resolution
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Post by resolution on Oct 17, 2012 13:12:02 GMT -5
You could always turn off FOX and catch good ol' Rush on the radio. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) i find the notion that someone can tell what media i consume by how i post to be hilarious. oh, and if someone wants to take me to task for mentioning the right wing blogosphere, that was "tit for tat". That's ok, someone in another thread knows my party affiliation better than I do myself.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Oct 17, 2012 13:13:27 GMT -5
You can't blame it solely on out-of-wedlock births, no matter how much you want to. No one put sole blame on single parents. so this is a non sequitur
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 13:14:00 GMT -5
Obama comes out on top and I learned that Romney has a binder full of women. Some guys have all the luck… ;D
That is all.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 17, 2012 13:17:50 GMT -5
You can't blame it solely on out-of-wedlock births, no matter how much you want to. No one put sole blame on single parents. so this is a non sequitur I believe that PBP did. 'Single parenthood causes poverty and poverty causes crime." If A equal B and B equals C, then A equals C.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 17, 2012 13:18:45 GMT -5
i find the notion that someone can tell what media i consume by how i post to be hilarious. oh, and if someone wants to take me to task for mentioning the right wing blogosphere, that was "tit for tat". That's ok, someone in another thread knows my party affiliation better than I do myself. it is remarkable how many clairvoyants occupy the boards.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 17, 2012 13:19:57 GMT -5
That's ok, someone in another thread knows my party affiliation better than I do myself. -------------- That was pretty funny. He also knows what we REALLY think, and how we REALLY feel. His talent knows no bounds.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 17, 2012 13:22:49 GMT -5
Yes, but this is because they view the marriage ceremony as somewhat superfluous. Couples bearing children will cohabit and then marry later, or never perform the ceremony. It doesn't mean that the 55% of children born out of wedlock are all raised by single parents.
The Scandinavian countries are also incredibly wealthy, with the highest payouts to single parents of any nations on earth, including state-funded child support if a walk-out mom or dad refuses to pay child support.
Finally, there are obviously cultural factors that make them a non-violent people overall. Pacifism is their culture and heritage. If you want a correlation between single parenthood and violence, find a report that contrasts Scandinavian children raised by single parents to the baseline Scandinavian family. I'm not able to find anything, I'm guessing because Scandinavia is a region rather than a nation.
I think it's one of many contributing factors—and a major one, as Paul has said.
It become manifest with poverty, which is currently lacking in both Quebec and Scandinavia because of the socialist infrastructure. An infrastructure—I might add—whose costs and IOUs are rapidly rising to where they're no longer affordable.
I'm not. I readily admit there are many factors.
You can't say that it isn't a factor, no matter how much you want to.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 17, 2012 13:25:12 GMT -5
For now. How many months were they shut down for before the province caved? Statistically in the US it does. No, it really doesn't. There is no way to prove causation vs correlation in this case. I don't even think there is much of a causation between single motherhood causing poverty as PBP indicated. I think that is correlational as well. I think if you already live in poverty you are more likely to become a single mother. But, becoming or choosing to become a single mother does not push a person into poverty that wasn't already really close & pretty much living that lifestyle. It has more to do with being raised in a poverty mindset & a cycle that is hard to break out of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 13:28:23 GMT -5
Really Paul? You cannot separate the two? Then riddle me this. Where I live, in Quebec, we have over 60% of children born out of wedlock. Marriage has long fallen out of favour, with fewer than 3 in 10 people tying the knot. Yet, we have incredibly low crime rates. Why do you suppose that is? Clearly, you CAN separate the two. The profile of unwed families/single parent households is way different in the U.S. than in other countries. It's one of the reasons the household income gap is increasing.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 17, 2012 13:29:15 GMT -5
Oooh- Canada on Canada rumble! A break from the usual blue vs. red rumble! -------------- Won't be the first time. And the skinny Liberal has the Conservative senator on the ropes...! ![](http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTk0DiMh0uShZv92zKaDNWzHmV3EOIkat-CxyKqaG-FebIwIYWhew)
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 13:34:07 GMT -5
I'm not hearing a lot of confidence in this alleged Obama debate win... www.cnn.com/2012/10/15/politics/romney-polls/index.htmlAnalysts: Romney bolstered by right-wing 'leaners' Oh, really? Did these same analysts notice that the lib moderator stepped all over Romney and bolstered Obama's argument even though she and Obama were wrong?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 17, 2012 13:35:38 GMT -5
I agree we have to be careful.
