Local florist refuses to service same-sex marriage

[Tennesseer]

Why yes they are and this woman is a perfect example.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2013 14:30:20 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Yes, it was me. Okay, you feel this way because of your beliefs. I respect that. Lots and lots and lots of folks over the ages have felt this way. But where is the recognition that the persons today (gays) who are being shunned or denied rights because of your ("the big you" - Christians) beliefs also feel this way? And worse yet, it is because of who they are (born gay), not something they chose. And it is your "religious tradition" (for lack of a better phrase) that is institutionalized the denial and shunning in this country to keep it that way.

NOT NOT NOT trying to be sarcastic. Really trying to understand.

Thank you heart2heart for your dialogue. 

I am not fully understanding your question concerning recognition?--  Our bible, the word of God to whomever believe it is so, recognizes this truth, (for us). Not really sure if my response is what you were aiming for?

Let me see if I can, with all sincerity explain our position on same sex same and same sex marriage. We believe this particular sin is a severe abhorrence to the fabric of life and an abominably abnormal acting out of sin. First against God, the creator of man and the earth and all that fills the earth and to us, the believer. That will never change. 

Can we agree that there are greater depths or degrees of what we as a people find flat out wrong sinful criminal, and more repulsive than other ills in life? For instance, we, the believer feel the sin and the crime of pedophilia is without question against the very grain of what God purposed the human body for.. Most people feel repulsed by the act of pedophilia whether they believe our God says it is sinful or not. That, plus other ill uses of the body. I only make mention of the above for comparison sake to make a point of how grieved and vexed the abnormal acts effects the believer. 

Now.. I want to go on record that one of my children live the gay lifestyle as I compose this post. I do not, and will not.. Ever. Shun my child nor anyone else who choose this lifestyle. What I will not do is, participate in anything my child and partner engage in together because of what I believe is, grievous to God that does not model his plan for mankind. I love my child with all my heart and they know it without a shadow of a doubt.

Kitten.. You will never find me shoving my truth down your throat or anyone else's.. I promise. I believe in the grace of God who compels and draw by his spirit those who will believe. It is not my job to make anyone see what only God can reveal to them. I can only share what I believe is true without malice to whomever is willing to listen.

fromthe

[Tennesseer]

Apr 13, 2013 19:59:50 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

Apr 13, 2013 14:30:20 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Yes, it was me. Okay, you feel this way because of your beliefs. I respect that. Lots and lots and lots of folks over the ages have felt this way. But where is the recognition that the persons today (gays) who are being shunned or denied rights because of your ("the big you" - Christians) beliefs also feel this way? And worse yet, it is because of who they are (born gay), not something they chose. And it is your "religious tradition" (for lack of a better phrase) that is institutionalized the denial and shunning in this country to keep it that way.

NOT NOT NOT trying to be sarcastic. Really trying to understand.

Thank you heart2heart for your dialogue. 

I am not fully understanding your question concerning recognition?--  Our bible, the word of God to whomever believe it is so, recognizes this truth, (for us). Not really sure if my response is what you were aiming for?

Let me see if I can, with all sincerity explain our position on same sex same and same sex marriage. We believe this particular sin is a severe abhorrence to the fabric of life and an abominably abnormal acting out of sin. First against God, the creator of man and the earth and all that fills the earth and to us, the believer. That will never change. 

Can we agree that there are greater depths or degrees of what we as a people find flat out wrong sinful criminal, and more repulsive than other ills in life? For instance, we, the believer feel the sin and the crime of pedophilia is without question against the very grain of what God purposed the human body for.. Most people feel repulsed by the act of pedophilia whether they believe our God says it is sinful or not. That, plus other ill uses of the body. I only make mention of the above for comparison sake to make a point of how grieved and vexed the abnormal acts effects the believer. 

Now.. I want to go on record that one of my children live the gay lifestyle as I compose this post. I do not, and will not.. Ever. Shun my child nor anyone else who choose this lifestyle. What I will not do is, participate in anything my child and partner engage in together because of what I believe is, grievous to God that does not model his plan for mankind. I love my child with all my heart and they know it without a shadow of a doubt.

Kitten.. You will never find me shoving my truth down your throat or anyone else's.. I promise. I believe in the grace of God who compels and draw by his spirit those who will believe. It is not my job to make anyone see what only God can reveal to them. I can only share what I believe is true without malice to whomever is willing to listen.

fromthe

I'm curious. If your gay child finds a partner of the same gender and they decide to have a family through either in-vitro fertilization or artificial insemination (if your child is female, and she is the one fertilized) or adopt a child (if your child is a male), would you ignore the grandchild?

[TonyTiger]

Has the Bleeding Hearts Contingent figured-out yet, that 'shunning' someone, because you believe that they are engaged in wrongful or sinful or unnatural acts, is not the same thing as a 'hate crime'?     

