Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 8, 2011 12:00:29 GMT -5
I think that as your children age, it gets harder to treat them the same. They are individuals, after all.
My ex-in-laws favor their daughter over my ex-husband. That didn't bother me. When it began to extend to the grandkids, that did bother me. Like, once they gave their other granddaughter a bunch of presents they had bought her while on vacation, in front of my daughter, and gave my daughter nothing. The girls were both very little at the time. That hurt my daughter's feelings and pissed me off. They babysat their other grandkids regularly, bought them things regularly, attended their school programs regularly, etc. Eventually though, I changed my thinking. If they can't be bothered to pay any attention at all to their own grandchildren, it is their loss. Now my kids are 15 and 20 and are both great kids. They have no relationship with their paternal grandparents.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 8, 2011 12:10:02 GMT -5
I had a really long rambling post that I decided was silly. I don't know if my parents treated us "equally" financially as kids. I know that I felt we were treated equally (or fairly) as people. We were both loved. Neither of us lacked for anything we needed. Neither of us were denied experiences. As adults, its been a little trickier. My brother has had some financial issues which were not completely his fault (yes, he could have been more proactive in dealing with the issues, but he couldn't have prevented the military from submitting two W-2s in one year), and my mom especially has helped him out financially. Every once in a while, she'll decide she needs to even things out and buy us something, but I try and push back on that when possible. (Exception was when she came to visit us on the one year anniversary of step-dad's death - ie Mother's Day - and bought us a couch and dining room set. That weekend my only goal was to keep her busy, and if she wanted to shop for us, that's what we were going to do.) DH and I don't need anything. And we don't really want for anything, either. If my brother needs help (he doesn't really, anymore) or if one of my step-siblings, step-neices/nephews, or cousins needs help, then I have no problem with my parents sending their money that way, as long as they are taking care of themselves, as well.
I do know that one sibling should never be put in charge of an inheritence for another sibling if they are wildly unequal, even if the different needs of the kids make it seem appropriate. DH's step-dad did not have full mental capacity. His parents weren't certain he would ever be able to hold down a full time job, or at least not one that paid enough for him to own a home, whereas his brother was fully capable. So, they left everything to DH's step-dad, but put his brother in charge of the trust. That was a bad plan.
I also know, that no matter how fair you try to be, in close families, siblings will feel guilt when there is a major difference in outcome. When my mom's parents had to leave Carmel due to grandma's health, they decided to sell their home to one of her brothers. He was the only of their 4 kids who was in a position to even want to buy the house at the time, and they sold it to him for market value. Still, that was in the early to mid-70s, and market value was around $100k. The house is now a million dollar property due to improvements my uncle has made (he's a contractor) and its proximity to the beach (1 block away). My uncle feels guilty, especially since the two younger siblings have really struggled financially. My mom also feels guilt because of the help her father gave her when she and my dad divorced, and now she's doing fine. So, they both pay for things for my cousins, or send a little extra at birthday's and Christmas because they benefitted from their parents' largesse and the younger siblings didn't.
In the end, I don't think that feeling like your parents treated you equally or fairly has anything to do with the actual dollars spent. It has to do with meeting each child's needs and making sure the love and emotional support are there, regardless of $.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 8, 2011 12:46:41 GMT -5
Snerdley - did you see my question about why you expect to support your daughter more than your sons? I am not trying to be snarky, but I am genuinely curious about the answer. The world is a bit different for men than for women. I expect that my sons will probably go out into the world and establish their lives much more apart from me. I expect that my daughter will establish her life but I do believe that I will be more involved with her emotionally and when she gets married, has kids, etc. Daughters gravitate toward their own mothers and if my sons get married, i would expect they will probably gravitate more toward their wives families. It may not be the way it happens but that is often what I see. And, I don't think that is wrong. Thanks for clarifying. That's a lot different from simply expecting that she won't do as well for herself because she's a girl. I breathed a sigh of relief reading your post
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Post by kristi28 on Feb 8, 2011 12:57:22 GMT -5
I will try to be even with my children (assuming I ever have the second one) unless one has a disability or something that would require a lifetime of intervention. I would not take it to an extreme, however. I have no intention of keeping track of how much I spend on clothes/food/activities unless buying for one prevents buying for another.
