sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on May 30, 2013 13:44:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I had not considered cell phone talking tickets, or texting tickets. I still feel that any adult should be able to do those things but don't complain when something bad happens.
What about the innocent person who ends up in the hospital for days because some dumb ass who was texting ran into them. Is that person allowed to complain A friend of mine lost her mother a couple of years ago when a girl was texting and driving, she crossed the center line and caused a head on crash that killed my friend's mom. Not two years later this same friend lost her nephew to someone texting and driving. He was walking to the local grocery store to pick up a gallon of milk when a person texting and driving jumped the curb and ran him over. So no- I don't feel that any adult needs to be texting and driving.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 30, 2013 13:49:42 GMT -5
I find it amazing that anyone would consider even not wearing one. Doesn't your car beep at you when you don't put it on?? Just because you want to die doesn't mean I want to pay more taxes for the police, ambulances, and traffic jams caused by an accident and then having to scrape your remains off the side of the road. And just because someone wants to go hiking in the mountains doesn't mean I want to pay taxes for them to be rescued when one of them falls, or when they get stuck in a storm... And just because someone wants to go snowmobiling doesn't mean I want to pay taxes for them to be pulled out of a lake when they fall through the ice... And just because someone wants to protest some injustice doesn't mean I want to pay taxes to clean up the mess and have police presence (and not to even mention the costs of riot damage)... People do a lot of stupid shit...having ridiculous regulations to try to manipulate their stupidity is just as stupid. I agree responsible people wear rheir seat belts, but you can't make people be responsible by charging them a penalty/fee (and if you do charge them, then you are a greedy tryant - at least according to the leftists in this country).
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 30, 2013 13:55:15 GMT -5
...:::"Phoenix84, this may be a recent regional thing. I think I'm in the same general area as you and I've noticed these new commercials as well.":::...
Same. Did you notice that the picture appears to be stretched horizontally, so the officer (who missed his calling as a voice over actor) does not look particularly flattering or intimidating.
jkapp makes a good point. There are all sorts of other situations where public resources are employed to help save someone from an accident or stupidity. There is only so far the law can go.
I'm not sure what the law says about whether you can only be fined if you are pulled over for something else. But the cop is going to see what the cop wants to see. Unless you have a camera on you the whole time and can prove otherwise, I don't see ever winning a "he said/she said" debate in court.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 30, 2013 13:56:17 GMT -5
Phoenix, I agree with the seatbelt laws. They protect the rest of us from having to pay for the increased public services and increased insurance rates that would result from the bad decision you and other people would make. So would mandating food stamps only be allowed to buy healthy foods...but for some reason that's taboo
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 30, 2013 13:58:26 GMT -5
I've seen a lot of adds on TV and online lately saying if you don't wear a seatbelt while driving the cops will ticket you. They say cops are out in force and can spot you not wearing a seatbelt, even at night.
There's a couple of comments/questions I'd like to pose.
1. My personal belief is that if you don't wear a seatbelt that's your problem and they shouldn't ticket you for that. What do you think?
I think that if the your state passed a law saying that all passengers and/or drivers must wear seatbelts, then you should abide by the law, regardless of what your personal opinion is. Of course, you are free to flout that law if you choose, but you shouldn't complain about any consequences, just as you shouldn't about any other laws you choose to ignore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 13:58:43 GMT -5
I have noticed newer cars do ding incessantly when you don't put your seatbelt on. Learn to wear seatbelt for your safety. And nothing wrong in law abiding citizen.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on May 30, 2013 13:58:49 GMT -5
I personally don't understand why a person wouldn't wear a seatbelt. Sure there are those very rare cases of "if I'd had a seatbelt on I would have died" but for every one of those situations there are thousands of "if he'd have been wearing a seatbelt he'd still be alive" situations.
I wear my seatbelt every single time I get in the car as does my husband. As a result my son wears his seatbelt every single time he rides in a car.
I always find it interesting that people want to be able to decide which laws apply to them and which they can just ignore. Where do you draw the line? You know that by not wearing a seatbelt you are breaking the law. Plain and simple. It may not be a law you agree with but it's still a law that you are knowingly breaking and then will bitch and moan when you get a ticket.
