hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Jun 17, 2013 15:02:45 GMT -5
::I know several women (some in my own family) who have had to raise kids by themselves because the dads walked away. I only know one case where the mom walked away.::
Women don't walk away, they're smart enough to stick around and collect the checks that roll in from Child Support, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc.
And.....GO!
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,617
|
Post by swamp on Jun 17, 2013 15:04:24 GMT -5
::I know several women (some in my own family) who have had to raise kids by themselves because the dads walked away. I only know one case where the mom walked away.:: Women don't walk away, they're smart enough to stick around and collect the checks that roll in from Child Support, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc. And.....GO! More proof women are smarter than men. And...........GO!
|
|
HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -5
Posts: 5,395
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"3b444e"}
|
Post by HoneyBBQ on Jun 17, 2013 15:25:18 GMT -5
No offense Carl, but how can you not understand the post?
Somewhere between 40-50% of the live births in this country are to an unwed mother. Very few of these are in stable, happy relationships where the child was planned. What do you think happens to the kid when those couples break up? And even if they are married, the divorce rate is >50% of those that ARE married in the first place. Most of these children live with their mothers...
My own spouse has 2 kids with his first wife. We had to spend tens of thousands of dollars going to court to fight for his RIGHT to KEEP seeing his kids. The ex-wife had decided that since he didn't want to be married to her anymore, he didn't need to see his children any more. Which is (and was) a terrible thing because he loves his kids dearly. Most people don't have those sort of financial resources to fight like that. It's easier to just give up, sign away away your parent rights, and move on. The court system barely works in cases like these, in my opinion. It may be getting better, but there are few where Dads automatically get joint custody and/or reasonable child support rulings.
My best friend growing up lived with her Dad, which was unheard of 25 years ago... this is definitely the exception, not the rule. So many men have babies and don't care about them, unfortunately. The mothers may not care, either, but they are usually physically strapped to them more than men are.
So while I believe it may an offensive post, I also thinks it reflects reality. *flame away*
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 17, 2013 15:25:22 GMT -5
::I know several women (some in my own family) who have had to raise kids by themselves because the dads walked away. I only know one case where the mom walked away.:: Women don't walk away, they're smart enough to stick around and collect the checks that roll in from Child Support, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc. And.....GO! Those crab legs ain't gonna buy themselves!
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 17, 2013 16:20:11 GMT -5
It still just seems to me when anyone who posts on facebook anything along the lines "happy father's day to the REAL fathers" just seems like it reeks of bitterness and resentment over your daddy issues. That's what it means to me. I understand other people might have father figures who aren't their bio dads, but you can celebrate them without sounding like a resentful twit.
|
|
geenamercile
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:40:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,535
|
Post by geenamercile on Jun 17, 2013 16:41:13 GMT -5
Carl if it helps any, I honor my aunt and grandmother on mothers day. I did nothing for my mom, and I don't feel guilty about it at all.
For Fathers day I got my uncle something, but again did nothing for my dad.
|
|
Queen of Interesting Nuts
Familiar Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Feb 14, 2013 11:05:35 GMT -5
Posts: 700
|
Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on Jun 17, 2013 16:57:21 GMT -5
This making me all sad because of my DD. I think I shall ask Phoenix to marry my daughter, he sounds a heckuva lot better than baby daddy.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 17, 2013 17:04:20 GMT -5
It still just seems to me when anyone who posts on facebook anything along the lines "happy father's day to the REAL fathers" just seems like it reeks of bitterness and resentment over your daddy issues. That's what it means to me. I understand other people might have father figures who aren't their bio dads, but you can celebrate them without sounding like a resentful twit. I had a great dad. But with almost half the kids being born into unstable, uncommitted relationships and many more later being abandoned by their fathers, saying 'Happy fathers day to real fathers' is more a statement of fact than being bitter.
