Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 7, 2013 8:58:15 GMT -5
BTW, my comment was not meant to knock Later...I come from a family of alcoholics, most of whom have never accepted responsibility for anything they have ever done in life. I respect someone that can own up to what they did and turn their life around.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 7, 2013 9:30:11 GMT -5
There are times in life when people DO fall down in life. And cannot help themselves and need a hand up. And, we want to be there for our friends and family. On the other hand, there are points where people who won't help themselves never try and spend a lifetime of manipulating and taking from which you do have to protect yourself.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 7, 2013 9:34:23 GMT -5
I would give money to my mom if she needed it. Not lend, just give. She made crazy mad sacrifices to raise me, and helped me more than once when I was younger. Now she's retired and in no position to help, so I'm glad I have my act together! I would give her money if she asked, as a gift, not as a loan. It's different when someone asks for a loan, and you give them money telling them it has to be repaid. I only did it so he didn't have to take out a commercial loan, take out full insurance coverage on the car, and pay interest. It wasn't a gift, and he knew it. I love my mother but I will not give her money. She does okay on her own with the basics of life; but occasionally she'll pull that roll her eyes/sigh deeply guilt-thing on me when "talking to the air" about something she wants ("Boy it would be nice to have XYZ. But it's hard living on a fixed income. But you know, that's okay - I would rather have spent the money after your father died launching you kids into the world than have a fat bank account now. What was I going to do? Clutch it to my chest and say, 'it's mine, mine'?"). Sheesh. Yeah, she really does that. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) So when I visit I take her shopping at Costco to fatten up her pantry and to the sale racks at Kohls. When she visits me I make double and triple recipes and send lots of prepared food home with her. But absolutely no cash. She will just turn around and give it to my deadbeat sib who abandoned his kids. She "feels sorry" for him. "What am I supposed to do? Turn my back on him? ("like the rest of you have" hangs in the air, but she now stops herself from saying it). I can't do that - I'm his mother." ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) Gotta love guilt!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 7, 2013 9:37:12 GMT -5
Yes, that would be difficult to deal with. But, you are doing the right thing. You should NOT bankrupt yourself or your own family and children for the sake of irresponsible relatives.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 7, 2013 12:05:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the idea, Swamp. But right now I have more of a "wait and see" attitude. I am going on vacation to Argentina in a few days, and he always looks after my cat when I'm gone. I'll have a conversation with him once I come back. Ava-have you recently discussed the owed money with your friend, the same person who is going to take care of your cat while you visit Argentina? I ask because if you have recently discussed the loaned money he may be uncomfortable with you to not take care of the cat while you are away even though he says he will. You seem to feel your friendship is not so good today. I once went on vacation for ten days. I asked a friend to stop by my place to feed my cat on a daily basis. He said he would. When I returned from vacation, I discovered he had stopped by only once in the ten days I was gone. He left her no food and water. The cat was very happy with my return as she had lost a third of her weight from a lack of food. You might consider asking someone else to take care of the cat or board the cat at a kennel or veterinarian hospital while you are gone.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 7, 2013 12:32:14 GMT -5
BTW, my comment was not meant to knock Later...I come from a family of alcoholics, most of whom have never accepted responsibility for anything they have ever done in life. I respect someone that can own up to what they did and turn their life around. What is the point of having contempt for someone who isnt living up to your standards? Good for you that you prospered in spite of your past. what if God forbid, something traumatic happens to one of your kids, do you want contempt for them if they struggle. Maybe the old christian saying of "hate the sin, love the sinner" has some merit. Have contempt for the act of borrowing and not repaying but not for the borrower. And for the record when I last borrowed money from my mother she would not let me repay her. I never asked again, because I want to repay what I borrow. Also I have lent out money to three different people and havent gotten repaid. It wasnt the end of the world. Treat people however you want, but contempt is an ugly emotion. Borrowing money and not paying it back IS stealing. It is different if the person says "consider it a gift" but htat is not the case with the OP. I would have contempt for anyone who stole my money. No different than if someone broke into my home when I wasn't here and stole from me. Stealing is stealing. I hope to raise very responsible children. I love my kids and if my dd needs me to bail her out, it will be on a repayment plan..if she doesn't pay me back she will never get bailed out again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 12:38:58 GMT -5