For the record I have had 4 facebook friends in the past two weeks whine about getting a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt and to every one of them I told them they were a moron and it was their own damn fault.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on May 30, 2013 14:01:15 GMT -5
It depends on the car. We don't have brand new cars. But the 2007 Nissan Murano only beeps once about the seat belt light - which is good since DH does not wear his. The 2006 Kia Optima beeps every 20 sec which sucks because I have to get out of the car to check the mail and I don't put my seat belt back on going up our driveway and it beeps on me twice on the way up. It is like shut up, I'm on my driveway. The '98 VW GTI didn't beep at all.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 30, 2013 14:04:05 GMT -5
In my car, everyone wears a seatbelt. It's my car, I'm the driver, and you're wearing a seatbelt regardless of what state laws say. I don't care if you don't normally do so. I don't want your mangled body on my conscience if I can avoid it. And yes, I've been known to wait in a parking lot until a passenger finally buckles up. I don't care if I'm considered a prick or an old lady or whatever. It's my car and those are my rules. Take 'em or leave 'em.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on May 30, 2013 14:04:59 GMT -5
I was pulled over a few years ago; the officer said I made an illegal u-turn too close to an intersection. (I pulled into a parking lot and then turned around to go in the opposite direction. I still don't think I did anything wrong.) He gave me a ticket for not wearing a seat belt, even though I was, because that didn't have any points and a u-turn would have been 2 or 3 points on my license.
Not wearing a seat belt is a primary offense in NJ, so you can be pulled over just for that reason. Every one in the front seat is supposed to use a seat belt; I'm not sure about adults in the back seat.
My father never wears a seat belt unless I ask him to when we will be driving on a highway.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 30, 2013 14:19:56 GMT -5
I personally don't understand why a person wouldn't wear a seatbelt. Sure there are those very rare cases of "if I'd had a seatbelt on I would have died" but for every one of those situations there are thousands of "if he'd have been wearing a seatbelt he'd still be alive" situations. Maybe it is just because part of my job is reading accident reports, but honestly you are a moron if you don't wear a seatbelt. The injury rate is significantly higher & the fatality rate is significantly higher for those that don't wear seat belts. Plus I've read a few reports where I found the death to be particularly nasty. Like the guy who was ejected & landed in a barb wire fence. Or the woman that was driving and was ejected through her passenger side window during a roll over accident - and it took a few rolls there before the body was fully ejected out of a side window And if you are in my backseat I still expect you to wear a seatbelt. I don't want your ~150 lbs or so to crash into the back of my seat in the event of an accident, increasing the likelihood I will be injured. Or worse, I don't want you to come flying up & get ejected or wedge between the drivers seat & passengers seat. And if you don't buckle you kids, you should be charged with child endangerment of some sorts. But, maybe I am biased because I've gotten to learn what happens to people that don't like wearing a seat belt.
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aprilleigh
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Post by aprilleigh on May 30, 2013 14:20:20 GMT -5
Ugh... I got a ticket a few weeks ago for not wearing a seat belt... and I wasn't driving. I always do when I drive, but never when I'm a passenger. I'm short, so the seat belt is always cutting into my neck! Anyway, the ticket was $110!! 3 years ago, my dad had his license suspended for a month for having so many seat belt tickets! There was also a failure to stop, too, I think. He thought it was great that he got to be chauffeured around for a month! But he thinks the seat belt law is a violation of his civil rights... We're in Oregon, FWIW.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on May 30, 2013 14:26:39 GMT -5
Count me as one who would not be alive if I had not been wearing my seatbelt. I would have died in my accident. Instead, I walked away from it.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 30, 2013 14:27:00 GMT -5
Ugh... I got a ticket a few weeks ago for not wearing a seat belt... and I wasn't driving. I always do when I drive, but never when I'm a passenger. I'm short, so the seat belt is always cutting into my neck! Anyway, the ticket was $110!! 3 years ago, my dad had his license suspended for a month for having so many seat belt tickets! There was also a failure to stop, too, I think. He thought it was great that he got to be chauffeured around for a month! But he thinks the seat belt law is a violation of his civil rights... We're in Oregon, FWIW. Argh, stupid PB. We were just discussing the other day who gets the ticket if passengers aren't wearing belts. The driver or the passenger in question? I guess that answers that. FWIW, you might try finding a seatbelt coozy for your cut-into-the-neck problem. I think they are supposed to help with that.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 30, 2013 14:33:15 GMT -5
My DS21 has had 2 seatbelt tickets even though he always wears his seatbelt!!! Something about being young and male means you get pulled over a lot. His first ticket was when he was 17 and driving a POS car. There was no way he could speed in it. He got pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt, but he was wearing it under his arm. So the ticket was for "Improperly wearing a seat belt". We were going to pay the fine ($20) but there is a mandatory court appearance for under 18, we misread the court time and were an hour late (OH NO!!!!), pleaded no contest and they dropped the charges ? I guess the court clerks thought that was as ridiculous as we did. He did miss school for this. His second ticket he got pulled over for speeding (he said he was) about an hour from home. The officer wrote him a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt even though he was, but no speeding ticket. I guess he was giving him a break, and figured we wouldn't challenge it. Paid the $20 fine, no points on license.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 30, 2013 14:45:05 GMT -5
How many people travel in cars each day vs. hike in the mountains, snowmobile, etc.?
