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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 13:02:13 GMT -5
Nothing is "sacred" in your opinion. I disagree. We are much more than biochemically reacting blobs. ...actually, I wasn't posting an opinion but rather a paraphrase of most descriptions of animism itself... (I'm not an animist, fwiw) ...however, if you have sources that attribute a hierarchy within animistic thought, I'd be happy to read about it... thanks... |
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 27, 2012 13:10:18 GMT -5
Looks like everybody sobered up!
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Post by femmefatale on Dec 27, 2012 13:11:09 GMT -5
Looks like everybody sobered up! Lmao, GEL!! ;D |
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spartyparty
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Post by spartyparty on Dec 27, 2012 13:12:55 GMT -5
All I know for sure, is that there is a pure aroma of evil emanating from the men's bathroom at the office.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 13:13:03 GMT -5
But, it wasn't 15 M. So, if you can create your own reality then you can create that? Yes or no? TMI Sooo, can you create that reality or is the reality that there is a limited reality or what? ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 13:13:20 GMT -5
All I know for sure, is that there is a pure aroma of evil emanating from the men's bathroom at the office. True Dat!! |
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Post by femmefatale on Dec 27, 2012 13:16:06 GMT -5
All I know for sure, is that there is a pure aroma of evil emanating from the men's bathroom at the office.  |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 14:22:13 GMT -5
INNER said: good and evil are perceptual illusions.
Good, nor evil is an illusion. Each is what it is.
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 14:23:08 GMT -5
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 27, 2012 14:32:33 GMT -5
INNER said: good and evil are perceptual illusions. Good, nor evil is an illusion. Each is what it is. Just like tall and short, they are what they are. But "does tall exist"? Sure, it does. But it's still a perception of the individual. I don't know if I'd call it an "illusion", but it's perception, and different for everyone. So does it exist? Well it exists for YOU, if YOU believe it exists. But if I find nothing to come to the standard of "tall", then "tall" does not exist to me. Same with good or evil, thin or fat, etc. |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 14:41:38 GMT -5
::...this whole thread won't or can't document evil, wouldn't you agree? we'd have an equal challenge in documenting good... my point in asking you to clarify your comment in part illustrates the point of the thread (imo) and in part asks you to be specific... one can be arrested for crimes that aren't categorically evil, so a criminal record wouldn't be proof, correct? :: While I agree with you, having something actually proven counts a lot more than "I felt weird, then a friend of a friend said they heard this guy was doing xyz". Because I'm guessing the proof that this guy was doing this stuff was not because the poster went into his house and sat there with him participating in the curses and Satanic rituatls. You guys are beating up a new poster. Gve him some time before you do that! ;D |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 14:50:01 GMT -5
INNER said: good and evil are perceptual illusions. Good, nor evil is an illusion. Each is what it is. Just like tall and short, they are what they are. But "does tall exist"? Sure, it does. But it's still a perception of the individual. I don't know if I'd call it an "illusion", but it's perception, and different for everyone. So does it exist? Well it exists for YOU, if YOU believe it exists. But if I find nothing to come to the standard of "tall", then "tall" does not exist to me. Same with good or evil, thin or fat, etc. You have a point-and- perception would be a better way to describe things in this thread. However all of these things exist whether a person sees them or not. How do I know this? Someone told me and I had faith in that person. Not everything is tangible. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 14:54:42 GMT -5
Sooo, can you create that reality or is the reality that there is a limited reality or what? ;D I'm almost sure reality can be created and it's unlimited. Although, it never seems to come in the way you think it will. Wanting money, you might try creating a big Lottery win, but it won't happen in that way. It will be in a way you never expected. Just my belief, nothing more. Sure, but what about hoping against hope that someone recovers from a deadly illness? What about innocent children, did they create their own reality? |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 14:55:09 GMT -5
And I thought The Devil's Advocate was original material. |
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 27, 2012 14:57:59 GMT -5
::However all of these things exist whether a person sees them or not.::
I think that's debatable depending on how people are defining these "things". Some people seem to be discussing whether "evil" exists as an idea, or whether "evil" exists as a specific thing (such an as evil force which actually compels bad things to happen). So similar to "does tall exist"? Yes, tall exists because we've all come to a general consensus of what "tall" is, and even if I never think anything IS tall, I can still say that as a concept it exists. And in that same way "evil" exists. But I think that's a far different question than whether "evil exists" in the ways some people are defining "exists". Evil as an idea probably does exist, but it seems to be a much more variable way than "tall" (some people think evil is simply "bad", some think it's "terrible"). But then some people are defining "exists" as being an actual force which controls things in some way. So in that way it's not longer just an idea like "tall", it's being asked if an actual THING exists, not whether an idea or way of defining things exists. It's being asked more in a way of "does the wind exist".
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:01:11 GMT -5
We can see that at least some people are evil so either we are not part of God or God is not pure love or love is not pure good. Love is pure good, God is pure love and we are a part of God. So, believing that people can be evil would be believing that God can be evil. No? No LONE. Believing this up until birth works. Then free will enters the picture and alters everything, for each of us. A string of choices and environment (among other things) can separate us from what we were when we were newborn. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:01:51 GMT -5
I don't think those are the same things at all. I don't think Evil is some "relative" concept of measurement as are tall or short. I think ALL recognize that abducting and murdering children is "evil".
