Does Evil Exist?

[mrsdutt]

Dec 23, 2012 8:49:23 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Again, I can't stop thinking about the book We need to talk about Kevin - I think that kid was PURE evil - no matter what your perception is.

What book? Hmmm?

[mrsdutt]

Dec 23, 2012 12:57:25 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...oh, and Merry Christmas Eve Eve, everybody!

This is the day before the day before the night before Christmas. According to Mr Moose and Mr Greenjeans!

[whoisjohngalt]

What book? Hmmm?

this one

www.amazon.com/Need-Talk-About-Kevin-tie-/dp/B009D7CP2M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356290886&sr=8-1&keywords=we+need+to+talk+about+kevin

[Happy prose]

I scrolled back to see what book, but it isn't referenced. Lol. Maybe from another thread?

[weltschmerz]

Dec 23, 2012 14:18:46 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Dec 23, 2012 8:49:23 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Again, I can't stop thinking about the book We need to talk about Kevin - I think that kid was PURE evil - no matter what your perception is.

What book? Hmmm?

It's right there. We Need To Talk About Kevin.

[Happy prose]

Just looked it up. Not a book I'd read. I did enjoy House Rules by Jodi Picoult.

[weltschmerz]

Do I think evil exists? As a supernatural entity, no. However, the world is full of broken people doing terrible things.

[beags]

Dec 23, 2012 8:18:57 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

My belief is that we are a part of God and God is pure love, how then can we be evil?

we were made in his image and given free will.

[beags]

Dec 23, 2012 13:08:09 GMT -5 @devianity said:

To some, evil is just profound immorality.

To others it is a malevolent, supernatural force.

I'm waiting to see what kind of evil the threadmeister is referring to before opining on its existence.

I'm thinking it's the shootings, but I could be wrong.

[beags]

Dec 23, 2012 12:09:08 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

I find it hard to believe that any human is born evil.

I don't think anyone is born evil.

Me either I think it may have more to do with their surroundings, and what type of people they associate with.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2012 18:52:11 GMT -5 beags said:

I'm thinking it's the shootings, but I could be wrong.

Yes, I think so too but there are different things a person might mean by 'evil' when attributing it as the cause.

[Virgil Showlion]

To me it's as simple as 'evil is as evil does'. An evil individual is one who commits evil acts, regardless of whether the behaviour is learned, inborn, coerced, or any combination of the three.

I agree with BTDT et al. that defining 'evil' is the stickier issue, given the varied opinions here about the nature of morality. Obviously my insistence on the moral authority of the Bible is well known.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Evil has been going on for several thousand years - and probably much, much longer than that. Ancient Egyptians and other (some now dead) societies had evil in them in one form or another. If you want to get into the theologicall, wasn't it Eve's sons Cain and Abel who were the first perpretrator/victim of evil?

If you believe in Darwinism, then early man probably committed evil a lot earlier - fighting/killing over food or killing to survive.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2012 10:10:37 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Does Evil Exist?

Difficult to answer until you define what you mean by 'evil', for it connotes a wide range of phenomena.

Well, i am trying to discuss it as a general concept. There would be moral evils such as child abuse, murder, rape, etc. There are also natural evils such as illness, natural disasters, tsuanamis, etc. We seem to have an understanding as humans that natural evils are not necessarily something that involved a moral choice that therefore could have been prevented.
But for moral evils, we seem to want to explain it away as a mental illness or some underlying cause rather than saying that this person simply has choosen to perpetrate evil.

[Deleted]

I guess we also have to ask if "Good" exists as well? Yes?

[Tennesseer]

Natural events/disasters are not good or evil. They just 'are'. That is the nature of our planet. Death and destruction are unfortunate but not in the sense of being evil.

[Happy prose]

Shooby...I think if a person chooses to perpetrate evil, they are mentally ill. Some illnesses have no cure.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

There's always been both - and always will be. Unfortunately, the media are the ones who tend to bring the acts of evil into the spotlight - rather than the good that's being done every single day - in all shapes and forms. You just don't hear about the kindesses as much - but I think they far outweigh the evil that seems to take center stage thanks to the media - making us more aware of it than in the past. I prefer to keep my focus on what I can do to make things better - even if it might seem insignificant to someone else - and I believe in the "pay it forward" system - if more people put that plan in motion, our focus might change instead of constantly dwelling on the bad.

[Virgil Showlion]

If you want to get into the theologicall, wasn't it Eve's sons Cain and Abel who were the first perpretrator/victim of evil?

Cain murdered Abel. There's no scriptural indication that it was mankind's first murder. In any case, it certainly wasn't the first evil act committed.

If you believe in Darwinism, then early man probably committed evil a lot earlier - fighting/killing over food or killing to survive.

I don't see how you could even define such acts as 'evil' in a Darwinian framework. Ruthlessly dispatching your competitors and their offspring is the evolutionary ideal in such a system.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2012 20:30:05 GMT -5 @shooby said:

There would be moral evils such as child abuse, murder, rape, etc.

