raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 9, 2013 12:40:50 GMT -5
[/span] That isn't how my University worked. You couldn't get a music major and a minor in accounting. You had to be accepted into the school of business (which didn't teach Trombone) to take the classes. So, you would basically have to take the entire business curriculum plus the entire music curriculum. I don't remember how much time that would take - but I'm kind of insulted that you think just anyone can just take a couple of extra classes and get the degree that it took me a full time load to get.
Sorry, a back-up plan is an okay idea, but be realistic. You can't expect everyone's back-up plan to be a highly paid, unrelated career path. More likely the back-up plan for becoming a world-famous, touring, classical opera singer would be to be a high school choir teacher. Decent money, and something you know something about. (Although, just because you are a good musician doesn't mean you will be a good teacher, and that is why there are so many crappy band teachers out there.)
Also, unless you are willing to take significant risks, your dreams will never come true. If your kid doesn't put a huge effort into becoming a professional ballerina because they are too busy taking engineering classes "just in case" then you have created a self-fulfilling situation.[/quote] I wasn't trying to be insulting or be nearly as polarizing as your response implies. I'm not going to tell my kids not to bother studying marine biology because they'll likely never make more than $24k a year. I will help them research available jobs, starting and average salaries, and encourage them to have a back up, such as some basic bookkeeping and accounting classes to give them more job opportunities. If their dream is to sing on broadway-go to broadway. Just become a licensed waxer first, so you can get a job before your big break.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 9, 2013 12:48:52 GMT -5
If their dream is to sing on broadway-go to broadway. Just become a licensed waxer first, so you can get a job before your big break. And if you've been auditioning for two years without so much as a callback, be willing to rethink your dream. It's okay to have lots of dreams. In fact, I think it's a good thing. It's a very, very rare person that has only one dream in life and the focus to achieve it even if it means letting go of all other dreams. I want my kid to understand that a lot of different happy endings are possible for her.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 9, 2013 12:53:54 GMT -5
I think following the dream has a lot to do with how much they want that dream and how realistic they are. Growing up my best friend and I both wanted to be writers. Well, she's out there writing and her first poem book is coming out soon, probably won't make her rich and I don't think she's expected to either. I think being a "starving" artist was half the appeal of being a writer to her. Me? I always knew I wanted something more stable, if somehow along the way I wrote the great American novel and earned enough to quit my day job then good for me, but otherwise I didn't want to be scraping pennies together at the end of the month to make rent. I also had various other dreams of what I wanted to do, but the whole "starving ___" just to pursue my dream didn't appeal to me. I was always a work to play person.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 13:02:02 GMT -5
it's not a lie, but I wish my parents and the adults who were supposed to be helping me gave me more information about different career paths for my interests when I was younger.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 9, 2013 13:03:50 GMT -5
There are other ways to realize your dream, too... I also wanted to be a writer. I became a lawyer instead. I write more in a week on this job than I ever did in school or for pleasure (although ironically, instead of being pressured to hit an arbitrary page limit, I have to do my best to condense everything into a single paragraph/page or no one will read it). Also, were I to retire and try to pull a John Grisham/Scott Turow, I'd have a lot more context than if I'd gone straight into writing after HS/college. I think it can be harder to find solid subject matter when you've never done anything else.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 9, 2013 13:09:24 GMT -5
My husband always says "If you want to be a writer, become a lawyer."[/span]
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 9, 2013 13:15:48 GMT -5
There are other ways to realize your dream, too... I also wanted to be a writer. I became a lawyer instead. I write more in a week on this job than I ever did in school or for pleasure (although ironically, instead of being pressured to hit an arbitrary page limit, I have to do my best to condense everything into a single paragraph/page or no one will read it). Also, were I to retire and try to pull a John Grisham/Scott Turow, I'd have a lot more context than if I'd gone straight into writing after HS/college. I think it can be harder to find solid subject matter when you've never done anything else. Oh, my dream for like 8 years was to be a lawyer, probably an offshoot of liking writing now that I think about it. But when I graduated college there was already a glut of lawyers without a job and even though I had a decent shot at getting a job with my business/finance background I couldn't justify taking on the risk of that debt load. I just wrote a technical paper for publication through work, I guess that counts as writing - though it wasn't as fun but I guess it fulfills my publication dreams!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 13:19:20 GMT -5
Hobby in your dream. Work in something that is stable and pays well. Yeah, I don't think it should be "do what you live" - much more "do what you don't hate" If you hate it at 22, you'll never make it to 67. But hardly anybody gets to love their work. Most people can only aspire to work in something they find vaguely interesting, not entirely objectionable.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 9, 2013 13:39:39 GMT -5
I agree with Drama. Scholarships aren't the mecca for paying for college many in YM claim they are.
