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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 15:39:24 GMT -5
Just curious what a group from a money board feels about this. My oldest son (currently in 5th grade) goes to a charter Montessori school, which I love, but soon it will be time to move him to a traditional high school. He could attend the Montessori through 8th grade, but I'm leaning towards moving him after 6th grade so he gets some "practice" in the traditional classroom setting, homework, etc. in Jr. High before moving on to where it counts more. There are two choices in our town. The public school (which I graduated from) and the Catholic school. DH (older son's stepfather) is a Catholic and is for the private school all the way, in fact he would have preferred they started in kindy, but I was very happy with the free charter. For high school though, I'm not so sure. I've really gotten used to the small school feel from the Montessori and love that all the teachers and staff know me. It really is very family-like and I'll miss that...the public high school which is quite large...but then again, it is free. The private school would be 3K a year for 7th and 8th grade and 6K a year for 9-12. But something like 75% receive some kind of aid. It's a beautiful campus (ex-college campus), which also boards a lot of international students and there is an endowment fund that grants a scholarship to all graduating seniors. How much you get is based on your class rank, participation in extracurriculars and ACT score, but last year the typical student received $1500 renewable for 4 years, so 6K of the 30K tuition back. Part of me is saying put that money away for college instead, but the other part of me thinks of it as an investment. He has some social issues and I really believe he would do better in a small school. Any advice on how to weigh the pros and cons?
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Oct 12, 2012 15:45:22 GMT -5
A non-money question: What does your son want to do? Your post is all about what you like and what you'll miss. And that's certainly very important since you are the parent and you're paying. But what does he think?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 15:51:23 GMT -5
A non-money question: What does your son want to do? Your post is all about what you like and what you'll miss. And that's certainly very important since you are the parent and you're paying. But what does he think? I have actually asked him which one he would prefer to attend and he doesn't seem to have any opinion one way or the other. I suppose that would be a good approach we take. Take him to visit both, talk to him about the differences he'll experience and try to give an unbiased view of both and see what he has to say.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Oct 12, 2012 15:52:34 GMT -5
I agree with kgb. At least for us, it was much more about the needs and learning style of the individual child than just about money. [For the record, one was in Catholic school and one was in public school. They both got college degrees - and the one who went to public school became a lawyer.]
Especially pay attention to your child's social needs. He will never even GET to college if he doesn't do well/thrive academically in secondary school! Yeah money is important and a definite factor, but education as a means of life-long stability for your child's future is critical. JMHO and good luck to you!
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Oct 12, 2012 15:56:55 GMT -5
Obviously you have to make the final call as to what you think is best. You're the parent. You're the adult. But I think he's old enough to be given some information (visits to both, like you mentioned) and see what he thinks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 16:00:15 GMT -5
the one who went to public school became a lawyer.]
Oh, well then we're definitely going Catholic. LOL
Honestly, DS is very smart...freakishly so...but kind of a social misfit. I think he'll get eaten alive at the public school. But, then again, maybe I'm just being overprotective.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 16:00:21 GMT -5
You might want to talk to the schools about their bullying policies if your kid is socially awkward. In some cases public schools are much tougher on the topic than private ones. DH went to private Catholic schools and got bullied. It was known by the administration and accepted as part of growing up. OTOH when DH finally got fed up and threw one of the kids into the bushes in front of a teacher DH wasn't punished.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Oct 12, 2012 16:01:55 GMT -5
the one who went to public school became a lawyer.] Oh, well then we're definitely going Catholic. LOL =========================== I know, huh?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 16:09:23 GMT -5
Honestly, from what she says, there is no right answer. According her it's a matter of look at the needs of your child, pick the place where you believe they will thrive (both socially and academically), flip a coin, and hope for the best...
This is the feeling I'm starting to get too. I hate not knowing the "right" thing to do!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 16:12:03 GMT -5
Inelementary school there was a girl I hated... don't worry she hated me just as much. Both our moms went in for a shared conference and they both told the school to keep out of it and let us be, don't try to force us to be friends, don't try to make us get along, don't go out of their way to keep us separated... just let us be to figure it out.
The Montessori is really bad about trying to force friendships and cracking down on any kind of behavior that is in the slightest way disrespectful to a classmate. IMO, they are way to extreme there and I think they should just let them work it out without always interfering.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Oct 12, 2012 16:15:59 GMT -5
Honestly, from what she says, there is no right answer. According her it's a matter of look at the needs of your child, pick the place where you believe they will thrive (both socially and academically), flip a coin, and hope for the best...This is the feeling I'm starting to get too. I hate not knowing the "right" thing to do! Well FWIW, try not to worry too much - - because you have options. If one doesn't work out, well then you can always change schools (maybe not super-easily, but it CAN be done) :-) ETA: Sroo beat me to it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 12, 2012 16:22:43 GMT -5
Most experts agree that with sibling rivalry you should just let them work it out themselves, as long as it doesn't turn abusive. They say it is the best way to learn social skills. Shame on Montessori for interfering. Isn't the whole mission is to let kids learn things on their own?
