Sibling Bullying

[Shooby]

news.yahoo.com/sibling-bullying-under-recognized-study-finds-115038337.html

Sibling Bullying Is Under-Recognized, Study FindsBy Catherine Winters, LiveScience Contributor |


     Parents, educators, doctors and other experts have rallied to protect children from bullies. However, bullying by brothers and sisters is often chalked up to normal sibling behavior. Now a new study finds that sibling aggression, like peer aggression, causes mental distress, which can lead to anger, depression and anxiety in the child who is being targeted.
     The researchers found that 32 percent of the children and adolescents had experienced one type of sibling aggression during the previous year. Further, the study showed that regardless of whether the aggression was mild or severe, bullied kids had significantly worse mental health than children who were not bullied.
     "There is a natural emotional intensity to sibling relationships," said lead author Corinna Jenkins Tucker, an associate professor of family studies at the University of New Hampshire. "There is a lot of love, but also the potential for a lot of conflicts." The researchers analyzed information from telephone interviews with nearly 3,600 adolescents ages 10 to 17, and with adult caregivers of children 9 and under. Each youngster had at least one sibling under 18 who was living at home. The data were obtained as part of The National Survey of Children's Exposure to Violence, which documents the incidence and prevalence of youngsters' exposure to violence.
     During the interviews, the researcher asked if the adolescent or child had been bullied by a sibling during the past year. As the researchers defined it, bullying included physical assault, property victimization (such as forcibly taking something a child was wearing, or destroying something belonging to the child), or psychological aggression (such as name-calling, or telling the child he or she wasn't wanted around). In addition, researchers asked the youngsters if they had experienced anger, depression or anxiety during the previous month.
      Eight percent of the children interviewd had experienced two or more types of sibling bullying duringthe previous year. Children who were even mildly physically assaulted by a sibling had greater mental distress than adolescents who were not assaulted. However, all the kids were similarly affected by the other types of sibling aggression.
      Tucker said that parents and other adults often downplay sibling aggression. As a result, it's "under-recognized and under-estimated," she said. "Our work is showing that in some cases, the mental distress associated with sibling aggression is similar to what we see with peer aggression. It is something to be taken seriously."  Mark E. Feinberg, a research professor at the Prevention Research Center at Penn State University, said "while our society has been working to eliminate bullying, it has not touched the relationship that is most violent — the sibling relationship."
     The findings are "are not news to those of us who have been paying attention to sibling relationships," but because the study involved a large, nationally representative sample, the findings should focusattention on sibling aggression, said Feinberg, who was not involved with the study. "The question then is, what do we do about it?" he said. "Nobody yet has the answer on how to deal with this problem."
    According to Tucker, when parents notice bullying, they should step in. "It is an opportunity for parents to act as a mediator, and teach constructive conflict skills," she said. Parenting programs, Tucker added, should include discussions about sibling bullying as well. "There is a big push now to stop aggression, particularly between peers, and we are suggesting that these programs include a focus on siblings," she said.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I have a friend who has two young girls.  One is 4 and the other is 2.  I was over there the other day and I was completely taken aback by the events.  The 4 year old is constantly grabbing toys away from the 2 year old.  She says they are "hers".  She grabbed a doll so forcefully that she knocked over the little one.  I was horrified.  My friend just sits there and says stuff like, "Oh, Katy.  Let your sister have a turn."

I normally don't have strong opinions about parenting because I don't have kids and I have no clue, but there is no way I would let this happen. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Jun 17, 2013 10:36:09 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I have a friend who has two young girls.  One is 4 and the other is 2.  I was over there the other day and I was completely taken aback by the events.  The 4 year old is constantly grabbing toys away from the 2 year old.  She says they are "hers".  She grabbed a doll so forcefully that she knocked over the little one.  I was horrified.  My friend just sits there and says stuff like, "Oh, Katy.  Let your sister have a turn."

I normally don't have strong opinions about parenting because I don't have kids and I have no clue, but there is no way I would let this happen. 

Not to pick on you, but if you were at my house for an hour or two you could have said the same thing about my two oldest.  What you wouldn't have seen all the other interactions between them.  How my DS2 pushes back and how there are times when he is the aggressor and how there are times when within 2 minutes they have it all figured out and are BFFs and what "you" might perceive as bullying was just two young kids trying to figure things out.  And how after all that fighting and "bullying" they still want to be in the same room and don't do ANYTHING without each other.

I understand what the article is saying, but it's not so black and white.  It's hard to find a balance.  I don't want to always interfere.  At the same time I don't want one child feel like he is not safe in his own home.  