In my experience, there are three ways to get scholarships.
1. You know someone. 2. You are in a disadvanated class. 3. You are the VERY top of whater, grades, sports, music whatever.
For your average middle class white kid with a 3.2 GPA, you can't count on much in the way of scholarships.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 10, 2013 18:04:22 GMT -5
I never heard my parents say it, but I did read a lot of books in which the phrase, "Mind the pennies, and the pounds will take care of themselves" appeared.
That might have been good advice for someone handling an allowance or pin money or in a world without credit or investment choices, but I don't live in that world. IMHO, buying an overpriced latte at the airport will have very little effect on my future compared to the car that I parked outside the airport.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 11, 2013 15:04:41 GMT -5
How about, "Save 10% for a rainy day". Once again, I don't know who exactly told me this one, but I heard it a lot growing up. As a result, I was at least 30 before the inadequacy of the advice became obvious.
It might have been decent advice as recently as my grandparents time. If you imagine a household that has a 20% average income tax rate, a 10% tithe, a 10% savings rate, steady employment prospects and replacement income of 30% of gross income during unemployment (and is not taxed), saving 10% of gross might just keep you afloat in bad times, especially if your household has a lot of discretionary expenses or expenses that can be deferred for long periods of time. The above household can easily survive a month of rain on three months of savings, more if they can trim their spending.
But it's disasterous advice when a household carries debt, has less replacement income, wants to have health insurance, or can't trim tithes or other outflows.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Apr 11, 2013 15:22:43 GMT -5
"Getting a job and paying taxes is for idiots/mules."
"School is evil and brainwashes you into becoming a mule."
And a bunch others - mostly derivatives of the above two.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 11, 2013 15:24:49 GMT -5
I thought school brainwashes you into becoming a liberal?
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Apr 11, 2013 16:23:07 GMT -5
My dad told me that if I got him a beer, he'd give me a shiny nickel. Flash forward a dozen beers and I was still nickle-less while he was out on the lawn, shouting at clouds.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 11, 2013 18:15:30 GMT -5
Hey Bob - did you Dad graduate later to yelling at palm trees and cracks in the sidewalk. If so, he was walking up our street the other day. I watched him have a 20 minute heated argument with a 6 foot date palm. The tree stood its ground.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 18:10:40 GMT -5
Quality of Life is far more important than money. - Having your health (and your kids/significant other healthy) - Having sufficient intelligence and the ability to work (or whatever) so you can promote your interests and income if you want to - Understanding how to live within your means (this is a choice) - Associating with safe & sane people - Being able to live somewhere YOU feel safe (everyone has a different comfort level)
In more rural areas a family of 4+ can comfortably live on $50K and be home owners. In HCOLA you need a lot more money to even approach comfortable
Where you live might be heavily influencing your feelings about money. You would prioritize differently if ever struck with a long term illness.
You spend far too much of your lifetime at work to do something you hate just for the money. I disagree with those that say you can't do what you love. You might need to carry more than one job if what you love doesn't translate to adequate earnings, but at least you are enjoying what you are doing each day of your life.
If a million dollars dropped in your lap, would that suddenly make you happy? Would you trade your child or spouse for the money? Would you be happy with the money and no DH?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 18:20:36 GMT -5
How about, "Save 10% for a rainy day". Once again, I don't know who exactly told me this one, but I heard it a lot growing up. As a result, I was at least 30 before the inadequacy of the advice became obvious. It might have been decent advice as recently as my grandparents time. If you imagine a household that has a 20% average income tax rate, a 10% tithe, a 10% savings rate, steady employment prospects and replacement income of 30% of gross income during unemployment (and is not taxed), saving 10% of gross might just keep you afloat in bad times, especially if your household has a lot of discretionary expenses or expenses that can be deferred for long periods of time. The above household can easily survive a month of rain on three months of savings, more if they can trim their spending. But it's disasterous advice when a household carries debt, has less replacement income, wants to have health insurance, or can't trim tithes or other outflows. I suspect that was great advice in the days when you could count on a pension for retirement. If you are also saving adequately for retirement, 10% for rainy days seems like plenty to me.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 15, 2013 10:31:09 GMT -5
A friend's daughter was waaay into dance. This is despite the fact that both parents had STEM degrees and her brother was a business major. When she went to college, she majored in dance. Her goal was to dance on Broadway, so she has moved to NYC and is going after her dream.
