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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:35:50 GMT -5
Yes. I believer are lives are preordained and predestined and that since God exists outside of time, our lives and our choices and path are known prior to our birth to Him. And, i believe during my time here i have the ability to make good or bad or evil choices as well in the sense that even though our lives are already revealed to and known by the Higher Power, in our concept and lives of chronological time, WE personally make those free will choices. But, i do not believe infants or young children are capable of exerting their free will until a certain age of wisdom or reason comes upon them. SHOOB: Here's where I have difficulty. If we are predestined, and God wants us all with Him, then why would He create people knowing that they won't make it? It just doesn't make sense to me. Because He choose to make beings capable of freely loving Him or not. And, in doing so, there is a certain harsh reality that some will freely choose not too. At least, that is how i understand it. |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 27, 2012 15:37:09 GMT -5
Yes. I believer are lives are preordained and predestined and that since God exists outside of time, our lives and our choices and path are known prior to our birth to Him
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So.....God made me an atheist? It was, after all, preordained and predestined. Kind of sucks, though, seeeing as how he's supposed to punish me for it.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 15:37:20 GMT -5
But, i do not believe infants or young children are capable of exerting their free will until a certain age of wisdom or reason comes upon them. ...interesting... I've met babies and youngsters who make choices all the time... I've also seen quite a bit of scholarly discussion about multiples interacting in the womb, too... ...now, I would agree with someone who says accountability (aka facing consequences) for personal morality is an acquired threshold...  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:39:11 GMT -5
But, i do not believe infants or young children are capable of exerting their free will until a certain age of wisdom or reason comes upon them. ...interesting... I've met babies and youngsters who make choices all the time... I've also seen quite a bit of scholarly discussion about multiples interacting in the womb, too... ...now, I would agree with someone who says accountability (aka facing consequences) for personal morality is an acquired threshold... Of course babies and youngsters make choices. But if a 2 yr old picked up a loaded gun and fired and killed someone we wouldn't hold them accountable of a malicious, level one homicide as we would an adult. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:40:45 GMT -5
Good move SL, i think the discussion is taking a deep, philosophical, religious turn.
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 15:40:51 GMT -5
If all your assumptions are true, yes it would be. But we can see some people are evil so either God can be evil or you are wrong about something. Can a good person be evil if they do an evil deed? I'm thinking everyone is capable of doing something evil. It's what we do with the experience that counts. What we learn from it. The choices we make after we do it. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 15:41:22 GMT -5
...and boy, has this thread grown many arms to the discussion... and we haven't been bumped to the religious forum after 9pgs!  |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 15:42:15 GMT -5
...whoops... I posted at the same time it got bumped...  |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 15:42:34 GMT -5
...must've jinxed it...  |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 27, 2012 15:50:59 GMT -5
...must've jinxed it... *chuckle* Nah. It was being considered and discussed, so it's not your doing, beenthere. This is just a more apt placement for such a thread. If we want to discuss religion/spirituality, such discussions are best conducted on this board. We watch it to ensure there are no untoward comments or battles starting.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 15:53:06 GMT -5
To Shooby...
Does Evil exist: of course it does. If there was no evil, it would be hard to tell what good is...but you can feel it inside.
But it is no devil thing, some people are just born wrong and do horrendous things. I think that is the way it has always been.
Maybe the better question would be ...do sick people exist?
YES THEY DO.
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Dec 27, 2012 15:57:38 GMT -5
Sick people and evil people! They can either go hand in hand, OR actually have nothing in common.
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 16:15:01 GMT -5
No toes stepped on. I respect your ideals. Here's my broken heart for you. I'm so sorry for your loss, LONE.  Thanks.  This is so great to be able to have a civil discussion without it turning into a brawl. It is quite satisfying, isn't ti? |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 16:16:24 GMT -5
...whoops... I posted at the same time it got bumped... Me too. I brought my wine with me though. |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 16:20:07 GMT -5
God is there for us the way we choose to believe. God as all loving God. Who are we to judge what his intention are. We merely reflectt with our own interpretation. There is no right or wrong way to worship our fate.You know in your heart, what is right. What conduit is not make sense to you. It's all degree with your own interpretations. God is only one, The whom, will decide in the end.  You are so freaking cute! ;D |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 16:20:46 GMT -5
Me too. I brought my wine with me though. It was so sudden and mine got left behind. Hope you're willing to share. Absolutely. I'm a good sharer girl! ;D |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 16:23:13 GMT -5
So men that rape and abuse children are good? I don't think God sees anything as good or bad. It just is. We call a man that slaughters humans, evil, yet think nothing of a man who slaughters other forms of life. LONE: Do you really believe that? |
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mrsdutt
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Post by mrsdutt on Dec 27, 2012 16:38:02 GMT -5
I was only asking.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 27, 2012 16:55:16 GMT -5
We need some controversy in this thread.