I lend money to a friend of mine. It's been a couple thousand here and a thousand there. I just think of it as I'm giving it to her and don't see it as a loan. Good luck! I dont' have it in me to do something like that. If you borrow from me and never repay me, that is stealing....so to preserve family/friendship I never loan money out. I also don't give my money away. My now ex-bff is a financial trainwreck but I would never consider bailing her out. Her financial mess is her own to deal with. Ex-bff? Sorry to hear that ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 12:44:16 GMT -5
Did she let you know as she was spending $$ to "launch you into the world" that she expected payback later? Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. It's the parent's responsibility to decide how to spend money when raising kids- what to provide for them, and when to say "no" because they need to provide for their retirement. I know DS would take care of me if I were old and poor (he's told me that), but I considered it part of my responsibility as a mother to make financial decisions that wouldn't leave me dependent on him later in life.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Apr 7, 2013 12:47:49 GMT -5
He will take care of my cat. That's the main reason why I haven't confronted him with the loan problem yet. I'll let that slide until I come back from my vacation. I don't want him to feel uncomfortable and say no to cat sitting. I am certain he'll take care of the cat because he loves animals and he has a soft spot for her. I've had the cat for 9 years and he's been my friend for 10, so he's known her for all her life. I asked another friend who lives nearby to look after her once, and when I came back the cat hadn't eaten, and was very scared. She gets scared if she's not around people she knows and trusts. She's always happy and well fed when I leave him in charge.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 7, 2013 12:48:35 GMT -5
Like Shoobs, I don't lend money I'm not willing and able to give. If someone asks for a loan and I'm able to help, I'll give them the money. If they pay me back, that's wonderful! If they don't, that's okay, too; however, it will impact my decision if they need money again. For me, I look at the money as a gift from the beginning. That way, there are never any hard feelings. The worst that can happen is I may not help in future those who indicate they need a loan but don't make an effort to pay it back.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Apr 7, 2013 12:59:42 GMT -5
Mmhmm; I think that's the right way to go about it. Thing is; when he asked for the loan, I gave him a loan. I cannot afford a $1K gift. I thought I was doing him a favor and since we were such goods friends, I would be repaid. But here we are 8 months later and he hasn't even advanced me a penny. And as someone said earlier in the thread, the relationship changes when you become the bank. I've seen him go on vacation and rent a car for two weeks, I've seen him get $1,800 tax refund back in February, and now he's receiving weekly payments for a court settlement. And you realize paying you back is not any sort of priority for him. Unfortunately, I'm starting to believe he doesn't plan to pay at all. He's had some lifestyle changes in the past few months, and he has more expenses on the same income. I feel he has written me and my loan off.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2013 13:22:11 GMT -5
Now you know. It was an expensive lesson but you know he's a bum and is screwing you. He is never going to pay you back and he is counting on you being too afraid to ask him. I find people who "borrow" money know full well who will lend it to them and why.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 7, 2013 15:37:23 GMT -5
I dont' have it in me to do something like that. If you borrow from me and never repay me, that is stealing....so to preserve family/friendship I never loan money out. I also don't give my money away. My now ex-bff is a financial trainwreck but I would never consider bailing her out. Her financial mess is her own to deal with. Ex-bff? Sorry to hear that ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png) Thanks Jen. It is ok...I was tired of being dragged into her Jerry Springer drama...