Both my parents and my ILs are this way, and I very much appreciate it. For a time, I was the only one of the grandkids on my mothers side who didn't have money problems. My grandmother decided to give each of us a check for the same amount of money. She felt that it wasn't right to leave me out just because I was the one with my act together. However, my family is big into rewarding the behaviors that you desire to see.
One year, my brothers family lived on less money for the year than my parents donated to charity. When asked about it, my father declared "he decided that he didn't need a job to have a kid - now he is living like a guy with a kid and no job." I love my brother and his kids, but trying to have kids while unemployed and broke just isn't a good idea no matter how you look at it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
THAT is how parents should treat their children. Props to your dad!!!
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 8, 2011 13:13:36 GMT -5
When it began to extend to the grandkids, that did bother me. Like, once they gave their other granddaughter a bunch of presents they had bought her while on vacation, in front of my daughter, and gave my daughter nothing.Now THAT is just plain wrong.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2011 13:19:16 GMT -5
You have a lot of class. I'd have made a huge scene if someone has slighted my daughter. Some "family" member.
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april47
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Post by april47 on Feb 8, 2011 13:29:00 GMT -5
I'm LESS inclined to help my DD over my DS because she makes poor choices. He's immature but that will, hopefully, end sometime but her poor choices, she never learns from them. I have a few more months of college for her and then she is on her own with a whole lot more than her brother got but it won't be enough and she won't be grateful anyway, just angry that the money is no longer forthcoming. My beef with parents are those that REWARD a child who makes poor choices and PUNISHES one that does not. Stop using the "grandchildren excuse." It doesn't cut it with anyone but you. I can't punish a 2 year old for her mom's poor choices. At this point I wouldn't help my daughter at all but daycare and occasional groceries keeps that 2 year safe. Yes I have other older grandkids and they get small Christmas and BD presents but I never had to buy groceries and daycare for them because their mom could easily provide for them.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Feb 8, 2011 13:29:52 GMT -5
This is an interesting thread. There are 5 of us, and we all thought that my mother (father has been deceased 20 years) favored one over the other. But if you asked any of us, we would all name a different sibling that she favored. However, we 4 girls always said that my brother was spoiled and he was; last of the line and all that crap. What I have come to realize now that I have my own children; two girls and a boy (he is the middle child), as this issue came up recently, that as parents we respond to individual need at a given moment in time. The ones that are not the neediest somehow feel that they are neglected because of the ones that are needy and are getting more attention, help etc.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 8, 2011 13:37:52 GMT -5
I remember when I was in high school I watched a Dad and daughter talking. I actually knew the Dad, but not the girl, even though she and I were classmates. She wanted something and he was telling her "no" and she said "But you let {{my sister}} do..." and he answered her "That's because I love her more."
First she was pissed, and then she started laughing and he started laughing. I guess it all worked out.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2011 13:38:02 GMT -5
April47, your choice, of course, but does it REALLY help your daughter and grandchild in the long run?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 8, 2011 13:53:41 GMT -5
At this point I wouldn't help my daughter at all but daycare and occasional groceries keeps that 2 year safe.
does it REALLY help your daughter and grandchild in the long run?
Daycare and groceries? For a 2 year old? I'd say absolutely it helps the grandchild.. It's not as if she were buying them cell phones and ipods.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 8, 2011 13:59:00 GMT -5
I think the question being asked is "If the Mom of the 2 year old was absolutely forced to stand on her own 2 feet with no rescue from Grandma, would she pull her poop together and handle it herself? Would that make Mom a stronger, more stable person? And would that change how the 2 year old was being raised - what was being taught to her, etc?"