Nevertheless, the correlation exists.
The logic: (single parenthood) CAUSES (increased poverty) CAUSES (increased violence) makes sense to me, and indeed by all transitive laws I'm aware of, this implies (single parenthood) CAUSES (increased violence).
Having said so, this is not "direct" causation. And like you, I see no reason to assume that having only one parent inspires violence ipso facto.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 17, 2012 13:48:12 GMT -5
I agree we have to be careful. Nevertheless, the correlation exists. The logic: (single parenthood) CAUSES (increased poverty) CAUSES (increased violence) makes sense to me, and indeed by all transitive laws I'm aware of, this implies (single parenthood) CAUSES (increased violence). I completely agree the correlation exists, I just don't see causation where others do. Honestly I think there is a single factor that leads a person to be more likely to be violent, to end up a single mother, & end up in poverty. I don't know what to call it - a victim mindset maybe, which partly comes from being raised in poverty. If you are raised in that environment you see the world through different eyes than the rest of us & you get trapped in the cycle - which leads to poverty, violence, & being a single mother. And when I say single mother, I mean single mother in the terms that PBP usually uses it - knocked up young, broke & without a serious significant other. I am glad to see he now at least admits that this stereotype does not make up 100% of single mothers. I think education for young people in poverty is far more important to end the cycle than to suggest they make sure to get married before procreating. Marriage itself won't bring a person out of poverty either. I understand the 2 income vs 1 argument, but most of these people are living with someone already. The marriage certificate isn't suddenly going to increase household income. ETA - What i am trying to say is that changing the circumstances through say a marriage doesn't change the mindset or the end results. You have to change the mindset to change the end results of poverty/violence/single mothers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 14:00:40 GMT -5
ETA - What i am trying to say is that changing the circumstances through say a marriage doesn't change the mindset or the end results. You have to change the mindset to change the end results of poverty/violence/single mothers. I agree. People who are successful at marriage probably have skills that make them successful in other areas of their life - compromise, communication, willingness to delay gratification, ability to focus and complete school. The paper alone won't raise anyone out of poverty. Teaching those skills is hard.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 17, 2012 14:10:16 GMT -5
My worry remains that if there is indeed causation through some complex relationship, and moreover if the problem is accelerating or self-compounding, we can philosophize and conjecture about cause/effect until the cows come home while reality marches forward.
What we think will happen or logically should happen unfortunately has no influence on the nature—the laws, if you will—of reality.
Since this issue isn't connected to any matter of public policy, I submit that our debating it at length is moot. The course has been set and all that remains for us is to observe where it takes us.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 17, 2012 14:19:15 GMT -5
The Columbine killers were neithr the products of poverty nor single parent families. We are ignoring the elephant in the room (as both candidates did last night). The easy access that disturbed individuals have to weapons of mass distruction.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 14:22:18 GMT -5
The Columbine killers were neithr the products of poverty nor single parent families. We are ignoring the elephant in the room (as both candidates did last night). The easy access that disturbed individuals have to weapons of mass distruction. A rifle is now a weapon of mass destruction. According to that fucked up stupid as shit logic then Hussein did have weapons that we needed to go after and you agree with Bush... So fucking stupid.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 14:23:55 GMT -5
That's quite the definitive statement. You're stating that anti-poverty programs don't subsidize the exact behavior that leads to poverty, and thus welfare isn't a self-perpetuating cycle of (relative) poverty, and dependency?
You have never witnessed the employment situation improve just coincidentally when people reach the end of their unemployment benefits?
You didn't see the unemployment rate under Bill Clinton and the Gingrich-led conservative GOP Congress drop precipitously just as the five year limit and work requirements for welfare recipients were imposed?