 "Lions, Tigers and Moral Relativism... oh my!"   

Next thing ya know, they'll be sending Business Owners to bed without any supper, because they won't come out and play with the Gay kids... 

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2013 20:13:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 13, 2013 19:59:50 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

I am not fully understanding your question concerning recognition?--  Our bible, the word of God to whomever believe it is so, recognizes this truth, (for us). Not really sure if my response is what you were aiming for?

Let me see if I can, with all sincerity explain our position on same sex same and same sex marriage. We believe this particular sin is a severe abhorrence to the fabric of life and an abominably abnormal acting out of sin. First against God, the creator of man and the earth and all that fills the earth and to us, the believer. That will never change. 

Can we agree that there are greater depths or degrees of what we as a people find flat out wrong sinful criminal, and more repulsive than other ills in life? For instance, we, the believer feel the sin and the crime of pedophilia is without question against the very grain of what God purposed the human body for.. Most people feel repulsed by the act of pedophilia whether they believe our God says it is sinful or not. That, plus other ill uses of the body. I only make mention of the above for comparison sake to make a point of how grieved and vexed the abnormal acts effects the believer. 

Now.. I want to go on record that one of my children live the gay lifestyle as I compose this post. I do not, and will not.. Ever. Shun my child nor anyone else who choose this lifestyle. What I will not do is, participate in anything my child and partner engage in together because of what I believe is, grievous to God that does not model his plan for mankind. I love my child with all my heart and they know it without a shadow of a doubt.

Kitten.. You will never find me shoving my truth down your throat or anyone else's.. I promise. I believe in the grace of God who compels and draw by his spirit those who will believe. It is not my job to make anyone see what only God can reveal to them. I can only share what I believe is true without malice to whomever is willing to listen.

fromthe

I'm curious. If your gay child finds a partner of the same gender and they decide to have a family through either in-vitro fertilization or artificial insemination (if your child is female, and she is the one fertilized) or adopt a child (if your child is a male), would you ignore the grandchild?

I will not recognize the arrangement as a family unit, but can love my child, the partner and the child or children as individuals. I've share the same truths as I believe them with my child and the partner. By the way, there are three children in the midst of the partnership right now.. I love them all and because of that, I can still speak truth to the power (mindset) that keeps them bound.. If I shun any of them totally how can they ever know what I believe is truth? They can't. 

[Tennesseer]

When and if you visit the three of them/or they visit you, how do you ignore the elephant in the room?

[Deleted]

And how do they?

(Sometimes messages boards stink for conveying tone. Please read that in craftysarah's genuine, respectful interest voice)

[Tennesseer]

Ditto.

[Deleted]

I'm curious also. I'm thinking they must be very loving, forgiving types of people themselves. 

The whole idea makes me very sad actually...

[Tennesseer]

My eyes missed the part where there are actually three children involved.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2013 21:00:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

When and if you visit the three of them/or they visit you, how do you ignore the elephant in the room?

My child comes to visit me, alone. There is love and respect between us. I respect their decision to chose their lifestyle and likewise, the same respect is granted me- To believe and hold to what I believe concerning the arrangement. We've dealt with the elephant in the room syndrome.. I've spoken to the two a few times and whenever I feel led to again, I will and I do. My child realize the relationship is not welcome in my environment and out of respect will not push it upon me or others.. My baby can come around as often as they want and will feel the love..

By the way.. My child realize the relationship is against the grain and the purpose for life. It's like anything.. We may get caught up in things we know is against the grain of what we personally believe is wrong, but find ourselves engaging in.. Not something like eating ice cream either.  Ice cream is against the very grain of the hip though- 

[weltschmerz]

What I will not do is, participate in anything my child and partner engage in together because of what I believe is, grievous to God that does not model his plan for mankind. I love my child with all my heart and they know it without a shadow of a doubt.

I'm not following this at all. Are you saying you have nothing to do with the grandchildren? After all, parenting and raising and loving these kids is something that they do together.

[Deleted]

What a heartbreaking situation.  Thank you for being open about it.  

This isn't the religions sub-board, so I cannot tell you the content of my prayers, but know that you are in them.

[Deleted]

If your child has formed a loving family unit in which they are raising children, I don't see how that is against the grain and purpose of life?    

Are you also saying there is only one grain and purpose to life?

I'm really just trying to understand. This is a very foreign concept o me...

[mmhmm]

It's foreign to me, as well, oped.  I've never been able to wrap my mind around this concept and, I suppose, I never will.  I, too, find it very sad.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2013 19:59:50 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

Apr 13, 2013 14:30:20 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Yes, it was me. Okay, you feel this way because of your beliefs. I respect that. Lots and lots and lots of folks over the ages have felt this way. But where is the recognition that the persons today (gays) who are being shunned or denied rights because of your ("the big you" - Christians) beliefs also feel this way? And worse yet, it is because of who they are (born gay), not something they chose. And it is your "religious tradition" (for lack of a better phrase) that is institutionalized the denial and shunning in this country to keep it that way.