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Feb 8, 2011 14:04:24 GMT -5
Good points. But, i know that I respond very differently to my 3 children because of their different personalities. There is no way to be equal in that regard. Or, no way that i know. Snerd, I understand what you are saying. We have different relationships with each of our children for various reasons. For me, I tend to favor my older daughter. Its not that I love her more and the other two less. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that when I had my oldest, I was 17, living at home and had a lot of help from my mom. I was in my senior year so in classes until the day before he was born and back at school once he was 6 weeks old. With my youngest, I was in the middle of a divorce and had moved back home with my parents. Because of money, I worked until the day before she was born and I was back working for my then retiring boss when needed before she was a full 2 weeks old. However, with my middle child, I was able to stay home the last month I was carrying her due to a job loss and then able to be a SAHM until she was about 4 months old (ex wouldn't hold down a job so someone had to bring in the income). I simply had more time alone with her and bonded a little more closely to her. Then when you throw in that her personality and temperment is more like mine than my other two and that only compounds the differences.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 8, 2011 14:10:59 GMT -5
Really, you prefer a child because you didn't work or go to school during the last month of your pregnancy and so you feel "bonded"? And even as the kids have grown up, you still hold that against your other two kids??!!
I think your last sentence is more valid. You can definitely just be able to relate to one kid better - but if it is sheerly that the terms of your pregnancy were more to your liking, so you reward that child - I think that is just mean.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 8, 2011 14:24:17 GMT -5
I think the question being asked is "If the Mom of the 2 year old was absolutely forced to stand on her own 2 feet with no rescue from Grandma, would she pull her poop together and handle it herself? Would that make Mom a stronger, more stable person? And would that change how the 2 year old was being raised - what was being taught to her, etc?" I didn't read it that way. Desperate women have sometimes made some really bad choices when faced with a childcare crisis - with disastrous consequences for the child. Personally, I would not put my grandchild in such a situation. April's priority was the safety of the two year old. I support her in that.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 8, 2011 14:28:23 GMT -5
Oh, I wanted to crack some heads, all right. I think mostly I didn't make a big scene because I was simultaneously stunned and furious. Although, it would be nice if it was just because I have too much class, lol. My MIL saw the look on my face, and they never pulled THAT again.
I feel sorry for my ex-SIL's kids, their mother is a complete loser. I'm never sure if it is because her parents coddled her so much or if it is merely her destiny.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 8, 2011 14:28:59 GMT -5
I think the question being asked is "If the Mom of the 2 year old was absolutely forced to stand on her own 2 feet with no rescue from Grandma, would she pull her poop together and handle it herself? Would that make Mom a stronger, more stable person? And would that change how the 2 year old was being raised - what was being taught to her, etc?" In principle, I agree with this totally and think that zib and thyme make an excellent point. However, this society has degenerated to the point where there is always going to be a handout for people that refuse to get their lives together on their own. If it's not Grandma buying groceries, it's the taxpayers-- and personally, I would prefer that the damage caused by financial train wrecks be contained to their own families. No, it's not fair to the family members-- but better they pay for a loved one's irresponsible choices than society at large who have no particular duty to the ne'er-do-well. And right now in America, it's one or the other.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 8, 2011 14:32:31 GMT -5
Right or wrong, it would be VERY hard to watch your grandchild go without basic necessities. It isn't the child's fault that Mom or Dad doesn't have it together.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2011 14:53:31 GMT -5
IF it makes the irresponsible parent have a "come to jesus" moment, it might be worth it. As long as the "parent" always knows someone is going to bail them out, there's no incentive to change the behaviors. I see too many women bail their children out continuously because of the grandchild card. The people that play that card know how to play it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 8, 2011 14:58:47 GMT -5
Agreed, but seriously-- what's the more common outcome in this society when a parental honey pot dries up, a "come to Jesus" moment or an "oh well, Mom is being a bitch and my poor lil baby needs to eat, time to apply for foodstamps" moment?
We're starting to reap the consequences of encouraging entitlement in such an all-consuming way.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2011 15:06:25 GMT -5
You are so right. I have a friend whose daughter got herself pregnant by a jailbird with no job. Of course now friend is letting daughter and grandson live with her so they don't have to live in the ghetto with unsavory characters like the father of the baby. So said daughter has a free place to stay and a free babysitter. Lo and behold, my girlfriend gets cancer. We are sure it's from the stress of the situation as while in the hospital my girlfriend told me she wants to die. That is how she can escape what her daughter has done to her but in actuality, it is what she LET her daughter do to her by letting her daughter play the grandchild card.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 8, 2011 15:06:53 GMT -5
It is definately a touchy subject. Cutting off the kid and grandkid doesn't have a perfect success rate and the grandkid will always take the brunt of that loss. My kids are little, so it is still theoretical on how I would actually respond to the situation.
