessage #2419 - 06/11/10 01:20 AMWealth and means needs to face risk-return trade offs so capitalism can actually work as an economic engine for all of us, not a grinding wheel that profits 1% of us. Eventually the supply of suckers runs out and all that's left are claims held on debts you can't collect on because there is no one left who is capable of paying them. I've read where some bankruptcy attorneys are saying the only way to stop the avalanche of people losing their homes (look at the upcoming tidal wave of mortgage resets) is to cram down principal balances. Remember President Obama talking about it during the campaign? This was the plan, until the banksters got to him. [ www.mortgageorb.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.2793] Mortgage Orb: Content / Mortgage Servicing / Democrats Introduce Cramdown Legislation "Democrats in the House and Senate twice tried to pass similar legislation last year, once in the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 and later in the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, but they ran into opposition from Republican leaders. President-elect Obama said during his presidential campaign that he would try to pass cramdown legislation upon taking office." So what happened? [ thehill.com/homenews/senate/72197-cramdown-legislation-could-be-a-losing-battle-backers-say] ‘Cramdown’ legislation could be a losing battle, backers say - TheHill.com Throughout the ups and downs of the debate this year, the Obama administration never came out strongly in favor of the bankruptcy measure. It was never a key element of the administration·s policies in the Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP) to encourage lenders and servicers to modify mortgages. There is a large # in the unemployed ranks that are 50+ and are barely hanging on thru a combo of spending their savings and unemployment. What happens to this group when a)unemployment runs out b)savings/401k runs out and no new job? Over aged 50 faces a huge hurdle, the employer is leery that if things don't work out they might face an age discrimination suit and there are legions of younger people looking for jobs. Stats out today show that the loan modification program from the gov is not working - because like all our gov local, state, fed, if there is TOO MUCH DEBT it will not work.
Crying TreeMessage #2420 - 06/11/10 01:27 AMSuicides are up here. Someone just hanged themselves on a tree by Costco. No Job - No benefits - No Life.
BGA4444Message #2421 - 06/11/10 03:43 PMHeck no DJ it is not working because the mortgage companies would rather foreclose than refinance. How do you refi a home that is worth less than the old mortgage amount. The only way to refi is put a huge amount of waste money down against the old loan amount- Good luck with that one! People are better off to walk away and buy the same house down the street for 35% less. Walk away you are shocked. It is the American way! We have turned in to mostly liars and crooks. No wonder the rest of the world hates and distrust us.
Crying TreeMessage #2422 - 06/11/10 04:01 PMBGA4444 - I bought out new place at less than half the value. Great deal? Now prices are down to that level without short sale. I will not walk way. The banks are tough today. Almost as bad as government checks on secret clearances. You gotta know when to hold and when to fold. Rates are extremely low and a great time to buy. It is a cake walk and when the music stops you are stuck where you land or credit destruction.
djrickMessage #2423 - 06/13/10 04:14 PMCry, about a month ago my sis-in-law stopped to talk to a gentleman working @ Costco, he was changing the garbage liners at the entrance. He had thanked her for shopping @ Costco when she grabbed her cart, in their short conversation he told her he had a masters of finance (she absolutely believes him, she said he seemed like a former white collar)absolutely had not been able to find a job for a long time and was grateful that Costco had given him a job. His age, about 55 in the Twin Cities area, upper scale suburb. BGA, the bankstas and real estate agents would rather see the homes emptied cause the turnover causes new fees to generate for them, YAY, more money for the FIRE industry that helped blow up the world economy. No moral hazard, they might be sorry down the road for what they churn up, take away all hope from a group of people, former middle class and not expecting to be poor, and see what you get.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2424 - 06/13/10 04:57 PM I went back to the beginning of this thread to see when it was started by BGA - 1/31/09 - Here we are one and a half years later and things have not improved at all - maybe they have gotten worse but with the government manipulating the data and spewing their Propaganda through the White House, Bernanke, & Little Tax Cheat Timmy sometimes the water is too cloudy to see the real picture. My question now is not whether we are in a Depression, but will it get worse? or when will it end? I am betting yes it will get worse and as to the end - Not Sure - But since it will take 2-3 years just to recover the lost jobs as of now. Now that's depressing for me - Knowing the earliest we will start to turn around is 2012 or 2013! And that's assuming the government can avoid Devaluing the Dollar as many are now predicting - If that happens we are doomed for at least 10 years economically IMO.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:26:23 GMT -5
BGA4444Message #2425 - 06/15/10 11:49 AMFalling, you are correct, the only thing that has improved is the market. Unemployment has actually gotten worse since this post started. I know my companies negative trends continue. There really is not far left for us to fall. The next step for us is close the doors. I really hope that doesn't happen. We have all taken pay cuts just to help the company stay afloat. I am convinced the unemployment issue is about to become a leading indicator of what will soon happen. America is hemorrhaging jobs, money, and the trade deficit is going to absolutely kill us. Local governments have begun to raise taxes to makeup for budget shortfalls. Taking money out of taxpayers wallets is going to weaken us further. I am afraid we are on the abyss. Everyone voted for change and we will all soon get more change than we bargained for.
BGA4444Message #2426 - 06/16/10 10:36 AMI have got a friend who is in Gulfshores,Alabama this week. He said no swimming in the ocean. Oil is everywhere with no one cleaning it up. Lastly it is a ghost town. BP is gone. The fines from the spill alone are now well over a trillion dollars. The fed and the states want BP to put billions in escrow accounts. I do believe it is time to short BP all the way to the bottom. Go get em tigers! There is nothing like tons of naked shorts! It could not happen to a nicer bunch of a-holes!
