zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 13, 2012 9:03:05 GMT -5
Ooh, that is ridiculous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 9:24:12 GMT -5
I know. Sometimes it's all I can do to keep from writing "Are you fucking kidding me?" next to where I have to sign on the report before returning it.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Oct 13, 2012 9:26:02 GMT -5
If you are worried about him being bullied, the public school might be the better choice. I went to a private elementary school for 4 years and then to a public school for the rest and for high school. The bullying was far worse at the private school than at any of the public schools I went to.
One thing you hav to consider is that small size can be good and bad. It can be good in that your child will get extra attention, everyone knows each other, etc. The bad part is when he doesn't fit in or isn't friends with the few kids that are there. Then he is an outcast (and the chances of being bullied increased). At the private school I experienced, this was especially prevalant with the kids whose parents had no/lesser money. We all wore the same uniform so in theory no one should have known who was rich and who was poor but the kids always knew. At the larger public school, the chances of him finding some friends increases because the pool of available friends increases.
The size of public high school you are describing is around what mine was. We had many cliques but not really any bullying. Each group seemed to leave the others alone (We were all friendly to each other but didn't need to be "friends" or bully.. just accept each other). Our school was extremely diverse both racially and socio-economically. We knew our elem school classmates coming into high school but not the kids from the other elem schools (Elem is K-8 where I grew up). It worked out well and people were able to group together with like minded folks. Even if you didn't fit in with your elem school classmates, they were usually friendly enough to you and then you could find another group of folks (jocks, drama kids, band kids, science, etc) to hang with.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 13, 2012 9:46:35 GMT -5
I think that's just Montessori stuff because DS went to a teachers daycare/preschool when I was teaching and I got notes home about the strangest things. I had to have a parent-principal conference when he was 4 because he and another little boy were in the playhouse giggling about the word BUTT. Now they didn't have their pants down or were molesting anyone else or even each other but just giggling over the word. No one but the aide heard them. I kept waiting for the principal to get to the point but that was e point. I asked her if she knew any psychology at all because potty words were hysterically funny to little boys and that was perfectly normal. To me the correct response would be to re-direct their playing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 9:59:13 GMT -5
Zib, I'm guessing they don't have The Day My Butt Went Psycho in their library?
My first grade grandson asked me to buy that for him. Reading is reading at that age so why not? He can read War and Peace next semester.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 10:21:04 GMT -5
I had to have a parent-principal conference when he was 4 because he and another little boy were in the playhouse giggling about the word BUTT
Yes, we had conferences over stuff like that too and I always just sat there dumbfounded. I couldn't understand why we were being called in for what seemed to me to be perfectly normal and harmless behavior. But they were so serious and were the "experts" on children supposedly, so there was a while during a particularly bad year when I was actually starting to freak out that my kid was messed up somehow.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 13, 2012 11:04:52 GMT -5
I had to have a parent-principal conference when he was 4 because he and another little boy were in the playhouse giggling about the word BUTTYes, we had conferences over stuff like that too and I always just sat there dumbfounded. I couldn't understand why we were being called in for what seemed to me to be perfectly normal and harmless behavior. But they were so serious and were the "experts" on children supposedly, so there was a while during a particularly bad year when I was actually starting to freak out that my kid was messed up somehow. I had those experiences in public school. Seriously. Okay, it was in a substantially separate class for bright, capable, kids with language learning disabilities (ex., dyslexia), but still, come on, at the base they are all still little kids. In fact, that crap got ODS rejected from a private school for dyslexia. As far as private school parents putting down public schools, I think you have to have a certain level of dissatisfaction with public schools to make the move in the first place, so the poor opinions of public schools by the private school parents are a no-brainer. But, the fact remains that public school budgets have been decimated, teachers are being subjected -- rightly or wrongly -- to ever-increasing scrutiny (the criteria of which is vague at best), and public schools are being asked to be all things to all children under those circumstances. It can be, although not so in every case, a no-win situation for many school districts. How can you wrap LIMITED money, time, personnel, curriculum, teaching methods around such a varied and often-times needy population? If you're in a reasonably small, largely homogenous school district, you might not encounter these issues. If you're in a larger, mixed class/race/income district, AND if you are paying attention, these issues WILL make you think about moving your kids into private schools (that have the option to be as selective and picky as they want to be). JMHO. Your mileage WILL vary.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 13, 2012 11:14:12 GMT -5
One more point regarding "community": YDS travelled almost 1.5 hours EACH way by car, commuter train, subway, and on foot at the age of 12 and 13 to attend his Catholic school. Truthfully, we had also just moved to another town so he didn't know anyone here anyway, but compared to where we used to live, we never felt like we belonged to a warm, welcoming community as much as we felt at that distant school. And, frankly, we're really social, open, interesting folks to begin with so it's not like we are "THAT" family. Like I said, people who opt out of the given options (i.e., public school) are intentionally seeking something else (not necessarily "better"; could just be a different philosophy, approach, vibe, etc.). We happened to find it all in a Catholic (Jesuit) school.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 11:34:12 GMT -5
- if money it no issue, it boils down to a personal preference.
