Florida strikes again- on teen sex- selective prosecution?

[pappyjohn99]

I work in Quality Assurance. I inspect parts. I have drawings that state the part must be with-in this tolerance. I get the stink eye from machine operators when I tell them that their parts are non-conforming because they are .0001" out of spec. Drive after having a drink and if a cop pulls you over, blow a .07 and it's goodnight, drive safe. Blow a .08 and down to the station you go. Go to the election booth when you are 17 and 364 days, sorry, no ballot for you. Go down to the local tavern the night before your 21 birthday and they will not serve you.The point being that there are limits in life. They are defined and documented. People don't get to pick and choose.

This little girl thought she could just do as she pleased and no-one would do a thing about it. Now she knows better. Her coach dumped her from the team. Her principle expelled her from the school. A prosecutor is charging her with sex crimes. She is getting exactly what she deserves. I hope that they hit her with the book so hard that she's bruised for life. 

[Virgil Showlion]

May 26, 2013 22:11:00 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

I work in Quality Assurance. I inspect parts. I have drawings that state the part must be with-in this tolerance. I get the stink eye from machine operators when I tell them that their parts are non-conforming because they are .0001" out of spec. Drive after having a drink and if a cop pulls you over, blow a .07 and it's goodnight, drive safe. Blow a .08 and down to the station you go. Go to the election booth when you are 17 and 364 days, sorry, no ballot for you. Go down to the local tavern the night before your 21 birthday and they will not serve you.The point being that there are limits in life. They are defined and documented. People don't get to pick and choose.

This little girl thought she could just do as she pleased and no-one would do a thing about it. Now she knows better. Her coach dumped her from the team. Her principle expelled her from the school. A prosecutor is charging her with sex crimes. She is getting exactly what she deserves. I hope that they hit her with the book so hard that she's bruised for life. 

I'm not quite this set against her, but admit it's hard to sympathize when she gave the girl's parents a big eff you and expected no ramifications.

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2013 22:11:00 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

I work in Quality Assurance. I inspect parts. I have drawings that state the part must be with-in this tolerance. I get the stink eye from machine operators when I tell them that their parts are non-conforming because they are .0001" out of spec. ...I hope that they hit her with the book so hard that she's bruised for life. 

So is this what you do when they give you the stink eye?  Or do you just tell them to get it right?

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2013 22:11:00 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

... Go down to the local tavern the night before your 21 birthday and they will not serve you. ... I hope that they hit her with the book so hard that she's bruised for life.

[billisonboard]

May 26, 2013 22:11:00 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

... Blow a .08 and down to the station you go. ... I hope that they hit her with the book so hard that she's bruised for life. 

[pappyjohn99]

lol Bill. Since the book is figurative. I expect the bruise will be as well. But I think this uppity cheerleader needs a tune-up. Her parents as well.

[EVT1]

Uppity?  I guess you weren't in any relationships in HS.  Would you really listen to a parent when it comes to someone you were involved with? 
Never snuck a girl into your bedroom or snuck into one of theirs? 

The affidavit:

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/21/us/hunt-arrest-affidavit.html?_r=0


So it appears the parents called the cops, the cops took the statement of the 'victim', and then did a controlled phone call where the 'victim' got her to admit the offending conduct.  Then they arrested her and she made a statement admitting to it.

Looks like the law itself sucks on this.  Judging by the sentencing guidelines this crime is in the same severity list as DUI manslaughter, human trafficking, armed burglary with assault and battery, disharging a destructive device with bodily injury, armed robbery, drug trafficking   Absolutely no difference if she was 18 or 48. 

Starting to think the prosecutors suck ass on this- they need to back down.

I can see it now- Zimmerman walks and they send her up for 5 years   That would be a real FL outcome.   Anything that state touches turns to shit.   

[billisonboard]

There are very mature individuals who have been on the planet for 14 years.  And there are very immature ones as well.  The same is true of 18 year olds.  There are times that it would be appropriate to sentence an 18 year old involved in a sexual relationship with a 14 year old very severely.  There are times that it wouldn't be appropriate.  Seeing this particular case only through a media lens, I have no idea what is appropriate in regards to these two people.  I don't know if the book should be thrown at or out.  I have to hope that those who are directly involved make the best decision.