Crying TreeMessage #2427 - 06/16/10 01:12 PMBGA4444 - BP did not take my advice. They are removing the beach sand with each shovel full instead of tractors with screens to remove oil and leave sand. Bad beach erosion will appear with the first storm. California appears on the verge of collapse economically and it sure is a dirty place to visit today. Dead fruit trees a long freeway with sighs Congress makes dust bowl - grow trees where water grows. Rest stops a long freeway are filthy. Housing & jobs must be fixed first for a recovery to happen. Money first and the heck with all won't leave much of anything.
BGA4444Message #2428 - 06/16/10 04:03 PMThe back to real numbers on housing just came out. Economist geniuses that they are were expecting over 650,000 new home units. They only missed it by 200,000. I guess we will get back to the real recovery numbers now! Jack Welch was talking about how great things were this morning on MSNBC. What a joke! He stated business were booming and consumers were spending. What a joke what country do you live in Jack?
BGA4444Message #2429 - 06/18/10 01:28 PMThe Republican governor of Texas just said what all republicans feel. The 20 billion was a shakedown by Obama against a poor Company. Republicans represent big business and Democrats represent the poor folks I just wonder who represents the rest of us. I will vote for any independent that runs. You politicians just suck! Big business will end up sucking the life out of the middle class. All in the name of protecting the dividend!
Stay PutMessage #2430 - 06/18/10 08:02 PMBGA, it all boils down to what Glen Beck has pointed out and has proven (factually). Democrat and Republican Progressives want a one world government. The Democrats want the UN to run the world government and the Republicans want the USA to run the world government. Both are unconstitutional and destroys our sovereign nation status.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2431 - 06/19/10 02:46 PMJapan's own Prime Minister is warning of Japans economic collapse - Why isn't the world paying attention? This will make Greece look like a walk in the park! www.inthenews.co.uk/news/film/japanese-pm-warns-of-financial-collapse-over-debt-concerns-$21379726.htm
Crying TreeMessage #2432 - 06/19/10 03:50 PMBGA4444- What a mess. America must reinvent itself. The direction it has gone will produce failure. Taxes and food prices are way too high. Where is the rebuilding of the infrastructure that was promised by Obama? Putting people back to work and giving them pride and satisfaction in life. Welfare is the soup line and work is still disappearing. Lies only last so long and the truth always catches up with them. Time tells all tales and the bottom is closing in on all of us. Better to tell the truth and grab the bull by the horns instead of Keep dancing, everything is fine.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2433 - 06/19/10 04:25 PMWhere is the rebuilding of the infrastructure that was promised by Obama? He had a photo op this week touting the 10,000th road project under the stimulus plan but I haven't seen much road work going on here in this part of Virginia.
decoy409Message #2434 - 06/19/10 04:31 PMCrying Tree , I had started to explain in my 'old history' a few weeks ago what has happened. I never finished. Somehow I will put say just a few paragraphs at a time how this goes from where I had left off. And as time goes along here it will become more undeniable by those that deny that it is the course and is not subject to change. Therefore the terrible just becomes worse,and there will be even more broken promises,broken words. And 'change' is emerging as I write. I am pretty much convinced now that the Gulf oil deal is the next black flag. The unimaginable from this begs to get out,and as each day passes,a bit more is revealed. It 'is' not 'if' going to be a shocker beyond belief. It holds incredible power.
Crying TreeMessage #2435 - 06/19/10 05:21 PMDecoy409 - We bought a short sale home for far less than half the value. Homes dropped to the value of the short sale price we paid. Last 30 days our place dropped another $25,000. I did not get tax deduction or anything for the purchase in late 2009. It is a beautiful place but no jobs = no way for others to buy homes. I drove from one end of the west coast to the other last week. People sitting on bus stops with faces down and covered with their hands. Nasty attitudes were also encountered. Everything is fine and recovering is not what I saw. Maybe for the rich but not the working class. Hold on to your job if you can. Parts of the country are probably doing better than other parts?
leepetsMessage #2436 - 06/19/10 05:39 PMThings are only going to get worst for awhile. Everywhere you look down almost every block foreclosures. sometimes 2 or 3 within a block. Or house for rent that just sits empty. It takes like $3000 to get into a rented house with 1st, last ,deposit so even the rental houses sit empty . Houses for sale everywhere. Business (so many) are closing . I have never seen it so bad in all my life. I live in Florida and most all the business's have slowed down. Houses are going to go way down. What makes them head further is they keep advertizing foreclosed homes for sale cheaper. So the people trying to sell their homes for a decent price are out in the cold on that one.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:27:15 GMT -5
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2437 - 06/19/10 06:03 PMWhat makes them head further is they keep advertizing foreclosed homes for sale cheaper. So the people trying to sell their homes for a decent price are out in the cold on that one. I Stated 2 years ago it would take 10-15 years to recover from this. I'm still sticking to my original estimate. So in my opinion we are looking at 2018 minimum for housing prices to recover. I invest in real estate and I have never seen it this bad. It is a good opportunity for investors that can ride it out for 10 more years. The jobs situation is bad also - at least 2 - 3 years just to get back to 2008 employment levels. You can try and call what's happening a Great Recession or whatever but what it really is - A full blown Depression! Don't think so? Well if the government stopped all stimulus, all unemployment , all welfare subsidies you would see people dying of starvation and rioting in the streets. I heard on the radio that 1 in 8 Americans now qualify for food stamps. This is not a good situation.