Moral problems have economic consequences. The more wrapped up a society is in providing public assistance to people whose moral depravity has put them into poverty, the more there is a public policy solution.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 14:27:28 GMT -5
The Columbine killers were neithr the products of poverty nor single parent families. We are ignoring the elephant in the room (as both candidates did last night). The easy access that disturbed individuals have to weapons of mass distruction. A rifle is now a weapon of mass destruction. According to that fucked up stupid as shit logic then Hussein did have weapons that we needed to go after and you agree with Bush... So fucking stupid. ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif) Nor, are reasonable solutions embraced by the gun controllers. Licensed, trained, armed teachers and concealed carry weapons holders who are law abiding tend to, well...abide by the law, and acquiesce to requests by private property owners not to bring weapons into certain places. You'll never stop a crazy person bent on murder with a piece of paper shuffled around a state house and signed by the governor somewhere. You can stop them by shooting them. Nobody on the left seems to be able to embrace this simple truth.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 17, 2012 15:01:42 GMT -5
The Columbine killers were neithr the products of poverty nor single parent families. We are ignoring the elephant in the room (as both candidates did last night). The easy access that disturbed individuals have to weapons of mass distruction. A rifle is now a weapon of mass destruction. According to that fucked up stupid as shit logic then Hussein did have weapons that we needed to go after and you agree with Bush... So fucking stupid. Although I hardly approve of your tone, it is fair to point out (per Wiki): Canada has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world. There are almost as many rifles per capita in Canada as in the United States.[6] Gun ownership rate is about 29% of households with great regional variations. Typically, rural is much higher than urban, west higher than east. The majority of Canadian firearms include rifles, shotguns, and pistols. Firearms are readily available to licensed Canadian citizens. Fully automatic firearms are an exception and are generally prohibited from private ownership. Even so, our per-capita murder rates are less than half those in the US. I'm saying that insofar as I'm aware, neither Pres. Obama nor Mr. Romney have tabled policies that attempt to promote or discourage single parenthood. In short, it's a phenomenon that's going to occur regardless of which party wins the election, and I see no point in debating it in this thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 15:02:50 GMT -5
There is no reason to kill when you live in a socialist utopia.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 17, 2012 15:11:22 GMT -5
There is no reason to kill when you live in a socialist utopia. You'd think so, but our suicide rate (15 per 100,000) is higher than yours (12.1 per 100,000). And in fact, since the US murder rate is 4.8 per 100,000, the number of Canadians who kill themselves (per capita) is roughly equal to the number of Americans who kill themselves plus the number of Americans who kill each other. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 15:15:21 GMT -5
Its the lack of warmth/sunshine i'm sure ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 17, 2012 15:16:33 GMT -5
Its the lack of warmth/sunshine i'm sure ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ... Yep, SAD has to hit harder in the far north ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 15:26:50 GMT -5
On September 30, 2012 Candy Crowley said to David Axelrod that Obama did NOT call the Benghazi attack an act of terror. She just flat out lied last night folks and she knew it.
Hey liberal media...we're not just on to you, we're going to come back at you with the facts in front of a bigger audience than you could ever hope to have. Your monopoly on information, and influence over public opinion is on the wane.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 15:28:19 GMT -5
RE: 273- OK, fair enough point- but that's a far different statement from saying that it doesn't have a public policy cause or remedy.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 17, 2012 15:28:26 GMT -5
Its the lack of warmth/sunshine i'm sure ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ... Whatever the reason, (and I consider this to be profoundly ironic,) the vast majority of gun violence in Canada is suicidal.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 17, 2012 15:31:19 GMT -5
Where in Canada is the suicide rate the highest, Virgil?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 15:32:25 GMT -5
Where in Canada is the suicide rate the highest, Virgil? Surprisingly, amongst Virgil's colleagues.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 17, 2012 15:33:08 GMT -5
Its the lack of warmth/sunshine i'm sure ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ... Hey, it isn't nice to talk about the postings of our friends from Canada's that way. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png)
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