|
|
kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by kittensaver on Jun 17, 2013 17:14:57 GMT -5
My DB is divorced and has 50-50 joint custody with his ex. His kids are with him Wednesday-Tuesday on alternating weeks, and they live in the same neighborhood so the kids have a stable school situation. Neither pays the other child support. The custody agreement says major holidays alternate, BUT Mother's Day is always hers and Father's Day is always his, regardless of who has the kids "that week." Last Friday she took the kids two hours away to visit her father (who is ill), and completely contrary to the agreement refused to return them to DB yesterday for Father's Day. It was "too inconvenient" for her to drive them back. And she complains bitterly about DB, even though she "agrees" he is a good parent. I understand why some dads get frustrated and throw up their hands and move on. When you have someone playing you and creating non-stop drama sometimes you have to walk away from the craziness before it does you in. Too bad it's the kids that get hurt
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,996
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jun 17, 2013 17:20:49 GMT -5
Not knowing any back story kitten, that sounds completely reasonable to me if her dad is ill. But weve spent almost every holiday at the assistrd living for years since you just never know how long they will be with us.
The holiday would be more appropriately named grandfathers day (or grandmothers) since it seems like that is who the focus is anyway.
|
|
kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by kittensaver on Jun 17, 2013 17:31:32 GMT -5
Not knowing any back story kitten, that sounds completely reasonable to me if her dad is ill. But weve spent almost every holiday at the assistrd living for years since you just never know how long they will be with us. The holiday would be more appropriately named grandfathers day (or grandmothers) since it seems like that is who the focus is anyway. The back story is that she does everything in her power to "stick it" to her ex - my DB. And then turn around and blame him. It's a long-standing, dysfunctional pattern and I frankly admire him for putting up with it. It would be easier to walk away. Besides, she under SPECIFIC COURT ORDER to give the kids to him on Father's Day. She was told point-blank - in advance - not to take them out of the County this weekend (also in defiance of the court order, neither may remove the kids from the County without the written permission of the other) and she did it anyway. It's not reasonable at all. So her dad is ill - who says their dad is going to live longer than the grandfather? Accidents and heartbreak happen all the time. I call BS on "he's ill and might not live much longer." She's playing games and the kids are pawns. It sucks. She knows there is no money for him to take her to court to sanction her. She acts with self-absorbed aplomb (a brass pair) - and a vindictive streak. I'm just pointing out why some men give up - - they love their children dearly but just can't take the crap anymore. And I don't blame them. I feel bad for the kids.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,762
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 17, 2013 17:34:57 GMT -5
That sucks kitten - I hate when parents can't grow up and make their kid's needs a priority over their need to "win" or "stick it" to someone else. So shameful.
|
|
doxieluvr
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 11:28:59 GMT -5
Posts: 5,458
|
Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2013 17:43:15 GMT -5
This is a huge sore subject for me and I know I posted links to the statistics of deadbeat dads versus deadbeat moms the last time the subject came up. In my own surroundings, as someone else stated, I find it all to common that men forget they have children, once they stop sleeping with the children's mother. Of all my friends that are single parents or raised in single parent households, the father is absentee. It may not happen right away, but in a few years, after they find a new relationship, or worse, start a second family, the first children are forgotten. I have seen a few men that just revert back to being carefree, single party goers that could not tell you the first thing about their children. My daughter was a week old and my ex had to call me to ask her name. He was so self absorbed, he could not even retain her name in his pea brain. She has a very common, simple name.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 17, 2013 18:02:05 GMT -5
Well first, the statement above is an overly sentimental load of crap. No matter how warm and fuzzy your feel when you think of some child, if you don't have sufficient levels of common sense, energy, and money, you're unlikely to do a good job. My mother loves her grandchildren dearly, but I wouldn't ever leave them alone with her for any length of time, let alone let her raise them because she's reached the point where they are just too much for her. Bear in mind, this is the same woman who did a fine job raising me when my father died, but that was 25 years and 6 mini strokes ago. And when one person is doing the job of two, that person is more likely to be pushed beyond their limits.