FetonaMessage #2438 - 06/19/10 06:45 PMI saw a road project in my town, but I just have to laugh... it just looks like very small potatos.
FetonaMessage #2439 - 06/19/10 06:48 PMFrom Falling Sky: I Stated 2 years ago it would take 10-15 years to recover from this. I'm still sticking to my original estimate. So in my opinion we are looking at 2018 minimum for housing prices to recover. 10-15 years sounds pretty drastic, but I just heard that in Japan when housing prices started falling in 1991, they kept falling until 2006! So you might be right on that.
ComoKateMessage #2440 - 06/19/10 07:46 PMDead fruit trees a long freeway with sighs Congress makes dust bowl - grow trees where water grows. Rest stops a long freeway are filthy. Housing & jobs must be fixed first for a recovery to happen. Money first and the heck with all won't leave much of anything. I'm sure you are correct in your observations, which is why I decided not to live in Southern California after spending 5 years there. I did not like what I saw brewing and it appeared it would only get worse. I know I get chided, from time to time, on this board for "wearing rose colored glasses" ( and other times I get called a "gloom and doomer"...kind of ironic). I consider myself a *realist* who would rather encourage people to work together than struggle separately. Weed filled boulevards and trash strewn streets don't have to stay that way...instead of people sitting on their butts waiting/expecting someone else to do the work, grab a bag and weed or pick up trash. I volunteer with a group here that does both and it's become an annual tradition. We got someone to print up t-shirts with "VOLUNTEER" written on the front/backs since so many people could not believe we were doing it on our own and were not part of a "work/release" prison group... There have actually been some local coffee shops and bakeries that donate goods for the volunteers ( great PR/free advertising for them!) and it's actually *fun* ( and you meet the nicest people!). We have more leisure time now than at any point in our history, yet a multitude of community services/lands/projects are falling into disrepair. Communities need STRONG LEADERS *separate from *politicians* ( who have become so corrupt, so self-serving they have forgotten what their role is supposed to be) who can rally people together to get things done. Not everything has to be about money...great things can be accomplished with people working together. But we need *local* leaders that reflect the ethnic heritage of their communities; people that know the areas, know the people, understand the local cultures. Waiting for "Washington" to solve problems is disastrous; Washington has become out-of-touch with American communities.
Falling Sky - NotMessage #2441 - 06/19/10 07:48 PM10-15 years sounds pretty drastic My basis is from real estate I bought in the 80's when the market collapsed and it took me 8 years to recover the value of the property. Compared to this collapse that was nothing - just over zealous builders flooding the market too fast. This time around is much worse.
BGA4444Message #2442 - 06/21/10 12:08 PMDepression my friends is upon us. Be it economy or in our minds. Atlanta, a strong southern city has open commercial property everywhere. In my neighborhood prices have fallen 25% and many homes are for sale that will not sell at any price. Most of these homes are foreclosures. It is terrible and appears to be getting worse! Businesses are closing everyday! Unemployment is around stated 10%. I believe it is much worse! I am a manager with a small company. We just have to keep cutting employees and profits on jobs just to survive. We recently cut installers wages 20%. They have not had a wage increase in twenty years. They were very angry at the cuts. But they realize if we are not in business they will have no jobs. They have agreed to keep working with the promise if things improve we will take their wages back up! These are all subcontractors. Many people say things are improving and getting better. To those statements I say BS. Things are not improving. They are getting much worse!
BGA4444Message #2443 - 06/22/10 02:54 PMIf they think May's home sales are bad just wait till they see June's and July's. I bet July will be a double digit decline. Speaking of double, the double dip recession/depression is about to go full on. I bet unemployment jumps to 11% as soon as the "census jobs" and "BP oil clean" up jobs go away. It is going to be along winter!
DriftrMessage #2444 - 06/22/10 03:03 PMYou think the BP oil clean up jobs are going to go away soon? That's pretty optimistic of you.
BGA4444Message #2445 - 06/22/10 03:30 PMAs soon as BP can get that gusher plugged they will be out of there so fast our heads will spin. They will do this leaving the locals to fend for themselves. Remember, they already agreed to pony up 20 billion. Anything else gotten out of BP will come from twenty plus years of suits just like the "Exxon Valdez" lawsuits. The government will use the twenty billion to pay their already worthless employees to stand around and be useless in the Gulf coast. Maybe you have seen some of them walking up and down the beaches in the clown suits doing absolutely nothing!
marshallcrazyMessage #2446 - 06/22/10 03:37 PMI don't know how many jobs will be "created" from the clean up efforts as compared to the number of already employed at the clean up firms who are also obviously being utilized. What I do know is the job losses from fishing, oil/energy due to the moratorium on drilling including all service related industries such as crew boats, etc, and all tourism related industries is expected to be 200,000 at least for the near term.
djrickMessage #2447 - 06/22/10 07:53 PM In North America, the ranks of the rich rose 17 percent and their wealth grew 18 percent to $10.7 trillion. [ www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65L36T20100622] World's rich got richer amid '09 recession: report | Reuters
great depression1Message #2448 - 06/22/10 09:07 PMlmao! the front page says casino stocls a hot option........of course they are,most all of the states with smoking bans excempted the casinos and the ones that didnt excempt em like illinois where the state casinos lost 250 millon in the first 3 months after the smoking ban went into effect.......smoking bans are baaad for business.
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:28:08 GMT -5
great depression1Message #2449 - 06/22/10 09:10 PMI was in rivergate mall yesterday and it looks like the great depression hit it in nashville tn.......buildings closed and for sale everywhere.........Im talking big franchise burger joints out of business in the busiest section of the city.