- if money is an issue, still a personal preference but comes with what are you willing to sacrifice to send DS to that school.
My wife and I both went to private school from first grade to 12th; catholic schools run by nuns and priests/brothers.
I want to send my kids to public because I felt the environment was too sheltered, I want my kids to know there is more out here and our family may not be the norm. My wife on the other loved going to private school and want to send our kids too.
Since we have no kids, it is just a discussion/debate for now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 13:40:07 GMT -5
I think school is about balance. And, there are some private schools who really pile on homework. I would rather my kid have time to develop other areas of his/her life as well such as sports, music, social and just plain do nothing time to be a kid. I really don't feel like i want a school that is going to so grueling as some i have seen. Yes, i want to prepare my kids for life. but there are many approaches to do so.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Oct 13, 2012 13:45:46 GMT -5
Just wanted to add on the sheltered thing... it can be bad to have too much "shelter". I went to a Catholic college and the students we had were mostly people who had gone to Catholic school K-12 and some people who went to public school.
Our first year of college, the problems and people going were wild were for the most part the kids who went to Catholic high school. While the kids who went to den of inequity public schools weren't interested too much in sleeping around and drinking all week, more of the Catholic school kids were. I on't think it was because they were sheltered but it seemed like they didn't get out their teenage rebellion during high school.
It seems like their are some benefits to being rebellious while still under mom and dad's roof (and still a minor!) than waiting until you are in college and there isn't anyone to help you deal with the mess...
YMMV
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 13, 2012 14:03:51 GMT -5
I wouldn't put my kid in a private school that had tons of homework. The reason there is tons of homework in a public school is because the bloody teacher doesn't have time to teach in class due to behavior and state testing. Remove that carp and you go back to the schools I grew up in. You behaved, learned the lesson, did a few, showed the teacher, she said yea or nay and you finished up, maybe at school or maybe at home. I learned plenty in high school and I didn't have a ton of projects and hours of homework.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 14:29:15 GMT -5
Well, around here it is the opposite. A lot more homework at the private schools here vs. public.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 13, 2012 16:06:56 GMT -5
Well, academic challenge doesn't necessarily mean homework as busy work.
It can also mean allowing kids to self-teach English or foreign language vocabulary at home so that the class period can be spent on a class discussion of a tough piece of literature or a story in a foreign language. Or, if a child can master a particular physics solution at home, the teacher can dedicate the class period to parsing out nuances or demonstrating other applications.
Academic challenge is best when it is used to stretch a child's knowledge beyond the mandatory curriculum. Many public schools are able to do this, but it is getting more difficult for them to do so given the increasing demands upon public schools. Private schools are free of the legislative constraints placed on public schools, so they have the ability to approach things in a more demanding way. It's just the nature of the beast.
But, I agree that assigning 100 math problems on the same solution approach when 20 will do is hardly effective.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 13, 2012 17:23:51 GMT -5
There was actually a private school that advertised they gave no homework, that after school time was for family and recreation. Their applications were overflowing. I'd have put my kids in there if I could have afforded it.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 13, 2012 18:00:36 GMT -5
There was actually a private school that advertised they gave no homework, that after school time was for family and recreation. Their applications were overflowing. I'd have put my kids in there if I could have afforded it. For which grades? I'm thinking that by middle or high school (my kids' ages) homework is a necessary evil to help the kids prepare for the demands of college. But, elementary kids could absolutely get by without homework. JMHO. YMMV.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 18:33:22 GMT -5
I'm late and haven't read everything, but if you are not doing private, I would carefully consider starting public in middle school years... Those can be some if the worst in terms of peer group, bullying, etc.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Oct 13, 2012 18:55:22 GMT -5
I would keep him the Charter until grade 8 and then have him go fresh into High school. At the high school level, there are more kids and they are meeting new kids (from the middle schools they didn't go to) so he won't stand out as much (He won't be recognized as the "new kid" at the middle school where the kids all know each other... at the high school they will just assume he went to one of the other middle schools). He can also pick more electives at the high school level so he will get to meet more kids that share his interests (music, metal shop, drama, language, etc) his first year. This should help him to make friends (They will have something in common to talk about) right off the bat. The high schools usually are good about advertising and recruiting freshmen to join clubs/activities so he will get like minded kids there as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 18:57:03 GMT -5
There was actually a private school that advertised they gave no homework, that after school time was for family and recreation. Their applications were overflowing. I'd have put my kids in there if I could have afforded it. The Montessori he's at now doesn't do homework or grades which is part of the reason I decided to move him after 6th rather than wait until high school. I really think he's going to need a year or two to get into the swing of a traditional classroom and if his grades are going to suffer because of it, I'd rather it was in 7th and 8th.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 19:00:01 GMT -5
I don't think you necessarily need to practice homework? I've found that as kids mature, they are better equipped/ motivated for that type of stuff, especially when it has a purpose.