Secondly, to get so upset every time a person dares to mention that children need fathers pretty much tells us what you think of fathers. Yes, the statement could have been directed at absent fathers instead of single mothers, but you seem to be the only one here who doesn't seem to grasp the fact the high number of women raising kids without the father in the picture is the result of large numbers of men choosing to abandon their kids. It's not like men don't know where babies come from or that birth control pills sometimes fail.
Unlike you, my mother wouldn't get upset if someone said the high numbers of children being raised without a father in the picture is a bad thing. She knew she couldn't replace what we had lost, and didn't take it as an insult to her parenting ability to admit the simple fact that two people working as a team can do a better job than one.
|
|
haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,983
|
Post by haapai on Jun 17, 2013 18:04:23 GMT -5
Yup, there definitely are some crappy mothers out there too.
I think our perception of how often women abandon, surrender, or lose custody of their children is a bit skewed. We tend to hear about divorces and child custody issues at work and women who lose their kids tend to lie about it at work.
Women who admit that they have given up physical custody are treated like dog---- no matter what the circumstances are. Women who simply lie and pretend that their parents are taking care of the kids during the day when they have actually lost custody somehow get a pass.
It's really quite sick.
|
|
Queen of Interesting Nuts
Familiar Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Feb 14, 2013 11:05:35 GMT -5
Posts: 700
|
Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on Jun 17, 2013 18:17:49 GMT -5
A friend of DD is 7 months pregnant and her and the baby's father just broke up. She has another friend that had a child at 15 and I don't think the father even knows, her parents have custody.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 10:18:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 18:54:19 GMT -5
Look I know there are crappy fathers there but seriously how about a simple: Happy Father's Day to so and so or to my step dad or just Happy Father's Day.
Why the need for " Happy Father's Day to the REAL fathers" really?
I don't read that crap on Mother's Day. Same came be said that any woman can pop out a baby an it takes a mother to raise one but how often do you read that?
Like Phoenix said it sounded bitter and resentful. Just let it be and wish Happy Father's Day to whomever you want and leave it at that.
|
|
geenamercile
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:40:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,535
|
Post by geenamercile on Jun 18, 2013 6:52:36 GMT -5
Grandparent day is in September, this year it is September 8th.
Kitten- that was a crappy thing she did.
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 18, 2013 7:03:21 GMT -5
The mom playing custody games with the ex is MUCH more common than people want to admit. Why anyone would think it's ok to use their children as pawns is beyond me.
Google fathers rights sometimes and read the results.
I'd love to be able to find some hard statistics on this.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,996
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jun 18, 2013 9:50:22 GMT -5
Not knowing any back story kitten, that sounds completely reasonable to me if her dad is ill. But weve spent almost every holiday at the assistrd living for years since you just never know how long they will be with us. The holiday would be more appropriately named grandfathers day (or grandmothers) since it seems like that is who the focus is anyway. The back story is that she does everything in her power to "stick it" to her ex - my DB. And then turn around and blame him. It's a long-standing, dysfunctional pattern and I frankly admire him for putting up with it. It would be easier to walk away. Besides, she under SPECIFIC COURT ORDER to give the kids to him on Father's Day. She was told point-blank - in advance - not to take them out of the County this weekend (also in defiance of the court order, neither may remove the kids from the County without the written permission of the other) and she did it anyway. It's not reasonable at all. So her dad is ill - who says their dad is going to live longer than the grandfather? Accidents and heartbreak happen all the time. I call BS on "he's ill and might not live much longer." She's playing games and the kids are pawns. It sucks. She knows there is no money for him to take her to court to sanction her. She acts with self-absorbed aplomb (a brass pair) - and a vindictive streak. I'm just pointing out why some men give up - - they love their children dearly but just can't take the crap anymore. And I don't blame them. I feel bad for the kids. I did preface my post, "not knowing any back story".... It would be a cold day in hell if Dh said I couldn't take the kids to visit my grandparents. But even if we divorced I just can't imagine him thinking that relationship wasn't important and I wouldn't keep him from the kids either. I'm sorry your brother is going through this, but the important thing to remember is its temporary. Do everything he can to have a relationship and relatively soon the kids will be grown and will hopefully choose to have a relationship with him then. I don't know any absentee fathers. I do know one absentee 'other mother' but I'm not sure how hard she fought. According to the divorce attorney that I office with she says that psychological parents absolutely get shared custody in our state but that probably wasn't the case 10 years ago.