BGA4444Message #2450 - 06/22/10 09:31 PMgd1, Atlanta is the same way. Brand new strip shopping centers one to two years old sitting totally empty. Many have gone from "for lease" to "for sale". Looks like many have just been handed back to the banks. We have two locations in North Atlanta- High end demographics a lot of money and education. Both the shopping center in Woodstock and the industrial showrooms in Roswell are 40-50% empty. The people who are still here have renegotiated leases 25 to 45% less than what they were paying. Some idiot down the street decided to go up on rent and every business including Starbucks moved out. What a idiot! We voted for change and we darn sure have it change for the worse!
djrickMessage #2451 - 06/23/10 12:21 AMAs long as the ringleaders (CEO's of ToBigToFails, Greenspan, etc.) are not held responsible for their crimes, then we have to expect that a lawless society will follow. Young people look to the leaders of society as role models. When they look up and see unrestrained greed and amoral scumbags in positions of power, what do you think is going to happen?
djrickMessage #2452 - 06/23/10 12:24 AM MERCED, Calif. · The first time Carey Mitchell saw her, Tammy was standing at an intersection near the 16th Street off ramp from Highway 99. Her clothes looked dirty, her face tired. She held a cardboard sign asking for spare change. Without thinking, Mitchell pulled her car over. In an instant, Tammy was at her window. Mitchell rolled it down. ·Do you need a place to sleep tonight?· she remembers asking. On a scrap of paper, Mitchell quickly sketched a map to a house a few miles away. It was Mitchell·s house, but she didn·t want it anymore. [ www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/09/75128/as-owners-leave-foreclosed-homes.html] As owners leave foreclosed homes, squatters move in | McClatchy
BGA4444Message #2453 - 06/23/10 02:45 PM33% drop in new home sales. Wow the roaring 2010's could it really get much worse? As new home sales decline to pre 1963 levels. Do you really still believe this is a recovery?
BGA4444Message #2454 - 06/25/10 01:16 PMIf you take government stimulus out of the equation. The GDP is still tanking. If you take war spending out of the equation the GDP is probably falling double digits. Government stimulus and war spending only helps special interest groups anyway. The rest of us do not get jack but a higher tax bill! I can not wait till we get back around to the cash for clunkers numbers and the 8,000 tax credit for homes. I would say the fourth quarter of this year should be very revealing as to the status of the real economy!
rjslrsMessage #2455 - 06/25/10 03:26 PMI'd like to know where the "soaring consumer sentiment" is at...........sure isn't what I am hearing in my immediate area.
BGA4444Message #2456 - 06/25/10 04:54 PMRJS, they must have called only the Hampton's area code to do the survey!LOL They sure did not call anyone in Atlanta!
Stay PutMessage #2457 - 06/25/10 10:41 PMI'd like to know where the "soaring consumer sentiment" is at...........sure isn't what I am hearing in my immediate area. Real easy to get a legitimate look at the consumer sentiment. I'm in New York. New York is falling apart and on the brink of total collapse. If everyone chimes in, we can get a more realistic look at the nation's sentiment. Sometime back I asked the question "What's in your states wallet". Are there any booming states out there that the rest of the nation is simply unaware of?
engleclairMessage #2458 - 06/26/10 12:47 AMIn this week's Time Magazine, North Dakota, South Dakota and I believe Alaska are carrying a budget SURPLUS. Every other state was in pretty rough shape. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Everyone thinks these recent budget cuts are the end all and be all of our problems. We haven't even SCRATCHED the surface.
reality ck.Message #2459 - 06/26/10 01:41 AMGreed is individual....Capitalism doesn't have to be greedy....we as individuals make that choice
Stay PutMessage #2460 - 06/26/10 04:17 AMGreed is individual....Capitalism doesn't have to be greedy.... Capitalism isn't the problem. Progressives (Communists) who are bent on destroying our economy and Constitution so as to usher in a one world order, is what has been and is destroying our nation on every level. True United States Constitutional Capitalism, with Tariffs firmly in place made this the greatest nation in the world. Only after a hundred years of both chipping away at our Constitution and implementing Socialist programs, have we finally found ourselves on the very edge of total disaster.
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bga4444
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:29:00 GMT -5
b brown fridayMessage #2462 - 06/26/10 07:25 AMstay put- what??
LongSamMessage #2463 - 06/27/10 03:23 AMdjrick, sorry we can't allow advertising for political events. Sam/moderator
djrickMessage #2464 - 06/27/10 04:11 AMSam, sorry, I must have missed the political affiliation, sounded like a grass roots movement to organize people to meet on the mall in DC on the 2nd to put a face on the unemployment in this country. I am not a fan of established politics on either side of the table, they just love for the average folks to squabble among themselves about things like gays, God, and guns while the politicians line their pockets with lobbyist money and spend 30 years on Capitol Hill retiring with golden parachute benefits paid for by the American people. /rant off. 
Silver OnyxMessage #2465 - 06/27/10 04:27 AMI am not a fan of established politics on either side of the table, they just love for the average folks to squabble among themselves about things like gays, God, and guns while the politicians line their pockets with lobbyist money and spend 30 years on Capitol Hill retiring with golden parachute benefits paid for by the American people. /rant off.