Understood. Immorality, then, which may be a facet of certain mental illnesses.

I guess we also have to ask if "Good" exists as well? Yes?

I'm gonna go with a variation on Lone's karma-worthy:

"My belief is that we are a part of God and God is pure love, how then can we be evil?"

… good and evil are perceptual illusions.

[Deleted]

The word evil is maddeningly subjective.
Humans who demonstrate the behavior some label evil are psychopathic or sociopaths.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2012 22:29:27 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Dec 23, 2012 20:30:05 GMT -5 @shooby said:

There would be moral evils such as child abuse, murder, rape, etc.

Understood. Immorality, then, which may be a facet of certain mental illnesses.

I guess we also have to ask if "Good" exists as well? Yes?

I'm gonna go with a variation on Lone's karma-worthy:

"My belief is that we are a part of God and God is pure love, how then can we be evil?"

… good and evil are perceptual illusions.

Why the instance on this notion of "illusion"? We aren't an illusion. We are material beings, flesh and bone. The deaths of those children were not some good/evil illusion but a reality.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Dec 23, 2012 8:32:16 GMT -5 busymom said:

Do I believe evil exists? Sadly, yes. My personal belief is that God created man as a perfect being, but original sin brought evil into the world.


IMHO, evil is the ultimate form of selfishness.

as to all, but especially to the bolded section.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Dec 23, 2012 19:51:32 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

To me it's as simple as 'evil is as evil does'. An evil individual is one who commits evil acts, regardless of whether the behaviour is learned, inborn, coerced, or any combination of the three.

I agree with BTDT et al. that defining 'evil' is the stickier issue, given the varied opinions here about the nature of morality. Obviously my insistence on the moral authority of the Bible is well known.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2012 23:02:53 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Why the instance on this notion of "illusion"?

Well, I agree with Lone in that there is only one thing in existence, so good & evil form a dichotomy that exists as a result of the mistaken interpretation of this one thing as consisting of distinct phenomena; through realising this, the dichotomy is resolved -revealing its illusory nature.

The deaths of those children were not some good/evil illusion but a reality.

A person may continue to perceive good and evil, indeed, but this wasn't your question.

[Reckless Roselia]

Dec 23, 2012 19:05:45 GMT -5 beags said:

Dec 23, 2012 12:09:08 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

I don't think anyone is born evil.

Me either I think it may have more to do with their surroundings, and what type of people they associate with.

Yeh, no one is evil via genetics. Evil doesn't run in the blood. It's more to do with the environmental factors surrounding us.

Why the instance on this notion of "illusion"? We aren't an illusion.

Evil and Good aren't illusions. They surely do exist but like I've mentioned it's all about perception.

[hoops902]

Dec 23, 2012 4:39:27 GMT -5 @shooby said:

A game of semantics? You can truly look at goings on in the world and say it is "just a matter of perception" and that there is no Real Evil? Wow.

Of course it's a matter of perception. Look at all the things many people in the US would call "evil" vs "good".

Foreigners drop bombs on the US = evil
US drops bombs on others = not evil

I believe there are many more examples. The problem with saying it's not a matter of perception, is that how evil is defined is based purely on someone's perception of good and evil.

I believe there is a very thin subset of actions which nearly everyone would agree is evil...VERY thin.

[Reckless Roselia]

Dec 24, 2012 10:04:50 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Dec 23, 2012 4:39:27 GMT -5 @shooby said:

A game of semantics? You can truly look at goings on in the world and say it is "just a matter of perception" and that there is no Real Evil? Wow.

Of course it's a matter of perception. Look at all the things many people in the US would call "evil" vs "good".

Foreigners drop bombs on the US = evil
US drops bombs on others = not evil

I believe there are many more examples. The problem with saying it's not a matter of perception, is that how evil is defined is based purely on someone's perception of good and evil.

I believe there is a very thin subset of actions which nearly everyone would agree is evil...VERY thin.

Very well written.

[hoops902]

Dec 24, 2012 10:23:30 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

The problem with saying it's not a matter of perception, is that how evil is defined is based purely on someone's perception of good and evil.

That's even if one believes in good and evil.

I agree, but I think it's less problematic to debate whether it exists or not vs whether something is classified as evil or not and by whom given the assumption that it does exist.

Similarly, look at how many wars have been fought over whether God exists...none? Now look at how many wars have been fought, given that the groups believe "God" DOES exist, but fighting over who God is and what God wants...many.

If I don't believe in evil, then I don't really care if you think what I'm doing is evil. If I do believe in evil, then I probably do care that what I'm doing is being described as evil. (or if I don't care, I'm probably more likely to care or be offended given that I do believe in the concept initially).

[grits]

Oh I know for sure evil exists. I used to walk past an old house, and every time I passed it I felt an extreme sense of evil. Years later, I found out a man lived there who was a satanist. He was always casting spells, and engaging in satanist ceremonies in that house.