Shift workers

[raeoflyte]

Dh works overnights in a 24/7 vet hospital. Obviously staff meetings can't be held during his shift, so he has to go in at least once a month outside of his shift. I work days so daycare gets tricky when this happens but we make it work.

Another overnighter is pregnant and about to pop. They have a relief worker who can cover the shift, but not the days, so Dh was told he either has to switch which days he works, or pick up a 4th night. Both options suck for us because of daycare arrangements and costs.

I would hate to be the person handling the schedule for a 24/7 operation, and I really don't have any ideas how to do it better. But I'm still frustrated that Dh who has worked there for years and gets steller reviews has to change his schedule to accommodate a new person. Also frustrated that we have less than a months notice on this, when they have had plenty of warning about the coworkers pregnancy and maternity leave plans.

Dh will either pick up a 4th night and all that money will go to daycare, or he will flip his shifts, and we will pay out of pocket another $270 a month for a third half day of daycare. Thankfully our babysitter is extremely flexible and has said a dozen times that we are her priority and she'll move her other jobs around to accommodate pur schedule.

Mostly just venting.

[kgb18]

rae, I understand. DH is a police officer, so they are 24/7. We get his schedule about three weeks in advance. So just yesterday we got the schedule from April 29 through June 1. There is no rhyme or reason to how his chief schedules them. DH was on midnights for a 10-week stretch. He has been on daylights for the past two weeks, and starting mid-week next week he goes on afternoons. His days off vary and are often during the week. And if someone calls in sick, gets hurt, etc., they have to cover which means he sometimes has to work doubles or partial shifts at the last minute.

None of that even takes into account court appearances during the days. It's really confusing and results in a lot of juggling for us.

[Shooby]

   I have always just tried to take the view about accommodating work.  You pretty much just work when they tell you to work.  You can do what you can about the schedule but if you work with a small staff , there are just things you have to do.  So, just make the best of it.  And, there were times i had to spend more on daycare and so forth to accommodate the work schedule.  For someone working off shifts or the medical profession, there are always going to be odd hours, days, etc.  Hopefully, when this  lady comes back things will get back to normal.  And, it is only for a short time so hang in there.

[Phoenix84]

My dad has worked rotating shifts for the last 35 years.  He'll often work a set of 5-7 day shifts, then evenings, and so on.  This includes weekends and holidays.

You just make it work.  I know because of my dad's crazy schedule, my mother was somewhat limited on what hours she could work.  I don't recall it being much of an issue, we just made it work.  Mom worked days and dad worked rotating shifts. 

[Shooby]

Yes.  My best advice about work is that you just don't fret over changes at work.  Things are up and down.  Staff and bosses and schedules and people come and go.  Upsizing, downsizing, new equipment,on and on.  I used to get bent out of shape over certain things, now i don't.  It pays your bills.  It allows you to have a nice lifestyle.  Just make the best of it.

[Shooby]

He can explain it.  Doens't mean they will care one way or the other.  His problems are not their problems.

[raeoflyte]

I agree and that's what we're doing. But I don't see us able to continue on this for much longer. Possibly a year or 2 and that's because we have such flexible babysitting arrangements and parents in town and willing to help.

I won't jeopardize my job to accommodate an always changing schedule at Dh's job since I earn more and carry our benefits.

More and more reasons why the young-uns work overnights. They have the energy, and don't have to rearrange 4 other people's schedule when the sh!t hits the fan.

[Shooby]

Yes.  Basically, you just do it until it no longer works for your family.  And, certainly you can try to work with your employer.  A lot of employers will do what they can to accommodate.  But, things happen.  People have babies, get injured or ill and need time off for surgery, etc.  All i can say is that when those things happen you are sometimes called upon to step it up in the workplace.  But, remember there might be a time others are doing that for you as well.

[raeoflyte]

I don't begrudge the gal on maternity leave, I'm frustrated that management waited until the last minute to schedule a replacement and then requires everyone to jump through hoops.

I'm not counting on this being temporary either. Lots of new moms make other arrangements after having a baby, and I know I wouldn't go back to overnights at that time of my life.

We will just keep trucking. He always does his best to help out. He's told them that he watches the kids during the day, and that extra shifts only pay for a half a day of daycare.

I think there is a mindset that I make a ton, and that we pay for full time care during the week. Because no dad could be responsible for his child(ten) without mom home to help.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 5, 2013 15:47:10 GMT -5 kgb18 said:

rae, I understand. DH is a police officer, so they are 24/7. We get his schedule about three weeks in advance. So just yesterday we got the schedule from April 29 through June 1. There is no rhyme or reason to how his chief schedules them. DH was on midnights for a 10-week stretch. He has been on daylights for the past two weeks, and starting mid-week next week he goes on afternoons. His days off vary and are often during the week. And if someone calls in sick, gets hurt, etc., they have to cover which means he sometimes has to work doubles or partial shifts at the last minute.

None of that even takes into account court appearances during the days. It's really confusing and results in a lot of juggling for us.

I definitely couldn't manage that and it seems so strange. My old real estate boss was also a fire fighter and they worked
24 hours every 3 days. He had a little card with his schedule for the next 2 years.

I would think it would be better for police to be on somewhat regular schedules, barring injury and emergencies obviously.

[Shooby]

   Well, this is true pretty much everywhere.  Managers fail to plan even when they had adequate time (aka a pregnancy) to cover the gaps, but they dont'.  Then, it is a 911 emergency for the people that work there to make it work.  It isn't the best approach but it is common so i do feel your pain.  Been there too when the phone rang and i had other plans and sorry but i have to report to work.  And, in the meantime, maybe it is time to start looking around to move on too. 

[Shooby]

Apr 5, 2013 16:59:10 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Apr 5, 2013 16:14:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

He can explain it.  Doens't mean they will care one way or the other.  His problems are not their problems.

But their staffing problems means he has to donate time like a charity? 

He's not asking for flexibility for his issues, they are asking him for flexibility for their issues.

Big difference.  And he should be able to say "no, that doesn't work for my family"

He does have that option.  He can absolutely say No.  And, they can absolutely choose to retain or fire him.

[raeoflyte]

Dh wasn't hired for a rotating schedule. During interviews he said I can only work these nights, and they hired him with that understanding, and at least 2 others were hired with the same arrangement.

I'm feeling like they need to say upfront that schedules can and will change instead of hiring for set schedules.

Whatev's... We're not going to play hard ball about it right now. We'll see how the next 3 months play out.

Just frustrating.

[Shooby]

It is frustrating.  And, lots of places do it.  They just expect the employees to cover and most of the time you don't have any other choice.  I dont' agree with that but it is what it is.

[Opti]

Apr 5, 2013 16:23:49 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I agree and that's what we're doing. But I don't see us able to continue on this for much longer. Possibly a year or 2 and that's because we have such flexible babysitting arrangements and parents in town and willing to help.

I won't jeopardize my job to accommodate an always changing schedule at Dh's job since I earn more and carry our benefits.

More and more reasons why the young-uns work overnights. They have the energy, and don't have to rearrange 4 other people's schedule when the sh!t hits the fan.

Shift work is tough and seems to have more staffing issues than non shift work. I think it depends on the workplace whether staffing issues hit one shift more than others. For the sub acute facility I work at the nurse staffing is identical over all three shifts so I don't think the overnight has had more or less issues than the other shifts. I know from folks working in group homes getting staffing for overnight shifts oddly is usually easier as many people pick up extra hours at other facilities so many literally sleep part of the time on the job for extra money.

Is there a job he could move into that wasn't shift work? Would it make it easier on the daycare issue?

[Opti]

Sadly Rae I think they are set until someone quits or leaves. I am
back to no regularly scheduled hours because of the last fire & hire.
Hopefully she'll come back and this will just be temporary.

[Shooby]

  Yes a conversation is helpful.  But, did nobody ask how this was going to work while the lady was on Maternity leave?

[alabamagal]

I work in an industry with 24/7 operations. I have worked with shift workers my entire career. I have spent probably 2 years of that time "on shift". The reality of shift work is that the workers have to be available to cover for each other because there is usually a minimum number of people required to be on site at any time. An individual's schedule is affected by other people's absences. Anyone who works in this type of business has to accept that as part of the work environment.

Where I work now there are only 2 production workers per shift (8 total). One of the workers is a 40 year guy that has gotten hurt off the job riding 4-wheelers three times in the past year. Once he broke his ribs and could not work for 8 weeks since they have a very physical job. His co-workers have to "cover" his absence. They are not happy with him, but that is the reality of that type of work.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 5, 2013 17:31:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Yes a conversation is helpful.  But, did nobody ask how this was going to work while the lady was on Maternity leave?

You mean the employees? Management doesn't usually appreciate being micromanaged by the help.

[raeoflyte]

He really does love his job, and doesn't get nearly as frustrated by these things as I do. Although he isn't the one trying to figure out babysitting either.

I like the idea of responding in writing with which option he takes and including how long we are are arranging babysitting to cover this *temporary* change.

I get that you have to roll with the punches and help out, I really do, and he signs up to cover misc. Shifts as much as possible.

[zibazinski]

I don't get the issue. If he is willing to temporarily cover her shift then the pay needs to be commensurate with his sacrifice. It isn't his issue or problem that a co-worker is having a baby. Perhaps the owners or management need to cover the shift. When we owned our business, my EX was the substitute worker for a sick or pregnant employee. Everyone else already was working their jobs. No way would I be okay with it and I just wouldn't do it. They stick him with it because he will do it.

[haapai]

Vent away!  I work a graveyard shift in a 24/7 operation.  All of the decisions get made during the day during the week and lion's share of the work gets done at night and on the weekends.  We're treated like house elves. 

[Shooby]

I don't get the issue. If he is willing to temporarily cover her shift then the pay needs to be commensurate with his sacrifice. It isn't his issue or problem that a co-worker is having a baby. Perhaps the owners or management need to cover the shift. When we owned our business, my EX was the substitute worker for a sick or pregnant employee. Everyone else already was working their jobs. No way would I be okay with it and I just wouldn't do it. They stick him with it because he will do it.

  Saying No isn't always an option unless you are willing to lose your job.  And, you don't simply tell them you want more money.  Yes, you can have a discussion.  Yes, you can ask.  But, most of the time in my experience, they aren't going to do anything other than pay you for the normal time or whatever OT it is.  And, they don't CARE that you have additional expenses.  Your life is not their problem.  Sorry, most companies really don't care.  They just want to know the slot is covered and that's it.  How, when, why or at what cost, they simply don't care.  Business people care about the business and as long as business is getting done and the shifts are covered that is all they care about.  Sorry if that sounds harsh but i have had many years in the workplace and it is best to keep personal things out of it.
  As for just saying you aren't going to do it?  Well, i guess that is your prerogative and it is theirs to fire you or view you in less than a favorable light or as someone who is not a Team Player.  So, you can approach this how you wish.  But, for me, i would just look at it as an opportunity to show my value to the company, to show that i am part of the team and a team player and an opportunity to help my coworker and pick up some extra cash with some extra shifts.  Life happens to all of us and there will be a time when someone has to cover your shifts as well.  A little goodwill goes a long way.

[Deleted]

Yes, you can have a discussion.  Yes, you can ask.  But, most of the time in my experience, they aren't going to do anything other than pay you for the normal time or whatever OT it is.  And, they don't CARE that you have additional expenses. 

  Good morning, friend.  Have a great day.

Everyone's replaceable in company's eyes. Especially now, with current job market. 

[zibazinski]

I doubt the all night shift in a vet clinic is prime on anyone's list of jobs to do. Frankly, they simply need to hire another person. Doubtful she will even come back. If they think she will, the new person can be on a 90 day probationary period. If she does, the new person can be let go. It's getting to be summer. Can't you hire a student?

[Shooby]

  Hi snow! 

  Yes, jobs can come and go.  And, i do believe in asking and trying to negotiate what you want.  There are times when you can stand on what you want and push the issue or not.  But, i have also learned that you cannot predict what kind of response you will get from management.  Some management will be more willing to negotiate.  Some management take any issues as a personal affront.  You have to realize that it might not play out as you predict.
  Case in point.  Myself and 2 colleagues of mine were employed.  We decided to start our own business.  Our plan was to start our business AND continue providing services to our current employer.  My partner wanted to "give notice" very early on.  I told her that was not wise and we dont' know how they will react.  She just assumed we would continue providing services at the current business while also embarking on our business venture.  We all hoped it would work out that way because we all had a very good relationship.  Anyway, i said No, i was not going to disclose any of this until we had all our ducks in a row.  Anyway, when we finally did give notice, the response was "don't let the door hit you on the way out" kind of thing.  She was shocked.  I wasn't and i had anticipated that may be.  And, for me, no matter because our business worked great.
  So , be prepared.

[raeoflyte]

If employers want employees who are available on a moments notice, then they are going to turn away a lot of quality workers. How many people can say that their job is their #1 priority? In the top few for most of us, but I know once I had kids I no longer lived and breathed my job.

I don't know who or what point you're arguing shoob since I've repeatedly said that Dh will work out something with them. You're talking about building goodwill, but in the end the only thing that matters is if the job is a good fit on both sides. If they can't cover a shift with 7 months notice how well would 2 weeks go down?

Wwbg's tag line is appropriate since either party can choose to end the employment. However, just like a relationship I wouldn't stay at a job that turned everything into a power struggle. I tell my job what I bring to the table and can do for them in exchange for what they can do for me. I'll give more to an employer that keeps up their end of the agreement, and go all dark on the employer who doesn't.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 6, 2013 8:22:22 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Dh just accepted a new position at the same company. The new position is for an afternoon shift, which is what he works now (and has been for the past 15 years). The night before he was suppose to start the new job, somebody (a coworker) called and said "do you know you're on the schedule to be here at 6am tomorrow?' Dh told him there must be some sort of mistake, because he's going to be working afternoons. Five phone calls later, dh discovered that the first few weeks on the job he needs to work the day shift for training. He's freaking out because he's in school during the day. This is his last semester before FINALLY graduating. He had to miss his classes all of last week, for sure he'll be missing this week, and it looks like he'll have to miss a third week too. He is absolutely frustrated, but there is nothing he can do.

 

Omg-I'd be so frustrated! I hope they get him off days asap and he can catch up in his classes. I really don't understand the lack of communication in the most basic if things-like when to come in on your first day.

And belated congrats to your Dh on the new job. Does this get him out of the union that was going to strike?

[Shooby]

    I am just making some points from my personal background.   As for what employers "should" do, well of course they should treat their employees well.  But, they all don't.  As for being an employee, you do it as long as it works for YOU and then when it doesn't you can move on if you choose.  The relationship has to work for both parties. 
 

[raeoflyte]

Apr 6, 2013 8:31:31 GMT -5 haapai said:

Vent away!  I work a graveyard shift in a 24/7 operation.  All of the decisions get made during the day during the week and lion's share of the work gets done at night and on the weekends.  We're treated like house elves. 

House elves unite!

That is why Dh goes in to as many day meetings as he can, and participates in as many off duty team building activities as possible-with kids in tow typically. He wants to make sure that days know who he is, and what they deal with.

It really is hard not to have animosity between days and nights.