Just like Corporate America, except they do it through insider trading and/or stock options, and "less" time served of course..
djrickMessage #2466 - 06/27/10 04:46 AMSilver, DC's corporate masters have taught them well......... Now lets talk about high unemployment because there isn't enough left over after saving the banks. Immediate 25% pay cut for Congress.
djrickMessage #2467 - 06/27/10 05:05 AM"Given the fact that the banks are writing national economic policy these days, it doesn·t look good for people expecting a leisure society to materialize any time soon." <snip> [ www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article20605.html] Europe’s Fiscal Dystopia: The “New Austerity” Road to Financial Serfdom :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website It really is bankers vs. labor, world wide.
centralcoastMessage #2468 - 06/27/10 05:29 AMGee we've been in our motorhome for the last 3 months, all over the Country, prices high no deals, recession, my butt.
djrickMessage #2469 - 06/27/10 03:36 PMnull
engleclairMessage #2470 - 06/28/10 01:18 AMDJRick, you are the man! I laugh EVERY time I read that.
Crying TreeMessage #2471 - 06/28/10 01:34 AMPrices are high. Taxes are high. Take - take - take on low wages. Where is the fun money? Why so many bums? - Central Coast has their share of bums.
Stay PutMessage #2472 - 06/28/10 03:17 AMdjrick, where did you get your copy of the Communist manifesto?
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bga4444
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:29:53 GMT -5
djrickMessage #2473 - 06/28/10 03:47 AMoops, last part didn't post... He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn·t have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn·t mention that the beloved conservatives have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: ·We don·t need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I·m a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.·
BGA4444Message #2474 - 06/28/10 01:41 PMDJ, good post and I agree with most. Nearly everything in there took place in the first eight decades of the twentieth century. For the last three decades the liberals and the conservatives have done nothing but grind our country into the sewer. They have wasted tax payer dollars and become so tied to special interest groups that Washington is a joke. Instead of using our money to build a strong independent America they have given our wealth away to the very nations that would destroy us. Now we are owned and I mean owned by the nation that owns the "general store" China. The politicians of the last three decades have been self serving, immoral, dishonest, men and women who have sold the middle class down the river. Robert Byrd 92 years old and fifty years in Congress/Senate what a joke! Now maybe the voters of his home state can at least get a politician under eighty who will have a small idea of the average voters situation. TERM LIMITS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crying TreeMessage #2475 - 06/28/10 04:16 PMAl Gore won the election. Does your vote count? No. Government is too big and getting bigger plus catering to big business at the expense of all. Getting people back to work at decent wages should be the priority. Over taxed small businesses is not helping anyone including governments of city, county, state & feds.
djrickMessage #2476 - 06/28/10 05:26 PMHi BGA, I don't care for labels but like to poke at any side that gets too self righteous, the 98-99% of us that do not own most of the world's assets should be working together to solve problems, not throwing stones at each other. But the powers that be love it, you know the Romans had people's behavior pegged, throw bread and circuses at the mobs to keep them full and distracted on what the ruling class is doing. An added bonus, now the peasants are still admiring the ruling classes and screaming about working class people (which most of us fall in that catagory )getting too much unemployment, which is a hang by your teeth existence. A lot of them still buy into the notion that they have been sold that if they work hard enough, are smart enough, that they too will be dining with Bill Gates and Uncle Warren at the next political $5,000/plate fundraiser. Take a look at Brazil and their corrupt government, Rio has over a 1,000 slums, if you have connections and have any money your house is protected by razor wire and a guard house and you worry about your kids getting kidnapped coming home from a birthday party. Come on people, is this the kind of America you want? I have not seen what I consider to be a conservative in the US since Barry Goldwater, what is spending money like drunken sailors, ie Bush II, have to do with being conservative? Remember Dick "Deficits don't matter" Cheney? Both major parties need to get their walking papers out of DC by the American public. They are bought and paid for corporate hacks and should be shuffled off starting Nov 10. VOTE THE INCUMBENTS OUT...../rant off
decoy409Message #2477 - 06/28/10 05:40 PMdj , that's some mighty fine history you are going through. I stopped telling the tale of history from way back as a lot of people would be pissed off at me if I had continued. However it really should be spilt. If the unknowing became knowing my oh my that would really be a game changer. You mention Goldwater. From my written works I have a piece I titled 'Final.' Final covers some pretty harsh stuff. It covers words of others from history and a whole lot more. I wish to share at this time a excerpt from my work. I extracted this part from 'Final', The housekeeper can not have a clean house when the dirt is hidden instead of cleaned. In turn the owner of the
house or the guests that enter in that house will remain a mixed group. Thus the transparency of truth will remain
to be no more than dirt that 'all' shall dwell in and walk upon. U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his 1964 book: With No Apologies "The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim,nothing less than to create a world system of
financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and each economy of the
world as a 'whole'. The system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting
in concert,by secret agreements,arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was
the bank for international settelments,in Basle,Switzerland,a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds central
banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization
of world economic control and use of this power from the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all
other economic groups." So when the question would not be answered as to "who got the money",well now you know! "We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money"
Arthur Schlesinger,Jr. in Foreign Affairs (July/August 1995) "The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant 'octopus' sprawls it's slimy length
over city,state and nation. Like the 'octopus' of real life,it operates under cover of a self created screen....
At the head of this 'octopus' are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking
houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually
run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties."
New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922 "The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining super capitalism and
communism under the same tent,all under their control.....Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is
such a plot,international in scope,generations old in planning,and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald,1976,killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by Soviets And if one cares to indulge further examination much of the above can be found within this cover:
The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship: An Examination of Epistemic Autocracy,From the 19th to the 21st Century
By Phillip Darrell Collins, Paul David Collins Yes the kettle has been boiling and the heat has just been turned up. Start sticking in those red hot pokers that have been in the fire for way to long and look out.
