Money Lies Your Parents Told You

[Firebird]

It's kind of funny how few parents teach their kids about the real world.  We tend to teach our kids the "rules" as they were explained to us, which tend to represent the world the way we WISH it was, rather than the way the world actually works.

I saw a prime example of this in action this weekend when my cousin's mother said to him, "Money can't buy happiness."

This is, in my opinion, a complete lie and a very dangerous one.  Kids ought to be taught that money can not only buy happiness, it's one of the most important tools at our disposal in a capitalist society.  Money buys freedom, options, autonomy and power.  (I suppose if freedom, options, autonomy and power don't float your boat then it's true that money doesn't buy happiness... but I've never met anyone that wished they had less of any of those things.)

We might wish it were otherwise, but it isn't.  I fully intend to teach my kid(s) the reality of money. 

What money lies did your parents tell you as a child?  If you have children, will you teach them different? 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Get good grades and you'll get lots of scholarships to pay for school.

I know that's YM sacrilege to claim it's a lie but after watching the same three people get pretty much every single scholarship the school offered I realized it's not just about busting your ass but like anything else it's who you know. 

Not saying getting good grades isn't important but I'm going to make sure Gwen doesn't hang her entire college costs on the chance of getting enough "free" money to cover it.  It'll be sweet if that happens but we have a 529 and I plan on encouraging her to work during high school.

Also I worked in the registrar's office at Simpson.  I don't know about ivy league schools but at Simspon getting accepted was a numbers game.  I had the right numbers, I got in.  I don't want her busting her ass doing 50 million volunteer/sports/drama/band activities thinking that's her only way to get into school.

Unless you're planning on majoring in it or getting a scholarship in it I was surpised at how little extracurriclar activies were mentioned in the application files.

I'd like her to do some, I think it's a good experience, but just like grades I don't want her counting on voluteering getting her into and paying for school.

I really want her to have more than one "revenue" stream for college.  20/20 hindsight I should have pushed my parents into letting me work at McD's.  My grades and drama helped but didn't come close to covering my full costs.

Apply for everything you can and if you get it, great.  If not she'll have other savings to fall back on.

[thyme4change]

I think the biggest lie they told me was that they didn't have any money.  

The house they owned when I was born, and they weren't even 30 yet is now worth ~$1M.  The house they had before their current house is now worth $600k, and the house I grew up in (and they still live in) is ~$750k.  I'm pretty sure they have money.

[happyhoix]

I don't know if I would classify this as 'lies,' but my mom was from a generation of women who believed money was a 'male' thing and not something the wives should be privy to. They also believed married women would be SAHM's.

So for instance she told me once I got married I would get an allowance once a week from my husband, like she did, and that would be what I would use to buy groceries, etc. Other than that, I didn't really need to know anything about money.

It really annoyed her when I insisted I wanted my own job and my own money. However, in her late seventies, after our dad died, she realized how important it was for a woman not to rely on her DH for all the finances.

[Abby Normal]

I don't think that money buys happiness. But it can sure make your life easier.  But rich people have problems too, just not monetary ones.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't consider either of your examples "lies" by any means

Lie is a stretch but 20/20 hindsight expecting my entire college education to hinge  on getting enough scholarships was short sighted.

Maybe I was just too stupid, a YM failure already as a teen or didn't have the right connections, I don't know.  All I know is doing it that way pretty much left me no other options besides loans.

I'll encourage her to apply for anything and everything but I want her to not count on that and be left twisting in the wind like I was when it came time to apply for college.

Maybe she'll get lucky and not suck like her momma and get a full ride, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Firebird]

I tell my kids to pursue what they love, have a money-making back up plan, and start saving early.

I'm on board with the second and third, but I don't necessarily believe in pursuing what you love either.  At least not for the vast majority of people.

Exceptions would be people who have a real plan to eventually make enough to support themselves doing what they love, and people who happen to love doing something that makes a lot of money. 

Because again, money means options and freedom.  If you have enough of it, you can do whatever you love on the side until it pays enough to support you - and if it never does, at least you have a backup plan. 

[Deleted]

That a nose protector is sexy and worth the money

[Firebird]

So for instance she told me once I got married I would get an allowance once a week from my husband, like she did, and that would be what I would use to buy groceries, etc. Other than that, I didn't really need to know anything about money.

*cringe*

[Firebird]

I don't think that money buys happiness. But it can sure make your life easier.  But rich people have problems too, just not monetary ones.

It's not the most important thing in life, but it can make pretty much everything IN your life easier if you have enough of it.  So I consider it pretty damn important.

There are very, very, very few bad situations in life that money can't at least improve.

[Firebird]

And maybe "lies" is a bit harsh since that tends to imply a malicious intent.

I don't think most parents intentionally deceive their children, but I do think that these [let's call them "myths"] are culturally accepted and then repeated from generation to generation. 