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Oct 12, 2012 17:03:47 GMT -5
I think it is really hard to give advice on this one -- every kid is different, and every school is different. I really like the public schools where I live (that is part of why we moved here). But, if I felt like my child's needs were not met in the public school system, I would start researching private school choices.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 17:04:04 GMT -5
ETA:: I think you are making a good decision about the timing. Kids really do find their identity in 7th and 8th grade, so it's a good time to make this kind of change.
I'm pretty set on the 7th grade switch, which is another reason I'm leaning towards private. There, 7th-12th is all at the same school (although the 7th and 8th are mostly in a separate building) and he'd be starting out fresh with a group that is all starting there at the same time. With the public, to move him in 7th, I'd have to first send him to the middle school where all the kids have been together since 5th grade. Then at 9th they transfer to the high school. It's not a huge deal, I know kids transfer into schools all the time, even midyear, but it is something to think about.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 17:11:13 GMT -5
I don't know. I went to public school, my kids are in public school and i think they are fine. I really can't see spending what could easily be saved for college tuition on paying for private school. And, in my area, the private schools just don't offer much in terms of sports and other exracurriculars. And, i personally don't think that they are necessarily any better, just my opinion. But, you should do what you feel is best as the parent. The only thing i would say about changing schools is that you might have a period of "I wish i was back at my old school" and then if he thinks that is a possibility, he might not really settle in. I would talk to him and then make a decision. And, if you want to keep the option of returning in the back of your mind, i wouldn't necessarily tell him that is an option. I would be more matter of fact after you decide as in 'here is your school now" and let him adjust. I just say that cuz my sis sent her dd to private school, then changed to a different one and it seemed there was a lot of angst abou possibly going back and so forth until my sis just told her that she was there to stay and that was that. Then, she seemed to do much better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 17:12:41 GMT -5
I went to the public high school here and I really think they let me down and let me slip through the cracks. Granted, my mother (single mom) was completely uninvolved with my education which probably has way more to do with it than anything, but I can't help but have some negative feelings towards the school system. Which may have changed considerably and be NOTHING like the one I went to some 25 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 17:20:34 GMT -5
And, in my area, the private schools just don't offer much in terms of sports and other exracurriculars.
This wouldn't really be an issue with older son. We've tried tons of sports and he is just not into athletics at all. It's seriously not going to happen. However, the school does have a large selection of extracurricular activities and the sports that they don't have (like swimming because of no pool), they have an agreement with the public school and the kids can go there for them if they would like. Their band program is exceptionally good.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 17:23:02 GMT -5
Well, then that certainly is something you should consider. If you have strong negative feelings against the public schools then maybe you would prefer him to stay put. And, this seems to be true of most people putting kids in private schools that they think public schools are subpar. I disagre but that i just me. And, honestly, i think school is about a lot more than just academics. There are social issues, sports, music, etc. Not saying your private school doesn't have that but you might be pleasantly suprised at the public school too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 17:27:50 GMT -5
If you have strong negative feelings against the public schools then maybe you would prefer him to stay put
He's in public now (although a charter). He needs to go somewhere eventually because the school only goes to 8th grade.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 17:32:50 GMT -5
BTW, I think younger son is going to be a total opposite of his brother. Very outgoing and social with other kids and loves watching and playing sports. Granted, he's only 2 and a half, but older son was nothing like that even as a toddler. He preferred the company of adults and as soon as he could read on his own (at 3!), he'd sit with books for hours.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 12, 2012 22:10:22 GMT -5
YDS started at a Catholic high school in 7th grade (which along with 9th grade was the standard entry point). He did well in public school, is social and athletic, but we wanted challenging academics AND a commitment to social justice and Christian service intertwined throughout the day. YDS THRIVED there. He was the happiest I'd ever seen him with school. He worked hard in a very competitive environment and loved the demands. He also stretched himself spiritually and was developing in his faith. He really should have stayed, but ODS got put through the wringer for admission into 9th grade and by the time they accepted him he'd decided on public school. YDS decided then to try public high school, too. He really lost his footing for the past year and seems to be slowly coming around, but there were definitely some lost gains there. I almost feel most days that I should just send him back, but DH feels that wouldn't be fair to ODS. I personally subscribe to the "to each child according to his/her needs" philosophy. It is an unresolved issue.