DriftrMessage #2478 - 06/28/10 05:45 PMVOTE THE INCUMBENTS OUT Amen. Words I plan to live by until I see us run a national surplus for two years. If that happens I'll stick with the party currently in power until they go into the red again. Unfortunately, I expect to be voting opposite of incumbants until the day I die...
decoy409Message #2479 - 06/28/10 05:48 PMDriftr , can you be a little clearer with the following? If that happens I'll stick with the party currently in power until they go into the red again. Did I miss something really big? I was not aware that trillions have been brought out of the red.
Stay PutMessage #2480 - 06/28/10 06:50 PMHere's the problem with dj's whole post (lies). The American people fought for the protections that we now enjoy. The Commie Liberals have simply taken credit for what the "Constitutional American people" have fought for. The true Commie Liberals are such a minority in this country that nothing that they would want to get passed (save for the recent administrations) would have ever been accepted or passed by our elected officials were it not for support of the American people. Listen. Do the union dues, paid for by Joe's father, pay for his retirement? No! They have to steal money from you and me to be able to give him a pension. So if Joe's dad worked for thirty years, he gets to continue with all of his pay and benefits for an additional 30 years. 30 years of pay and benefits for doing nothing, and we foot the bill. If Joe's dad was such a great man, why didn't he save and invest into his own retirement? Did you or I get to benefit from Joe's dad's union paycheck while he did work? Why should the rest of us pay for him to live that life that most Americans didn't get to live? Don't buy into the Communist double talk and outright lies. How about Unions making it totally impossible for any company to hire minorities until the 1970's. They love to use the "heart string tactic" to get their agenda passed. What's that agenda? Communist rule for you and your children.
Crying TreeMessage #2481 - 06/28/10 07:51 PMSeems like 60% of the people are O.K. and 40% are po at the world. Opportunities, benefits seem better for illegal immigrants, foreign workers than USA Citizens near the bottom of the financial latter. We need a correction at those levels for Americans starting out in their work life. American business leaders need to be more considerate for their own but again the dollar stands in the way.
BGA4444Message #2482 - 06/29/10 11:11 AMI was watching Sean Hannity last night. He spoke of a well known liberal who is saying we are entering a depression. I did not pick up his name but when the Obama backers start saying things like that beware! The futures are under 10,000 for the Dow this morning- not good!
engleclairMessage #2483 - 06/29/10 12:15 PMStay Put- Give it up. You've been owned in this thread. Why don't you push for all registered Republicans to forgo their Social Security, unemployment, and any other welfare programs that are distributed.
txbizownrMessage #2484 - 06/29/10 01:21 PMWhy don't you push for all registered Republicans to forgo their Social Security, unemployment, and any other welfare programs that are distributed.
Would gladly do that...as long as I don't have to pay into it and can take that money and invest it myself... that would actually be grand! and I would be much better off in the long run..as of right now ss will not be there for me anyhow! tx
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:30:45 GMT -5
DriftrMessage #2485 - 06/29/10 01:41 PMI think it'll still be there when we retire TX. I just hope that by the time we get to it, the date it becomes available to us has been pushed back another 3 years or more. I also expect whatever we receive to be worth less because what we need to spend it on will likely not be included in CPI (or whatever is currently used to determine increases in payout).
engleclairMessage #2486 - 06/29/10 01:50 PMHey txbizownr- So no one you know (friends or relatives) are not on Social Security or unemployment? Please, step out of your bubble for a second. Some of the attitudes on here remind me of some of my friends' parents. They whine and moan that Jr. can't get a stable, well paying job. One friend's father is the chief of Police is and is constantly on his son for being lazy even though he holds a job. Sure, baby boomers have been ROBBING the public blind with their pensions and inflated salaries for years and now it's the younger people who have to foot the bill. These boomers are in for some trouble in the next decade or so. People remember.
MACHINEWIZMessage #2487 - 06/29/10 01:52 PMTX, Social Security isn't just about your retirement. If people like you don't pay into it who is going to take care of the disabled people and children? We pay into it to take care of our own. If you ever get hurt at work and can't get on workers comp then you are going to be thanking your lucky stars you paid into it. Or if you get a medical condition and can't work you'll be glad you paid into it. My dad got hurt at work and had a leg amputated and the other leg bolted together and couldn't get on full disability on workers comp and relied on social security disability to live on. I was young then and also got a social security check to pay for living expenses. Thank god for social security or we would have lost everything. So think of all the other people who rely on it before you talk about shutting it down with out a alternative. I found out that when most people talk down social security they don't have a clue how it actually works other than you get a check when you hit retirement age.
MACHINEWIZMessage #2488 - 06/29/10 02:03 PMSocial Security works it's just the government needs to keep there hands off of it and quit using the money for other stupid things. There's enough money being paid in if we fix this government spending. There use to be a surplus till the government used some of it to pay down the deficit.
