Daycare red flag - WWYD?

[Firebird]

We've been looking for a part-time daycare for Babybird and I thought we'd found the perfect one so this TOTALLY sucks.  But before I make any decision, I wanted to get some feedback - just in case it's somehow not that big a deal.

The daycare we were considering is a home daycare, run by a really nice lady I'll call Nancy.  Nancy's got two assistants, who I didn't meet.  My mom and I went to meet with Nancy at her home to see the facility (at night, no kids present).  She answered our questions and showed us around, and we really liked what we saw. 

My mom brought Babybird over the following morning so she could see the daycare "in action" with all the kids present.  Everything went very well again, no problems.  We asked Nancy to tentatively hold the Wednesday slot for Babybird, pending a call to the daycare licensing facility to check her out.

I just made that call, and everything seemed fine at first.  Nancy passed all her inspections and was approved somewhat recently for additional children in the program. 

But then I asked about her assistants and found... they weren't registered with the facility.  By law, each person working with the children is supposed to be fingerprinted and TB tested, and those reports need to be on file with the licensing facility before they ever go near the kids.

I know one of her assistants is fairly new but the other one has been with her awhile - and in any case, they're both actively working with the kids without being registered.  This is a HUGE no-no according to the lady I spoke with - minimum $1k fine if they catch her (which they just did by me asking about it).

I'm pretty sure this is a dealbreaker... BUT... having never done this before, what if Nancy 1) provides an explanation (though I can't imagine what it would be), and 2) immediately gets both assistants registered (assuming they pass, obviously)?  Could I look beyond this and put Babybird with them?  Or would you take a pass on a daycare that made this kind of mistake, full stop? 

[Deleted]

I think the fact that you already outted her makes the rest moot. Do you want to send your kids there possibly knowing that you cost the lady a few grand?

[Deleted]

It could be a paperwork glitch at the licensing facility. It seems strange to me that she would do everything but register her assistants.

[Deleted]

I would take a pass.  There have been a few cases here in OR where there were people around the children (kids/grandkids/acquaintances) of the registered daycare provider who abused children.  I'd want to make sure every person coming into contact with the kids has been checked out. At the end of the day getting fingerprinted and TB tested is really easy - I've had it done myself.  So if a basic measure isn't taken then I'd be very concerned that other things are being ignored as well.

[Deleted]

Please.  I had DH in a family home his whole childhood (one birth through K, the second through early grade school).  It was all under the legal radar. They were never licensed, inspected, fingerprinted, background-checked, etc.  I figured it was just a way for the gubmint to get more $$ and get their claws into more things and that, in the end, you need to rely on your own instincts.  There's no guarantee even if the firm meets legal requirements- it may just weed out the worst cases.

It sounds like you were impressed overall.  I would ask fo ran explanation of the 2 unlicensed workers, though- her explanation, and how she handles it, will give you some more information on what she's like.  I wouldn't consider it an instant deal-breaker, though.

[Deleted]

I'm a bad mom.  I never contacted the licensing facility on either of the daycares my son went to.   

I would just ask her about it.  But Archie is right, if you did cost her $1000 she might be pissed.  However, I doubt they're going to just fine her off of what you said, it would more likely be a situation where they did one of their surprise visits and found some unlicensed caregivers there.

[Peace77]

I would ask her about registration for the assistants.  

Perhaps, She didn't realize it was necessary.   If she responds with, "I didn't know, I will take care of it ASAP",  I would be fine with it.  I would ask her to told a spot for your daughter and she will start as soon as the registration is finished.

[Firebird]

Feb 28, 2013 14:13:57 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

It could be a paperwork glitch at the licensing facility. It seems strange to me that she would do everything but register her assistants.

That's why I was considering giving her a chance to explain.  Why the hell would she do everything else right and yet miss this simple thing - knowing full well I was planning to call and check? 

It made me wonder if there was a possibility of a mistake. 

[Firebird]

in the end, you need to rely on your own instincts.

My instincts about people totally suck.  I've been screwed before by trusting my instincts.  Which is why we're going by the book on this one.  The only people who have taken care of Babybird to date are people I'd trust with my life, or they were personally referred by people I'd trust with my life.

I would just ask her about it.  But Archie is right, if you did cost her $1000 she might be pissed.

Sure, she might be - but if she knew I was going to call, why wouldn't she take care of this ahead of time?  For that matter, why wouldn't she have done it to begin with knowing she was risking a huge fine and a stain on her otherwise clean record?

I would ask her to told a spot for your daughter and she will start as soon as the registration is finished.

