Equal opportunity stupidity...?update

[Abby Normal]

My son has an early birthday, and one of my biggest fears is that he will be 18  shortly after becoming a Senior in highschool and therefor dating "younger" girls. If the girls parents don't like him, he could be in trouble.

But I admit, I never thought of it in this context. 

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/20/18376456-florida-mom-alleges-anti-gay-bias-after-daughter-expelled-arrested?lite


A teenage girl in Florida faces criminal charges for an alleged sexual relationship with a 15-year-old female student in a case the defendant’s family says stems from anti-gay prejudice.

Kaitlyn Hunt, 18, has been charged with two felony counts of “lewd and lascivious battery of a child 12 to 16 years old” related to conduct with a minor she met while they were both students at Sebastian River High School in Sebastian, Fla., according to an Indian River County Sheriff's Office arrest affidavit obtained by NBC News

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

15 to me does sound awfully young to date whether it be girl or guy.

[Sum Dum Gai]

My son has an early birthday, and one of my biggest fears is that he will be 18  shortly after becoming a Senior in highschool and therefor dating "younger" girls. If the girls parents don't like him, he could be in trouble.

Give him two tenth birthdays, and have him lie about his age by a year.  He can go back to his real age in college.

[Sum Dum Gai]

15 to me does sound awfully young to date whether it be girl or guy.

LOL!  Most of my team was dating and they were 12 and 13.  That freaked me out, but 15 and 16 sounds normal.

[midjd]

I was 14 when I started dating DH. Good thing he's only 4 months older than me.   I had wondered what would happen in a situation like this... SIL and her girlfriend have a similar age gap and began dating at 14/17.

I feel badly for both girls involved. Regardless of what the 15yo's parents want to think, very unlikely the 18yo "turned their daughter gay." The 18yo will end up with a criminal record, and the 15yo is probably unlikely to ever have a relationship that meets her parents' approval.

Child exploitation is a horrible crime and should be harshly dealt with, but IMO a 17 or 18yo dating a 14 or 15yo doesn't qualify...regardless of gender.

[Pants]

agile - see if your state has "romeo and Juliet" laws - many states have exemptions for consensual relationships for kids with a certain age difference, even if one of them is over 18 and one isn't. Make sure your son knows too!

[Deleted]

Bsbound is right . . . a lot of state's have exemptions if the girl is less than two years younger.

But . . . this is still a great time to talk with your son about consequences.  Quite honestly, high school students shouldn't be sexually active.  That isn't prudery, but common sense.  Forget the law.  The girl can end up pregnant, he can get a STD, whatever.

He has his whole life in front of him for sex.  I'd talk to my son about keeping it in his pants until he was older.

That said, when my son and his girlfriend were about seventeen, we got a call from the local police.  It seems that they were doing at least "heavy petting" in a car parked at the small, local municipal airport.  The officer took their drivers' license away and told them their parents had to retrieve them.  He claimed they were having sex; they claimed she had her top off.  We wondered how long he stood there looking. 

It totally annoyed us that we had to go retrieve our son's license along with receiving a lecture, but they gave us my now DIL's at the same time.  Evidently, her mother had said she wouldn't come to retrieve it and she would sue or something if he continued to slander her daughter's reputation.  Her mother owned a partial interest in the airplane so it wasn't trespassing.

Totally reverse double standard!  We still make jokes about "Officer Woods" in our family.  His wife ran for City Council, and we met her.  We made jokes about him there, too, that totally whizzed over her head.

[Sum Dum Gai]

It seems that they were doing at least "heavy petting" in a car parked at the small, local municipal airport.

Car parked in an out of the way place, two teenagers inside, she's got her top off completely, there was a hell of a lot more going on there than heavy petting.  Just sayin.

[Pants]

May 20, 2013 21:20:09 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Bsbound is right . . . a lot of state's have exemptions if the girl is less than two years younger.

But . . . this is still a great time to talk with your son about consequences.  Quite honestly, high school students shouldn't be sexually active.  That isn't prudery, but common sense.  Forget the law.  The girl can end up pregnant, he can get a STD, whatever.

He has his whole life in front of him for sex.  I'd talk to my son about keeping it in his pants until he was older.

That said, when my son and his girlfriend were about seventeen, we got a call from the local police.  It seems that they were doing at least "heavy petting" in a car parked at the small, local municipal airport.  The officer took their drivers' license away and told them their parents had to retrieve them.  He claimed they were having sex; they claimed she had her top off.  We wondered how long he stood there looking. 

It totally annoyed us that we had to go retrieve our son's license along with receiving a lecture, but they gave us my now DIL's at the same time.  Evidently, her mother had said she wouldn't come to retrieve it and she would sue or something if he continued to slander her daughter's reputation.  Her mother owned a partial interest in the airplane so it wasn't trespassing.

