Does Evil Exist?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 24, 2012 13:55:24 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::...this whole thread won't or can't document evil, wouldn't you agree? we'd have an equal challenge in documenting good... my point in asking you to clarify your comment in part illustrates the point of the thread (imo) and in part asks you to be specific... one can be arrested for crimes that aren't categorically evil, so a criminal record wouldn't be proof, correct? ::

While I agree with you, having something actually proven counts a lot more than "I felt weird, then a friend of a friend said they heard this guy was doing xyz". Because I'm guessing the proof that this guy was doing this stuff was not because the poster went into his house and sat there with him participating in the curses and Satanic rituatls.

...fair enough... so, what would/could constitute as proof, in this case?

[hoops902]

Personally, I don't think there is "proof". I don't think you can prove something like this anyways (existence of evil/good). But I also don't think "i felt creepy" offers much in the way of advancing an argument.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 24, 2012 14:04:48 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Personally, I don't think there is "proof". I don't think you can prove something like this anyways (existence of evil/good). But I also don't think "i felt creepy" offers much in the way of advancing an argument.

...well, fwiw, if a neighbor told me "I feel a sense of evil whenever I walk pass this house," I'd agree that I'm not going to call out the dogs... but when the neighborhood becomes aware that the house in question is the home of a satanist, then those two pieces of testimony are enough for me to string together and agree that, categorically, it can be consider a home of evil...

...and hopefully I'd have moved away long before the chicken heads appear strewn across the lawn...

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...what a Christmas Eve discussion, eh?

[hoops902]

::but when the neighborhood becomes aware that the house in question is the home of a satanist::

That's part of the question being asked though, is what has been done to define the house this way. Gossip isn't a good answer.

If it's ok to call one religion evil is it ok to defame other religions?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 24, 2012 14:44:12 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::but when the neighborhood becomes aware that the house in question is the home of a satanist::

That's part of the question being asked though, is what has been done to define the house this way. Gossip isn't a good answer.

If it's ok to call one religion evil is it ok to defame other religions?

...well, presumably the satanist acknowledged their position before the chicken heads showed up?


...and people call different religions okay and not okay all the time... so that's not new... and it doesn't stop the devout... I've walked streets with a proverbial bull's eye on my back and while I can't deny that I may alter my course a bit for added safety, I still keep walking...





edited ...man, I misspelled chicken! this head cold really sux...

[hoops902]

I meant on this board. Is it ok to defame religions? Because like many religions, many Satanists would believe they are doing the right thing. It's absolutely no different than saying "I know evil exists, because I was always freaked out by this house on the street, then i found out the inhabitant was an old Jewish man, so clearly it was a house of evil".

This relates directly to the perception of good/evil discussed earlier. Things I like = good. Things I don't like = evil.

::presumably the satanist acknowledged their position before the chicken heads showed up?::

Presumably people understand that in the past people who had lots of tattoos and piercings were designated "satanists", without having practiced anything close. So in designating the inhabitants of a house "Satanists" and claiming they do all kinds of things, I think it makes a difference whether the person doing the claiming was there to watch it, heard the inhabitants claim they are Satanists, or is just passing along/starting gossip.

[Tennesseer]

Petitioner: Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc.

Respondent: City of Hialeah

Petitioner's Claim: That city laws prohibiting animal sacrifices during religious ceremonies violated the First Amendment freedom of religion.

Chief Lawyer for Petitioner: Douglas Laycock

Chief Lawyer for Respondent: Richard G. Garrett

Justices for the Court: Harry A. Blackmun, Anthony M. Kennedy (writing for the Court), Sandra Day O'Connor, William H. Rehnquist, Antonin Scalia, David H. Souter, John Paul Stevens, Clarence Thomas, Byron R. White

Justices Dissenting: None

Date of Decision: June 11, 1993

Decision: The laws violated the freedom of religion.

Significance: The decision is a recent reminder that laws may not target religious activity with unfair treatment.