If she has an explanation and doesn't hate me for outing her, this is what I'm leaning toward doing.  Obviously Babybird isn't spending a second with these people alone until the assistants ARE registered.  Can't take a chance - she'd be their only baby at the moment. 

But if they're clean and there's some kind of explanation for the delay, I would really like to utilize this daycare.  It's so perfect for us.  I just don't want to be an idiot.

[Tennesseer]

Did you personally make the daycare licensing facility aware of the two unlicensed workers?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

First I would go to the state licensing web site and look it up for myself (it’s easy just type in your state followed by “daycare laws” and the site will come up) so I can read them for myself.

Because they can vary depending on the size and type of daycare you are using.  For instance in Nebraska a person watching 4 kids or less doesn’t even qualify as a daycare.   Home daycares have different rules than facilities and everywhere in-between.

That way I have a good basis to discuss my concerns with her and not just “well so-and-so said” and have a sound basis to judge her response.  I can’t know if she is BS-ing me if I don’t know all the rules she is supposed to play by.

I work in an industry with an insane amount of red tape.  So I can understand how someone can occasionally get tripped up in it.  The new employee I could see and possibly let pass but it’s the one that’s been with her forever that would raise my eyebrows and I’d like an explaination.

Iif this is a dealbreaker by all means write her off.  However if you really like her and you are on the fence then give her a chance to explain the situation and decide one way or the other.

[midjd]

I don't think your instincts suck - but I do think you may be ignoring/repressing them because this daycare is otherwise perfect.

Sure, she might be - but if she knew I was going to call, why wouldn't she take care of this ahead of time? For that matter, why wouldn't she have done it to begin with knowing she was risking a huge fine and a stain on her otherwise clean record?

Good question - and the fact that I can't think of any reasonable answer would be enough to keep me away.

(Do keep in mind that I am highly cynical and see people at their worst on a daily basis.)

[Deleted]

It sounds like you will be costing her some money and she probably will be mad at you. She will know it was you that outed her because otherwise how would you ask her about the helpers not being registered? Maybe there is a reason why they are not registered, couldn't pass a background check for example.

Have you seen the video I posted on my facebook about this babysitter VERY VERY VERY badly abusing an 11 month old? She apparently did it because she was mad at the parents (who knows... she seemed like a real psycho to me). If you haven't watched it, I don't know if you want to watch it because it really is horrifying! So bad that if somebody did that to my child, I would be sitting in jail because the bitch would be dead. I am always paranoid of something happening and this is why I prefer a professional daycare facility setting with other people around.

[Deleted]

Also, the fact that you are calling this a "red flag" makes me think you are definitely not comfortable with it. Just skip this daycare, there are plenty of daycares. Don't talk yourself into one that doesn't feel right.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I would really like to utilize this daycare.  It's so perfect for us.  I just don't want to be an idiot. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

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 I got called a bad parent on a daycare thread once because I used the rules “the man” made up to weed daycares off my list.<o:p></o:p>

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I had to start somewhere to narrow down the list.   It’s a pretty good place to start.   Once those checks were ticked I could start working my way thru the other intangible/personal things that I wanted from a daycare.<o:p></o:p>

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I’ve wrote off daycares for a lot less than not having their staff licensed, so don’t feel bad if you choose this as a dealbreaker, she’s your kid and this is your money so you have a right to be picky.<o:p></o:p>

[Firebird]

Did you personally make the daycare licensing facility aware of the two unlicensed workers?

Tennesseer - All I did was ask about them.  I made no official complaint but whether they'll check up on her now as a result of my question... I'm not sure.

First I would go to the state licensing web site and look it up for myself (it’s easy just type in your state followed by “daycare laws” and the site will come up) so I can read them for myself.

Drama - I'm not sure I understand the distinction between that and calling the state licensing center, which is what I did. 

I don't think your instincts suck - but I do think you may be ignoring/repressing them because this daycare is otherwise perfect.

Mid - I was speaking in general.  In this particular case, if I'd gotten a bad vibe off this place at all, we wouldn't even have gotten this far - in other words, I'd trust myself if I got a bad vibe in this situation (better safe than sorry) but I'm saying the fact that I got a good vibe isn't enough for me, because I have on occasion erred on the side of being too trusting.

More later, gotta run to a meeting.

[midjd]

In this particular case, if I'd gotten a bad vibe off this place at all, we wouldn't even have gotten this far - in other words, I'd trust myself if I got a bad vibe in this situation (better safe than sorry) but I'm saying the fact that I got a good vibe isn't enough for me, because I have on occasion erred on the side of being too trusting.

Good vibe or not, I think referring to this as a "red flag," saying "I'm pretty sure this is a dealbreaker... BUT" and running it by the YM crowd indicate that there are just as many bad vibes as good.

