Florida strikes again- on teen sex- selective prosecution?

[swamp]

Do what is appropriate in the situation. They shouldn't let their personal biases and feelings influence their decision, but I don't think it's possible. 

When I was a prosecutor, we had a mom file a complaint on her 14 year old daughters 18 year old boyfriend for engaging in sex with her. What happened was mom let the boy move in with them and share a bedroom. After. About 6 mos, the girl got pregnant so the guy broke up with her. After he broke up with her, mom wanted the guy arrested.  My boss declined to prosecute because mom was ok with it until the girl got pregnant. 

[EVT1]

In theory sure .  If that was true Brady would have never happened.  Heck- the police are supposed to seek justice as well and look how that worked through the years.  But I didn't mean it that way- I see them being paid to advocate for victims and the citizens and they should fight as hard as the defense- the justice aspect comes in with their discretion pre-trial- and of course what happens when old cases come up again with new evidence.  There are several cases I recall where prosecutors could not bring themselves to admit maybe they were wrong- not that they did their job wrong- just that they could not let it go.   

So you played both sides of the fence- what is your take on it?  Considering the law in question- what would you offer as a prosecutor and what would you recommend to your client if you were defending her?  I am kind of risk averse and would probably advise taking a plea that keeps them out of jail- but I know shit about FL law or criminal practice either for that matter-  but I am sure her lawyer knows the turf.  I am sure you agree this has no business going to trial.  Have you ever offered a better plea after a refusal when there is no new information?  Do you think the media circus will have an effect?  I am still puzzled why they want to make her a felon. 

[EVT1]

May 29, 2013 20:29:34 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Wait, what is defined as "right"

Following the letter of the law as it is written, or

Looking at individual circumstances as has been previously suggested.

Are prosecutors allowed to let personal beliefs and feelings influence their actions?

Absolutely personal beliefs and feelings influence their actions.  Depends which camp you are in whether you think it is appropriate.  You can be a legal formalist-as in this case and see no difference at all between a girlfriend  less than 4 years apart and some 50yo creep, or you can agree that the law should be flexible to handle different situations.  Kind of like the debate on the Constitution- is it a living document or not.  My view is that we adapt to the times- rigid laws are just about always a bad idea- same with mandatory sentencing.  Which way would you like it?

An example that happened here- an off duty police officer moved a car about 10 feet to make room for an ambulance during an emergency and got charged with a DUI.  You want that strict liability bullshit or do you think a judge should handle it?

[The Captain]

May 29, 2013 21:23:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

May 29, 2013 20:29:34 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Wait, what is defined as "right"

Following the letter of the law as it is written, or

Looking at individual circumstances as has been previously suggested.

Are prosecutors allowed to let personal beliefs and feelings influence their actions?

Absolutely personal beliefs and feelings influence their actions.  Depends which camp you are in whether you think it is appropriate.  You can be a legal formalist-as in this case and see no difference at all between a girlfriend  less than 4 years apart and some 50yo creep, or you can agree that the law should be flexible to handle different situations.  Kind of like the debate on the Constitution- is it a living document or not.  My view is that we adapt to the times- rigid laws are just about always a bad idea- same with mandatory sentencing.  Which way would you like it?

An example that happened here- an off duty police officer moved a car about 10 feet to make room for an ambulance during an emergency and got charged with a DUI.  You want that strict liability bullshit or do you think a judge should handle it?

I get what you're saying but this case is the PERFECT example of why we need laws. 

One situation, many different views.

Your view (as I understand it) it that its just harmless physical activity between two individuals where no one is being forced to participate. If one individual was two years older I'd agree with you.

Other's views are the 14 (or 15) is a child and the 18yo adult should have kept her hands to herself.

In general I believe 12-16 YO's are NOT capable of making mature decisions and there should be laws to protect them, you disagree. So we have laws in place to create guidance.

I am glad there is room for flexibility in general but in this case I am really bothered by the fact that the 18yo continues to believe her actions were not wrong in any way.

[zibazinski]

Me, too. She is obviously sick in the head and a predator. I have no issue with her being a lesbian but she should look for adult partners not prey on children.