I tell you all this to emphasize that most Catholic high schools are academically demanding and competitive. I also think you need to think about the faith-based piece of Catholic education. You said DH is Catholic, but I assume you are not. Are you comfortable with you DS learning about the Catholic faith in great detail, attending weekly or even daily Mass, participating in faith-based activities (Peter's Pence, Christian service days, fasting, etc.)?
Another thing to consider is the Catholic schools keep their costs down by expecting parents to contribute either financially or with time or talent. You can expect at least 1 or 2 big fundraising events per year. You can expect to be required to chaperone/assist in field trips, service trips/projects, liturgies, etc. Don't underestimate the expected parent commitment to the school. I personally enjoyed all of that stuff because it made the school feel much more like an intentional community to me and I guess I was searching for such. But, it isn't everyone's cup of tea.
Oh, and you will likely be expected to become active in a local parish, and contribute regularly to that parish's weekly and/or annual collections. And, if he hasn't started already with Baptism and First Reconciliation and First Communion, you may feel some pressure for your son to receive the Sacraments.
Is it a coed or boys school? Do you care if it is only boys? YDS's school was boys only but there was numerous opportunities to mix with area girls schools (dances, volunteer projects, theater arts, etc.). But, again, single sex schools aren't for every kid/family.
I hope I haven't scared you off. My intent is for you to realize that there is more to a Catholic education than just the tuition cost and the class sizes. Catholic schools do really well with bright, capable kids who don't need a lot of support and who are able to handle a fairly heavy workload and competition for grades. And those kids will also be taught with an emphasis on social justice and service to others (even at their own cost). If that sounds like a good fit for your DS, start attending Open Houses, go for a tour of the school, review Admissions procedures and criteria, talk to his current teachers about their opinion (you'll need teacher references). It's never too early to start exploring a Catholic education especially if you're not sure it is what you want for your son.
Good luck with it all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 23:17:06 GMT -5
You said DH is Catholic, but I assume you are not.
I'm Catholic too but rarely attend mass, however the entire family is a member of the parish and DH goes every week. DS is baptized and has received first communion, but that's about it. The religious element at the school consists of one course a year (lasts all year) and they don't do weekly mass. They occasionally hold mass, but only a few times during the year. Although I have some misgivings about the Catholic religion, I'm totally fine with him taking the required courses they have based on the descriptions in the course catalog. What I really like is the social teaching that goes along with it. All students are required to do a minimum number of hours of community service every semester which counts as a portion of their religious studies grade.
Next week is MEA weekend for the public schools, so no school Thursday or Friday. I took vacation, so DS and I are going to be thinking of something to do together during the time off. Maybe I'll arrange for a tour at the private, the times I've emailed them questions they were always offering. Public will probably be shut down those days.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Oct 13, 2012 1:03:03 GMT -5
Honestly, DS is very smart...freakishly so...but kind of a social misfit. I think he'll get eaten alive at the public school. But, then again, maybe I'm just being overprotective. You just pretty much described my son, at least twice. I went through something very similar, and also REALLY struggled with the different options. DS has Asperger's, so extremely intelligent, but not the most socially adept. He went to a private Christian school from pre-k to sixth grade. He had a couple friends, but they all ended up moving away or just being home schooled by sixth grade. So, before sixth grade I tried to get him into a charter school (I wanted the best education for him, the elementary school he would have been sent to was very large and not the best, and the regular sixth graders went to Jr. High). It was too late, registration for the charter school starts really early in the spring, so they put him on a wait list for the next year--IF the charter school was allowed to extend to seventh grade (they were trying to expand, it hadn't been approved yet). The Jr. High here is notoriously BAD, so I knew that if he didn't make it into the charter school, I'd be paying for private school for two more years, until high school. I really wanted him to have a more "public school" environment before high school, but no way was he going to this Jr. High. Seventh grade he went to the charter school. It was a great move, but he didn't make any friends there. The kids were almost all nice, but he didn't "click" with any of them. Eighth grade started out fine, but turned horrible. I seriously considered pulling him out and home schooling him for the rest of the year, but as long as he was willing, we toughed it out. He did want to go to the graduation dance, so things with the other students must have gotten better, but I'm personally glad I never have to talk to the teacher or principal ever again. He transitioned to the public high school this year as a freshman. They put him in LAP, more for the socially awkward stuff than the help-with-homework stuff. Seems like it gives him a chance to decompress and just work on his homework without being bothered too much. He's actually getting most of it done this year... He still hasn't made any friends, he eats lunch alone then reads a book in the library. I'm hoping that by the end of these four years he'll make at least one or two he has fun with, time will tell. I *know* that for him the switch to public school is necessary, it was just figuring out the best way to go about it. Hope everything works out for you--just keep your son talking if you can and try to pick up on clues he doesn't share.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 1:35:11 GMT -5
WOW - private school is very inexpensive in your area. I would make it happen if I could stretch my budget. The child's success is what he has to live on for the rest of his life. Give him the best shot at success as you can.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 6:47:08 GMT -5
Why do you assume that a child's best shot is private school versus public school? Lots of successful people have gone to public school. It seems like a lot of the "sell" of private schools is playing on fears of parents that that public schools are all drug infested dens of iniquity and that you show you really, really care about your child by sending them to private school. I think a child can do well where ever they with supportive parents and hard work.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 13, 2012 7:27:55 GMT -5
Shooby--it really depends on the area. You've said that you are in a nice, small town feel, safe feeling area. That isn't the public school experience that my ds will get AT ALL. We are in a densely populated, predominantly immigrant, esl, low income area.