I agree somewhat, on principle, but when you have millions of Americans engaging in a single activity every day, it renders it a bit more subject to regulation than some other activities.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 30, 2013 15:00:05 GMT -5
I guess this is the "rip on phoenix" thread for not always 100% wearing a seatbelt. I actually usually do, the problem I have is I often forget to put it on when going to work in the morning. I'm just not all there and often forget. I always wear it when traveling on the highway or interstate, or any trip longer than 5 miles.
I just think that sending cops on seatbelt patrol is a waste of resources, and you aren't usually endangering anyone else. I can agree with texting laws, since you're endangering others. I'm not sure about cell phones. I think you can talk on your cell and still be attentive while driving under certain conditions. I've done it before, but I always evaluate the situation first. I never talk on my cell phone while driving in heavy traffic, bad weather, or at night.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 15:05:46 GMT -5
1. My personal belief is that if you don't wear a seatbelt that's your problem and they shouldn't ticket you for that. What do you think?
2. I don't usually wear my seatbelt when going on short drives on local roads. Perhaps I should. But anyway, I've driven right by cops without a seatbelt on several occasions and they either don't notice or don't care. And it seems like a waste of police resources and time to chase down seatbelt violators. One would think they should be going after "real criminals." Do you think it's a waste of police resources? And have you, or anyone you know, been ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt?
1) I 100% agree with you. Unlike you, I've always worn my seatbelt or worn a motorcycle helmet...regardless of distance being traveled on the roads. 2) Yes...I believe it's a complete waste of resources. All it is, is a way for them to make extra revenue. WASTE OF TIME.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 15:06:08 GMT -5
I guess this is the "rip on phoenix" thread for not always 100% wearing a seatbelt. I actually usually do, the problem I have is I often forget to put it on when going to work in the morning.
Don't look at it that way Phoenix. Look at it this way your life is worth few minutes of your inconvenience.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 30, 2013 15:07:26 GMT -5
I guess this is the "rip on phoenix" thread for not always 100% wearing a seatbelt. I actually usually do, the problem I have is I often forget to put it on when going to work in the morning. I'm just not all there and often forget. I always wear it when traveling on the highway or interstate, or any trip longer than 5 miles.