Totally reverse double standard!  We still make jokes about "Officer Woods" in our family.  His wife ran for City Council, and we met her.  We made jokes about him there, too, that totally whizzed over her head.

I disagree that saying high school students shouldn't be sexually active isn't prudery. Probably 80% of the kids I knew in high school had sex before they graduated.

[alabamagal]

I was just thankful that my kids never dated in high school. It was not prohibited, but they went to a very small conservative Baptist school. I think mainly it was that the school was so small that there really were not that many potential dates, and they have gone to school with a lot of them since kindergarden. All three of them started dating immediately at college (my youngest met his gf at orientation!)

Actually my youngest was "friends" with a girl and spent a lot of time with her summer after he graduated. He was 17 and she was 15 or 16. He told me they were going to an R-rated movie and I realized how young she was. But he said that her mom bought her the tickets online, so she was ok with it.

Since both my boys were the youngest in their class, they were both 17 when they graduated high school. Both of them are now dating "older women" - girls who are in their college class but older by a couple of months.

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

Yeah 15 does sound normal but still prefer 16, it is the age of well something I don't know but still sounds better to me. I hate to be a ninny but apart from the apparent witch hunt we have to go with the law.

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

I wonder if my feelings are because all though I am sure my kids went out on dates they didn't bring home anyone to meet us, so I assume they were all casual relationships not long term. DS is 21, I have to assume by now he isn't a virgin but he has never brought a girl home to meet us.

[midjd]

I hate to be a ninny but apart from the apparent witch hunt we have to go with the law.

I agree, but if the law is doing more harm than good - requiring otherwise law-abiding teens to register as sex offenders for engaging in a consensual sexual relationship - it should be amended. Romeo & Juliet exceptions are a good start.

True sex offenders are the lowest of the low and the states' sex offender registries are a great tool. But IMO prosecuting statutory rapists and including them on those registries dilutes their power. Now when you see someone on the list in his/her late teens, early twenties, you have to ask yourself "well is s/he a REAL predator or not?"

[Pants]

May 21, 2013 8:59:03 GMT -5 @tbird said:

This really worried me alot with DS being extremely good looking (his father was good for something ) and DD's friends mooning over him all the time.  These girls were 5ish years younger than him on average.  When 10/11/12 yos were trying to flirt with him at 16/17, it was just kind of a joke.  But once the girls got to be 13/14/15, they were more persistent, I was worried.  A few seemed to court DD's friendship just for access to DS.....

He was never interested at all and always found these girls highly annoying, but I had a few frank talks with him just in case and when he turned 18 I told him, no matter what - never get involved with a girl more than a year younger than you, and if for some reason you do, you have to wait till she's 18.

It never came up, so maybe I was just paranoid.  But one thing that got me worried was when I was checking out the sex offender database in our new neighborhood.  There were a lot of young guys who got labeled as sex offenders when they were 18 with a 15 yo.  I could see these being true sex offender cases, and I could also see these being older boyfriend the parents didn't like.

Frankly there were too many of them for them to all be true sex offenders, imho.

In terms of the OP, I would not like any 18 yo having a sexual relationship with my 15 (genders not an issue) as the power dynamic of 3 years at that point has the potential for the younger one to be taken advantage of/pushed into things.  But it really depends on the personalities of the 18 and 15 yo.  You may have a slightly mature 15 and a slightly immature 18 yo and they are a good match.  Then you may have a manipulative 18 yo and slightly immature 15 yo and the dynamic becomes abusive.

Yup, Illinois rejected the Romeo and Juliet law in 2011.

[thyme4change]

When I was 14, I had a boyfriend who was 17, and then turned 18 (and then later, I turned 15.)  He would do anything I said.  He was just that nice of a guy.  Anything.  I told him what to wear, and where we would go, he even bought an album he didn't like, because I wanted it.  Poor thing.

[Queen of Interesting Nuts]

Oh yes, true sex offenders are disgusting. I think it is a witch hunt but I also think if the roles were reversed (meaning it was a boy/boy or boy/girl) with the same parents it would probably be just the same. The problem here is the parents and I hope some authority can intervene and let the parents know they are being assholes because this girl is NOT the problem with our nasty sexual predators.

[hoops902]

::Oh yes, true sex offenders are disgusting.::

I guess I would think that if it's ok for an 18 year old to have sex with a 15 year old, it's ok for a 45 year old to have sex with a 15 year old.  Either a 15 year old can consent to sex with an adult, or they can't. 

::The problem here is the parents and I hope some authority can intervene and let the parents know they are being assholes because this girl is NOT the problem with our nasty sexual predators.::

The parents are assholes for not wanting an adult to have sex with their 15 year old daughter?

In general the difference between 15 and 18 is pretty large. 

