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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 0:43:11 GMT -5
Message deleted by ImAnAngel.
Nevermind, after reading the rest of the thread I see that it was addressed that her mom wasn't just a goofy drunk relative...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 1:10:16 GMT -5
Your mom feakin shot your dad!!! And now everyone wants you to carry on like it didn't happen. You aren't the crazy one. Holy cow! I didn't see that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 1:25:27 GMT -5
Enjoy your holiday guilt free. Your kids deserve it and so do you!
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Nov 19, 2012 7:37:41 GMT -5
Geena,
Despite the criticism I've heard over the years, the best gift I ever gave my kids was a childhood that didn't include my parents. They were toxic to my brothers and me, and I just wasn't willing to let them have at another generation.
Putting your kids first, despite how it strains your relationship with other members of the family, makes you a good parent.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 9:05:34 GMT -5
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Nov 19, 2012 9:13:36 GMT -5
Your mom feakin shot your dad!!! And now everyone wants you to carry on like it didn't happen. You aren't the crazy one. totally agree with swamp on this one...i mean, holy shit, what does someone have to do for grandma and aunt to stop being enablers??? FFS, she SHOT him! My first thought is even farther than that. If someone else told you that they were thinking of putting their children around known alcholoic and drug addict types who regularly fall off the wagon and knife and shoot people wouldn't you question whether they were a fit parent? I know I sure would. IMO you are doing the only thing you can do in this case and remain a good parent. No guilt necessary for that. If you really wanted to go by yourself and leave the kids and DH I would think you are crazy but would understand. No way should your kids be exposed to them to me. I am sorry you are having such a rough start to the holidays! I hope it gets better and if you want you can bag the whole thing and come up here for some football, overeating and maybe a little shopping. No drama involved uless you want to invite Drama also.
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Nov 19, 2012 9:41:28 GMT -5
Absolutely! I so agree with this!
I had a sister that I had to keep my kids from, while constantly having to fend my case with my mom. I loved my mom, but I won that battle. I am so glad that I stuck to my decision. You will be too!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 19, 2012 9:44:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't get within rifle range of the woman, let alone break bread with her. She should be in some sort of treatment center, or jail. No, you are not the crazy one by any means. Rereading that the shooting happened *last* year I think the crazy ones are Grandma, Aunt and Uncle. Stay sane and far away.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 10:19:32 GMT -5
I have a few eccentrics and characters in my extended family…you know, the kind that just have to hear a certain song and do the crazy dance while everyone else is still having dinner, but this is just WOW!
Mean drunks with guns are not only not fun, they are dangerous.
It is blindingly obvious that you are doing the right thing.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 19, 2012 11:13:49 GMT -5
I've been criticized for my problem solving skills - but I would say I'm at least average if this is even a possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 12:18:16 GMT -5
I've been criticized for my problem solving skills - but I would say I'm at least average if this is even a possibility. And people think I am bad for letting my husband go to bed angry.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Nov 19, 2012 12:48:51 GMT -5
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Nov 19, 2012 18:17:43 GMT -5
Thanks all again. And yea when I think about it, or seem to talk to anyone outside of the family it does seem that the blindingly obvious is to stay far away from my parents. The hard part comes in with the constant defending it to my aunt and grandmother, and when it comes to them I most likely do still have some colored glasses on. I don't want to see them as not normal, I don't want to see them as damage, I want to have a good relationship with them, I want my girls to have a good relationship with them, but I'm not willing to compromise where my parents are concerned. I just wish that they could respect and understand our choice with my parents.
Breaking the cycle is hard, not because of what I lose from my parents, but the collateral damage to other interwoven relationships.
We will be going down to my ILs, which will be a wonderful time. My ILs are the karma balance for my parents.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Nov 19, 2012 18:23:37 GMT -5
Angel my DH must trust me because the man will not only go to bed angry, but he will go to bed when I'm angry and can't sleep.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Nov 19, 2012 18:39:36 GMT -5
Breaking the cycle is hard, not because of what I lose from my parents, but the collateral damage to other interwoven relationships.
In my case, I walked away from everyone because it was the only way it was going to work. Despite the fact that I still feel the loss, I don't regret my decisions.
I replaced my toxic parents and the relatives who enabled them with people of my own choosing. People who bring positives to our lives.
As recently as yesterday I heard DD explaining to a friend who had never been to our house who all the people in the "family photo" are and how our lives are interwoven. It was proof that replacing my family with a network of caring people was the right thing to do.