I've typed out SO many new threads and ended up deleting them, because as I'm typing, I say, "Why am I asking this? I know what to do."  It's the situations in which I'm really on the fence that I end up posting. I'm not sure if you're the same way - but the fact that this daycare is just about perfect and you're still ambivalent says a lot, I think.

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[swasat]

I would skip it. I am like bunnysmom. I don't like to take chances when it comes to my kids childcare. I understand that sometimes my fears might be ill founded, but it is what it is. I'd rather not take chances because all it takes is one time for something to go wrong.......

If its a red flag to you now, would you have the peace of mind later if you put babybird there later? If yes, then go ahead and use Nancy. If you think you will always a red flag somewhere at the back of your mind then skip it.

[Deleted]

You just ratted her out, why would you want to send your kids there?

I agree with Archie on this one.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Drama - I'm not sure I understand the distinction between that and calling the state licensing center, which is what I did.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

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Oh never mind then, I didn’t realize that’s what you did when I read your OP.<o:p></o:p>

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If it’s a deal breaker then don’t talk yourself into using them anyhow because you’ll always be looking over your shoulder.  <o:p></o:p>

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 I didn’t use a daycare because the women who answered the phone was a complete bitch when I called to inquire about openings.<o:p></o:p>

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 According to my MIL this place is wonderful (my niece and nephew use it) but the way the lady behaved on the phone left me with a bad taste in my mouth.  Not only was it horrible customer service but it made me wonder how she deals with kids if she can’t even be civil during a phone call.<o:p></o:p>

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It was a dealbreaker for me.  Now apparently my SIL didn’t have the same experience as me.  But I didn’t want to be giving someone who couldn’t even be civil on the phone my hard earned money nor did I want that person in charge of my kid.<o:p></o:p>

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Do you want to give your hard earned money to someone who can’t follow the rules?  Do you want her in charge of Babybird?<o:p></o:p>

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I had my list of immediate dealbreakers for daycares I was researching.  The above about customer service was one and then following the law was another.   It didn’t matter how wonderful they were otherwise if those boxes weren’t ticked they were off the table.<o:p></o:p>

[Deleted]

"Do you want to give your hard earned money to someone who can’t follow the rules?  Do you want her in charge of Babybird"

Exactly that! And I am sure there is a reason why she did all the rest of the requirements but not this one, which is a major one considering these people could be convicted felons, child molesters/abusers, ... Or it could be a simple oversight but I doubt it.

[Firebird]

Maybe there is a reason why they are not registered, couldn't pass a background check for example.

bunnysmom - She gave us the two assistants' social security numbers.  This seems like an incredibly foolhardy thing to do if she knew they would fail a background check and/or not be registered with her daycare when I called up.  There was no confusion about this; she knew I was planning to call.

I am always paranoid of something happening and this is why I prefer a professional daycare facility setting with other people around.

For all intents and purposes, this *is* a professional daycare - she's licensed for quite a few children.  It just takes place in her home.  And I loved the setup she has going.  It's incredibly organized, the "daycare" area is totally separate from the main part of the house, and she's got a very well thought out daily routine with the kids that keeps them stimulated at all different ages. 

Also, the fact that you are calling this a "red flag" makes me think you are definitely not comfortable with it.

I need an explanation, but assuming there is one, I'm very comfortable with the daycare.  Nothing else stuck out.  My mom said all the kids looked very happy - most of them have been with her for years.  I do plan to call a couple parents to get direct references but her program actually struck me as the best of the three daycares we've visited so far (the other two were more traditional brick and mortar daycares).

It's the situations in which I'm really on the fence that I end up posting. I'm not sure if you're the same way - but the fact that this daycare is just about perfect and you're still ambivalent says a lot, I think.

Mid, I'm pretty post-happy   What I basically wanted to know is whether I'd be crazy to go forward with this daycare based on this one issue (which I do view as a red flag, unless there's a perfectly innocuous explanation - such as she's filed the paperwork and everything's cool but the system isn't updated). 

I'm only ambivalent about this because the assistants apparently are not registered.  Everything else checks out and I think this would be a wonderful place for Babybird to spend one day a week.

Exactly that! And I am sure there is a reason why she did all the rest of the requirements but not this one, which is a major one considering these people could be convicted felons, child molesters/abusers, ... Or it could be a simple oversight but I doubt it.

Yeah, there needs to be a super good explanation for me to feel good about this.  I'm planning to call her up after work to discuss this, and if her answer is along the lines of "oh yeah, I didn't register them because that's a BS requirement and they never check anyway," then we're outta there no questions asked.  I'm not comfortable with that.