[chiver78]

May 30, 2013 12:20:27 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Me, too. She is obviously sick in the head and a predator. I have no issue with her being a lesbian but she should look for adult partners not prey on children.

reactions like this bother me, seriously. do you feel the same way about any HS senior who happens to have an underclass boyfriend or girlfriend? this "predator" was a HS senior before the shit hit the proverbial fan.

[The Captain]

chiver78 - Yes.  I think any 18yo who is sexually active with a 14 (or 15) year old is a predator.  There are huge differences in maturity at those ages.  A 14yo is a child.  A 17 or 18 yo, not so much so.

When I was a HS senior NO WAY IN HELL would I think about hanging around with freshmen, let alone becoming sexually active with them.  They were ONE year out of grade school (we didn't have junior highs).

[zibazinski]

Actually, seriously, what real interest does an 18 or even 17 year old have with a 14 or 15 year old? Such different interests and its worse now than it was when I was in high school. My only interest in them was that they had cars and could drive me places.

[zibazinski]

She is seriously lucky I'm not on the jury. She's an adult who enticed a minor to run away and, after being told to stay away from said minor, continued to go after her. She obviously can't get someone her own age or someone her own age isn't Interested in her so she preys on children. 

[chiver78]

thecaptain - I did have junior HS, and while there weren't many SR/SO or SR/FR relationships, there were still enough to make me ask the question I did. obviously, I'm aware that some 14-yo's are much better equipped than others for relationships, and that some 18-yo's are probably less mature than the freshmen in their schools.

maybe it's because the town I grew up in had a lot of "townie" families and everyone seemed to know everyone else. I know I moved to town halfway through grade school, and it always felt like everyone's friends were extended family. just scanning my FB news feed, it's still like that with most of them.

[The Captain]

chiver78 - I get what you're saying.  I dunno, maybe when DD get older my thoughts will change but I just look at her and her friends and say no way in hell are they going to be ready for sex at 14. 

Personally, her father and I think she should wait until 40

[Deleted]

good luck with that     

[zibazinski]

[billisonboard]

May 30, 2013 13:02:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

She is seriously lucky I'm not on the jury. ...

Why even have a jury if you would be on it.  Seems like no need for a trial.  Just have people read some media reports and make a decision based on that.

[zibazinski]

That's true enough. I always enjoy when someone actually says they haven't heard or read anything about the accused. Uh, have you been in Tibet this whole time?

[chiver78]

May 30, 2013 15:04:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 30, 2013 13:02:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

She is seriously lucky I'm not on the jury. ...

Why even have a jury if you would be on it.  Seems like no need for a trial.  Just have people read some media reports and make a decision based on that.

^no shit. I saw this when I couldn't answer.....stoopid phone, and damn Verizon!

[EVT1]

May 30, 2013 6:38:53 GMT -5 The Captain said:

May 29, 2013 21:23:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Absolutely personal beliefs and feelings influence their actions.  Depends which camp you are in whether you think it is appropriate.  You can be a legal formalist-as in this case and see no difference at all between a girlfriend  less than 4 years apart and some 50yo creep, or you can agree that the law should be flexible to handle different situations.  Kind of like the debate on the Constitution- is it a living document or not.  My view is that we adapt to the times- rigid laws are just about always a bad idea- same with mandatory sentencing.  Which way would you like it?

An example that happened here- an off duty police officer moved a car about 10 feet to make room for an ambulance during an emergency and got charged with a DUI.  You want that strict liability bullshit or do you think a judge should handle it?

I get what you're saying but this case is the PERFECT example of why we need laws. 

One situation, many different views.

Your view (as I understand it) it that its just harmless physical activity between two individuals where no one is being forced to participate. If one individual was two years older I'd agree with you.

Other's views are the 14 (or 15) is a child and the 18yo adult should have kept her hands to herself.

In general I believe 12-16 YO's are NOT capable of making mature decisions and there should be laws to protect them, you disagree. So we have laws in place to create guidance.

I am glad there is room for flexibility in general but in this case I am really bothered by the fact that the 18yo continues to believe her actions were not wrong in any way.

Where did you get the idea that she still believes her actions were not wrong?

So you would agree then that charging a 12-16yo as an adult is always wrong?  Or sentencing them to death?  Or is that OK in some circumstances?