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 18, 2013 9:50:46 GMT -5
The back story is that she does everything in her power to "stick it" to her ex - my DB. And then turn around and blame him. It's a long-standing, dysfunctional pattern and I frankly admire him for putting up with it. It would be easier to walk away. Besides, she under SPECIFIC COURT ORDER to give the kids to him on Father's Day. She was told point-blank - in advance - not to take them out of the County this weekend (also in defiance of the court order, neither may remove the kids from the County without the written permission of the other) and she did it anyway. It's not reasonable at all. So her dad is ill - who says their dad is going to live longer than the grandfather? Accidents and heartbreak happen all the time. I call BS on "he's ill and might not live much longer." She's playing games and the kids are pawns. It sucks. She knows there is no money for him to take her to court to sanction her. She acts with self-absorbed aplomb (a brass pair) - and a vindictive streak. I'm just pointing out why some men give up - - they love their children dearly but just can't take the crap anymore. And I don't blame them. I feel bad for the kids. Sorry kitten, this is the third time you've given fathers a pass at walking away if the X makes it "difficult". This isn't a car or a beagle, this is their children. You never walk away from your kids, ever. No matter what PITA the other parent may be. There is no "pass" for this. I don't even know what you are talking about, the only thing I can think is it's a PITA for you and you'd just as soon he walked away - because I can't understand your repeatedly saying that fathers walk away because someone makes things difficult (??!!??). It's rubbish. I strongly disagree. The courts are weighed VERY heavily in favor of the mother and there are seldom reprucussion if she "stretches" the truth to suit her whims. Why in the hell should a father have to spend tens of thousands of dollars repeatedly taking the mom back to court to force her to abide by the terms of the custody arrangement? Why is she able to make ubstantiated claims of abuse repeatedly in an effort to limit visitation when even her own kids testify there was no mistreatment? I know of a case where the bio mom is now accusing the Fathers new wife of abusing the children in an effort to get full custody (this after she first accused him, then his mother - do we see a pattern?). She can't stand the fact that he's moved on while the guy she cheated with has yet to marry her. She thinks she has the right to determine how involved their dad is with his kids lives and that is just wrong. This bullshit has been going on for over 8 years and the guy still goes to court two to three times a year to fight for his rights. Fortunately his kids are old enough to be able to tell a family court judge what is really going on. Fortunately he has the financial means to fight the false accusations but not everyone does. Your stance that women can't make dads lives hell is rubbish.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 18, 2013 10:02:42 GMT -5
The mom playing custody games with the ex is MUCH more common than people want to admit. Why anyone would think it's ok to use their children as pawns is beyond me. Google fathers rights sometimes and read the results. I'd love to be able to find some hard statistics on this. Yeah, sometimes it's really hard to break up in a civil manner. In some ways, requiring couples to do a prenup with child custody agreements before letting them get married would make a lot of sense, since so many just can't think straight when they get divorced. At this point, I'm very grateful not to have to deal with that kind of drama. Kudos to all you divorced parents who put the kids first.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,996
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jun 18, 2013 10:12:14 GMT -5
Colorado is a 50/50 state. Their has to be outright documented abuse to change that.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 18, 2013 10:15:11 GMT -5
I knew a guy who was going through this sort of thing with his ex wife. A couple of times a year, he'd have to take several PTO days and shell out thousands in lawyer fees to keep seeing his daughter. This is on top of dealing with the constant games. This guy had more money than he knew what to do with and an employer that wasn't a dick about vacation time, so he could pull it off easily. He also had the kind of dispostion where the drama of court didn't bother him. But had he barely been making enough to get by or had a more restrictive work schedule, the level of games his wife was putting on would have put him in a "Give up your daughter or become unemployed and homeless and have a nervous breakdown" situation.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 10:18:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 10:15:32 GMT -5
I haven’t seen too much on the “real fathers” front, but I have seen some variations of it in the past. I tend to see the dads posting a picture of themselves and their son at some amusement park and saying “Supposed to cut the grass today, but decided to go ride rollercoasters. I would encourage dads out there to get their priorities straight…they are only young once”
Usually posts like this come from a douche that is in a golf league on Sunday and works 12 hours a day.