When the kids were young, I promised them that I would explain everything when they were older and I felt confident that they would understand. They were 12 and 15 when something happened and I sat them down and told them what was going on and how I was going to handle it. By then they were mature enough to at least begin to understand.
I also told them they have the option of pursuing a relationship as adults if they so chose. My mother has since died, so that won't happen. I don't know what if anything they would ever do about my father. The important thing is that I protected them when they couldn't protect themselves. And in doing so, I protected myself and gave myself a chance to heal and make a better life for myself.
Hugs. I know this is hard.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Nov 19, 2012 18:58:24 GMT -5
I'm not even thinking right now about explaining things to my DDs, my brother's suicide was a hard one because ODD did know him. ODD did pick up on some things last year, enough to know that grandma did something really bad.
Sometimes I swing the other way and regret that my ODD did have 5 years of "knowing" although even then it was limited to these holiday get together and family events, my parents.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Nov 19, 2012 19:27:26 GMT -5
Here's my rule for judging whether I should be involving my ( only ) child in a bad family situation, even now. (It doesn't come up much, but once in awhile I have a question about whether it would upset her to be at something, and that doesn't involve shooting anyone....)
I you are at the mall, or in a restaurant or in an airport, and some people near you are acting in a manner that you find possibly harmful to your children, you would get them away from the disturbance asap. If someone was drunk or high and acting dangerous, you'd hustle them out of the person's vicinity immediately, and probably call the police. If your parent(s) act drunk, or high, or violent or dangerous, then you would immediately take your daughters out of the situation. So, you should not go to the family Thanksgiving whatsoever, and you should not feel badly about not going. You and your husband and girls need to be safe, not shot or assaulted.
Good luck and remember that everyone is responsible for conducting themselves to the best of their abilities at all time. Even if your mother and father are not well, they still have the responsibility of showing up at grandma's house sober and nice. That's not going to happen, so you need to take other measures. And your grandma, aunt and uncle aren't acting properly toward you, either.
You can go and see them some other time, when dear old mom and dad aren't there. Don't give granny and autie and uncle much advance warning, either, so that they can call mom & dad and have them surprise you....
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Nov 19, 2012 19:30:58 GMT -5
You have every right (and responsibility) to keep your children away from dangerous people.
It changes nothing if you happen to call those people "family."
Hugs to you and consider me another poster who knows you are the sane one :-)
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Nov 19, 2012 20:06:05 GMT -5
Honestly, you should probably keep an eye on the relationship between your daughters and your aunt and grandmother as well. They aren't violent addicts like your mom, but anyone who would "feel bad leaving mom out" even though she fucking shot somebody at the table is clearly not a picture of mental health and healthy relationships.
We have some similar types in my family to your mom, and part of breaking the cycle is not only cutting out the abusers, but also recognizing and minimizing the enablers and codependent types. It sucks. They mean well. But you have to reprogram your thinking. Apologizing for a family member attempting to sexually assault another family member (talking about my family baggage now not yours) isn't normal. Normal people don't do that. If a normal person came home and found out their husband had tried to sexually assault his step daughter, so the daughter shot him in the foot to keep him away, they don't try to sweep that under the rug and look the other way. Cutting the abusers themselves out of your life, and your children's, is great, but surrounding them with the abusers enablers and codependent apologists isn't healthy either.
Obviously, I don't know your family members, but just something to think about.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Nov 19, 2012 20:21:27 GMT -5
We do keep an eye on the relationship between my aunt, grandmother and the girls. I wouldn't put it pass them to try and sneak gifts or talking about my mom to the girls. My grandmother more then my aunt. I know that when my mom cut off my other grandmother they both still allowed her to have contact with us when we were with them. On the other hand I don't think my mom gave a care on what we did when we were with them as she was just happy to have us gone.
Besides this push for the holiday, which I do believe is more about them wanting us there then for them, they have respect the fact that I don't want anything to do with my mom. I do stop by at least once a week, I drive by the farm on my way home from work to visit with them. My aunt always lets me know in advance when my mom plans on coming so I won't stop by that day. It is more they just can't understand why we can't come for them, and pretend my parents aren't even in the room.
We do have in our will if something happens to us DD's go to my ILs 100 percent and my parents are to have no contact. We may need to update that to add that if those wishes are not followed by my aunt and grandmother then they can lose contact too.
I do hear where you are coming from dark, I just don't know how ready I am to have a hard line with my aunt and grandmother.