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Apr 7, 2013 15:48:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the idea, Swamp. But right now I have more of a "wait and see" attitude. I am going on vacation to Argentina in a few days, and he always looks after my cat when I'm gone. I'll have a conversation with him once I come back. That sounds like a good plan. Don't you just hate having to ask for something back that you have every right to ask about? Maybe you can word it in a way that he doesn't feel bad if you want to keep this friendship and/or he'll be more inclined to pay you in payments. But that is sad that you can't be helpful or nice to a supposed friend without being taken for granted. I hope you have a great vacation and find the right way to handle this. I know how awkward it can be. But I'm glad he loves your cat and will take care of her. But I'd still wait until after the vacation. You may feel better too and come across better where he will respond favorably. Good luck!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 7, 2013 17:19:40 GMT -5
Did she let you know as she was spending $$ to "launch you into the world" that she expected payback later? Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. It's the parent's responsibility to decide how to spend money when raising kids- what to provide for them, and when to say "no" because they need to provide for their retirement. I know DS would take care of me if I were old and poor (he's told me that), but I considered it part of my responsibility as a mother to make financial decisions that wouldn't leave me dependent on him later in life. You're right Athena, it's just plain wrong. It's a gigantic guilt trip. At first when I realized I was being manipulated I was angry, but now I let it go. I've learned to shut my ears and sing "la la la la la la" in my brain while smiling and nodding my head. Or I look the other way and the dead weight of the words hang in the air because I don't respond. A big ol' guilt trip. And I choose not to let her take up space in my head. She has everything she needs. She just doesn't have everything she wants. When she gets extra money it goes to my "poor, disabled, nobody-loves-him-nobody-talk-to-him" sib because he guilts her. GEE, wonder where he learned THAT from? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) So no cash and no "loans" from me. It would never get repaid.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on Apr 7, 2013 17:35:32 GMT -5
Yes, I know we have talked about this many times. And I have been around this place long enough to know better. I lent my best friend $1,000 back in August. The other day I was driving home, thinking about something else and it just downed on me that he has no intention of paying me back. Lately, we only talk on the phone if I call him, and I haven't seen him in a long time. We used to get together every weekend for lunch and grocery shopping. He asked me for the loan last year. He had just graduated as a Medical Assistant and needed the money to buy a car and get a better job. Well, he bought the car, but he never even looked for jobs. He's still working as a waiter and his student loans are in deferrement. He claimed financial hardship and hasn't made one payment yet. I lent him the money because I really thought he wanted to get ahead in life, and that he'll get a better job and pay me back. He's gotten money back from taxes, taken a vacation, and now is receiving weekly payments from a court settlement. He hasn't paid me one penny yet. Fortunately I don't need the money for everyday expenses, but I took it out of my EF. I start my Master's Degree next month and I have to buy a laptop computer and books. I think the worst part is not so much being out 1K, but the feeling that you thought you were helping someone you care about and then they just don't make an effort, and then turn their back on you. This was the first time I lent someone money, and I am pretty certain it will be also the last. Go on Judge Judy...$1,000 is chump change...there is a lesson to be learned.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Apr 7, 2013 17:49:10 GMT -5
Bobby, can you loan me $1,000? I promise to pay it back! ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angel2.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 17:52:33 GMT -5
Ava, once you get back, just talk to him about a payment plan. If he had to borrow $1000, he doesn't have $1000 to pay you back. Make it easy for him. Tell him $25 a week or something would really help you out because you really need the money.
I think people like this . . . if they are really your friends . . . really would like to pay you back, but they don't know how. They don't understand that it doesn't have to be a lump sum.
Of course, the only person I ever loaned $$$ to was the ex-bf. I have great kids who never ask just as my ex and I would never have asked. Adults support themselves and live with what they earn. I know there can be problems, and I would be sympathetic if my kids lost a job, etc. But it simply has never happened and so they never have asked.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Apr 7, 2013 17:53:04 GMT -5
I loaned a friend/co-worker $200 last fall. It was more than she asked for, and I told her to wait until she got her tax refund to pay me back (longer than she asked for). Giving it as a gift would have been more awkward. I never mentioned it again. You knowwhat, she paid me back right on time. There are some responsible people in the world.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 18:54:05 GMT -5
Just file a claim in your local small claims court- but give him a chance to agree on (and follow) a payment plan first.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2013 18:57:55 GMT -5
Find out what a cat sitter costs. Deduct it from what he owes you and ask him, when you get back, to start paying. He didn't have any issue taking it all at once from you but it looks like, if you get it back at all, it's going to be in dribbles and drabbles, which is even more insulting.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 7, 2013 20:21:20 GMT -5
...:::"Some people who can't manage their finances decide whom to pay based on the consequences and how loud they scream. If you continue to do nothing, I suspect you won't see a dime. Consider this an exercise in assertiveness training with a $1,000 reward at the end. I've always been bad at this but as I get older, I'm getting better at it.":::...
This is very excellent advice. For some people, the above describes EVERY month; and they are not going to voluntarily pay an obligation with zero consequences so long as another threatens to <cut the power, repo the car, evict/foreclose...>. Or perhaps when they have extra money and are deciding whether to take that trip or pay you back, they'll figure out really quickly that if you've waited this long and said nothing, you can wait longer.
I'm glad he is going to take care of your cat, and that at least you can trust him to do that.