In my book, that makes them lies.  But that doesn't mean parents are intentionally misleading their children.  Most are trying to set kids up the best way they can.  I'm sure happyhoix's mother wanted her to have a happy life but she imparted a very dangerous (IMO) lie to her in the process.   

[lexxy703]

My parents were very up front about the importance of money.  My Father told me things like it is just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as it is a poor man.  Or money may not buy happiness but it is a whole lot esier to be happy when you are rich than when you are poor.

My Mother alway said she who controls the purse strings......

[thyme4change]

There are very, very, very few bad situations in life that money can't at least improve. 

I agree.  If I had to be sick, I would rather have the money to get the best treatment.  If I had mental health problem, I would prefer to have the money to find the right therapists and medications.  If my child had a learning disability or a behavior issue, I would hope that I had the resources to get the schooling that worked best for my kid.  If my spouse dies, I would prefer to have enough savings to make ends meet without also having to up-end my entire life.  If I divorce, I hope that I have enough money to provide for my kids.  If someone sues me, I want to be able to hire a good lawyer to help me fight it.  If I get old and can no longer live alone, I want to be able to choose a facility that I like, rather than being stuck with the one that the government will provide.  

Money helps.[/span]

[raeoflyte]

Apr 9, 2013 11:21:20 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I tell my kids to pursue what they love, have a money-making back up plan, and start saving early.

I'm on board with the second and third, but I don't necessarily believe in pursuing what you love either.  At least not for the vast majority of people.

Exceptions would be people who have a real plan to eventually make enough to support themselves doing what they love, and people who happen to love doing something that makes a lot of money. 

Because again, money means options and freedom.  If you have enough of it, you can do whatever you love on the side until it pays enough to support you - and if it never does, at least you have a backup plan. 

I think that is why stressing a back up is important, but I don't want to limit my kids. Minor in accounting or bookkeeping, but absolutely major in your dream even if success is scarce.

[Deleted]

Hobby in your dream. Work in something that is stable and pays well.

[Deleted]

That the only way to become a millionaire is to win the lottery. That everyone carries debt. That it's impossible to save unless you earn a lot.

[justme]

There was actually a study regarding money and happiness, and after a certain dollar amount an increase in money didn't increase a person's happiness - at least in a significant enough way. If I remember the article correctly the tipping point number was actually pretty low, definitely under a million. I can't remember when/where I read it so I have no clue if I'd be able to find it again.

[thyme4change]

Minor in accounting or bookkeeping, but absolutely major in your dream even if success is scarce.

[/span]

That isn't how my University worked.  You couldn't get a music major and a minor in accounting.  You had to be accepted into the school of business (which didn't teach Trombone) to take the classes.  So, you would basically have to take the entire business curriculum plus the entire music curriculum.  I don't remember how much time that would take - but I'm kind of insulted that you think just anyone can just take a couple of extra classes and get the degree that it took me a full time load to get.  

Sorry, a back-up plan is an okay idea, but be realistic.  You can't expect everyone's back-up plan to be a highly paid, unrelated career path.  More likely the back-up plan for becoming a world-famous, touring, classical opera singer would be to be a high school choir teacher.  Decent money, and something you know something about.  (Although, just because you are a good musician doesn't mean you will be a good teacher, and that is why there are so many crappy band teachers out there.)

Also, unless you are willing to take significant risks, your dreams will never come true.  If your kid doesn't put a huge effort into becoming a professional ballerina because they are too busy taking engineering classes "just in case" then you have created a self-fulfilling situation.

[thyme4change]

If I remember the article correctly the tipping point number was actually pretty low, definitely under a million. 

The number was approximately twice the median household income of the nation.  






[/span] 

[Firebird]

thyme4change, I thought I told you that agreeing with you so much is bad for my mental health.  Stop being so reasonable! 

[telephus44]

I don't know if it's so much lies, but a lot of people here have a very different money philosophy from their parents.  If you're in the "all debt is evil" camp then you're not going to be persuaded by the Phil script.

Sometimes it's not so much wrong as it is a different way of looking at things.  Wrong would be "no credit card charges interest" not "you should never charge anything on a credit card."

[Firebird]

There's definitely a point at which more money does not equal more happiness, but (speaking personally) that point will come when/if we have enough money to easily cover all expenses, substantial savings, and plenty of fun things without blinking an eye.  That number is very, very high.  If we were making $200k, for example, going to $225k wouldn't make me any happier.  But we're well short of $200k, and I don't really see us ever making that much (which is fine but just goes to show how much would be required for me to get to the point of more money =/= more happiness personally). 

I think for MOST people, the income at which they would have plenty and more money wouldn't make them more happy is pretty high, possibly out of reach entirely.

Right now, an extra $50k a year would make me quite happy indeed.  It would mean reaching all of our savings goals much faster.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people who wouldn't be happier if their income increased $50k instantly.