[Wisconsin Beth]

My 3.5 year old is roughly the same size and weight as his 5 year old sister.  Taking toys from each other is the least of the problems.  He's physically aggressive right now so there's a lot of hitting, pushing and trying to scratch going on.  And when we intervene, he turns on us.  I really don't want to spank him because hitting in anger/high emotion is what we're trying to STOP him from doing. 

ETA - and then there are the days when they play in the basement happily for 3+ hours. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Like I said, I don't have kids so I don't know know.  But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow either of them to be aggressive with one another.  I don't think aggressive behavior ever helps to "figure things out".  I can't think there is any way in hell I'd allow any of my children to be subjected to aggressive behavior or to be the perpetrator of same.  My mother never allowed it and we seemed to grow up with the ability to figure things out without hurting someone.  Just my opinion and an uneducated one at that.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2013 10:36:09 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I have a friend who has two young girls.  One is 4 and the other is 2.  I was over there the other day and I was completely taken aback by the events.  The 4 year old is constantly grabbing toys away from the 2 year old.  She says they are "hers".  She grabbed a doll so forcefully that she knocked over the little one.  I was horrified.  My friend just sits there and says stuff like, "Oh, Katy.  Let your sister have a turn."

I normally don't have strong opinions about parenting because I don't have kids and I have no clue, but there is no way I would let this happen. 

My two girls are 4.5 and 1.5.    They do the same thing. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jun 17, 2013 10:48:41 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Like I said, I don't have kids so I don't know know.  But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow either of them to be aggressive with one another.  I don't think aggressive behavior ever helps to "figure things out".  I can't think there is any way in hell I'd allow any of my children to be subjected to aggressive behavior or to be the perpetrator of same.  My mother never allowed it and we seemed to grow up with the ability to figure things out without hurting someone.  Just my opinion and an uneducated one at that.

We don't allow them to be aggressive towards each other but unless I stay about 1 foot from DS at all times, I can't stop it.  He'll be playing happily on one side of the room, DD on the other.  He'll take off running to give her a hug.  Except he tackles her in the process and she ends up on the bottom.  It's not cut and dried is all I'm trying to say. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'm not saying sibling bullying isn't happening.  I'm sure it does.  But with toddlers and preschoolers, it's a much grayer area while they're learning to share and manage their emotions. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Jun 17, 2013 10:57:37 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I'm not saying sibling bullying isn't happening.  I'm sure it does.  But with toddlers and preschoolers, it's a much grayer area while they're learning to share and manage their emotions. 

I agree that I wouldn't refer to it as bullying.  But I'm not sure why!!

[raeoflyte]

I know I'm going to be dealing with this soon enough. Ds hates sharing with dd, and right now its just the baby toys he hasn't played with in years.

[whoisjohngalt]

Jun 17, 2013 10:48:41 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Like I said, I don't have kids so I don't know know.  But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow either of them to be aggressive with one another.  I don't think aggressive behavior ever helps to "figure things out".  I can't think there is any way in hell I'd allow any of my children to be subjected to aggressive behavior or to be the perpetrator of same.  My mother never allowed it and we seemed to grow up with the ability to figure things out without hurting someone.  Just my opinion and an uneducated one at that.

The thing is that while "aggressive behaviour" sounds oh so horrible, at that age they haven't learned to control or express their emotions in any but a very raw way.  The goal, at least my goal, is to teach them to do that and provide tools for that.  Me running after them and "telling" them don't do this and don't do that won't accomplish much beyond them stopping that particular time. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Jun 17, 2013 11:01:48 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Jun 17, 2013 10:48:41 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Like I said, I don't have kids so I don't know know.  But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow either of them to be aggressive with one another.  I don't think aggressive behavior ever helps to "figure things out".  I can't think there is any way in hell I'd allow any of my children to be subjected to aggressive behavior or to be the perpetrator of same.  My mother never allowed it and we seemed to grow up with the ability to figure things out without hurting someone.  Just my opinion and an uneducated one at that.

The thing is that while "aggressive behaviour" sounds oh so horrible, at that age they haven't learned to control or express their emotions in any but a very raw way.  The goal, at least my goal, is to teach them to do that and provide tools for that.  Me running after them and "telling" them don't do this and don't do that won't accomplish much beyond them stopping that particular time. 

With all due respect, I completely disagree.  While I don't have kids of my own, I do have neices and nephews and they know very well how to expresss themselves in ways other than aggression.  They have from a very young age.  Because they were taught that way and they were taught that aggressive behavior is not acceptable.  They certainly knew it by age 4.   And if telling them "don't do this" doesn't accomplish anything...I would fear for their future.

I remember a not-too-distant convo between my neice (who is somewhat spoiled) and her mother.  "Mom!  Brian won't give me my purple crayon!"  "You have a box of 64 crayons.  Find another one to use."  "But I want THAT one!".  "Tough shit.  Grab a red one and go color."  She went and colored.  Made me giggle.