Santería is a religion that developed among African slaves in Cuba in the 1800s and then spread to the United States in 1959. Santeros, as the followers are called, combine a traditional African religion with Roman Catholicism. They use Catholic saints to worship African spirits called orishas. Santeros believe orishas help them follow their destiny, and that orishas need animal sacrifices to live. This means animal sacrifices are an important part of the Santería religion. Santeros usually worshiped in private because in Cuba they were persecuted, or punished, for practicing their religion.

More: www.enotes.com/church-lukumi-babalu-aye-inc-v-city-hialeah-reference/church-lukumi-babalu-aye-inc-v-city-hialeah

What we may think is evil, SCOTUS has stated it is freedom of religion if it is part of their religion. So the finding of chicken sacrifices may be part of someone' religion. Is their religion then evil?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Dec 24, 2012 15:02:25 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I meant on this board. Is it ok to defame religions? Because like many religions, many Satanists would believe they are doing the right thing. It's absolutely no different than saying "I know evil exists, because I was always freaked out by this house on the street, then i found out the inhabitant was an old Jewish man, so clearly it was a house of evil".

This relates directly to the perception of good/evil discussed earlier. Things I like = good. Things I don't like = evil.

::presumably the satanist acknowledged their position before the chicken heads showed up?::

Presumably people understand that in the past people who had lots of tattoos and piercings were designated "satanists", without having practiced anything close. So in designating the inhabitants of a house "Satanists" and claiming they do all kinds of things, I think it makes a difference whether the person doing the claiming was there to watch it, heard the inhabitants claim they are Satanists, or is just passing along/starting gossip.

...well, on this board, as I understand it, it's okay to discuss religions and ideologies and worldviews, but it's not okay to preach them... and even then it's dicey on some things, like frugality and patriotism, which are preached all the time...

...trying to pinpoint when the discussion begins to defame one of those belief systems is problematic, at best...

...in the meantime, we get the CoC... and if my stating that I'd agree that a home can be considered a house of evil on the basis of two testimonies, then I'll stand corrected about breaking CoC and edit my post accordingly...





edited typo

[femmefatale]

Dec 24, 2012 11:19:57 GMT -5 grits said:

Dec 24, 2012 11:06:53 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::Oh I know for sure evil exists. I used to walk past an old house, and every time I passed it I felt an extreme sense of evil.::

I would argue you believe evil exists, but you do not "know for sure". Feelings are not facts.

It's no different from me saying " I know for sure aliens exist, because I have a feeling that they do".

I think you have every right to believe what you want to believe in, but I also feel like people need to stop reporting their feelings as indisputable facts.

The same goes for your opinions. Just because you don't believe doesn't mean the other people are wrong. I believe you have a high opinion of your own ego but I cannot prove it.

[Deleted]

I think that whether we have a "religious" sense or moral debate or whatever, that most of humanity has some basic sense of moral rights or wrongs or what is good or evil.

[runewell]

Dec 23, 2012 8:18:57 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

My belief is that we are a part of God and God is pure love, how then can we be evil?

Better go back and question the assumptions then. Specifically, the first one.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 24, 2012 22:56:06 GMT -5 @shooby said:

I think that whether we have a "religious" sense or moral debate or whatever, that most of humanity has some basic sense of moral rights or wrongs or what is good or evil.

Depending on what you mean by "most of humanity" and "some basic sense", I suppose so. :-\

The larger "most of humanity" becomes, the smaller "some basis sense" becomes. To the extent that "most of humanity" describes 50%+ of humankind, "some basis sense" might comprise cold-blooded murder, theft (under some circumstances), and rape (under some circumstances).

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 14:01:07 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 13:58:36 GMT -5 runewell said:

Better go back and question the assumptions then.

How so?

We can see that at least some people are evil so either we are not part of God or God is not pure love or love is not pure good.

[Deleted]

If all your assumptions are true, yes it would be. But we can see some people are evil so either God can be evil or you are wrong about something.

[Deleted]

They at least have some evil in them.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 19:29:09 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 19:20:12 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

We can see that at least some people are evil so either we are not part of God or God is not pure love or love is not pure good.