On another note I do worry that in 10 to 16 years when the girls do get the full story and do make their choice that they will think I was the crazy one. Hopefully not.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Nov 19, 2012 20:35:05 GMT -5
It's tough. I totally know how that goes. You don't want to cut the kids off from family completely, and I haven't done that with my daughters. Let's just say there are certain family members I hope they never get super close too or turn to for relationship advice. Not that those folks are bad people really, they're just so emotionally jacked up that their worldview is totally skewed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 20:37:54 GMT -5
Your Mom SHOT your Dad. Really, you are in the clear here.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 3:28:49 GMT -5
Your Mom SHOT your Dad. Really, you are in the clear here. And it wasn't the first time she attacked him! This time she just happened to have a gun. Geena you are NOT the crazy one and your girls will know that. You are being a good mother and protecting them...your mom is dangerous and should not be walking the streets. I still do not understand HOW she got off on shooting your dad. I would love to hear how that happened sometime. PM me or FB me if you don't mind sharing the story!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 20, 2012 4:29:28 GMT -5
We do keep an eye on the relationship between my aunt, grandmother and the girls. I wouldn't put it pass them to try and sneak gifts or talking about my mom to the girls. My grandmother more then my aunt. I know that when my mom cut off my other grandmother they both still allowed her to have contact with us when we were with them. On the other hand I don't think my mom gave a care on what we did when we were with them as she was just happy to have us gone. Besides this push for the holiday, which I do believe is more about them wanting us there then for them, they have respect the fact that I don't want anything to do with my mom. I do stop by at least once a week, I drive by the farm on my way home from work to visit with them. My aunt always lets me know in advance when my mom plans on coming so I won't stop by that day. It is more they just can't do not want to understand why we can't come for them, and pretend my parents aren't even in the room. We do have in our will if something happens to us DD's go to my ILs 100 percent and my parents are to have no contact. We may need to update that to add that if those wishes are not followed by my aunt and grandmother then they can lose contact too. I do hear where you are coming from dark, I just don't know how ready I am to have a hard line with my aunt and grandmother. On another note I do worry that in 10 to 16 years when the girls do get the full story and do make their choice that they will think I was the crazy one. Hopefully not. Fixed. They want to pretend the family and your mother in specific is mostly OK. I think you wish it was true which is why this is so hard for you. One of these days since Grandma is getting older, Mom may pull the knife and someone won't get there in time. You need to remind yourself that Mom could pull a knife out on you, your hubby or your kids. You've been conditioned to believe its not that bad which is why emotionally I think you are having such a hard time with it. If anything I think your kids will think you were crazy for worrying about this. They will be happy they were spared the drama and possible threats to their lives. Really.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Nov 20, 2012 6:39:05 GMT -5
I still do not understand HOW she got off on shooting your dad. I would love to hear how that happened sometime. PM me or FB me if you don't mind sharing the story!
Mostly because dad missed her and wanted her home. He asked the commonwealth attorney to go easy on her. And the commonwealth attorney allowed him to set the standard to a degree. Dad had asked for all charges to be dropped at one time. She he offered and she took an alford plea, got 10 years I think it could have been 8, broken up; 8 months in jail, so she had to go back for like 2 months, 2 years of supervise probation and the rest unsupervised. I don't know how much the lawyer my aunt paid for helped or not, but he pretty much was telling everyone to get her to take any plea. Although she did say she wouldn't take a plea that she admitted guilt too. At this point this also had been going on from August to May, I think the lawyers were just done with it.
They were suppose to get rid of the guns before she came home, but I doubt it. However to be fair I don't know. She wasn't suppose to drink when she was out on bond, she did I doubt being on probation will be any different.
I still think she should be in a mental hospital. There is something not right up there, of course this seems to translate to my family that I hate her. I don't hate her, I do love her. And to be honest if she was in a mental hospital full time I would visit her and support her, so I guess there it is, my line for my mom. To have a relationship with her she would need to be under full doctor supervision. Perhaps even allowing that condition would be allowing to much and shows that I'm still not ready to make a hard line with my mom either of never.
Last time I saw her was after the trial but before she went back to jail for the two months. I met her for lunch to talk about what boundaries I would need in place to have a relationship with her and for the girls too. It was sitting there listening to her I realized that there was nothing she could say or do that would make me want one, or want her around my girls. I was just sitting there realizing I am so done with all of this. So I paid for lunch for both of us, (later found out that both my aunt and grandmother had given her money so she could make a show of treating me) and left.
There are a few items they have that I would have liked, things that have been passed down from my dads side for generations, but I'm not willing to keep contact for that. It is in the end stuff, so be it. Most likely when they do kick the bucket I'll have to deal with that mess anyways, I doubt either will do final arrangement plans.