Conversely, the paycut I'm probably going to take in order to work closer to home is going to decrease my happiness a little bit.  Mind you, being closer to my kid will INCREASE my personal happiness and the happiness of my family substantially (which is the whole point of the switch), but I have to be careful with that because at the same time it's important that I meet a fairly high "minimum" income - otherwise the lack of money will cause too many problems to outweigh the benefits of me being closer, resulting in unhappiness. 

[tskeeter]

Apr 9, 2013 12:03:46 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If I remember the article correctly the tipping point number was actually pretty low, definitely under a million. 

The number was approximately twice the median household income of the nation.  

[/span] 
[/quote]

I think it was somewhere in the $70K - $75K range, which would be a fair bit less than twice the median household income (which was just over $50K in 2011). 

[justme]

My parents were pretty straight forward with me about money. I didn't know nitty gritty specifics, but I once I was older I knew I couldn't have some things because they prioritized other things. And they wanted to try to keep their kids from making the same mistakes as them. I think the closest thing to a lie was when I was younger and always wanted to do more activities - they told me that it was too much on top of school, friends, homework, and Girl Scouts so I could choose only one activity. I didn't like it since I did have a lot of free time and really wanted to do gymnastics and dance or go team on gymnastics. Once I got to high school they told me they actually couldn't afford to send me to more than one thing or up my days at gymnastics - time wasn't the main issue.

[Tiny]

"Money Can't buy Happiness" isn't a lie or literal!  It's a Metaphor!!!!

Sorry, saw Book Of Mormon and some things can not be unheard or unseen     LOL!


My parents neither lied nor told the truth about money - it was never mentioned - ever.  You quickly learned to never ever ask for anything that cost money (like asking for gum at the grocery check out) because that would just get you berated and yelled at (without ever mentioning money - cause it wasn't about money - it was about you being 'bad'  for asking for something you couldn't have - even though before you asked you didn't know you couldn't have it.... 

I seriously thought that I must be the ONLY human who wasn't psychic/mindreader as a child.   I figured everyone else could read minds up until I was about 8 or 9.... cause it seemed I was just suppose to "know" stuff.  Seems I didn't get any a priori knowledge.  

[susanb]

1. Rich people are selfish, greedy, fill in the blank with a negative adjective.  My parents and their church were fine with middle and upper middle class people, but talked about pursuing worldly riches in a negative way.  I used to believe that the wealthy are greedy.  I now believe that most wealthy people have figured out a way to share their ability/skill/product or talent with a large audience. 

2. It isn't "fair" for one person to be really wealthy while there are so many poor people in this world.  It took me a long time to realize that I could help poor people a lot more by obtaining wealth and giving a percentage of it away than I ever could by being poor and taking away from resources from those who actually really need it, or by being middle class and giving away the same percentage of a smaller amount of income.  I am not yet wealthy, but I no longer think that becoming wealthy is going to hurt anyone or avoiding wealth is going to help anyone.

[midjd]

I think for MOST people, the income at which they would have plenty and more money wouldn't make them more happy is pretty high, possibly out of reach entirely.

Right now, an extra $50k a year would make me quite happy indeed. It would mean reaching all of our savings goals much faster. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people who wouldn't be happier if their income increased $50k instantly.

I think it's very hard to quantify the amount of money that would lead to "happiness."  

Growing up, and even in law school (so not THAT long ago) I thought $100K was a great income. Buy whatever you want, save a ton, and never worry about money.  Now that I've reached it, I wonder WTF was I thinking? We're not eating ramen or sitting around with the lights off, but it isn't even close to what I thought it would be. (I also think I "worry" more about money now than I did when we didn't have any.)

So then I think I'd be happy with $200K, but after taxes, lifestyle creep (assuming a slightly more stressful job or longer working hours), and other expenses, it probably wouldn't feel much different.

I think the $75K "happiness" threshold is about right. Less than that and you may be struggling or have the added stress of worrying about paying bills; but more than that, even substantially more, probably isn't going to do much for your state of mind.

[Firebird]

how's that working for you?

I'm not Archie, but it's been working great for me.  The idea of me trying to support myself as a writer is kind of nightmarish for a number of reasons.  But I love doing it on the side. 

[thyme4change]

The study came out in 2003 when the median income was ~$40k.  Double that was $80k.  I believe the study said $75k.  So, it was not a perfect double, which is why I said approximately.  I don't know if the "happiness" number went up to $100k-ish when the median income went up to $50k-ish.

I also heard the number as a ratio compared to the poverty level, but I don't recall what that ratio was.  

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2013 12:31:58 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Apr 9, 2013 11:57:25 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Hobby in your dream. Work in something that is stable and pays well.

how's that working for you? 

So far so good for me....   I still have 30+ years to go though..... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek