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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2013 18:35:31 GMT -5
Shooby - Muttley beat me to it, but this is a professional, licensed daycare and there are multiple adults employed to run it (whether or not the two assistants are registered - well, that's the whole question but they do exist). I wouldn't be comfortable with a "home daycare" that wasn't licensed and didn't have multiple caregivers either. No way in hell would I let Babybird be the sole baby among a bunch of rowdy toddlers if one person was running the whole show by herself.
I find it weird that apparently she has been inspected and passed recently but no one thought to make sure her attendants were registered? Shouldn’t that be something the state checks? Drama, it's absolutely something the state checks. Every year they do a random inspection - she has no warning they're coming. She passed in 2012 with no problems. If they did her 2013 today and found unregistered assistants there, they'd fine her severely and make a note of the failed inspection in her records. It's a major violation. So it makes no sense to me that she didn't register them (or indeed would have hired someone in the first place who couldn't pass a fingerprint test) when it appears she's been doing everything else right for the past decade.
I'm leaning toward (and hoping) there's some kind of glitch and she really did register them.
clearly your mileage varies regarding being taken care of by one adult. my DD went to an in-home provider that was licensed for 6 kids, run by one woman. DD was there until she went to kindergarten. DS1 started there at 10 weeks and DS2 started there at 10 weeks and both stayed until the commute to there from our new house became too much. One of my friends then took the infant slot (up to age 2) freed up by DS2. she was the absolute most fabulous daycare. she had a preschool program, was licensed and I can count on one hand the number of sick days she took in the 5+ years we used her.
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cameragrrl
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Post by cameragrrl on Feb 28, 2013 18:43:01 GMT -5
You may want to check back with the licensing board. My neighbor runs a similar daycare/school out of her home. She was originally licensed for 6 toddlers, but wanted to expand, so she added another teacher. Without that additional adult, she would not have been approved for additional kids. It seems odd that they would allow more kids but not know about the aides. This is Santa Clara County for reference. Good luck either way.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 28, 2013 18:45:43 GMT -5
I say no because if anything went wrong you would be kicking yourself for ignoring what you saw as a potential red flag. Sure, it may not be a red flag at all & bad things can happen even with no red flags. But, you saw it & questioned your choice. You will remember that & it could haunt you if something happens - of course this would also depend on your personality & whether you have a tendecy to blame yourself for things (I tend to do this ).
Good thought, but no. I'll try to explain more clearly... When I say I have awful instincts about people, it's because my red flag indicator is a little lazy. 1. When I feel something is wrong, THAT is reliable. And I always listen. BUT... 2. Lots of times I don't feel anything is wrong when actually something IS wrong.
In other words, I don't get "false positives" - if I feel something is off, something's off. But I DO get a lot of "false negatives" - I don't feel like anything is off, but actually something's off. I hope that makes sense. So in THIS situation, the fact that I FEEL everything is okay and I can trust Nancy is not good enough for me. This is not a situation where I feel it is okay to go with my gut just because my gut says she's okay. I need outside confirmation. I don't trust ONLY my gut when it gives me a green light because it's given me the green light on the wrong people many times before. My gut says Nancy is fine and she'll take good care of Babybird. I didn't meet the assistants but my mom did and if she thinks they're fine, that's good enough for me. HOWEVER, because I've been wrong about people so many times, I'm going to take the red flag from an outside source very seriously. And if Nancy doesn't have a damn good explanation, then the outside source red flag is going to overrule my gut instinct that everything is okay. Does that make sense?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 28, 2013 18:49:05 GMT -5
Without that additional adult, she would not have been approved for additional kids. It seems odd that they would allow more kids but not know about the aides. This is Santa Clara County for reference. Good luck either way.