[pappyjohn99]

Yes, uppity. She blew off the parents of the victim. She lied thru her teeth on the Today show. She's lying all over the "Free Kate" facebook page. I hope they take the whole family down a notch. They ain't special.

[billisonboard]

May 27, 2013 13:00:58 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Yes, uppity. She blew off the parents of the victim. She lied thru her teeth on the Today show. She's lying all over the "Free Kate" facebook page. I hope they take the whole family down a notch. They ain't special.

You have a clear and total understanding of "truth" in this situation based on what exactly?

[pappyjohn99]

The facts of the case. 

[billisonboard]

I am on the other end of the country so I don't have any of the facts of the case.  Glad that you are there so that you can get them.

[Virgil Showlion]

It's unfortunate, but even if it so happens that the 14-year-old and the 18-year-old have exactly the same maturity, I'd hope for a conviction simply to establish a precedent that if a girl's parents say "Stay the heck away from our daughter," you stay the heck away from their daughter.

Time was, if Joe 18 went after Jane 14 expressly against her parents' wishes, Joe 'd be lucky to make it through the week without an axe in his back and the community lining up to shake Dad's hand for doing it.

[billisonboard]

I agree that a conviction would be appropriate since there seems to be no question that there was a sexual relationship.  It is the severity of the sentence that the maturity levels matter, IM(not so)HO of course.

[pappyjohn99]

Maturity of the victim has no bearing in the case. The maturity of the perpetrator and her parents are obvious. They are muddying the water on the news and social media to try to win in the court of public opinion. As I said in post #90, life is full of arbitrary cut offs. Man up and take the consequences. IMO of course. 

[Tennesseer]

May 27, 2013 15:32:42 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Maturity of the victim has no bearing in the case. The maturity of the perpetrator and her parents are obvious. They are muddying the water on the news and social media to try to win in the court of public opinion. As I said in post #90, life is full of arbitrary cut offs. Man up and take the consequences. IMO of course. 

Shades of George Zimmerman, his lawyers and his supporters.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

I think there is an issue with a law like this simply because I'm not sure this type of punishment is appropriate for those within the same peer group.  However, I don't think the charges are due to the sexual orientation as so many are attempting to make this out to be either.

[billisonboard]

A 14 year old can be a more than willing participant or a manipulated innocent in a relationship with a eighteen year old classmate.  The older student can be someone struggling to get a handle on their sexuality or a predator.  This comes into play in determining the appropriate consequence for the eighteen year old.

[Tennesseer]

May 27, 2013 15:52:01 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

I think there is an issue with a law like this simply because I'm not sure this type of punishment is appropriate for those within the same peer group.  However, I don't think the charges are due to the sexual orientation as so many are attempting to make this out to be either.

I don't believe the charges are due to sexual orientation either. It just so happens in this high school relationship case both parties are female. I wonder if in the back of Hunt supporters' minds, State v. Limon looms. Fortunately, SCOTUS remanded that case back to Kansas for review and its eventual overturn.

[pappyjohn99]

Shades of George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin, his lawyers and his supporters.

Fixed. 

[billisonboard]

May 27, 2013 16:22:10 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Shades of George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin, his lawyers and his supporters.

Fixed. 

Trayvon Martin is dead and he has no lawyers

[Tennesseer]

May 27, 2013 16:22:10 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

Shades of George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman, his lawyers and his supporters.

Fixed. 

Fixed again.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

May 27, 2013 15:13:21 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

It's unfortunate, but even if it so happens that the 14-year-old and the 18-year-old have exactly the same maturity, I'd hope for a conviction simply to establish a precedent that if a girl's parents say "Stay the heck away from our daughter," you stay the heck away from their daughter.

Time was, if Joe 18 went after Jane 14 expressly against her parents' wishes, Joe 'd be lucky to make it through the week without an axe in his back and the community lining up to shake Dad's hand for doing it.