I just think that sending cops on seatbelt patrol is a waste of resources, and you aren't usually endangering anyone else. I can agree with texting laws, since you're endangering others. I'm not sure about cell phones. I think you can talk on your cell and still be attentive while driving under certain conditions. I've done it before, but I always evaluate the situation first. I never talk on my cell phone while driving in heavy traffic, bad weather, or at night. If you have kids in the car, and you don't wear your seatbelt, aren't they likely to do the same? In which case, you are endangering others. Also, you are increasing the likelihood that anyone who accidentally hits you will have a death on their conscience. So you are affecting them with your choices. Very little of our choices don't affect anyone else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 15:07:54 GMT -5
The overall cost to taxpayers of your death in a traffic accident is considered to be ~1.2 Million. Considering you are far more likely to die when not wearing a seatbelt, then I would say it is in everyone's best interest that people wear their seatbelt. Where are they getting this figure from? That's seems ridiculously high when you subtract anything that insurance may pay in this instance. It just seems like a bloated "government numbers" figure to me.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 30, 2013 15:13:44 GMT -5
The overall cost to taxpayers of your death in a traffic accident is considered to be ~1.2 Million. Considering you are far more likely to die when not wearing a seatbelt, then I would say it is in everyone's best interest that people wear their seatbelt. Where are they getting this figure from? That's seems ridiculously high when you subtract anything that insurance may pay in this instance. It just seems like a bloated "government numbers" figure to me. What's the cost to the taxpayer for kids people can't afford, people who are obese, smoking, etc. Should we regulate the general public with laws preventing people form having children, eating too much, or smoking and drinking? A lot of things are in "everyone's best interest" that intelligent people have realized the government should keep their nose out of because it doesn't concern them. ::The overall cost to taxpayers of your death in a traffic accident is considered to be ~1.2 Million. Considering you are far more likely to die when not wearing a seatbelt, then I would say it is in everyone's best interest that people wear their seatbelt.:: What's the overall cost to taxpayers if you are wearing a seatbelt and so only get horribly injured in that same accident? Some of that cost I woudl bet is the same whether you die or are fine (either way police come out, they have to tow your car away, send an ambulance, etc). Do you think it actuallys costs more if you go to the hospital and die that night as compared to going to the hospital and receiving treatment for a few months?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 30, 2013 15:15:46 GMT -5
I guess this is the "rip on phoenix" thread for not always 100% wearing a seatbelt. I actually usually do, the problem I have is I often forget to put it on when going to work in the morning. I'm just not all there and often forget. I always wear it when traveling on the highway or interstate, or any trip longer than 5 miles.
I just think that sending cops on seatbelt patrol is a waste of resources, and you aren't usually endangering anyone else. I can agree with texting laws, since you're endangering others. I'm not sure about cell phones. I think you can talk on your cell and still be attentive while driving under certain conditions. I've done it before, but I always evaluate the situation first. I never talk on my cell phone while driving in heavy traffic, bad weather, or at night. Not really. We are just having a discussion which is what this board is for. We have the right to not agree with you. It doesn't mean we don't like you, it just means some of us have a different opinion. I agree that cops out LOOKING for people not wearing a seat belt is probably a bit ridiculous but I do think there a many reasons why people SHOULD wear a seat belt, but IMHO the main reason is because other people love you and if something happened to you they would be devastated. A lot of what people think is often based on their own experiences. My high school boyfriend was thrown from the car in an accident because he wasn't wearing a seat belt, this was also drunk driving related which means I have two strong opinions which came from this one accident. He was 3 miles from his home when this happened. Bad things happen even when you are just running to the convenient store to get a soda.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 15:18:43 GMT -5
Where are they getting this figure from? That's seems ridiculously high when you subtract anything that insurance may pay in this instance. It just seems like a bloated "government numbers" figure to me. What's the cost to the taxpayer for kids people can't afford, people who are obese, smoking, etc. Should we regulate the general public with laws preventing people form having children, eating too much, or smoking and drinking? are you really comparing driving - a privilege - to smoking/procreating/overeating?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2013 15:18:59 GMT -5
Where are they getting this figure from? That's seems ridiculously high when you subtract anything that insurance may pay in this instance. It just seems like a bloated "government numbers" figure to me. What's the cost to the taxpayer for kids people can't afford, people who are obese, smoking, etc. Should we regulate the general public with laws preventing people form having children, eating too much, or smoking and drinking? A lot of things are in "everyone's best interest" that intelligent people have realized the government should keep their nose out of because it doesn't concern them. ::The overall cost to taxpayers of your death in a traffic accident is considered to be ~1.2 Million. Considering you are far more likely to die when not wearing a seatbelt, then I would say it is in everyone's best interest that people wear their seatbelt.:: What's the overall cost to taxpayers if you are wearing a seatbelt and so only get horribly injured in that same accident? Some of that cost I woudl bet is the same whether you die or are fine (either way police come out, they have to tow your car away, send an ambulance, etc). Do you think it actuallys costs more if you go to the hospital and die that night as compared to going to the hospital and receiving treatment for a few months? Precisely. I'm not saying that it "may not" get expensive. It certainly could. But like you said...is there much difference than dying without a seatbelt on and not dying with a seatbelt on and having a broken hip, femur, arm, etc. + various other bruises or contusions? Is the hospital going to charge less because you lived? Doubtful. The "taxpayers" would still be responsible for cleanup of the roadways regardless of whether you live or die in an accident. The same services would be used in both events. Police, ambulance, fire department....