That's the part that makes no sense to me. She was approved for extra children last year - the licensing center had that info on file too. She had to register an assistant when she did that. So it's not like she didn't know this was a requirement - she had to register her previous assistant before she could be licensed for more than ten kids!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 28, 2013 18:59:02 GMT -5
That makes sense. Honestly I can't give a real opinion on whether this is a red flag or not. Which is why my answer came down to: Would you blame yourself if you put Babybird in that daycare & something bad happened? If no, then go with your gut & listen to whatever your mom says about it. If yes, go to a different daycare because guilt over something like this is a bitch. And as a little aside - how many kids does she have? Having 3 grown adults running a home daycare seems excessive to me unless the assistants are both part-time & work opposite shifts. Even then something seems odd about it to me. Maybe others have more experience in this, but licensed daycare here only need 1 adult for 5-10 kids (depending on age), so why have 2-3 adults? Unless she is rarely present & she has hired these assistants to basically do all the care. Does anyone else have experience in this area - do many home daycares have multiple assistants? That sends up a red flag more than anything just because I haven't seen that. Between that & the fact the assistants aren't screened, maybe it all is a red flag.
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cameragrrl
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Post by cameragrrl on Feb 28, 2013 19:07:15 GMT -5
Angel: The home day care near me could take no more than 6 kids per adult. If you put infants into the mix, the ratio goes down to 2-3 kids per adult.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 28, 2013 19:14:04 GMT -5
Angel: The home day care near me could take no more than 6 kids per adult. If you put infants into the mix, the ratio goes down to 2-3 kids per adult. Gotcha & in a previous post FB said they have over 10 kids, so I could see needing 3 adults. I just haven't seen any home daycares that size. How old is Babybird now? How old are the other kids? A lot of children around an infant would make me nervous, but I think that maybe she is a lot older than I remember. I have no concept of how much time has passed since she was born, my memory is going to shit.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 28, 2013 19:31:55 GMT -5
And as a little aside - how many kids does she have? Having 3 grown adults running a home daycare seems excessive to me unless the assistants are both part-time & work opposite shifts.
One assistant is full time; the other just does a couple days a week and fills in when assistant #1 is out sick or on vacation or whatever. When Nancy herself goes away, both assistants fill in for her.
Three people sounded perfect to me for a home daycare because I can't imagine keeping track of that many kids alone, and this way they can split forces if necessary. I think Nancy has like 13 kids on the roster in total, but they're not all there at the same time. Most of them are part timers.
Babybird is almost five months old. She'd be the youngest by a wide margin (at least a couple of years). That's the other reason I'm happy there are two people. I want one of them to be keeping an especially close eye on my kid!
I think my mom said there were five kids on the day she would be going - all girls, so of course they thought Babybird was adorable and wanted to play Mommy. She got a little freaked out by all the big kids, but that's part of the point - I want her to get used to other children. It would be nice if there was another baby there, but she does still go to the regular babysitter two afternoons a week, so she gets to play with her baby boyfriend on a regular basis.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2013 20:50:41 GMT -5
Hmm.....very weird. It doesn't make any sense. I can't think of what exactly is going on, but I would be like you and any other parent in feeling it's a red flag...I mean who would risk their reputation and livelihood, for any reason, if they were a credible, professional business? Something is off somewhere...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2013 20:50:58 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this, but here goes.
What does your mom think? I get that you don't trust your "hinky-meter", but I think you trust your mom's.
You are talking about ONE DAY A WEEK. Not five or four or three or two. ONE.
Firebird I think there is something you don't realize: you may well find the ideal childcare arrangement for Babybird, and then, once you do, it will change. Maybe Nancy will move, or your favorite assistant will, or she will win the lottery and close up shop.
Unlikely about the lottery, I know, lol. My point is that THINGS CHANGE. I have four kids, I always worked a "big" PT (3-4 days a week). As soon as I thought I found the "perfect" solution, something happened, and I'd have to find another one.
I'd do it. I'd google all names and TALK TO OTHER MOMS THAT HAVE USED NANCY'S DAYCARE. But if I didn't find anything untoward on the internet or in talking to SEVERAL moms, I'd do it, once a week.
I'd care a LOT more about what other moms had to say than about the fact that these two women aren't registered. Or else I'd pay for a "background check" on them.
Unlike many others, I think it's very possible that Nancy hasn't registered them because of negligence or ignorance.
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Feb 28, 2013 21:17:43 GMT -5
She gave us the two assistants' social security numbers. This seems like an incredibly foolhardy thing to do if she knew they would fail a background check and/or not be registered with her daycare when I called up. There was no confusion about this; she knew I was planning to call.
Am I the only one that found this to be a huge red flag? Not because of the lack of being registered, but because she's just giving out other people's SS numbers, no problem? I know it doesn't directly affect her ability to care for Babybird, but it would sure make me question her judgement in general.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2013 21:33:24 GMT -5
That's a great point, Spartan.
Firebird, there is a reason that some careers are better paid than others. It doesn't necessarily mean that this would not be a good place to put Babybird.
But, to me, it DOES mean that you can't necessarily put your own "list" on Nancy. Because if Nancy was capable of doing and / or managing all those things, she probably wouldn't be doing home daycare, she'd probably have gotten a business degree and be looking for daycare for her own kids.
She can still provide a loving and safe environment for Babybird, especially just one day a week.
If your mom has an extra day or two to spare, AND you decide to try Nancy's place out, could your mom hang around and stay with Babybird for a day or two?
To me, their reaction to that suggestion would be VERY telling.
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share88
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Post by share88 on Mar 1, 2013 1:33:08 GMT -5
Spartan said what I was thinking . . .. she gives out her assistants ssn to stangers? wtf?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 1, 2013 10:20:37 GMT -5
She had to register an assistant when she did that. So it's not like she didn't know this was a requirement - she had to register her previous assistant before she could be licensed for more than ten kids!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> This is really confusing to me. So her assistant that has been with her a “long time” is unregistered but the licensing board checks this when they approved her to take on more kids. But that woman is still unlicensed and the state board didn’t know that till you called them. Do I have this right? If I have it right then WTF is going on? I know the state board told you it was a no-no but I’d be calling them back and saying that if it as big a no-no as they say then how the hell did they miss it the last inspection go around and it took ME calling to tip them off? I could see her moving in a new assistant and squeaking by until the next inspection but you would think lady #1 would have been caught a long time ago, especially if she has recently been inspected in order to be approved to take on new kids.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2013 10:26:06 GMT -5
The more this goes on, the less concerned I would be. This is some kind of red tape glitch. Talk to "Nancy" about it.
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Mar 1, 2013 11:23:36 GMT -5
Is it possible that you have to renew licensing and somehow her assistant missed a deadline to reregister?
Also - seriously - check out the daycare yourself. Take a day off from work and pop in for an unannounced visit. I know that your mom is awesome, but this is one of those things that you really do need to do yourself, not your mom.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 1, 2013 11:33:20 GMT -5
I use a home daycare. I hired her because my friend, who is an anal retentive nurse, was happy with her, so I figured I'd be happy with her. I also know lots of other people who used her, and she is well regarded by the teachers in town. I didn't interview anyone else. I did a quick 15 minute meet and greet when I was pregnant and figured "good enough"
She has no registered helpers, but her daughter, daughter in law, husband, and neighbor often pop in and help, even though they aren't registered. She is often over the limit with kids, especially on snow days or a school holiday.
The kids love her, she's great with them, she treats them like her own kids.
Meh, nothing's perfect.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 1, 2013 11:45:55 GMT -5
Alright, first let me relate Nancy's explanation and then I'll answer specific questions.
I called her last night and explained that while her record was clean, the licensing agency had related to me that her current assistants weren't registered. According to Nancy, both have passed the requisite tests and, while not yet technically registered with her facility, are listed in the licensing center database and legally permitted to work with the children while she completes the process of getting them affiliated with her facility, which I guess can take awhile.
I can check this - and I certainly plan to do so - by calling the licensing center back today and asking them to run the assistants' social security numbers. If they check out the way Nancy says they do, I'm fine with Babybird joining this daycare.
I don't really care whether or not they're technically "registered" with Nancy's daycare - that's her issue, not mine. If she's risking huge fines by not having them legally affiliated with her agency before they're officially registered, that's not my problem. I care only that these women have actually passed the fingerprint/TB/first aid tests required by law.
According to Nancy, they have. Once I confirm that, we're good to go. If I call the center back and they're not listed, it means she straight-up lied to me and I'd terminate ANY daycare arrangement if I found out the provider lied to me for any reason. But I don't expect that will be the case.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 1, 2013 11:53:02 GMT -5
The Assistant daycare director’s husband is often in/out of my daycare center. He does a lot of painting/repair for them thru his company. As far as I know he isn’t registered to be there like the staff has to be. Doesn’t bother me at all. Speaking of nothing is perfect one of the daycares in Omaha that has been in operation a long time just got cited for leaving a kid in a van. Second time in two years. As of last night three people had been fired and the state was looking at revoking their license since this is the second time they have been cited for it. So you can pick a by the book on paper perfect daycare and still have them one day royally screw up. You have decide what you can live with. There is no such thing as a perfect daycare out there.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 1, 2013 11:56:03 GMT -5
Drama, were the kids ok? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) Maybe I don't want to know the answer ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png)
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 1, 2013 12:01:58 GMT -5
What does your mom think? I get that you don't trust your "hinky-meter", but I think you trust your mom's.
debthaven, I do trust my mom's and DH's much more than I trust my own. If all three of us concur that a situation is cool, that's much more reliable to me than if I'm the only one who feels it is. My point is that THINGS CHANGE. I have four kids, I always worked a "big" PT (3-4 days a week). As soon as I thought I found the "perfect" solution, something happened, and I'd have to find another one.
Well, that's the whole point of us finding a temporary daycare for Babybird. One of the reasons we liked this one so much was because if my mom were to go out of town or get sick, we could arrange for Nancy to take Babybird more days than usual - all week, if necessary. Since we had such a rough time last month with every last one of us getting sick and needing to find alternate babysitters, we decided it was time to find a regular, reliable backup. So I do realize that things change. That's why I liked Nancy's setup - it's open to changes. She's licensed for way more kids than she has now so if for some reason we needed a full-time slot for Babybird anytime soon, there's a good chance she could get one here - with the added benefit that she'd already know the other children and the DCPs. She's about to hit the stranger anxiety age, so the sooner we can get her used to DCPs other than me, DH, my parents, or her usual babysitter, the better. Am I the only one that found this to be a huge red flag? Not because of the lack of being registered, but because she's just giving out other people's SS numbers, no problem?
Spartan, she didn't give them to us until after she'd met not only me and my mom but Babybird herself and we made a serious representation that we were looking for daycare. If what Nancy told me last night is true, then we have to have this information in order to check up on them. We'd also need it for any kind of background check, which I'd certainly insist upon if the state didn't. I understand your concern but I don't see a way around it. If she wouldn't give us this information so we could check up on them, I wouldn't let Babybird into this daycare. If your mom has an extra day or two to spare, AND you decide to try Nancy's place out, could your mom hang around and stay with Babybird for a day or two?Yes, this is a possibility. My mom is planning to stay for at least the first couple hours on Babybird's first day to ease the transition. But after that, as long as everything seems okay I want her to leave. I think it will hold Babybird back if my mom regularly stays with her. If Grandma's right there, Babybird's not going to be interested in adjusting to the new DCPs. Regarding Nancy's experience, she has SIX children of her own (plus two stepchildren) and has run two very successful daycares - this one in California and another in Massachusetts where she used to live. She's been running daycare for over thirty years. I honestly can't imagine why anyone would do such a thing unless they genuinely loved working with kids. I'm sure she could do something else easily, but this seems to be her passion.
This is really confusing to me. So her assistant that has been with her a “long time” is unregistered but the licensing board checks this when they approved her to take on more kids.
Drama - no, sorry. The assistant she registered when she was getting licensed for more kids is no longer with her. The two assistants she has now (one full time and one part time) are both pretty new. I think one has been with her for a few months, the other a few weeks. It seems that the registration for the two new ones just hasn't been completed yet.
Also - seriously - check out the daycare yourself. Take a day off from work and pop in for an unannounced visit. I know that your mom is awesome, but this is one of those things that you really do need to do yourself, not your mom. telephus, why do you say that? Just curious. I mean, it's not a bad idea by any means - and we certainly DO plan to randomly pop in and make sure things are going well - but whether it's me doing that or my mom doesn't really matter to me.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 1, 2013 12:07:40 GMT -5
For what it's worth, we've lost every teacher/dc provider at our kids dcp. The only one left is the director and she's been promoted and leaves mid March. And we've only been there since Jan. 2012. So assistants come and go. DH and I are concerned but watching and waiting. We'd planned on keeping Cabe there for another 18 months or so, until he can start 4k/jr kindy. He's got a late Oct. b-day.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 1, 2013 12:24:46 GMT -5
For what it's worth, we've lost every teacher/dc provider at our kids dcp. The only one left is the director and she's been promoted and leaves mid March. And we've only been there since Jan. 2012. So assistants come and go. DH and I are concerned but watching and waiting. We'd planned on keeping Cabe there for another 18 months or so, until he can start 4k/jr kindy. He's got a late Oct. b-day. Wow, that sucks. One of the reasons I love my daycare is they have almost no turnover. 3 of DD's teachers are the same ones that DS had when he started there over 3 years ago.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 1, 2013 12:25:01 GMT -5
Drama, were the kids ok?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> Yeah in both instances the kids were totally fine. But the last one was on the bus for seven hours before anyone noticed he was missing. Parents are rightly pissed. Not much detail on the first incident, it seems to have been mentioned solely because this is infraction #2 which means the daycare is in deep doo doo with the state. Not that they weren’t in deep doo doo with the first one, but you only get one pass apparently. First one was a fine and probation. Since they did it it again they are now looking at being shut down.
We’ve had several people come and go at our daycare as well since we started using them. For awhile they had toddlers/infants together because they didn’t have enough teachers to divide them up into one class each. We never had our parents visit, but DH and I both would drop in at random during the first few days. Part of it was to get DH comfortable with the idea of daycare (he never went to one). The other was I wanted to see if they would behave differently around me vs him. Plus he gets off earlier than I do. He would drop in unannounced at 2 pm vs them knowing I get off at 4 pm. No time to clean things up before I arrived. Sounds kinda paranoid now that I write it down but it made us both feel better to know we saw the exact same thing no matter what time of day or who picked her up. </FONT></P>
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 1, 2013 12:34:02 GMT -5
Drama, were the kids ok?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> Yeah in both instances the kids were totally fine. But the last one was on the bus for seven hours before anyone noticed he was missing. Parents are rightly pissed. Thank goodness! I would be pissed too! I would honestly want some charges filed because that has to be some sort of negligence. In my daycare I would be very surprised if that happened simply because they do kid counts all the time & always carry paperwork saying which kids are in. I wonder if that is a general rule or if my daycare is a little more strict on this stuff. I suppose if somehow they missed marking in a kid at the beginning of the day & then the kid disappeared before the next count it could happen.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 1, 2013 12:48:02 GMT -5
Just called the licensing center back. Both ladies are indeed listed on their database, which means they've passed the tests and are cleared to work with children.
So it sounds like the fact that they're not registered with Nancy's specific daycare is just a red tape issue. I feel good about going ahead now. We'll see how it goes.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 1, 2013 12:51:24 GMT -5
In my daycare I would be very surprised if that happened simply because they do kid counts all the time & always carry paperwork saying which kids are in<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> That’s how they noticed he was missing according to the news.
I don’t know if the parents personally filed charges but the state is cracking down BIG time. It wouldn’t have been in the news otherwise. At least three people have been fired as of last night’s news and that’s the tip of the iceburg. If I see anything else about it in the news tonight I’ll share.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2013 12:56:17 GMT -5
Speaking of nothing is perfect one of the daycares in Omaha that has been in operation a long time just got cited for leaving a kid in a van. Second time in two years. As of last night three people had been fired and the state was looking at revoking their license since this is the second time they have been cited for it. So you can pick a by the book on paper perfect daycare and still have them one day royally screw up. You have decide what you can live with. There is no such thing as a perfect daycare out there.
Why are daycares taking kids in a van anywhere? That would not be cool in my book.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 1, 2013 12:59:06 GMT -5
Speaking of nothing is perfect one of the daycares in Omaha that has been in operation a long time just got cited for leaving a kid in a van. Second time in two years. As of last night three people had been fired and the state was looking at revoking their license since this is the second time they have been cited for it. So you can pick a by the book on paper perfect daycare and still have them one day royally screw up. You have decide what you can live with. There is no such thing as a perfect daycare out there.
Why are daycares taking kids in a van anywhere? That would not be cool in my book. Maybe it was a before/after school program. Or they were going on a field trip. My kid's daycare does fieldtrips occassionally. The coolest was when somehow they got it worked out to get the kids onto Peterson AFB & have them tour some planes. Awesome field trip, although probably underappreciated by 3 yr olds. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 1, 2013 13:00:25 GMT -5
Glad you got it figured out FB ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/thumbsup.png)
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