We have a long term friend who teaches at a charter school less than a mile from our house. Even though this is the charter school, so you know the parents had to work at least a little bit to get the kids in there, the kids (and parents) have some very difficult issues that have to be dealt with during school hours. The class sizes are large, and the reality is that the kids who are struggling get more help than the ones who seem to do well. I grew up in well to-do suburb, and the public schools I went to are ranked #1 in the state. But it was still a reality that the kids with discipline issues or who were struggling academically got the attention and those of us who did well were left to do well on our own. Looking back on it I needed a lot more help in math, and maybe my parents should have realized that, but since I was getting straight A's, there weren't any signs that I didn't have a grasp of what we were doing.
Don't get me wrong--I have no illusion that private school will be the cure to these issues. My sister went to private catholic school for 3 years. They waited until the end of 7th grade to tell my mom that my sister hadn't done a SINGLE assignment of math homework all year and had failed the course. Report cards, parent teacher conferences--not a word. The attitude was that kids would come around to learning on their own if they weren't pressured. Apparently that didn't work for my sister. The kids there were also doing cocaine instead of just pot since they could afford more.
I just don't think you can disparage every person that says that public school isn't the best fit for their kid. It doesn't mean that they are all just snobs.
These are just some of the reasons
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 7:35:46 GMT -5
I just don't think you can disparage every person that says that public school isn't the best fit for their kid. It doesn't mean that they are all just snobs.
I didn't say they were snobs. And, my sis choose a private school for her kids. But, in my experience, people with kids in private schools tend to make a lot of disparaging remarks about public schools. Unfortunately it tends to deteriorate into something akin to the SAHM vs. WAHM battles. LOL.
But, that is neither here nor there. And, you are correct, i do live in a small town in an area we enjoy.
One point though is to think about your sense of "community". For us, i would have to transport the kids to another town. And, i did explore that. But, they would lose their sense of community. Of having kids nearby they went to school with. Of the local sports team and all that. So, that is an issue that i also considered as well. Of course, that is not so important in a larger city or where the schools are close by.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 8:07:15 GMT -5
One point though is to think about your sense of "community".
Oddly enough, your reason for choosing public, is one of the main reasons I'm leaning towards private. I like the family atmosphere of the small charter school. It's almost like a church community where everyone knows everyone, and even though I don't go to church myself much, a lot of the kids from our parish attend the private school as well as a good chunk of the kids in DS's Scout Troop which is sponsored by our parish. We live out in the country with no kids around, so we're traveling the same distance either way (the campuses are about a half mile apart)
We're in a pretty small town (less than 30K, so it's not like a big inner city school), but I'll admit, the size thing is freaking me out a little after being in a school of around 300 the past 8 years now (including preschool). The private school has around 400 students in the 6 grades, the public has over 1300 in the high school alone. But, as was brought up earlier, maybe DS isn't as bothered by that as I am. Even if he isn't though, I think I need to be comfortable with the school too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 8:16:49 GMT -5
Good points.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 8:18:45 GMT -5
Most experts agree that with sibling rivalry you should just let them work it out themselves, as long as it doesn't turn abusive. They say it is the best way to learn social skills. Shame on Montessori for interfering. Isn't the whole mission is to let kids learn things on their own? It is, but they are so big on RESPECT. I got a behavioral report yesterday because my son belched in another kids ear. Ok, gross, but he's 10 and the other kid didn't even care. But, it was noticed by a teacher and he was made to apologize and removed from the lunchroom. Then they went through the trouble of writing up a report (in triplicate, one for me, one for the principal and one for the "file") The way they handle social situations like this is my only gripe with the school. Other parents also complain about it...especially parents of boys!
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