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 30, 2013 15:24:47 GMT -5
::are you really comparing driving - a privilege - to smoking/procreating/overeating?::
Is smoking some inalienable right? Is overeating? Is popping out as many kids as you like?
So I guess the answer is yes.
The argument was that it's fair to make a law because everyone would have a vested financial interest in keeping you from doing this action. I have a vested financial interest in stopping you from being obese, but I'm not advocating giving tickets out as a way to try to dissuade you.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on May 30, 2013 15:26:46 GMT -5
I have a vested financial interest in stopping you from being obese, but I'm not advocating giving tickets out as a way to try to dissuade you. I'd like to advocate that!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 30, 2013 15:29:39 GMT -5
The overall cost to taxpayers of your death in a traffic accident is considered to be ~1.2 Million. Considering you are far more likely to die when not wearing a seatbelt, then I would say it is in everyone's best interest that people wear their seatbelt. Where are they getting this figure from? That's seems ridiculously high when you subtract anything that insurance may pay in this instance. It just seems like a bloated "government numbers" figure to me. That is the figure my state uses for the cost of a fatality accident. We use it when calculating if a specific safety improvement is worth completing. Does the cost of the improvement outweigh the benefit of reduced accidents? My guess is that it includes all first responder's time on the accident, cost of potentially closing the road, cost to the public of the delay due to additional traffic and/or road closure, cost to file a fatality report - which is treated differently than most accident reports & has to be filed into the FARS system as well, additional costs of people like me who then write up safety reports due to fatalities, cost of the family trying to sue the City/County/State/other driver for wrongful death due to poor intersection design or whatnot, cost of govt potentially having to pay on that lawsuit, and so on. I wasn't involved in the calculation of this amount, so I only guessing. I've heard figures between 1 Million & 3 Million. We just happen to use 1.2 Million.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 30, 2013 15:30:03 GMT -5
I think the rational for forcing people to wear seatbelts is that it is easier to control your car if you're still in your seat and unhurt and if you don't have passengers flying into you. A fender bender can easily turn into something much worse if you completely loose control of your car the moment it gets bumped.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on May 30, 2013 15:31:02 GMT -5
I find it amazing that anyone would consider even not wearing one. Doesn't your car beep at you when you don't put it on?? Just because you want to die doesn't mean I want to pay more taxes for the police, ambulances, and traffic jams caused by an accident and then having to scrape your remains off the side of the road. And just because someone wants to go hiking in the mountains doesn't mean I want to pay taxes for them to be rescued when one of them falls, or when they get stuck in a storm... And just because someone wants to go snowmobiling doesn't mean I want to pay taxes for them to be pulled out of a lake when they fall through the ice... And just because someone wants to protest some injustice doesn't mean I want to pay taxes to clean up the mess and have police presence (and not to even mention the costs of riot damage)... People do a lot of stupid shit...having ridiculous regulations to try to manipulate their stupidity is just as stupid. I agree responsible people wear rheir seat belts, but you can't make people be responsible by charging them a penalty/fee (and if you do charge them, then you are a greedy tryant - at least according to the leftists in this country). This is really not an apples to apples comparison. In fact, it is laughable. You are MUCH more likely to get into a car accident then get lost when hiking or any of the other items you listed. Overall risk: Car accidents- 44,757 annual deaths 1 in 84 lifetime risk. (http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm) Each year snowmobile accidents produce approximately 200 deaths (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12671482) Most people will not snowmobile or hike in their lifetime. People are in a car several times a day, and some people spend HOURS a day in a car. There is no way to prevent a storm from coming when you are hiking. But you CAN prevent or at least actively decrease your likelihood of having your brain splattered on the pavement by wearing a seat belt.
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