But I definitely plan to ask, because there may be a simple explanation.  If she acts like she is at all angry with me for "outing" her, I'd kill the deal right there for that as well.  She knew I was going to call; if she was for some idiotic reason banking on me not calling, then no way am I sending Babybird there. 

[Shooby]

Personally, i prefer an daycare that is run as a daycare and not something in someone's home.  I want a daycare that is dedicated to that and a building dedicated to that and i know is licensed and inspected.  And, they usually employ multiple adults and i always would want to make sure that my child is with more than one adult.  I personally do not trust home daycares unless i would know them well.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I find it weird that apparently she has been inspected and passed recently but no one thought to make sure her attendants were registered?   Shouldn’t that be something the state checks?

Otherwise she sounds like a good daycare.   It depends on your comfort level.  If other parents have been with her for years then either they haven’t looked into it or it is not a dealbreaker for them.

But like I said it’s YOUR money and YOUR kid, so don’t feel like you have to pick her because other parents appear okay with it.

My MIL sings that daycares praises to the sky but they were really nasty to me on the phone. I don’t care what SIL’s experience is I am not moving to that daycare no matter how “awesome” it is. 

I like my daycare just fine, which has had it’s own bad press from random people I’ve mentioned the name to.  But it fit all my criteria and we don’t have a single complaint about them so we use them.

[muttleynfelix]

Feb 28, 2013 16:46:29 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Personally, i prefer an daycare that is run as a daycare and not something in someone's home.  I want a daycare that is dedicated to that and a building dedicated to that and i know is licensed and inspected.  And, they usually employ multiple adults and i always would want to make sure that my child is with more than one adult.  I personally do not trust home daycares unless i would know them well.

It is licenced, it is inspected. Firebird even said that it is in a seperate part of the house.

Home daycares can also be (and often are, since if they aren't that eliminates anyone on state pay) licensed facilities.

[Shooby]

   Yes, i read it.  Just giving my personal preference and opinion.  I have 3 kids and have always worked so i have tried many options.

[Firebird]

Shooby - Muttley beat me to it, but this is a professional, licensed daycare and there are multiple adults employed to run it (whether or not the two assistants are registered - well, that's the whole question but they do exist).  I wouldn't be comfortable with a "home daycare" that wasn't licensed and didn't have multiple caregivers either. 

No way in hell would I let Babybird be the sole baby among a bunch of rowdy toddlers if one person was running the whole show by herself. 

I find it weird that apparently she has been inspected and passed recently but no one thought to make sure her attendants were registered?   Shouldn’t that be something the state checks?

Drama, it's absolutely something the state checks.  Every year they do a random inspection - she has no warning they're coming.  She passed in 2012 with no problems.  If they did her 2013 today and found unregistered assistants there, they'd fine her severely and make a note of the failed inspection in her records.  It's a major violation.  So it makes no sense to me that she didn't register them (or indeed would have hired someone in the first place who couldn't pass a fingerprint test) when it appears she's been doing everything else right for the past decade. 

I'm leaning toward (and hoping) there's some kind of glitch and she really did register them. 

[muttleynfelix]

Feb 28, 2013 17:12:13 GMT -5 Shooby said:

   Yes, i read it.  Just giving my personal preference and opinion.  I have 3 kids and have always worked so i have tried many options.

Then why make the comment?  She's not using an unlicensed facility. If you wouldn't be comfortable using a home daycare under any circumstances, then say that, but you specificly mentioned unlicensed. 

[Angel!]

Feb 28, 2013 14:36:05 GMT -5 Firebird said:

in the end, you need to rely on your own instincts.

My instincts about people totally suck.  I've been screwed before by trusting my instincts.  Which is why we're going by the book on this one.  The only people who have taken care of Babybird to date are people I'd trust with my life, or they were personally referred by people I'd trust with my life. 

I debated on even answering this thread, but decided to anyway   so ignore my advice if you like. I wouldn't send her there because of what you said right here.  Not because this is a sure sign that they are a crappy daycare or that anything bad might happen at all.  Odds are they are a fantastic daycare & odds are Babybird will love it. 

I say no because if anything went wrong you would be kicking yourself for ignoring what you saw as a potential red flag.  Sure, it may not be a red flag at all & bad things can happen even with no red flags.  But, you saw it & questioned your choice.  You will remember that & it could haunt you if something happens - of course this would also depend on your personality & whether you have a tendecy to blame yourself for things (I tend to do this ).

[Shooby]

  Do i have to explain why i make comments?  Why make comments on what i am commenting on?  I comment on what i comment on.