My issues with this is that teens don't always do what their parents say...especially when it comes to dating.  I'm not sure that punishing somebody in the same peer group, especially with the possibility of labeling them a "sex offender" for life is the appropriate thing to do.  I'm not sure involving the law in this case is the appropriate thing to do as long as it was consentual. 

[pappyjohn99]

Trayvon Martin is dead and he has no lawyers.

True, but Jessie and Al sure stirred up his supporters. There wouldn't charges if that wasn't the case. But none of this has anything to do with the OP.

[EVT1]

May 27, 2013 15:51:51 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

I think there is an issue with a law like this simply because I'm not sure this type of punishment is appropriate for those within the same peer group.  However, I don't think the charges are due to the sexual orientation as so many are attempting to make this out to be either.

The problem with the law is it makes no difference what the ages are.  What I want to know is what usually happens in these cases in that particular system- then we will see if she is being treated differently.  Maybe the boys and girls are treated differently as well- I'd like to know that to.

What I do know is that it is not the norm to attempt to convict teenagers in consensual HS relationships with felonies.

They should have let her plead out to a misdemeanor and probation or even used diversion so this doesn't follow her for life.

[mmhmm]

May 27, 2013 13:23:00 GMT -5 pappyjohn99 said:

The facts of the case. 

I've pretty much stayed out of this discussion because I DON'T have the facts of the case.  Unless you're directly involved, pappyjohn, neither do you.

[pappyjohn99]

Oh my, a voice from a high horse. 

I can read a police report. I can watch the interviews. I can draw conclusions. 

If you don't care to engage, then don't. 

[mmhmm]

If there's a high horse around here, pappyjohn, it's not mine.  I'm not the one claiming to know the "facts of this case". How often have you seen a case go to court only to have everything that's been touted in the news, reports, and interviews be proven incorrect?  It's not a rare occurrence.  I'm sorry, but you do not have the facts in this case.  You'll believe what you wish to believe; however, not everyone chooses to "engage" in ignorance of the facts.  Some of us prefer to wait a bit until we have more information, or until a court makes a decision before we pronounce exactly how things "really are".

[pappyjohn99]

Some of us prefer to wait a bit until we have more information, or until a court makes a decision before we pronounce exactly how things "really are".

Excellent, talk to you later.

[EVT1]

For those who did not watch the interviews or read the affidavit:

The only facts for sure is that they were both in the same school, played on the basketball team, were a senior and a freshman, the mother of the older girl stated she knew they were 'dating' but claims she did not know about any sex.

The conduct happened when one was 18, the other 14- and was admitted to by both.  The 18yo turned 18 on August 14- the conduct occured sometime around Christmas.  The police interview was February 15.  So the parents did not 'wait to file charges'  IT is also reported but not verifiable that the 14yo turned 15 sometime around February- which makes no difference as far as the law goes but puts their age difference at around 3 years 2 months.

The parents of the 14yo tried to break it up, the 14yo didn't take it so well and began to 'act out', and at one point ran away and spent the night with her girlfriend, at some point later the police were involved and took a statement from the 14yo, had her call her girlfriend and get her to recount their relationship on the phone (which is a nasty thing to do to both of them)- arrested her and she made a statement admitting to the conduct.

The conduct- 2 incidents- 1) the 18yo fingered the 14yo at school 2) during the run away sleepover there was that plus oral sex and a vibrator involved with both.

Apparently the parents of the 14yo never contacted the parents of the 18yo- but they claim they warned her to stay away.


In FL this is a heavy felony, in other states it is not a crime.  She did the crime as the law is written- my question is taking into account prosecutorial discretion is she being railroaded?  I think she is.

I wonder how Pappy would feel about it if it was his daughter.....

Update- Formal Plea offer that was offered: i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/05/25/indianriverreport.pdf

Not sure this was a smart move to not take it.  Too much heat on this case- and now the parents of the victim are digging in for a fight and now their daughter gets to testify against her girlfriend. Way to fuck up the lives of two people assholes- settle this shit now before the big spectacle.