Keep in mind, I was raised very strictly.  That's the only way I know.  Doesn't mean it's the right way. 


Of course, my neice is going to think that responding with "Tough shit." is appropriate....but that's another issue.

[thyme4change]

A few years ago, NPR put two child development experts on the same show.  The interesting part was that the two experts were polar opposites.  One was more of a "free-range" theory guy, who thought independence should be stressed more than anything else.  The other was more of an "attachment" theory guy, who thought parents were there to be intimately involved in every detail of a child's life.  I listened to the whole thing because I had a toddler and I was pregnant.  I thought both of them were overboard, but it gave me some things to think about.

Near the end of the show, they asked about sibling rivalry, and they both said "Actually, we agree in this area."  They then went on to describe how children who learn to work out both petty and significant differences with their siblings grow up with better social skills and are able to better negotiate with their peers not only in childhood but when they reach adulthood.  And they said barring extreme physical or emotional harm, brothers and sisters should be left alone to deal with their differences as much as possible.  I was sure the one guy would encourage parents to step in and teach conflict resolution - but he didn't.  So, I let my kids fight it out.  When it gets bad we always say "If you two can't work it out, I will provide a solution - and neither of you will like it."  

But, they say 8% of the kids say this is happening to them.  I bet that is a little overblown.  Sure, physical harm - kids wrestle, some more than others.  Sure, taking something of theirs - it happens, but it isn't going to emotionally damage them.  I do suspect that at least half of that 8% should get some parental intervention.  But most sibling relationships look obnoxious to adults, but are just fine.  

[whoisjohngalt]

Jun 17, 2013 11:12:16 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Jun 17, 2013 11:01:48 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

The thing is that while "aggressive behaviour" sounds oh so horrible, at that age they haven't learned to control or express their emotions in any but a very raw way.  The goal, at least my goal, is to teach them to do that and provide tools for that.  Me running after them and "telling" them don't do this and don't do that won't accomplish much beyond them stopping that particular time. 

With all due respect, I completely disagree.  While I don't have kids of my own, I do have neices and nephews and they know very well how to expresss themselves in ways other than aggression.  They have from a very young age.  Because they were taught that way and they were taught that aggressive behavior is not acceptable.  They certainly knew it by age 4.   And if telling them "don't do this" doesn't accomplish anything...I would fear for their future.

I remember a not-too-distant convo between my neice (who is somewhat spoiled) and her mother.  "Mom!  Brian won't give me my purple crayon!"  "You have a box of 64 crayons.  Find another one to use."  "But I want THAT one!".  "Tough shit.  Grab a red one and go color."  She went and colored.  Made me giggle.

Keep in mind, I was raised very strictly.  That's the only way I know.  Doesn't mean it's the right way. 

Oh well, I guess my kids are doomed, bc no way in hell am I going to be their referee 24/7, especially since 95% of the time it's not even needed.

And while I am happy for your nieces and newphews, no, my 3 yr old doesn't know how to express his emotions and certainly doesn't know how to deal with them.  And my almost 5 yr old, while is learning, is not all the way there either

Yes, you can train even a 1 yr old to behave like a monkey and shut up on request  - that doesn't mean that they are expressing themselves.  It just means that they learned that a certain response won't get them in trouble.  I am sure many parents have successfully raised their children that way, I prefer to do it differently

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Crap, hope my brother doesn't see this.  He already blames me for enough as it is.

I don't need to be told the reason his life sucks is because I ripped the head off his Ken doll in response to him ripping the legs off mine.

[thyme4change]

Don't worry Lena - just another parent who is absolutely sure you are a suck-ass parent because they spent a few hours with their sister's perfect children.  

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jun 17, 2013 11:29:02 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Crap, hope my brother doesn't see this.  He already blames me for enough as it is.

Go aggressive Drama.  It's HIS fault because he didn't play with you enough/played with you too much/scarred you for life by running around naked when your parents left you in charge/something. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Oh and btw, I probably wouldn't say "tough shit" to my kids either

[thyme4change]

Yes, I'm sure a 4-year old that thinks saying "Tough Shit" is a reasonable way to solve a problem is going to be an ideal teenager.

I'm sticking with Dark's 30-year-old rule.  When they are 30, we can all judge if you were a good parent or not.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Jun 17, 2013 11:29:35 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Don't worry Lena - just another parent who is absolutely sure you are a suck-ass parent because they spent a few hours with their sister's perfect children.  

That wasn't very nice.  I guess only people who agree with you should post or they should expect insults?  What if I said something like, "Just another parent who is too lazy to do their jobs and tries to justify their laziness."