Right now, she is supporting herself teaching Pilates. It asked my friend how that was working out for her when I saw him last month and he said that it was working out remarkably well for her. I know it is not the path that he prefers that she would take, but she has figured out a way of making it work for her. And when he spoke about her, it did not sound like he was doing a whole lot of supplementing of income.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 15, 2013 12:17:01 GMT -5
Well, nobody forced you to go to a university that discouraged double majoring. Mine actively encouraged people to double major. I do agree with you that your backup plan should be something where you have some interest and aptitude, though. But it also should be something where you stand a chance. Art and music programs are the first things schools cut and there's no shortage of artists who would love to get a school gig, so you're facing fierce competition for a job with little job security.
I was raised to think that you have your interests, but your primary plan should be a sensible one, and you should have backup plans. It was beaten into my head from an early age that there is a difference between having the job you want and the life you want, and if you want a family, you sure as heck better be able to support one. [/span]
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 15, 2013 14:10:00 GMT -5
We could do a double major - but to double major you have to complete ALL the requirements for BOTH degrees.
The requirements for an accounting degree 48 credits in business related classes of which 21 were accounting specific. You also had 12 additional credits of electives. Assuming you also needed another 48 credits to get a music major - but your electives could do double duty, you would have to take 36 extra credit hours to get that double major. If you were pulling down 18 credits a semester - that is an additional year.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 15, 2013 14:34:33 GMT -5
Besides it was a minor that was suggested, not doubling majoring. Unless your minor is very close to what you already majored in you probably won't finish it. My biology major overlapped with a chemistry major. I only had one extra class to take if I wanted a chemistry minor.
In order to get a minor in accounting I would have had to take a completely different set of pre-reqs in order to get to the classes I'd need for the minor. By the time I'm done with the pre-reqs I might as well have majored in accounting.
You'd be better off majoring in accounting and just taking dance/music/underwater basket weaving as your filler courses. I did that with theatre and lit, I didn't want to major/minor in either but needed X number of electives so I chose those.
It's very hard to double major or minor in two totally different departments. Most colleges discourage it because it takes at least another 1-2 years to finish if you insist on going that route.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 15, 2013 14:50:41 GMT -5
I pulled off a double major in 4 years, but both were of the basket-weaving variety (English and Sociology), so probably don't count.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 15, 2013 15:07:03 GMT -5
I would say sociology and English are probably closer together workload/class load wise than double majoring in dance and accounting.
You couldn't have paid me to double major in chemistry but the majors had enough overlap I could have probably succeded.
I would not have been able to do English/Biology because there would have been hardly any overlap and my biology course load would take up most of my time. It would have pulled me in too many directions.
It's not impossible but it's not something I'd recommend unless you REALLY want to dedicate yourself to two separate majors.
Most people end up dropping down to one. It was interesting working in the registrar's office. As freshman a person would have like 3 completely unrelated majors declared then by junior year was down to one.
The ones that kept with it had double majors/minors that made some sort of sense. Lots of Education majors had another major/minor and that made sense. If you plan to be a math teacher doubling in math makes sense.
But the theatre/religion/biochemistry triple major?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 15:40:17 GMT -5
I pulled off a double major in 4 years, but both were of the basket-weaving variety (English and Sociology), so probably don't count. Me too. The liberal arts college offered the most options for this - you could do a STEM + basket-weaving degree without much trouble. At my university, business, engineering, music and art were their own schools though, so the requirements didn't have as much overlap.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 15:54:48 GMT -5
I would say sociology and English are probably closer together workload/class load wise than double majoring in dance and accounting.
You couldn't have paid me to double major in chemistry but the majors had enough overlap I could have probably succeded.
I would not have been able to do English/Biology because there would have been hardly any overlap and my biology course load would take up most of my time. It would have pulled me in too many directions.
It's not impossible but it's not something I'd recommend unless you REALLY want to dedicate yourself to two separate majors.
Most people end up dropping down to one. It was interesting working in the registrar's office. As freshman a person would have like 3 completely unrelated majors declared then by junior year was down to one.
The ones that kept with it had double majors/minors that made some sort of sense. Lots of Education majors had another major/minor and that made sense. If you plan to be a math teacher doubling in math makes sense.