NOT NOT NOT trying to be sarcastic. Really trying to understand.

Thank you heart2heart for your dialogue. 

I am not fully understanding your question concerning recognition?--  Our bible, the word of God to whomever believe it is so, recognizes this truth, (for us). Not really sure if my response is what you were aiming for?

Let me see if I can, with all sincerity explain our position on same sex same and same sex marriage. We believe this particular sin is a severe abhorrence to the fabric of life and an abominably abnormal acting out of sin. First against God, the creator of man and the earth and all that fills the earth and to us, the believer. That will never change. 

Can we agree that there are greater depths or degrees of what we as a people find flat out wrong sinful criminal, and more repulsive than other ills in life? For instance, we, the believer feel the sin and the crime of pedophilia is without question against the very grain of what God purposed the human body for.. Most people feel repulsed by the act of pedophilia whether they believe our God says it is sinful or not. That, plus other ill uses of the body. I only make mention of the above for comparison sake to make a point of how grieved and vexed the abnormal acts effects the believer. 

Now.. I want to go on record that one of my children live the gay lifestyle as I compose this post. I do not, and will not.. Ever. Shun my child nor anyone else who choose this lifestyle. What I will not do is, participate in anything my child and partner engage in together because of what I believe is, grievous to God that does not model his plan for mankind. I love my child with all my heart and they know it without a shadow of a doubt.

Kitten.. You will never find me shoving my truth down your throat or anyone else's.. I promise. I believe in the grace of God who compels and draw by his spirit those who will believe. It is not my job to make anyone see what only God can reveal to them. I can only share what I believe is true without malice to whomever is willing to listen.

fromthe

Have a great day.  

[zibazinski]

I try not to think about anyone's sex life but my own. That's HARD enough!

[Deleted]

Seems like a smart approach.

[Deleted]

ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/13/openly-gay-son-of-gop-lawmaker-speaks-out/?iref=allsearch

ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/13/openly-gay-son-of-gop-lawmaker-speaks-out/?iref=allsearch


Not ignoring anyone. I will return here to respond later this evening.

Maybe you will be able to read the above article and review the video? It speaks my stand on the same issue from another family..

I want to thank everyone for even listening to me whether we agree with the other or not.

Thanks snowy, I will have that great day!  May we all have one..  

Fromthe

[Tennesseer]

I read your link. I also read another article regarding the CNN Anderson Cooper with young Salmon and Salmon stated to Cooper he hoped his parents would change their minds on same-sex marriage.

Is that your daughter's position with you too, that you may someday change your mind?

(CNN) – The relationship between Matt R. Salmon and his father, GOP Rep. Matt Salmon of Arizona, is loving and supportive, though the younger Matt still hopes one day his conservative father will support same-sex marriage.

"Yes, he doesn't support gay marriage, but that's no reason that I shouldn't love him, or just accept him for who he is," Salmon said Friday on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," adding later "I hope that he changes his position" on marriage rights for same-sex couples.

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/gay-son-of-gop-lawmaker-i-hope-he-changes-his-position/

[Deleted]

Tennessee.. I saw the interview with Matt saying to Cooper how he hoped his father would have a change of heart. I guess the main point I was trying to make was- Though families disagree on major issues in their lives their love can still prevail.

No, it is not my child's position that I would have a change of heart in same sex or same sex marriage. As matter of fact, Tenneseer, my child knows they are out of alignment concerning our shared core beliefs. They are the same concerning this issue. They've made a choice to live as they please. It's like knowing embezzling money is wrong (or any other crime), but still choosing to engage in the practice. By the way, I know same sex/same sex marriage is not a criminal act. 

Someone mentioned same-sex/same sex marriage not being a crime, if I read their post correctly. No, it certainly isn't. I was only trying to make a point of principle to help illustrate my position.

Oped, yes, I do believe there is only one grain in life that God intended for the family unit that I agree with. I also realize and respect others ability to choose their own paths of grain too. Something my child has applied to their life.

Lastly.. The three children involved in this arrangement was part of a previous heterosexual marriage that dissolved, not belonging to my child. The arrangement, I am sure has many loving aspects as a family unit. I don't doubt it at all, I know there is. But, loving one another does not make a wrong matter, right. We, me and my child, loving respect the others decisions whether we agree or not.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2013 17:59:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 13, 2013 17:06:49 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

I don't think religion should even be a consideration, people should be able to refuse service to anybody for any reason or for no reason at all.

Great way to grow your business what with the Internet and social networking sites.

no one said it was a great business model

BUT, stupidity has always been a right in this country

so if i want to be stupid, and "discriminate" against sending flowers to a gay wedding...it ought to be my RIGHT to do so

or does stupidity only apply to those on the "left"