[Wisconsin Beth]

I discovered this weekend that I could reconfigure my minivan.  If I pull out the 3rd seat, I can put one Captain's chair in the third row and leave one in the 2nd.  And if I put them on opposite sides, it might stop DS from swatting/kicking at DD and therefore stop her screams/cries/protests. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It's HIS fault because he scarred you for life by running around naked when your parents left you in charge



I don't see nudism and screaming like a banshee in that list of damaging behaviors. Or does that fall under psychological aggression?

Nobody freaking believed me because he'd be sitting with his clothes on when my parents pulled up.  I think he has supersonic hearing and knew a block away they were coming.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I dunno.  How old where you and how old was he?  And did you have to sit on the same couch his naked butt touched? 

[thyme4change]

Jun 17, 2013 11:33:25 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Jun 17, 2013 11:29:35 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Don't worry Lena - just another parent who is absolutely sure you are a suck-ass parent because they spent a few hours with their sister's perfect children.  

That wasn't very nice.  I guess only people who agree with you should post or they should expect insults?  What if I said something like, "Just another parent who is too lazy to do their jobs and tries to justify their laziness."

What you said wasn't very nice either.  You basically said that Lena was not teaching her children properly because her kids didn't behave (100% of the time) like the niece and nephew that you do not live with, so you only see them, what, a few hours a week, tops?

[whoisjohngalt]

Jun 17, 2013 11:29:35 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Don't worry Lena - just another parent who is absolutely sure you are a suck-ass parent because they spent a few hours with their sister's perfect children.  

No worries, I am fully funding their "therapy" fund!

[Green Eyed Lady]

Jun 17, 2013 11:37:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 17, 2013 11:33:25 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

That wasn't very nice.  I guess only people who agree with you should post or they should expect insults?  What if I said something like, "Just another parent who is too lazy to do their jobs and tries to justify their laziness."

What you said wasn't very nice either.  You basically said that Lena was not teaching her children properly because her kids didn't behave (100% of the time) like the niece and nephew that you do not live with, so you only see them, what, a few hours a week, tops?

That is not what I said at all.  That may have been what you read, but I put in every single post that I'm going by the way I was raised and that doesn't necessarily make it right.   Disagreement does not equal insult. 

I will post my opinions in opinion threads when I want and as long as they comply with the CoC, and just because you don't like them does not give you right to insult me or my family.  I certainly wasn't doing that to anyone.  But really, Thyme, if you are having one of those days and just need to be mean...feel free.  Just understand I'm not one of those wishy-washy posters who will just slink away. 

And a few hours a week?  Seriously?  I wish!  You have no idea what you are talking about, but don't let that stop you.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

How old where you and how old was he? And did you have to sit on the same couch his naked butt touched

He didn't touch the cushions.  He used to run along the top of the couch, kid's balance was amazing.  He'd also pull up the shades and dance naked in the window for a few minutes.

I want to say I was 11-12 which would put him around 4-5.   I don't remember I blocked most of it out.  I only saved what I can use for future embarassment purposes.

[thyme4change]

I would fear for their future.

[thyme4change]

Jun 17, 2013 11:44:18 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Jun 17, 2013 11:37:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

What you said wasn't very nice either.  You basically said that Lena was not teaching her children properly because her kids didn't behave (100% of the time) like the niece and nephew that you do not live with, so you only see them, what, a few hours a week, tops?

That is not what I said at all.  That may have been what you read, but I put in every single post that I'm going by the way I was raised and that doesn't necessarily make it right.   Disagreement does not equal insult. 

I will post my opinions in opinion threads when I want and as long as they comply with the CoC, and just because you don't like them does not give you right to insult me or my family.  I certainly wasn't doing that to anyone.  But really, Thyme, if you are having one of those days and just need to be mean...feel free.  Just understand I'm not one of those wishy-washy posters who will just slink away. 

And a few hours a week?  Seriously?  I wish!  You have no idea what you are talking about, but don't let that stop you.

I'm not being mean to anyone.  I'm just stating my opinion that someone who spends 168 hours per week with their children knows what works and what doesn't on those particular children in their particular situation, and someone who has not raised children is not really qualified to pass judgement.  If you think that is an attack on you - then so be it.  It is just my opinion, and it is also within the CoC.  Just because you don't like that opinion doesn't mean it is incorrect. 

[Peace Of Mind]

But really, Thyme, if you are having one of those days and just need to be mean...feel free. Just understand I'm not one of those wishy-washy posters who will just slink away.

Just because people don't want to turn every single fucking thread into a pissing contest doesn't mean that person is wishy-washy.  It means they just don't give a shit. 


Back to the OP - I was raised with 4 brothers.  2 older step brothers and 2 younger blood and 1/2 blood brothers.  Bullying was served for breakfast, lunch and dinner and was entertainment in the evenings, holidays and weekends.  So that's why I'm wishy-washy!