|
|
HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -5
Posts: 5,395
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"3b444e"}
|
Post by HoneyBBQ on Jun 18, 2013 10:27:46 GMT -5
Colorado is a 50/50 state. Their has to be outright documented abuse to change that. I've posted before.... we (DH) had to go to court because the ex-wife decided I was "abusing" the step-daughter because we had meals with tofu in it and didn't have any chips or cookies in the house so the child was malnourished. I only wish I were kidding.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Jun 18, 2013 10:38:28 GMT -5
I understand why some dads get frustrated and throw up their hands and move on. When you have someone playing you and creating non-stop drama sometimes you have to walk away from the craziness before it does you in. Really? I don't understand throwing your hands up and moving on at all. But maybe that's because that's exactly what my father did and it was pretty awful for us. After my younger sister and I were born less than 2 years apart, my mother was exhibiting signs of full blown serious mental illness. She probably had the tendencies before that and being overwhelmed/stressed was enough to provide that last little push over the edge. I know it must have been horrible to live with someone that crazy - I know because I then had to live with her for the next 18 years - so I'm sure it must have been very unpleasant for my father and it was reasonable that he wanted a divorce. What was not at all reasonable was that even though he lived less than 45 minutes away for all my childhood, he considered it too much trouble dealing with my mother to visit or intervene. He knew we lived in a falling down shack that was later condemned, he knew we didn't always have clothes or food, he knew she was abusive, he knew we had bruises. Heck, he knew she was crazy. But that was all much too difficult to deal with. He had a good new life and felt it was enough to send a monthly child support check. While he and his new family lived in a nice house in a nice neighborhood, going to good private schools, wearing designer clothes and eating plenty of food. They didn't have a totally peaceful family life, but I never saw any of them with bruises. A few years ago I asked him why he abandoned us to that. He shrugged and said that he couldn't deal with my mother, that she was "crazy." He's right, she was, but that doesn't excuse him leaving the kids he chose to create. So, no I do not understand at all the idea of walking away from a bad situation involving your children simply because it is difficult or even crazy. Good parents don't do that. If the ex really is crazy, that's all the more reason that the dad needs to dig in and be involved.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,996
|
Post by raeoflyte on Jun 18, 2013 10:41:10 GMT -5
The courts laughed at her-right? I do realize it costs time and money to deal with that crap and wish there was a better solution.
I'm always curious how people with the worst ex's didn't see those issues before they got married.
I was very close to hating my Dh for a while, but we were lucky enough to still be a team about parenting.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Jun 18, 2013 10:48:23 GMT -5
It was. Of course this all probably plays into why I'm unwilling to wrap Christmas gifts for him. (Reference to other thread on helping grandchildren...)
|
|
doxieluvr
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 11:28:59 GMT -5
Posts: 5,458
|
Post by doxieluvr on Jun 18, 2013 11:26:49 GMT -5
Colorado is a 50/50 state. Their has to be outright documented abuse to change that. I think most states are like this. When a judge gave me sole custody, my lawyer said it was rare. When my exes rights were terminated without an adoption, the judge said he had only done so a few other times in his career. If my ex had been anywhere close to a remotely decent parent, he most likely would still be part of our lives. I thank god every day that he was able to show his true colors to the judge and we don't have to deal with him everyday.
|
|