I guess I do need to remember that it will take time for all the dust to stop flying and for the new normal for my family to be set.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Nov 20, 2012 6:46:31 GMT -5
And you guys don't know how many times I have had to stop my self from typing........ but it isn't every holiday/family get together that she goes crazy, we had some nice ones. The ones where the time bomb actually went off are in the minority percent, truthfully still double digits but most likely teens or twenty.
2 years ago I know I would have said that, and also included some of her better qualities as defense for her. Now I can see that even a small percent is still too much, but damn I still have the urge.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Nov 20, 2012 6:51:13 GMT -5
You know, it is said that the holidays are the worst time of the year for people who are depressed. Everything is supposed to be all 'Norman Rockwell', but it isn't. So if your family is dysfunctional, you start thinking 'why am I not normal?' 'Why is my family the ONLY one going through this'? When actually there are ALOT of families that would just like to skip straight from Nov 1 to Jan 2.
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Nov 20, 2012 7:27:59 GMT -5
geena, no matter what...you will Always love your mother! There's nothing wrong with that! It's normal, hon. Loving someone and knowing what has to be done to protect your kids are two totally different things. I truly admire you for being so strong for your children. I know it's been hard. As I said before, I have a sister that I truly loved and she loved my son a lot. However, she got mixed up with drugs and then wanted to act like nothing had changed. Wanted to keep my son for the summer months (she lived 300 miles away) and us all be happy and merry! Not gonna happen, and it didn't. My mom just couldn't' seem to understand why I kept my son from my sister! Really? Her defense for my sister was 'you know she would never do drugs in front of him, don't you?' Ummmmm....hello! NO I don't know this mom!....and I'm not going to let my son even be around someone that I know does it either! This was not just marijuana, mind you. She was into Heroin and God knows what else!
Long story, short....she ended up almost dying from being stabbed by a drug dealer...Spent time in prison later on for drug possession....Her son is now a drug addict and thief.....
My son is a CW3 Test pilot in the Army....No, I don't regret my decision...And you won't either, love...
Hang in there! You will feel sad at times. Maybe even guilty...But, you ARE doing the right thing! One day, your kids will thank you for caring for their needs above your wants!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 20, 2012 8:22:53 GMT -5
Your Mom SHOT your Dad. Really, you are in the clear here. Yep. Basically, that's it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 19:52:58 GMT -5
I still think she should be in a mental hospital. There is something not right up there, of course this seems to translate to my family that I hate her. I don't hate her, I do love her. I'm so sorry. If it helps, you're not alone. The same thing happened with my mom. Grandma was schizophrenic at a time when there wasn't medication for it. At first grandma would just do stuff like tell mom sex riddled, illogical stories about the neighbors and bring home suitcases full of broken glass from vacations. It culminated into being called by the cops because grandma was wandering naked on the street covered in her own feces. Her two brothers maintained for years and years that mom was the crazy one, grandma was totally fine. They only admitted it after Grandma died at exactly 100 years old, after mom took care of her for 25+ years. The brothers and their wives couldn't hack 6 months of caring for her. Mom has a lot of demons from being called a liar, the crazy one for so many years. Now that Grandma has passed away, she won't talk to her brothers ever again. She's much happier for it. Dad's side is similarly off; one aunt used to hit her sons despite multiple interventions, the other did things like steal my cousin's (her daughter's) very touching eulogy at a funeral, leaving the cousin shocked and not sure what to say when she stood up. There are some upsides to getting though hard times. Mom became a highly requested teacher who helped lots of kids. She could tell who was being bullied, who was struggling, because she was extremely good at the truth or lie game. She made her class a safe place. Mom and dad both also worked really hard to make sure everyone in our immediate family loves and respects each other. They succeeded. I think you're stronger for your experiences, and I think you're making good choices, working hard for your kids. for holding your ground. You are the sane one. Logic is definitely on your side, your kids' safety comes first. I personally think your kids will understand and thank you for it one day. At first I wasn't sure, because I didn't know much about my extended family, but when I did meet them, I understood. Even in short time frames, they just... were very off. It doesn't help that I'm physically mom's clone, so any beef they have with her, they'll take out on me. **edit: Just for clarifications' sake, part of the reason mom's brothers could shut their eyes so tightly was because they were 18 and 20 when mom was born. She was a "woah, really?" baby late in grandma's life, after the brothers had already left home and situation was devolving.
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