My Mom helped us out when my daughter was born. We didn't actually need her to for money reasons, but she gave up a lot of time. I remember thanking her profusely one day and she answered "This might be unusual now - but this is nothing compared to what my Mom and Grandma did when your sisters were born." I guess the difference is that she gave up time, not paid my bills. And I bet that her Mom gave up time, not paid bills.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Feb 8, 2011 15:08:23 GMT -5
Really, you prefer a child because you didn't work or go to school during the last month of your pregnancy and so you feel "bonded"? And even as the kids have grown up, you still hold that against your other two kids??!! I think your last sentence is more valid. You can definitely just be able to relate to one kid better - but if it is sheerly that the terms of your pregnancy were more to your liking, so you reward that child - I think that is just mean. Where do you get that I hold the circumstances of my life around the times they were born against them? My life was complicated because of choices I made, not because of them. Having them to care for is what got me through those difficult times and I shudder to think how many more bad choices I would have made if I hadn't had the responsibility of raising them. Being closer to one has no effect on how much I love the other two nor does it affect how much I do for any of them. They all know I love them and that I would do anything for them and that is all that matters.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 8, 2011 15:14:02 GMT -5
It is definately a touchy subject. Cutting off the kid and grandkid doesn't have a perfect success rate and the grandkid will always take the brunt of that loss. My kids are little, so it is still theoretical on how I would actually respond to the situation. My Mom helped us out when my daughter was born. We didn't actually need her to for money reasons, but she gave up a lot of time. I remember thanking her profusely one day and she answered "This might be unusual now - but this is nothing compared to what my Mom and Grandma did when your sisters were born." I guess the difference is that she gave up time, not paid my bills. And I bet that her Mom gave up time, not paid bills. Believe me, I totally agree with you guys and I wish things were different. But the fact of the matter is that this is the way things are in this country, and people who have no problem using grandchild guilt to mooch off Mom aren't the kind of people who feel any shame whatsoever in using welfare as a fallback option. The fact that I really hate this doesn't mean that it's not true. In my perfect world, people would take responsibility for their own freaking actions and not have to fall back on anyone-- but that's not the way it is in this country. There are way too many welfare options available for people who would rather not step up to their responsibilities. And again, if it's welfare or Mom, I'd prefer that lazy and irresponsible types mooch off Mom.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 8, 2011 15:17:22 GMT -5
I guess I don't understand why the first 3 months of their lives have a lifelong effect on who you prefer.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 8, 2011 15:19:21 GMT -5
I guess I don't understand why the first 3 months of their lives have a lifelong effect on who you prefer. Three months doesn't matter that much. Moochers generally don't stop mooching after three months.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2011 15:19:39 GMT -5
People react to their kids differently. Different personalities, different pregnancies, different circumstances.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Feb 8, 2011 15:20:39 GMT -5
I agree with what someone said earlier, it does cause problems between sibs. D-BIL was the favored one, still is. Of course he never spoke up that he thought it was unfair that we never got to use the vacation home. That left extra weeks and weekends for his family. And I also agree with what someone else said, my children aren't as close to those grandparents. And the D-BIL's children? A couple of cards throughout the year for grandparents who favored them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 8, 2011 15:21:54 GMT -5
You never know who or what will cause the big "turn-around" moment in someone's life. I know lots of people that took money monthly from their parents so they could keep up a lifestyle. They aren't welfare queens, and could easily make adjustments if need be. Getting money from parents - especially if the parent offers instead of say "yes" when asked - might be infinately easier and more palatable than actually applying for food stamps.
My parents gave me money to buy furniture when I moved into my house, but I didn't go through the city government program that would have given us a grant to upgrade certain things in our house. Taking money from Mom & Dad is different.
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