[happyhoix]

The laws do need to be amended to allow an 18 year old to date a 16 or 17 year old - that isn't a sex crime.

I feel sorry for the young girl in this case, if her parents think the older girl 'made' her gay, they will try all kinds of threats to try to 'change' her back. Her life will be hard until she gets old enough she can move away.

 

[muttleynfelix]

I guess I would think that if it's ok for an 18 year old to have sex with a 15 year old, it's ok for a 45 year old to have sex with a 15 year old. Either a 15 year old can consent to sex with an adult, or they can't.

WTF? You can't see the difference between a 15 yo having sex with someone 3 years older or 30 years older? (male-female, female-male, male-male, female-female - which sex is older or younger it does not matter). An 18 yo may still be in high school with a 15 yo, possibly even have classes with that 15 yo, play on the same sports teams.  That is why Romeo and Juliet laws exist.  Because it shouldn't be legal one day for 2 teens to have sex and then next day when one turns 18 illegal.

[bookkeeper]

I sat my two sons down with a box of condoms and had a talk about the consequences of having sex in high school.

Don't wait for something to happen before you have the "sex talk" with your kids.  I pointed out what the law said about age differences and how unwanted pregnancies would affect them in the short and long term.  I laid out my expectations early on and so far so good.  If I had a daughter, I would have included the morning after pill in the supplies and discussion.

Sex is everywhere around young people.  On the TV, the video games, in the music and on the internet.  Young people need to be taught how to handle the responsibility that comes with sex, much like learning how to drive a car.

[hoops902]

::An 18 yo may still be in high school with a 15 yo, possibly even have classes with that 15 yo, play on the same sports teams.::

The mere fact that an adult is AROUND a minor doesn't make it ok for that adult to have sex with that minor.

[muttleynfelix]

May 21, 2013 10:20:08 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::An 18 yo may still be in high school with a 15 yo, possibly even have classes with that 15 yo, play on the same sports teams.::

The mere fact that an adult is AROUND a minor doesn't make it ok for that adult to have sex with that minor.

So what you are saying is that the day before a teen turns 18, it is ok for them to have sex with a younger teen, but the next day it is illegal and that is fine? 

[milee]

May 21, 2013 10:16:15 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

I sat my two sons down with a box of condoms and had a talk about the consequences of having sex in high school.

Don't wait for something to happen before you have the "sex talk" with your kids.  I pointed out what the law said about age differences and how unwanted pregnancies would affect them in the short and long term.  I laid out my expectations early on and so far so good.  If I had a daughter, I would have included the morning after pill in the supplies and discussion.

Sex is everywhere around young people.  On the TV, the video games, in the music and on the internet.  Young people need to be taught how to handle the responsibility that comes with sex, much like learning how to drive a car.

Not just this, but you also might want to talk to kids about how technology can put them at risk as well.  Sexting is very popular right now.  Especially if you have a kid who is dating a younger kid, there's huge risk there.  I've explained to my sons that if their girlfriend is under 18 and she sends you a topless/naked picture of herself, they need to be careful not to ever forward that to anyone else and that it's best to delete it.  Boys have been charged with possession of child pornography for less. 

I also disabled the webcams on their computers so that any Skyping or other webcam activity has to happen in the main family room under our supervision.

It's hard to be an old fogey and trying to keep up with all the new ways in which kids can get into trouble.  [img]http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png[/img]

[hoops902]

May 21, 2013 10:23:14 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

May 21, 2013 10:20:08 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::An 18 yo may still be in high school with a 15 yo, possibly even have classes with that 15 yo, play on the same sports teams.::

The mere fact that an adult is AROUND a minor doesn't make it ok for that adult to have sex with that minor.

So what you are saying is that the day before a teen turns 18, it is ok for them to have sex with a younger teen, but the next day it is illegal and that is fine? 

Yep, just like today it's illegal for me to have sex with someone 17 years 364 days (obviously assuming 18 is the age of consent), but tomorrow, that would be ok.

And I say it's "ok" the day before the teen turns 18 presuming that other laws are also followed (i.e.  it might not be ok for someone 17 years 364 days to have sex with a 13 year old in some places).

Assuming those are the laws.  I don't have a problem with laws that say "if you're over 18 and have sex with someone less than x years younger than you, then it's ok".  I have a problem with people saying the parents are the problem when they're trying to enforce illegal sexual contact between their minor child and an adult.  If the contact isn't illegal, I don't have a problem with it.  But if the law says 18, then having sex with an 18 year old is no different at all from having sex with a 60 year old.  It's illegal.

[Abby Normal]

May 20, 2013 18:53:14 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

My son has an early birthday, and one of my biggest fears is that he will be 18  shortly after becoming a Senior in highschool and therefor dating "younger" girls. If the girls parents don't like him, he could be in trouble.

Give him two tenth birthdays, and have him lie about his age by a year.  He can go back to his real age in college.