Love is pure good, God is pure love and we are a part of God. So, believing that people can be evil would be believing that God can be evil. No?

No. Actually it is one of the great theological questions of our time. God is good, all the time. Yet we clearly SEE that evil does exist. Yet, God is not the architect of evil but allows it as a possibility because of the greater possibility of self sacrificial love. Or, so i think. Evil is not a "thing" of itself but a "corruption" of good like Rust on a car.

[Deleted]

God is there for us the way we choose to believe. God as all loving God. Who are we to judge what his intention are. We merely reflectt with our own interpretation. There is no right or wrong way to worship our fate.
You know in your heart, what is right. What conduit is not make sense to you. It's all degree with your own interpretations.

God is only one, The whom, will decide in the end.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 20:33:27 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

If evil exists, then God has to the the architect.

lone,

I don't believe in evil. That is just me. Everyone can choose what they want to be believe.

That is beauty of our country.The freedom of religion.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 20:44:35 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 20:40:25 GMT -5 @funsnowbird said:

lone,

I don't believe in evil. That is just me. Everyone can choose what they want to be believe.

That is beauty of our country.The freedom of religion.

I don't think I believe in evil either.
Not sure what I believe anymore. I's so corn-fused

So men that rape and abuse children are good?

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 20:51:43 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

OT. Is anyone having problems with the evil board eating their posts?

lone,

I can feel your heart. So, no worries. Least one of us knows.

And, God knows.

[Deleted]

I don't think God sees anything as good or bad. It just is.
We call a man that slaughters humans, evil, yet think nothing of a man who slaughters other forms of life.

Then shouldn't you strive to see it the same way and not judge those people? Or judge people on welfare. Or socialists.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 26, 2012 20:51:04 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 20:46:03 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

So men that rape and abuse children are good?

I don't think God sees anything as good or bad. It just is.
We call a man that slaughters humans, evil, yet think nothing of a man who slaughters other forms of life.

Nature is also completely indifferent to everything. Is then what people call God simply nature?

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 21:54:13 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 21:01:13 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Then shouldn't you strive to see it the same way and not judge those people? Or judge people on welfare. Or socialists.

Are we talking about judging or whether or not there is evil?

What would the differance be?

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 21:13:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 26, 2012 20:51:04 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

I don't think God sees anything as good or bad. It just is.
We call a man that slaughters humans, evil, yet think nothing of a man who slaughters other forms of life.

Nature is also completely indifferent to everything. Is then what people call God simply nature?

Nature is not indifferent. Some actions destroy it and some actions enhance it. And nature does react for it's own survival.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 22:19:06 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 22:09:48 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

What would the differance be?

Being judgmental, to me, is merely a sign that the gold needs polishing. I need polishing.

You don't believe that. You think everyone else needs polishing.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 22:21:06 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 22:11:58 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Nature is not indifferent. Some actions destroy it and some actions enhance it. And nature does react for it's own survival.

But we're the ones who have determined that the enhancement and destruction is good and bad.

Yes we are, and we do so from a very self centred perspective. If the destruction of nature is such that we make it unable to sustain our life we call it bad.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 23:11:19 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 26, 2012 23:08:03 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

You don't believe that. You think everyone else needs polishing.

So, now you read minds? I'm impressed.

No, I read posts and I've been reading yours for years. You don't think you need to change at all and there is a long list of people you think need to change.

[Deleted]

It's not about who you think needs to change. It's about saying that God doesn't see anything as Good or Bad. If you believe in God and believe He doesn't judge (which you said you do) then how do you justify judging. You are trying to deny you judge and I'm calling you on that.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2012 20:33:27 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

If evil exists, then God has to the the architect.

Is it possible that God is NOT evil nor wishes evil but when creating mankind and angels ALLOWED the possibility of "evil" which would be turning against God's wishes but by doing so allowed voluntary love? So, while God COULD have invented us without the possibility of evil the fact that we ARE capable of terrible evils but also of great love in the long run was the best of all possible worlds?