WaistofmoneyMessage #2490 - 06/29/10 02:19 PMThe Overall scale of things that need to happen is to large to EVER happen. We are living in a time that Growth was our downfall. My meaning is this example : In 1962 my father made $ 98. a week working for the rubber industry. Unions came in and said no more, you are worth more. Our first problem was allowing this to control our right to work. NOW you can not be fired until you have screwed up 3, 4 even 5 times. You are going to start at $18 or $ 19 an hour to train. and then mid twenties after training. To bring industry back to the U.S. we would need to dissolve Unions, and get back to a fair days wage for a fair days work. Why do you think people are coming to this country in the thousands. They will work 8 , 10, 12 hours a day for $5 , $6, $7 dollars an hour. Now make that a legal wage with taxes and it is still $10 bucks an hour. Our problem is we are spoiled and think we deserve to make $100 dollars before lunch and another $100 after lunch. Not counting an hour off with 15 minutes in the morning 15 minutes in the afternoon and 30 minutes at lunch.....That actually ends up being about an hour and a half of non production.
djrickMessage #2491 - 06/29/10 02:30 PMEven the bankruptcy laws were changed before this debacle and "W". tried to privatize Social Security. It wasn't enough for the oligarchs to profit from your labor throughout your productive life. It isn't enough to demand a bailout paid for by the future earnings of our people. We heard all about the "ownership society" 24/7 during W's tenure. It just never occurred to the general public that those words were code for the "owners" of 95+ percent of the wealth of this nation assuming ownership over whatever we have left, including future productivity. The upshot is that cheap fuel and productive people made the ruling elite exponentially more wealthy than ever before. Yet the elite have shown a resentment toward having to play nice occasionally. They clearly desire to roll back beyond FDR and Teddy, to that gilded age where clean water and food inspection were too much to ask. As Frank Zappa once pointed out, "The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
MACHINEWIZMessage #2492 - 06/29/10 02:55 PMIf the US runs out of credit what does that really mean. Is everyone saying there is a world government controlling everything. I thought there is no one above the the US. Who is giving our government credit and the people giving us credit who are they getting credit from and so on. Who is controlling everything? I just think this whole thing is just putting the fear of god in everyone just to bring in a world government as a solution to the made up problem. Think about it. I have my own business and this year is by far the best year I've had so far. Other business in the area are doing pretty good also. Unemployment has gone down in my area.
LostOnEarthMessage #2493 - 06/29/10 02:58 PMAnd as long as there is greed the world is doomed! Crash and burn stock market! Long live Robin Hood!
hvfpaintsMessage #2494 - 06/29/10 03:14 PMWaiste - I have the same problem with your reasoning that I have with the guy on here that claims everyone should be paid $100,000.00. That is - prices adjust to average salaries. I looked at 1964. Your Dad was probably up to 120.00/wk (just a guess). The price of a brand shiny new car was $3500.00. The price of a loaf of bread was $0.21. If you want to roll wages back (or up) you have to face the fact that sales prices go with them. As a business owner, you probably wouldn"t want to take a cut like that would you?
decoy409Message #2495 - 06/29/10 03:30 PM Say,who here owns the oil? Who here owns the groceries? Who here owns the auto manufacture? Who decides on prices in the world and what they will be? This is a Fantasy Island dream. You need to make all that money in order to purchase that because it costs that much. Oh really. This is mixing the bunch up beyond belief. In order to install Fantasy Island the table had to be set. And once it was set why just look what everybody has bought/purchased making them one step better than most people they know because they can afford it. The human has been dissected through the course of time. Everything we were originally taught as to how to live has been thrown out the window and all the while brainwashed into us that it is ok. However it is just the opposite. The scope and magnitude of this whole SHAM WoW is utterly impossible for most to conceive. All many can do is sit back and watch the events really unfold now as they will. Yesterday there was way to much going on and I showed that in my DECOY Post. You could smell it. And here we are. Many still believe we just walk out of this and all turns itself around. Ha! Ha! Ha! I would most certainly agree with that but right off the bat two things stop that,overpopulation and jobs. Overpopulation was not a factor before and creating jobs was not a factor. Oh things get real good now!
Stay PutMessage #2496 - 06/29/10 03:56 PMStay Put-
Give it up. You've been owned in this thread.
Why don't you push for all registered Republicans to forgo their Social Security, unemployment, and any other welfare programs that are distributed. I'm sorry. I don't speak ghetto. We were offered a plethora of languages to choose from, to meet our language requirements, but sadly ghetto wasn't one of them. I do understand how a certain segment of our society, who have for generations, lived off of government handouts would be terrified and enraged over having to actually earn their own way in life, but I do believe that all entitlements should end.
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bga4444
Established Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by bga4444 on Dec 24, 2010 3:31:38 GMT -5
hvfpaintsMessage #2497 - 06/29/10 04:02 PMDecoy - can I speak for the group here and say "Huh?" I don't it. The laws of supply and demand are pretty finite. Shortages cause prices to go up, gluts or lack of demand cause them to go down. Population models say when a population reaches a non-sustainable point there is a die off, either by disease or war, until it returns to a sustainable point. So.... What's your point?
txbizownrMessage #2498 - 06/29/10 04:15 PMSo no one you know (friends or relatives) are not on Social Security or unemployment? Please, step out of your bubble for a second.