He's only 11 now.  But he's a giant. He'd never pass for a year younger. A year older - easily.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Oy.  This kind of stuff really scares me.

ODS is a February birthday AND repeated Kindergarten (a complete waste of time but that's a whole 'nother thread).

He will be almost 19.5 when he graduates from high school.  

We've already started talking about age differences even as it relates to other legal troubles -- he was 16 years old sometimes as much as 2 years ahead of some of his buds -- for some misdemeanors, HE would be charged as an adult while his friends would get hands slapped as juveniles.

Now, mind you, he is a good kid with a really good head on his shoulders.  But, we all did stupid things with our friends in high school.  I fully expect him to do stupid things with his friends in high school.  As I explained to him, the problem is, you'll pay more for those stupid things than your friends.  

The dating stuff is even more trouble.  Many states set 16 as the age when children (and they are still children) can "legally" have sex.  So, it's not unlikely to be 16 with a 14 or 15 year old boyfriend/girlfriend.  

Oy.  Just oy.  

When did parenting get so hard?   

[973beachbum]

There is a close-in-age exception to the NJ legal Age of Consent - minors aged 13, 14 and 15 may legally engage in sexual activities with persons up to 4 years older than them (For example, it is lawful for a 14-year-old male or female to engage in sex with a person up to 18 years of age).

New Jersey Close-In-Age Exemption

New Jersey has a close-in-age exemption, also known as a "Romeo and Juliet law", to the legal age of consent. This provision allows partners who are close in age, or both under the New Jersey age of consent, to engage in consensual sex without fear of prosecution under New Jersey age of consent regulations. For more information, read about close-in-age exemptions.

Yeah in NJ, it may not make mom and dad happy. but it wouldn't be a crime.  I will say there was a classmate of my DD's when she was a freshmen who dated a senior.  I thought it was icky then thinking she was 14 and he was, or turning 18 and then recently I found out he turned 19 in his senior year, not 18.  She turned 15 so it isn't a legal thing but it still seemed like too much diffence in ages to me.  Her parents didn't seem to mind though.  

[Sum Dum Gai]

A couple of the girls I coached were 12 and dating high school boys.  Totally freaked me out.  I know that a few of them were sexually active already.  I'd lose my shit if my 7th grade daughter brought home her high school sophomore boyfriend.  One of the parents sat there and talked about her daughter dating, and how serious their relationship was, like it was the most normal thing in the world.  I managed to keep my mouth shut and I guess I did a decent job keeping my "what the hell is wrong with you" face from showing.  Hopefully they're at least using protection.  Can you imagine a pregnant 8th grader?  That's some messed up stuff right there.

[thyme4change]

May 21, 2013 14:03:23 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

A couple of the girls I coached were 12 and dating high school boys.  Totally freaked me out.  I know that a few of them were sexually active already.  I'd lose my shit if my 7th grade daughter brought home her high school sophomore boyfriend.  One of the parents sat there and talked about her daughter dating, and how serious their relationship was, like it was the most normal thing in the world.  I managed to keep my mouth shut and I guess I did a decent job keeping my "what the hell is wrong with you" face from showing.

The school my daughter will be going to is 5th grade thru high school.  When I went down to turn in paperwork, the very first person I saw on campus was a senior boy - probably 18.  My 10 YO daughter will essentially be available to that age group starting in a few months.  My daughter isn't physically mature, so the age difference seems quite huge, and she probably won't attract any attention, however there is a girl in her class who looks 15 - easily.  She has a really cool style and is a beautiful girl.  I could see her ending up in a scenario that might be difficult for some parents.  

[muttleynfelix]

May 21, 2013 14:03:23 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

A couple of the girls I coached were 12 and dating high school boys.  Totally freaked me out.  I know that a few of them were sexually active already.  I'd lose my shit if my 7th grade daughter brought home her high school sophomore boyfriend.  One of the parents sat there and talked about her daughter dating, and how serious their relationship was, like it was the most normal thing in the world.  I managed to keep my mouth shut and I guess I did a decent job keeping my "what the hell is wrong with you" face from showing.  Hopefully they're at least using protection.  Can you imagine a pregnant 8th grader?  That's some messed up stuff right there.

Yeah. When I was a 6th grader an 8th grader at my school had a baby the year before!  It was Podunkville - although our school system did a better job at sex education than a lot of the neighboring school systems (at least by teen pregnancy rates, we were also slightly higher up the socioeconomic scale than some neighboring towns)- but there she was a pregnant middle schooler.

The school my daughter will be going to is 5th grade thru high school.

That was something I didn't think about. Our school district, the jr high and high school are combined - grades 7-12 all in one building and only 300 students, so I would guess you know everyone you want to know (meaning 7th graders probably know who everyone is, seniors probably don't if they don't want to).