My view is that this is not a sexual felony and that law was not intended for this situation and needs work.  I'd be fine with a misdemeanor though I still think this is not a crime- and it sucks that it is only in some states.  Do they teach statutory rape in HS?  I doubt it- kids just hook up and only when a parent gets involved does it ever enter into the legal system.

[EVT1]

May 30, 2013 13:02:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

She is seriously lucky I'm not on the jury. She's an adult who enticed a minor to run away and, after being told to stay away from said minor, continued to go after her. She obviously can't get someone her own age or someone her own age isn't Interested in her so she preys on children. 

Where do you get this shit?  She enticed her to run away?  She can't get someone her own age?  Preys on children?  Trust me- you would never make it on a jury because you would be probably be weeded out on the questionnaire.  Bias is easy to spot.

[zibazinski]

Pot meet kettle.

[zibazinski]

How about you actually read up on it?

[EVT1]

You made the claims.

[pappyjohn99]

Interesting. I went back to review the interview of the victim's parents on the link I posted and the interview is no longer active, but the tearful pleas of the pedophile are. If anyone would like to hear the parents of the victims side, here is a link to the complete interview.

cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_7597.shtml


I tell ya, my mind is changed. These are obviously some evil people. What did it for me was when the mother said "Believe me, I will do whatever it takes to protect my child". It really turned my stomach to hear such insanity.

[EVT1]

It is a tragic situation and I believe we, as a society, and our laws have let them down," State Senator Thad Altman said.

Altman, the Republican representing Sebastian, says he'll propose a bill in the Florida Senate next year dealing with age limits in Florida sex laws.

As of now, it is illegal for someone eighteen years old to have sex with anyone younger than sixteen, regardless of consent and regardless if they go to the same school.

"You would like to think this wouldn't happen in this country, two teenagers in a moment of passion do something consensual and suddenly one is facing fifteen years in prison," Altman said.


Read more: www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state-senator-thad-altman-says-kaitlyn-hunts-situation-is-tragic-and-wants-to-change-the-law#ixzz2UtzSe5yA

Wow- I am surprised it was a republican that stood up and said something.  Good job.

[pappyjohn99]

From your link-


Altman says he sympathizes with both families involved and he hopes changing the law will keep this from happening again.

But it will be a difficult fight.

A bill trying to make changes last session died before getting to a vote.

According to TC Palm, Indian River County's other two lawmakers, Rep. Debbie Mayfiend and Senator Joe Negron, both say the law, as it is now, protects children from harm.

So it would appear the 2 of 3 lawmakers, and the majority of the people in Florida still want to prorect children from pedophiles.

[zibazinski]

Thank GOD for that. Even republicans can be wrong sometimes and this is one of those times. 

[cereb]

May 30, 2013 12:20:27 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Me, too. She is obviously sick in the head and a predator. I have no issue with her being a lesbian but she should look for adult partners not prey on children.

A predator? Sick in the head? A pedophile?


Jesus Christ.

[billisonboard]

May 30, 2013 12:20:27 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

... she should look for adult partners not prey on children.

So where should this high school senior be looking for an adult sex partner? And would any age adult be fine or would one that is more than a couple of years older be "sick in the head and a predator" to be "prey(ing) on" a high school student?

[zibazinski]

Well, she will have plenty of partners soon. Hope she enjoys it. She may actually learn from this experience.

[cereb]

Jun 1, 2013 10:53:15 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, she will have plenty of partners soon. Hope she enjoys it. She may actually learn from this experience.

I am speechless.

[EVT1]

Jun 1, 2013 9:52:09 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 30, 2013 12:20:27 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

... she should look for adult partners not prey on children.

So where should this high school senior be looking for an adult sex partner? And would any age adult be fine or would one that is more than a couple of years older be "sick in the head and a predator" to be "prey(ing) on" a high school student?

Guess she could date a teacher.


So that's at least two people who have no idea what a sexual predator is - or a pedophile either. Time to expand the jails and start locking up HS kids all across the country.......Actually calling her a pedophile or predator is an insult to anyone that has had a child victimized by a real one- it diminishes the label. I am sure real victims have a ton of sympathy for the parents of the freshman.