But the theatre/religion/biochemistry triple major? Okay, I didn't triple major, but my biology degree required me to take English, a foreign language, a bunch of math, a diversity credit, and some other stuff beyond biology. My basket weaving degree required the same stuff. The secret is in the cross listing. One of my English courses counted for basket weaving. All of the basket weaving courses counted for the diversity requirement. I had one class that was cross listed for biology and basket weaving. I also took full advantage of the "$X for 12 or more credit hours" pricing structure. It wouldn't be cost effective if you went to school part time, but it was do-able full time.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 15, 2013 16:05:41 GMT -5
I had to take English 101 and 102 but otherwise none of the English requirements overlapped with the Biology requirements. Plus several majors classes for English were on alternating schedules, so were several Biology majors courses. I would have had to hope that they didn't meet at the same time otherwise I'd have to wait another year to take it.
Generals overlapped but the majors courses did not.
Someone wants to be a dance/accountant double major and can make all the classes work and still graduate more power to them but IMO unless you really plan on utilizing that accounting back-up it's not worth the time/effort. There are many other 2 year/technical degrees you can get as a "back-up".
It's something I would tell my kid to think carefully about. They might think it's their golden ticket but can also backfire in your face.
There really isn't an easy solution.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 15, 2013 16:11:05 GMT -5
Besides it was a minor that was suggested, not doubling majoring. Unless your minor is very close to what you already majored in you probably won't finish it. My biology major overlapped with a chemistry major. I only had one extra class to take if I wanted a chemistry minor. In order to get a minor in accounting I would have had to take a completely different set of pre-reqs in order to get to the classes I'd need for the minor. By the time I'm done with the pre-reqs I might as well have majored in accounting. You'd be better off majoring in accounting and just taking dance/music/underwater basket weaving as your filler courses. I did that with theatre and lit, I didn't want to major/minor in either but needed X number of electives so I chose those. It's very hard to double major or minor in two totally different departments. Most colleges discourage it because it takes at least another 1-2 years to finish if you insist on going that route. I have a minor in chemistry and the only course I needed to take to major in it was physical chemistry. I heard horror stories about that course from chemistry majors who were far stronger in math than I was, so I stayed with the minor in chemistry. I also have enough credits for a minor in theater. I needed liberal arts credit, the courses fit into my schedule and they were FUN (and mindless). I did finish in 4 years too.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Apr 15, 2013 16:18:41 GMT -5
Where I went to Uni, all the schools were their own entity. So double-majoring within a school was maybe an extra semester to year. Double majoring in different schools was very very difficult. So much so that the Uni developed 4 program courses for people who wanted to do so. There was the Agriculture/Life Science, Engineering/Basketweaving and Design/Basketweaving, and Business/Basketweaving. They flexed electives and cross-counted some courses that wouldn't normally cross-count if you weren't in the program. You had to apply to the program with your double picked out, it had to be an acceptable double paring and had to maintain 3.0 or greater to stay in the program. Some had additional requirements. If you did everything correctly, and passed everything and could handle the course load, it should take 5 years. Since I've left, they've added two additional double major programs, Yay Earth!/Basketweaving and Textiles/Basketweaving, making 6 in total.
I think this is a good solution to the double majoring issue. It didn't fix it all (some majors are just not going to let you double major in only 5 years) but you were double majoring under the supervision of someone who understood how the classes cross-counted and interlocked/Pre-reqs so you weren't doing it blind. They could also register you into sections that were 'major only' that you needed. It also makes sure you're not over-doing yourself and/or failing courses.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 16, 2013 8:06:41 GMT -5
I have a minor in chemistry and the only course I needed to take to major in it was physical chemistry
Simpson made bumper stickers that said "I survived P-chem". I barely passed Chem 101, I would have been eaten alive.
I'm not against double majoring, I just think you have to be realistic and know what you want. I probably could have majored in theatre with as many generals as I took but I had ZERO desire to do anything with it.
If my dream was to act on Broadway working in a lab isn't a job that's going to be compatiable with the amount of work I'll have to put in to getting onto Broadway. Most jobs in my major aren't going to be flexible enough for me to devote the time/energy I need to get to Broadway caliber.
If I just enjoy theatre why not just take the classes for fun and stick with volunteering for community theatre? Bonus points if I can attach it to my degree but hardly vital to what I want to do. It won't turn me upside down if I drop or don't do great in my theatre classes.
An accounting job isn't going to let you go on casting calls during a busy cycle. The theatre isn't going to hold rehearsals while you work overtime on your accounts.
I just think it's one of those things that sounds good but unless you really have a solid plan in place isn't going to work as well as you think it will.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 16, 2013 9:50:33 GMT -5
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