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:04:11 GMT -5
The only way it would make sense to me that something that is suppose to be perfect can have evil in it, is that there is no such thing as evil. Maybe in the eyes of God, deeds both good and evil are nothing more than deeds. If this were the case, ask yourself why God gave us the Ten Commandments. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:09:47 GMT -5
I am sorry about your grandson Lone.   I do want to see if i understand or you could develop how you perceive these concepts. I would also agree his short life accomplished a purpose. But, are you saying He choose that purpose and that you or I create the purpose or reality or that higher power does? |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:14:55 GMT -5
::However all of these things exist whether a person sees them or not.:: I think that's debatable depending on how people are defining these "things". Some people seem to be discussing whether "evil" exists as an idea, or whether "evil" exists as a specific thing (such an as evil force which actually compels bad things to happen). So similar to "does tall exist"? Yes, tall exists because we've all come to a general consensus of what "tall" is, and even if I never think anything IS tall, I can still say that as a concept it exists. And in that same way "evil" exists. But I think that's a far different question than whether "evil exists" in the ways some people are defining "exists". Evil as an idea probably does exist, but it seems to be a much more variable way than "tall" (some people think evil is simply "bad", some think it's "terrible"). But then some people are defining "exists" as being an actual force which controls things in some way. So in that way it's not longer just an idea like "tall", it's being asked if an actual THING exists, not whether an idea or way of defining things exists. It's being asked more in a way of "does the wind exist". I see your line of thinking. The question of the existence of evil is an age old one. There is but one truth. What that truth is could be anyone's guess. Since 'evil' is intangible, this brings us to personal truths, definitions, and standards. While I choose to believe the biblical version, (it took me half a lifetime to come to this conclusion) I think in terms of spirituality. Others come to their conclusions from other experiences. Each walks a personal walk on this earth. I think beliefs come from what a person experiences and contemplates. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:17:52 GMT -5
No LONE. Believing this up until birth works. Then free will enters the picture and alters everything, for each of us. A string of choices and environment (among other things) can separate us from what we were when we were newborn. So, you don't believe there was free will before birth? Not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you asking if I had "free will" to determine my personal destiny? If so, the answer is No, i do not believe i preconceived my life and it's existence. Do i have "free will" as a material human being once i am born? Yes. Do i exercise "free will" as in infant? I would say there is an "age of accountability" where a baby becomes a "free thinker" who can freely understand and choose good versus evil and i would say our laws are reflective of that. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 15:21:05 GMT -5
::...this whole thread won't or can't document evil, wouldn't you agree? we'd have an equal challenge in documenting good... my point in asking you to clarify your comment in part illustrates the point of the thread (imo) and in part asks you to be specific... one can be arrested for crimes that aren't categorically evil, so a criminal record wouldn't be proof, correct? :: While I agree with you, having something actually proven counts a lot more than "I felt weird, then a friend of a friend said they heard this guy was doing xyz". Because I'm guessing the proof that this guy was doing this stuff was not because the poster went into his house and sat there with him participating in the curses and Satanic rituatls. You guys are beating up a new poster. Gve him some time before you do that! ;D ...hey... I was being part of grits' peanut gallery... I hope I wasn't so bad at it that you thought I was beating him up...  |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:21:23 GMT -5
No LONE. Believing this up until birth works. Then free will enters the picture and alters everything, for each of us. A string of choices and environment (among other things) can separate us from what we were when we were newborn. So, you don't believe there was free will before birth? Not sure I understand what you're saying. To my understanding there is no reason for a fetus to think while s/he is developing. The fetus only grows and becomes whole. This is the main objective while in the womb. Once a fully developed fetus is exposed to the world then choices are able to be made. A series of choices is part of what makes a person who s/he is. I feel there are many more conditions that form who a person becomes. We're just not aware of the entire picture. Or maybe it's just me who is not aware of the entire picture. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:22:12 GMT -5
Yes. I believer are lives are preordained and predestined and that since God exists outside of time, our lives and our choices and path are known prior to our birth to Him. And, i believe during my time here i have the ability to make good or bad or evil choices as well in the sense that even though our lives are already revealed to and known by the Higher Power, in our concept and lives of chronological time, WE personally make those free will choices. But, i do not believe infants or young children are capable of exerting their free will until a certain age of wisdom or reason comes upon them.
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:23:10 GMT -5
You guys are beating up a new poster. Gve him some time before you do that! ;D ...hey... I was being part of grits' peanut gallery... I hope I wasn't so bad at it that you thought I was beating him up... I guess I thought that 'just a tad'. |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:24:07 GMT -5
If this were the case, ask yourself why God gave us the Ten Commandments. I don't want to step on any toes, but I don't believe God gave us any commandments. No toes stepped on. I respect your ideals.  Here's my broken heart for you. I'm so sorry for your loss, LONE.  |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:30:43 GMT -5
Yes. I believer are lives are preordained and predestined and that since God exists outside of time, our lives and our choices and path are known prior to our birth to Him. And, i believe during my time here i have the ability to make good or bad or evil choices as well in the sense that even though our lives are already revealed to and known by the Higher Power, in our concept and lives of chronological time, WE personally make those free will choices. But, i do not believe infants or young children are capable of exerting their free will until a certain age of wisdom or reason comes upon them. SHOOB: Here's where I have difficulty. If we are predestined, and God wants us all with Him, then why would He create people knowing that they won't make it? It just doesn't make sense to me. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 15:31:34 GMT -5
...okay... now, how to go about brushing up on my peanut gallery skills...   |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:32:52 GMT -5
...okay... now, how to go about brushing up on my peanut gallery skills... You're doing fine! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:34:46 GMT -5
Yes.
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