I think what was suggested on the previous page: using school as the opener, is a great way to begin the conversation.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Apr 7, 2013 20:25:48 GMT -5
I would like to remain friends, and I don't mind if I get paid in installments. I really don't mind. Robert; I'm glad $1,000 is chump change for you; it isn't for me. Anyway, whether I get the money back or not; I certainly learned my lesson. Steve; I find it difficult to have that sort of conversation. You don't have to feel sympathy for me. That's fine. It's just not easy for me to confront a friend over this. I'll do it, but I dread it. Definitely I'm going to broach my school expenses to bring in the subject. I'm not going to file a small claims court if I don't get paid. It would be too painful for me, worse than just writing off the loan. This person has been a very close friend for many years. He's in this country on his own, just like me. We've given each other moral support and help through the years. If he decides he won't pay I'll let it go, but I would also end the friendship.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 7, 2013 20:29:51 GMT -5
I would like to remain friends, and I don't mind if I get paid in installments. I really don't mind. Robert; I'm glad $1,000 is chump change for you; it isn't for me. Anyway, whether I get the money back or not; I certainly learned my lesson. Steve; I find it difficult to have that sort of conversation. You don't have to feel sympathy for me. That's fine. It's just not easy for me to confront a friend over this. I'll do it, but I dread it. Sometimes, lessons learned are a little expensive, but it pays off in time, ava, with less anxiety and fewer lost friendships. That's what's important, all things considered. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Apr 7, 2013 21:31:55 GMT -5
I understand Ava's hesitation at having the conversation. It's very awkward among friends. It's not like returning something to a store because thats a business relationship only. You don't ask Macy's to come watch your cat. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) . FWIW, I've only run into money loans among friends/family twice. And it was awkward both times. Both times I decided to just write it off so as not to let it mar my relationship. One did pay me back a year later, and one didn't. But writing it off mentally as a gift was how I determined what was more important to me, the money or the friendship. I now try to give money only if I can afford not to get it back. It's very rare, though, that anyone asks.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 7, 2013 21:55:32 GMT -5
I loaned a friend $200 back in 1975. I wrote it off (but not the friendship) when the money wasn't paid back. In 2006, she surprised me by paying me back the $200. I was more than pleasantly surprised. I had forgotten all about it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2013 6:18:18 GMT -5
He had no issue or hesitation in asking you for money. He had to know it was hard for you to help him. Yet, he has income now and doesn't pay you. Who's the real friend here? Trouble is, these people know WHO to ask because they also know WHO they can stiff.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 8, 2013 7:18:36 GMT -5
So if you child borrows money and doesnt pay it back you look at it no differently then if she broke into your house and stole? I sold a car to a guy for $600 on payments. He still owes me $400. I promise you I would be a whole world different in feelings toward him, if he broke into my house and stole even half that. Can you have love for someone you have contempt for? Aren't the two emotions incompatible? I cant imagine having contempt for one of my daughters no matter what they did, maybe for what they did , but not for them. It sounds as if you children are one bad decision away from losing you as a loving parent. Maybe you mean something different then what I am understanding you to be saying, I hope. I'm not sure how this turned around to be about my children. I will always love my children...but if they borrow money and do not repay it, they will never get bailed out again. My goal as a parent is to make my children independent, responsible adults. By continuing to bail them out of their self-created messes, I am doing what the liberals do to the poor...I am making them dependent on me. That is not what a good parent does. I will give my children all the guidance they need but I will never become their banker. A friend is a different situation (at least to me). I have unconditional love for my children. I do not have that for anyone else. But I would feel like a huge failure as a parent if my daughter turned out to be a leech, either to society or friends/family. She has been given opportunities that I could have only dreamed of when I was a child...for her to screw it up would say that I messed up bigtime as a parent.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Apr 8, 2013 10:18:37 GMT -5
I get all that and agree with it. It is the sanctimony and contempt that you seemed to be embracing that I disagreed with. There was no 'contempt' in Miss T's posts. You're the only one showing contempt, as I've read it, and that's of what you consider 'sanctimonious' people who managed to make smarter choices in difficult situations.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 8, 2013 10:38:31 GMT -5
Ask him to borrow $1000 for tuition. If he says "no" then ask him if you can borrow the $1000 that you lent him when he needed it. You won't get the money, but it is the least aggressive way to call him a jackhole.
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