Who can tell me which individual is more evil:
A) A reformed ex-Nazi who feeds the homeless, drowns puppies, and shoots Westboro Baptists.
B) A relapsed drug user who invented a cheap, 100% effective cure for leukemia and who presently spends most of his time campaigning for improved assistance for wounded American veterans and for legalization of pedophilia.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Dec 27, 2012 17:09:40 GMT -5
I choose C) Virgil is so damn bored right now. ;D
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 17:10:08 GMT -5
We need some controversy in this thread. Who can tell me which individual is more evil: A) A reformed ex-Nazi who feeds the homeless, drowns puppies, and shoots Westboro Baptists. B) A relapsed drug user who invented a cheap, 100% effective cure for leukemia and who presently spends most of his time campaigning for improved assistance for wounded American veterans and for legalization of pedophilia. ...which measuring stick can we use to answer? atheistic, monotheistic, or pantheistic?  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 17:11:44 GMT -5
But we're the ones who have determined that the enhancement and destruction is good and bad Yes. We impose good and bad upon occurrences, just as we impose hot and cold upon temperature. Me three. I don't either. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 17:11:53 GMT -5
I choose C) Virgil is so damn bored right now. ;D ...if name-calling were allowed per the CoC, I'd call you a chicken...  |
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 27, 2012 17:41:54 GMT -5
We need some controversy in this thread. Who can tell me which individual is more evil: A) A reformed ex-Nazi who feeds the homeless, drowns puppies, and shoots Westboro Baptists. B) A relapsed drug user who invented a cheap, 100% effective cure for leukemia and who presently spends most of his time campaigning for improved assistance for wounded American veterans and for legalization of pedophilia. A. He's drowning puppies and killing people. Or at least shooting them. I see nothing evil that B is doing or has done. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 27, 2012 17:45:31 GMT -5
We need some controversy in this thread. Who can tell me which individual is more evil: A) A reformed ex-Nazi who feeds the homeless, drowns puppies, and shoots Westboro Baptists. B) A relapsed drug user who invented a cheap, 100% effective cure for leukemia and who presently spends most of his time campaigning for improved assistance for wounded American veterans and for legalization of pedophilia. A. He's drowning puppies and killing people. Or at least shooting them. I see nothing evil that B is doing or has done. Ah yes, but we don't know why he's drowning the puppies. Or how many of them he's drowned. And individual B is both a drug addict and campaigning to legalize pedophilia. What would happen if some politician bowed to his lobbying efforts? And why would he campaign to legalize such a thing unless...? Murky, murky, murky.  |
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 27, 2012 17:46:29 GMT -5
::Of course babies and youngsters make choices. But if a 2 yr old picked up a loaded gun and fired and killed someone we wouldn't hold them accountable of a malicious, level one homicide as we would an adult. ::
Can we agree though that what the law would hold them accountable for in terms of charges is not the same, really in any way, as morality and whether they are good or evil?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Dec 27, 2012 17:49:35 GMT -5
Murky, murky, murky. ...the murkiness comes in not complaining about the WBC victims... |
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 27, 2012 17:50:30 GMT -5
::And individual B is both a drug addict and campaigning to legalize pedophilia. What would happen if some politician bowed to his lobbying efforts? And why would he campaign to legalize such a thing unless...?::
Who cares if he's a drug addict? I don't. I don't equate drug addiction to "evil". Pedophilia isn't illegal anyways. Pedophilia is technically simply the desire of an adult for a child. And what's a child? 17? What's an adult? 19? Or is 16 considered an adult somewhere and a child is 15? To say nothing that our current idea of adults and children wasn't remotely the same as those ideas a few centuries ago. There are children who are 3, and there are children who are 17.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 27, 2012 17:51:50 GMT -5
I also don't htink that whether something is legal or not has anything to do with good or evil. The act is the act. It's good, evil, or neither regardless of what laws make it legal or illegal.
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Post by femmefatale on Dec 27, 2012 18:14:11 GMT -5
Just adding my 2 cents to this conversation. Yes, I absolutely DO believe that evil exists and it is created by people and is totally up to the individual. JMO~
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