Are the 7 and 8 grades in a middle or high school ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 19:01:40 GMT -5
at the high school they will just assume he went to one of the other middle schools).
Outside of the charter, we only have one middle school here. There are several grade schools, but they all come together into one 5th-8th grade school.
I agree, it's a natural break point though. If I choose the public route, I might stick with the charter through 8th.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 19:04:57 GMT -5
Are the 7 and 8 grades in a middle or high school ?
At the public they're in middle school (5th-8th), which is a different school than the high school (other end of town), the private 7th and 8th is considered Jr. High and they are on the same campus as the high school, but are designated mostly to one building.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 14, 2012 17:28:21 GMT -5
I know it offered high school, not sure about middle.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 17:50:20 GMT -5
I personally don't like the 5-8 th grade school model. I'd choose private till 9th, but that's me Not sure we've been very helpful here...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 18:03:56 GMT -5
My two cents worth......both my wife and I went to private Catholic grade schools, high schools and colleges in a large metropolitan area. We both agree that we received the best possible education available at the time. Granted this was 40 years ago when teaching was done by nuns, brothers and priests. And the cost was not exorbitant. I moved the family when my son was five (15-20 years later) so he could enjoy the same educational background. Unfortunately I was job transferred to a much less populated area when he was twelve. The closest Catholic school was over an hour away so we bought a house in a semi-rural area with a public school system with a good reputation. On the surface, however good it was it did not compare from an "opportunity" perspective; very few honors courses, no AP course, only rudimentary language courses, etc., etc. All that being said; he ended up becoming a medical doctor. So I guess my bottom line answer to your question is that each case is different and the two most important factors for success are the child and the parents. What will work best for the three of you?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2012 8:37:04 GMT -5
Not sure we've been very helpful here... Actually, you've all given me things to think about. I'm glad I started looking into this really early. The frugal part of me is having a hard time spending money on something I can get for free (or, more accurately, what I've already paid for via taxes), but on the other side, if it would benefit my kids I have no problem paying the tuition either. It's not like it's a 20K a year school...I almost wish it was, that would make the decision easy! LOL
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Oct 15, 2012 8:41:29 GMT -5
Just to add an point of view:
DS18 is also way way smart. I actually moved to the county we are in in part because he is such an outlier that I felt he needed a school system that could address him, not try to push him into a larger range of bright kids. And he had social issues at different years, yes, but he did find his 'tribes' within the public school system. The public system was supportive of him doing academically what he wanted and was capable of doing. So he went to the competitive magent programs, got 800/800 SATs and a full ride to the competitive state university on merit, is an accomplished writer and has tight friendships with a breadth of others.
DSS went to the Catholic school here through 8th grade. Both he and DH thought it was callous to individual differences, and academically rigorous more in the traditional enriched mode for everyone - regardless of what they needed. DSS floundered academically in public HS but shone socially and athletically. He chose to not go the Catholic road because he saw more openness at the public school.
If your DS is an outlier, and it sounds like he is, perhaps staying the course until HS would be the best choice. Socially junior high can destroy kids who stray from the middle while giving no due rewards for other talents. High school is better - kids are older and have seen more.
JME
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Oct 15, 2012 16:52:05 GMT -5
Just wanted to add this thought - if he has social issues, a larger group (like the public school) might be easier for him to find a group of friends. It's easier to find a few people to click with when you have 120 kids in your class than if you have 50.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2012 10:42:05 GMT -5
Most experts agree that with sibling rivalry you should just let them work it out themselves, as long as it doesn't turn abusive. They say it is the best way to learn social skills. Shame on Montessori for interfering. Isn't the whole mission is to let kids learn things on their own? It is, but they are so big on RESPECT. I got a behavioral report yesterday because my son belched in another kids ear. Ok, gross, but he's 10 and the other kid didn't even care. But, it was noticed by a teacher and he was made to apologize and removed from the lunchroom. Then they went through the trouble of writing up a report (in triplicate, one for me, one for the principal and one for the "file") The way they handle social situations like this is my only gripe with the school. Other parents also complain about it...especially parents of boys! <sigh> I just got an email from the teacher that that particular behavioral report was his final strike and DS isn't going to be allowed to go on the class field trip tomorrow that he's been looking forward to for a month. He has to sit in the office and write a book report the entire day instead.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2012 11:05:46 GMT -5
Parent teacher conferences are next Monday and his Dad and I agreed that we're going to bring this up. It really seems like they're being hard on him and nitpicking way too much. However, I have no idea what the other two strikes were for as those reports were never sent to me. The burping one came in the mail and they've always mailed them in the past.
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