Ah, nothing like a personal attack in the morning to start a conversation..glad I have had my cup of joe..oh and let me pop this darn bubble!! -tx Now, Yes I know both people on ss (wifes and my parents to start) and on UI (because I have had to put them there (not proud of it) I will explain to you what is wrong with the systems that are now in place. Sure, baby boomers have been ROBBING the public blind with their pensions and inflated salaries for years and now it's the younger people who have to foot the bill. Totally different subject, but we can address this later if you like.. Machinewiz, We pay into it to take care of our own. So think of all the other people who rely on it before you talk about shutting it down with out a alternative. I found out that when most people talk down social security they don't have a clue how it actually works other than you get a check when you hit retirement age. I am sorry about your Dad, Hope he is doing well despite events... I fully realize that SS does have benefits that help many people in some tough situations, and I would never insist on shutting down the current plan without a viable long term alternative for helping those who are unable to help themselves (aka children or even your dad since the means where not available to pull through without assistance) I am not proposing an every man for himself scenario here. Social Security was never intended for every man, woman and child, When FDR first signed this entitlement into Law it covered a small portion of the population, mostly unemployed. Over the years because of political pressures congress has extended the coverage time and time again. It's original purpose was to act to as a type of insurance program to help people such as your dad. When FDR introduced: 1.) That participation would be completly voluntary No longer voluntary 2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program, Now 7.65% on the first $90,000 3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year, No longer tax deductible 4.) That the money the participants put into the independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the general operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and, Under Johnson the money was moved to the General Fund and Spent
5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income. Under Clinton & Gore up to 85% of your Social Security can be taxed 6.)Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments even though they never paid a dime into it! A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson Continued This current system we have now is a complete breakdown of the original intent of the program started by FDR. Now if I pay 1% to cover the people such as your dad / children who need the assistance I am fine with that..but to pay 7.65% (and also MATCH mine and employees payments through 941 tax) of my income to cover your dad and the rich millionaire down the road who is also drawing on the same program..I have a problem with that... I am self sustainable in this society by the grace of the Good Lord , I am charitable person, and this is what many used to survive in the past, donations made by people like us, think Shriners ect. Now the government is penalizing people to make charitable donations (i.e. no more tax deductions), will I still donate, yes, can I donate as much, no, because now I have to pay tax on top of said donation which hurts the beneficiary. It's all part of making people depend solely on government for aid..politics. Back to topic..Now the congress has dipped into your and my SS m
engleclairMessage #2499 - 06/29/10 04:26 PMStay Put- Ghetto? You have been owned in this thread. Meaning, every argument you have been involved in has ultimately ended in defeat. All entitlements? Fine. Let's start with you and your family being the first to give everything up. You can start a revolution!
neohguyMessage #2500 - 06/29/10 04:30 PMI'm probably a little more liberal than most on this board but tx has a point. The Heritage Foundation, a conservative publication, has a thoughtfull article about the dangers of too much government dependency. edited: link removed, I didn't see the donate button The 2010 Index of Dependence on Government: Dramatic Spike in Dependence ProjectedPublished on June 28, 2010 by William Beach and Patrick Tyrell
great depression1Message #2501 - 06/29/10 04:32 PM[ www.cnbc.com/id/37982580] FANNIE-FREDDIE Bailout Could Cost Taxpayers $1 Trillion... [ apnews.myway.com/article/20100629/D9GKTGRO0.html] NEW CLASHES IN ATHENS...[ www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-28/greeks-stage-national-strike-to-protest-overhaul-to-pensions-labor-laws.html] Greeks Walk Off Job... [ ] CNBC Santelli: 'Stop Spending! Stop Spending! Stop Spending!' [ www.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/opinion/28krugman.html?hp=&pagewanted=print] KRUGMAN: 'We are now, I fear, in the early stages of a third depression'...
txbizownrMessage #2502 - 06/29/10 04:36 PMthis board once again only posted half my stuff...aggrevating tx
great depression1Message #2503 - 06/29/10 04:42 PMYo tex,you can use greatdepression2 for a new nick...........then everybody else can go by 3,4,5,6,7,8,etc!!!!! Just think with all the state and local govmnts broke and the fed printing money like theres no tomorro they cant enforce any of their new socialist laws..............lmao
Crying TreeMessage #2504 - 06/29/10 04:42 PMDouble Dip - Feds know it is coming or here. Money going in the wrong directions. Get a house deduction - Buy Now - What? No Job or Low paying job? Cart before the horse never works but they sure try to sell it. We really do need some middle class leadership as rich leaders got their head stuck somewhere or they are too busy counting their money to care.
djrickMessage #2505 - 06/30/10 01:36 AMLabor is the source of all wealth. But where is that wealth going? If nobody can afford to buy the stuff they're making, they're probably not making enough income. Really, how hard is that?
Veteran_LenderMessage #2506 - 06/30/10 03:20 AMLabor is the source of all wealth. But where is that wealth going? Sorry, no. Class Action Lawsuits are-- and only for the attorneys. Where's it going? To the lawyers. While we debate Right or Left, they fund the candidates. Simple as that-- lawyers run the nation right now.
BGA4444Message #2507 - 06/30/10 11:55 AMVL, I agree. Lawyers are the problem. That is one reason we will never see tort reform in the medical industry. That alone would save trillions over the next few decades. The supreme court use to have non-lawyers not anymore. I think some regular intelligent folks would be a nice addition to the high court. We are a sue sue sue based country. We also have more lawyers graduating every year. Basically we are screwed. I think you sue someone and lose you pay other person/companies legal fees and court cost. That alone would end some of the frivolous suits.
time2shareMessage #2508 - 06/30/10 06:51 PMThe good old money boys club run the game now!...Lawyers, Politicians, Doctors, Healthcare, lobby groups, Banks, Insurance and Oil. They keep the Hamster wheel spinning and all of you in it. Here is how it is all linked....The Lawyers work from both sides of the issue and keep you off balance putting the wheel in motion....The Politicians keep changing the rules every four years....More loop holes, close loop holes, more taxes, less regulation...etc. as money is transferred from corporations to campaign funds, which in turn allow loop holes to occur in the first place. Those actions give specific advantage to the highest bidder contributors... etc. And The same thing happens to the Insurance industry Look at AIG....and is main insurance loss underwriter and who benefited the most in the collapse GoldmanSaks and they got paid on all their losses from AIG who was bailed out. YOUR THE HAMSTER and the most suprising thing is that you know it and you all like it!!!!
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